RedlessWardrobe said:

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There's no reason that JOJ and Rytis can't be on the floor simultaneously more often than what we've seen.

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I imagine it's because Stojakovic gets a ton of minutes (can't pull him) and plays like a 3, Rytis and JOJ are like 3/4s. There's just not enough ball handling in that lineup. If Stojakovic had even just some of Tyson's playmaking ability I'm sure we'd be seeing the bigger lineups because the wings are the strength of the roster.

RedlessWardrobe said:

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BeachedBear said:

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The last couple of games have shown me a few things..

1. Winning actually makes a team play better (duh)
2. The data points on Blacksher are becoming more evident
3. Andrej might be a little TOO ball dominant. Want him back, but his absence in a win may have team benefit
4. This 'team' can compete against weaker competition, but is generally overmatched in all aspects by a top 20 team.

Assuming Andrej returns, I would like to see our first 5 (starters or most minutes):

Wilkinson
Stojakovich
Ola Joseph
Petraitis
Sissoko

The next 5 (in probable order of minutes):

Campbell - good energy and does some good things but also makes alot of mistakes (misses layups)
Dort - similar to Campbell in both good and bad (seems to be out of position alot), but good sub for MS.
Tucker - seems steady, but perhaps undersized (and under athletic) for ACC competition.
Blacksher - seems to have lost his mojo. Perhaps its injuries or confidence, but playing inconsistently
Mahoney - seems worth some investment minutes for the future.

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Agree except I think your short changing DJ. His presence on the court really makes us stronger, especially on the defensive end. And I'm not sure if "missing layups" qualifies as a mistake.

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Who in the first 5 would you swap for Campbell? Maybe go smaller with Petraitis coming off the bench.

And yes - missing layups is a mistake at this level 8^)

I probably need to give Campbell a better look. I used the term 'mistake'. Maybe I mean inconsistency. He looks good 90% of the time, but then I see something (on both ends of the floor) that doesn't match with the other 90%.

concernedparent said:

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RedlessWardrobe said:

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There's no reason that JOJ and Rytis can't be on the floor simultaneously more often than what we've seen.

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I imagine it's because Stojakovic gets a ton of minutes (can't pull him) and plays like a 3, Rytis and JOJ are like 3/4s. There's just not enough ball handling in that lineup. If Stojakovic had even just some of Tyson's playmaking ability I'm sure we'd be seeing the bigger lineups because the wings are the strength of the roster.

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You might be right to a certain extent. But honestly, if they're all in are we really hurting if it's JW or DJ at the point? There's absolutely nothing we've seen to indicate that Wilkinson or Campbell are any less capable of playing point than Blacksher is. And it makes this team better on the defensive end.

BeachedBear said:

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RedlessWardrobe said:

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BeachedBear said:

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The last couple of games have shown me a few things..

1. Winning actually makes a team play better (duh)
2. The data points on Blacksher are becoming more evident
3. Andrej might be a little TOO ball dominant. Want him back, but his absence in a win may have team benefit
4. This 'team' can compete against weaker competition, but is generally overmatched in all aspects by a top 20 team.

Assuming Andrej returns, I would like to see our first 5 (starters or most minutes):

Wilkinson
Stojakovich
Ola Joseph
Petraitis
Sissoko

The next 5 (in probable order of minutes):

Campbell - good energy and does some good things but also makes alot of mistakes (misses layups)
Dort - similar to Campbell in both good and bad (seems to be out of position alot), but good sub for MS.
Tucker - seems steady, but perhaps undersized (and under athletic) for ACC competition.
Blacksher - seems to have lost his mojo. Perhaps its injuries or confidence, but playing inconsistently
Mahoney - seems worth some investment minutes for the future.

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Agree except I think your short changing DJ. His presence on the court really makes us stronger, especially on the defensive end. And I'm not sure if "missing layups" qualifies as a mistake.

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Who in the first 5 would you swap for Campbell? Maybe go smaller with Petraitis coming off the bench.

And yes - missing layups is a mistake at this level 8^)

I probably need to give Campbell a better look. I used the term 'mistake'. Maybe I mean inconsistency. He looks good 90% of the time, but then I see something (on both ends of the floor) that doesn't match with the other 90%.

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I get what you're saying. But 90% ain't bad compared to what Blacksher is doing. I actually like your suggestion, only five can start. But I still think we benefit with DJ getting significant minutes.

concernedparent said:

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RedlessWardrobe said:

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concernedparent said:

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RedlessWardrobe said:

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There's no reason that JOJ and Rytis can't be on the floor simultaneously more often than what we've seen.

