I hesitate to form much of an opinion of a player until we've played a few games vs a P6 team, including against a top team in the conference (Cal has now played against 4 P6 teams)

so I watched a recording of the AZ game and am now okay to say that Askew and Lars are good Pac 12 players.

I know they won't always have games like today, and teams that have thrown 2 or 3 players at Lars has impacted him, but he was playing against the top front line in the Pac12 and did well, including 2-4 from 16 feet

Agree. Lars has a better touch inside than most of our big men have had historically, and Askew has skills.

Also, think of the more consistent damage they could both do with the supporting casts some of the other teams have. Opposing teams couldn't focus on them defensively like they do now.

I agree both are P12 rotational players, but probably don't start on other teams.

Askew has all the individual skills, but his game doesn't seem to make his teammates better. However, that's a pretty rare talent and I don't think the knock is on him, but more on the offensive scheme and how the staff utilizes him.

As for Lars, I think he had one his best games against one of the best front lines in the country. He played within himself, maximized his positives and minimized his deficiencies. Actually executed the pick and roll OK. When AZ run with their bigs, he was left in the dust, but that has never been his game. He still could do better at rebounding position and less random tipping - but he is doing well IMHO.

Muehlbach made the observation that Lars is doing things this season at the P12 level that he couldn't do last year. I thought that was very accurate and appreciate the work and improvement Lars has made.

Askew is not a natural passer. He needs coaching intervention, Where is the coaching?

Writers here continuously deride the abilities and talents of the Bear players. Today Askew and Lars are P5 players, last week Lars couldn't play on a high school team. Today Askew has no one he can pass the ball. The reality is that Cal has sufficient talent to be in the top half of the league or better, WITH PROPER COACHING AND AN APPRPRIATE SYSTEM. Please stop insulting the players. Note, Robeson goes for a big dunk over the opposing center and gets blocked. That he tries shows he has the talent: and, that he tires, shows he doesn't have an appropriate system.

BearlyCareAnymore said:

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eastcoastcal said:

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bearchamp said:

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Writers here continuously deride the abilities and talents of the Bear players. Today Askew and Lars are P5 players, last week Lars couldn't play on a high school team. Today Askew has no one he can pass the ball. The reality is that Cal has sufficient talent to be in the top half of the league or better, WITH PROPER COACHING AND AN APPRPRIATE SYSTEM. Please stop insulting the players. Note, Robeson goes for a big dunk over the opposing center and gets blocked. That he tries shows he has the talent: and, that he tires, shows he doesn't have an appropriate system.

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I love our players but this is patently untrue. Our roster talent is not power-conference level. Most of the guys had no major offers. I do absolutely believe that Fox's coaching holds us back, and we should be better than where we're at. But to say that our talent places us in the top half of the Pac is not correct. We are a bottom 3 (possibly dead last) major conference team by talent. Both the coaching and the recruiting has to improve tremendously with the next coach.

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I was a lone voice years ago saying "Hey if this Tedford guy can coach, we can do well, because we do have talent on this team" Holmoe was a 7.5 out of ten at recruiting, a 1 out of 10 at developing, and a 0 at x's and o's. Cal's recruiting classes were rated reasonably good.

Fox is a 4 at development and x's and o's. He's not good, but If someone recruited a 24 win type roster, he'd win 20 with it. He is a 1 out of 10 at recruiting. I'm sorry, our recruiting rankings are in the dumper. Nothing on the court has demonstrated that those were wrong. Nothing on the players - they took the best offer they could get and they try as hard as they can. But Monty isn't going to walk in and take the team to a top half finish. That is dreamland. Although, I'm sure he'd win some actual games. (I'd bet maybe 6 in conference).

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Agreed. The longer Fox is the coach, the deeper the hole we will be in.

bearchamp said:

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The reality is that Cal has sufficient talent to be in the top half of the league or better

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Your perception of reality sure looks a lot different from everyone elses.

eastcoastcal said:

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bearchamp said:

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Writers here continuously deride the abilities and talents of the Bear players. Today Askew and Lars are P5 players, last week Lars couldn't play on a high school team. Today Askew has no one he can pass the ball. The reality is that Cal has sufficient talent to be in the top half of the league or better, WITH PROPER COACHING AND AN APPRPRIATE SYSTEM. Please stop insulting the players. Note, Robeson goes for a big dunk over the opposing center and gets blocked. That he tries shows he has the talent: and, that he tires, shows he doesn't have an appropriate system.

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I love our players but this is patently untrue. Our roster talent is not power-conference level. Most of the guys had no major offers. I do absolutely believe that Fox's coaching holds us back, and we should be better than where we're at. But to say that our talent places us in the top half of the Pac is not correct. We are a bottom 3 (possibly dead last) major conference team by talent. Both the coaching and the recruiting has to improve tremendously with the next coach.

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Agree. The roster is very low on natural shooting ability. Also, innate hoops IQ. This is not to denigrate the individual players, who are what they are and are trying their best.

However, a better coach would have helped guys like Joel Brown and Kuany Kuany improve over the 3 1/2 years they've been here. That part makes me sad for them.

Big C said:

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eastcoastcal said:

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bearchamp said:

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Writers here continuously deride the abilities and talents of the Bear players. Today Askew and Lars are P5 players, last week Lars couldn't play on a high school team. Today Askew has no one he can pass the ball. The reality is that Cal has sufficient talent to be in the top half of the league or better, WITH PROPER COACHING AND AN APPRPRIATE SYSTEM. Please stop insulting the players. Note, Robeson goes for a big dunk over the opposing center and gets blocked. That he tries shows he has the talent: and, that he tires, shows he doesn't have an appropriate system.

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I love our players but this is patently untrue. Our roster talent is not power-conference level. Most of the guys had no major offers. I do absolutely believe that Fox's coaching holds us back, and we should be better than where we're at. But to say that our talent places us in the top half of the Pac is not correct. We are a bottom 3 (possibly dead last) major conference team by talent. Both the coaching and the recruiting has to improve tremendously with the next coach.

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Agree. The roster is very low on natural shooting ability. Also, innate hoops IQ. This is not to denigrate the individual players, who are what they are and are trying their best.

However, a better coach would have helped guys like Joel Brown and Kuany Kuany improve over the 3 1/2 years they've been here. That part makes me sad for them.

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Lars has noticeably improved/developed while at Cal. Andre improved his build/focus - but the skills were already there, from what I saw. Other than those two, I can't think of any player that showed development under Fox. From that observation, I take it that what Andre and Lars demonstrated is more about them as individuals and NOT about the staff's development skills.

So we have GREAT (but below average talent) that doesn't develop and their only cohesive improvement comes NOT from the scheme or coaching, but at the end of the year (which naturally happens when a team plays more - this is called the 'Jones last 3 game' effect).

Install the Princeton offense, or the Bellarmine system and the results will be much different. Neither of those systems are dependent on dominant individual players. Modern basketball on ball screens on high pick, is slightly modifies sixth-grade basketball: keep the ball in the hands of your best player all time. Not a "team" approach. (See, Askew stats v team at Cal).