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I imagine it's because Stojakovic gets a ton of minutes (can't pull him) and plays like a 3, Rytis and JOJ are like 3/4s. There's just not enough ball handling in that lineup. If Stojakovic had even just some of Tyson's playmaking ability I'm sure we'd be seeing the bigger lineups because the wings are the strength of the roster.

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You might be right to a certain extent. But honestly, if they're all in are we really hurting if it's JW or DJ at the point? There's absolutely nothing we've seen to indicate that Wilkinson or Campbell are any less capable of playing point than Blacksher is. And it makes this team better on the defensive end.

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We never really play Blacksher with 3 wings either. The issue is less whose playing point in that lineup and more that there isn't a reliable secondary ballhandler/playmaker. I wanted to see more 3 wing lineups earlier on in the season but after understanding the roster better, I think I see what Madsen saw.

We're all in agreement that Blacksher needs to have his minutes reduced. He's been brutal on both ends the past 10+ games.

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I can see reducing Blacksher's minutes some, but I do think he helps the team sometimes. He has had some good games for us, even recently. Wasn't he our leading scorer in last week's win over NC State?

Big C said:

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concernedparent said:

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RedlessWardrobe said:

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concernedparent said:

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RedlessWardrobe said:

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There's no reason that JOJ and Rytis can't be on the floor simultaneously more often than what we've seen.

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I imagine it's because Stojakovic gets a ton of minutes (can't pull him) and plays like a 3, Rytis and JOJ are like 3/4s. There's just not enough ball handling in that lineup. If Stojakovic had even just some of Tyson's playmaking ability I'm sure we'd be seeing the bigger lineups because the wings are the strength of the roster.

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You might be right to a certain extent. But honestly, if they're all in are we really hurting if it's JW or DJ at the point? There's absolutely nothing we've seen to indicate that Wilkinson or Campbell are any less capable of playing point than Blacksher is. And it makes this team better on the defensive end.

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We never really play Blacksher with 3 wings either. The issue is less whose playing point in that lineup and more that there isn't a reliable secondary ballhandler/playmaker. I wanted to see more 3 wing lineups earlier on in the season but after understanding the roster better, I think I see what Madsen saw.

We're all in agreement that Blacksher needs to have his minutes reduced. He's been brutal on both ends the past 10+ games.

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I can see reducing Blacksher's minutes some, but I do think he helps the team sometimes. He has had some good games for us, even recently. Wasn't he our leading scorer in last week's win over NC State?

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He got the basket that put us ahead to stay with one minute left.

Big C said:

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concernedparent said:

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RedlessWardrobe said:

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concernedparent said:

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RedlessWardrobe said:

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There's no reason that JOJ and Rytis can't be on the floor simultaneously more often than what we've seen.

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I imagine it's because Stojakovic gets a ton of minutes (can't pull him) and plays like a 3, Rytis and JOJ are like 3/4s. There's just not enough ball handling in that lineup. If Stojakovic had even just some of Tyson's playmaking ability I'm sure we'd be seeing the bigger lineups because the wings are the strength of the roster.

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You might be right to a certain extent. But honestly, if they're all in are we really hurting if it's JW or DJ at the point? There's absolutely nothing we've seen to indicate that Wilkinson or Campbell are any less capable of playing point than Blacksher is. And it makes this team better on the defensive end.

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We never really play Blacksher with 3 wings either. The issue is less whose playing point in that lineup and more that there isn't a reliable secondary ballhandler/playmaker. I wanted to see more 3 wing lineups earlier on in the season but after understanding the roster better, I think I see what Madsen saw.

We're all in agreement that Blacksher needs to have his minutes reduced. He's been brutal on both ends the past 10+ games.

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I can see reducing Blacksher's minutes some, but I do think he helps the team sometimes. He has had some good games for us, even recently. Wasn't he our leading scorer in last week's win over NC State?

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yes he scored 14 pts.
As mentioned he scored the go-ahead basket at the end of the game and faked out their big man going to the rim.

Right, talking about single games kind of meaningless, his season stats so far:
GP 16
MIN 28.8
FG% 33.7
3P% 33.3
FT% 72.4
REB 2.1
AST 2.7
BLK 0
STL 1
PF 1.5
TO 2.1
PTS 10.2

For a point guard, 2.7 assists and 1 steal a game is "case closed." I won't even mention the shooting %, just a disappointing recruit in every respect.

I just wish he wouldn't dribble so much. He needs to be a better distributor.

HoopDream isn't going to like this, but in the spirit of taking a cold eye to Blacksher's stats, here are a few of Mady Sissoko's with national ranking number among all players (via KenPom)
111 ranked California

EffectiveFG%: 68
Rank: 12
OR%: 12.5
Rank: 112
DR%: 20.5
Rank: 195
Blk%; 5.1
Rank: 189
FTRate: 73.3
Rank: 18

Effective field goal percentage (eFG%): Same as regular field goal percentage, except that made three-pointers are appropriately given 50% more credit.

Offensive rebounding percentage (OR%): This is the percentage of possible offensive rebounds a player gets:

PlayerOR / [%Min * (Team OR + Opp. DR)]
The denominator is scaled based on the percentage of a team's minutes played by the player. Anything over 10% is good.
Defensive rebounding percentage (DR%): This is the percentage of possible defensive rebounds a player gets:

PlayerDR / [%Min * (Team DR + Opp. OR)]
Anything over 20% is good.

FT Rate: Free throw rate is calculated by 100*FTA/FGA. This measures a player's ability to get the line using the number of free throws shot per 100 field goal attempts.

Block Percentage (%Blocks): This is the percentage of opponents' two-point shots that are blocked by the player while he is on the court. It is computed by Blocks/(%Min * Opponents' two-point attempts). Anything greater than 8% is very good.

What's the point of all the mumbo jumbo? Just to evaluate a player objectively, that's all, instead of his last exciting hustle play. The numbers - and his relative position to other players - tells you Mady is good at the dunks and pickups (high EFG), good at getting to the line, but not as good at what you think he's good at, rebounding and blocks. Though KenPom cites a "good" threshold for rebounding that Mady seems to pass, being 100th best doesn't say "good" to me.
As I've said before, he's OK, and you can appreciate his effort and intangibles, but he does not stand out from the long history of mediocre Cal centers. Neither does Dort.

Harky4 said:

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Viewing Balcksher courtside all season long and on the road against Vandy, I venture to guess that he is not 100% with a bum leg that is significantly wrapped. That injury could cause has bad shooting, inability to drive to the hoop with success and his lack of quickness that he displayed on film while at UTSA. I applaud his gutting out PT during this season to earn his NIL stipend, but Mark should limit his PT to being an energizer off the bench to spell Jeremiah.

And Jeremiah is critical to our present and future success and needs to be shown more love and respect by starting and trusting him, even when Andrej comes back. Andrej, DJ and Jeremiah are more than sufficient ball handlers to take care of bring the ball up court and are decent defenders on the perimeter.

If Rytris was not so valuable as our hoops' Swiss Army Knife-like player, I would start JOJ. But, JOJ seems comfortable coming off the bench and heats up fast (JOJ may be our most reliable 3 point weapon).

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Blacksher was at Grand Canyon and played in the Big Dance, taking down St. Mary's in the first round. Pretty special moment. UTSA - you're thinking of Christian Tucker. Man I didn't realize his name is Chris Tucker.

barsad said:

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What's the point of all the mumbo jumbo? Just to evaluate a player objectively, that's all, instead of his last exciting hustle play. The numbers - and his relative position to other players - tells you Mady is good at the dunks and pickups (high EFG), good at getting to the line, but not as good at what you think he's good at, rebounding and blocks. Though KenPom cites a "good" threshold for rebounding that Mady seems to pass, being 100th best doesn't say "good" to me.
As I've said before, he's OK, and you can appreciate his effort and intangibles, but he does not stand out from the long history of mediocre Cal centers. Neither does Dort.

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100-200th best out of every D1 player (even if we're only comparing to other post players) on a rate stat and huge minute sample is pretty decent.

He has the highest DWS, and second highest WS, WS%, dRTG, BPM, and PER on the team despite supposedly only being a role player. He's doing all the unglamorous but important dirty work for the team. We should applaud that, even if he isn't an all-conference level star (and nobody is saying he is).

Had to look up that alphabet soup, not sure most (any?) people here really knows what a win-share represents, let alone the formula that calculates it. But I get your point, he's a real contributor, I don't question that. Also he was never seen as just a role player, he's the big man we hoped could carry us in the paint against quality ACC teams.
I just think if we ever want to make the tournament again we will have to do better than 100-200th best on the key positions.

barsad said:

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Why can't we just say it, Blacksher should be benched in favor of JOJ, and we'll have to take our chances with JW or Campbell as ball handlers.
On a night when everyone else was contributing with double digits (last night), Blacksher was 1-11 FG, 0-4 from 3, 3 points total in 33 minutes. The guy has lost his mojo, you can see it every time he chucks up a 3 or drives, he doesn't believe it's going in (nor do I).
Can someone explain Madsen's thinking on him?

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He likesBlacksher. My guess is he promised him he would start.

barsad said:

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What's the point of all the mumbo jumbo? Just to evaluate a player objectively, that's all, instead of his last exciting hustle play. The numbers - and his relative position to other players - tells you Mady is good at the dunks and pickups (high EFG), good at getting to the line, but not as good at what you think he's good at, rebounding and blocks. Though KenPom cites a "good" threshold for rebounding that Mady seems to pass, being 100th best doesn't say "good" to me.
As I've said before, he's OK, and you can appreciate his effort and intangibles, but he does not stand out from the long history of mediocre Cal centers. Neither does Dort.

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There were lots of times earlier in the season when I was pretty "meh" about Sissoko, but he seems to have really come on in the last several games. Thus, his season numbers might underrepresent his current level of play, IMO.

Last year we peaked in late January / early February, then regressed. I hope we do not slip back like that this season.

Big C said:

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barsad said:

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What's the point of all the mumbo jumbo? Just to evaluate a player objectively, that's all, instead of his last exciting hustle play. The numbers - and his relative position to other players - tells you Mady is good at the dunks and pickups (high EFG), good at getting to the line, but not as good at what you think he's good at, rebounding and blocks. Though KenPom cites a "good" threshold for rebounding that Mady seems to pass, being 100th best doesn't say "good" to me.
As I've said before, he's OK, and you can appreciate his effort and intangibles, but he does not stand out from the long history of mediocre Cal centers. Neither does Dort.

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There were lots of times earlier in the season when I was pretty "meh" about Sissoko, but he seems to have really come on in the last several games. Thus, his season numbers might underrepresent his current level of play, IMO.

Last year we peaked in late January / early February, then regressed. I hope we do not slip back like that this season.

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Is the NIT within possibilities?

If that's really the case - that Madsen is making lineup decisions based on who he personally likes and what promises he made in the offseason - then the Madsen haters are right about him. My guess is that he doesn't trust JW or DJ to run the offense and still thinks Blacksher (against all odds) will get his mojo back. There might also be a stubborn component to this… something like, "I'm the coach here, I'm not going to change my plan just because the @sshats at Bear Insider want me to!"

barsad said:

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If that's really the case - that Madsen is making lineup decisions based on who he personally likes and what promises he made in the offseason - then the Madsen haters are right about him. My guess is that he doesn't trust JW or DJ to run the offense and still thinks Blacksher (against all odds) will get his mojo back. There might also be a stubborn component to this… something like, "I'm the coach here, I'm not going to change my plan just because the @sshats at Bear Insider want me to!"

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To your point I have to say, if Madsen doesn't trust JW to run the offense by now then it's never gonna happen. I would think by now that Madsen (who's coached a few years), and Blacksher (a fifth or sixth? year senior), can agree that at the very least the best thing for this team's success is to reduce Blacksher's minutes.

barsad said:

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Had to look up that alphabet soup, not sure most (any?) people here really knows what a win-share represents, let alone the formula that calculates it. But I get your point, he's a real contributor, I don't question that. Also he was never seen as just a role player, he's the big man we hoped could carry us in the paint against quality ACC teams.
I just think if we ever want to make the tournament again we will have to do better than 100-200th best on the key positions.

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Being in the 100s for RPG% doesn't mean he's the 100th best or most impactful rebounder. It's not the whole story because it's a stat that compares him against the people he shares the floor with, and the ranking can be misleading because of level of competition, roster construction, scheme, etc. What it signals to me is that he's a decent but not elite/game changing rebounder. (It could also signal to me that he plays next to a great rebounder, but that's not exactly the case here).

Is a 100th best RPG% post enough to make the tournament? Depends on whose around him. The roster construction is pretty similar to those recent deep run UCLA teams. 4 out with skilled guards and wings who can get iso buckets, and an athletic and strong rim running type big. Think Blacksher like Tyger Campbell, Andrej like Jaquez or Juzang, and Mady like Adem Bona (or the other guy they had before him whose name I forget). Bona's rebounding rate was way lower than Mady's but they still won a ton. Of course the big difference is that our team defense is sloppy and that our guard play (besides Wilkinson) is not even in the ballpark's parking lot of what Tyger, Jaylen Clark, etc. brought to the table.

We might just differ on what we consider a role player. He plays 25 MPG, is low usage, and is just asked to hustle, clean-up, and defend. A non-role player to me is a high(er) usage player who plays something closer to 30+ minutes.

I'll be in the Haas rooting for him tonight to play like a top 20 in all categories. He's definitely the kind of player, like Petraitis, who plays above his stats.
My main point in talking about the level of our current players is to think about 2025-26 NIL recruits. We need to think outside of the current "one guy who can score" plus four other OK guys. That will take an honest sit-down talk with Andrej, making him part of an offense that runs set plays. He is probably more comfortable with the current, "Give me the ball and I'l get creative."

Hopefully Omot comes back healthy next year to give us another decent offensive option. While MM is easily criticized here, we should keep in mind that he was planning on getting significant minutes from Omot coming into the season.

RedlessWardrobe said:

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Hopefully Omot comes back healthy next year to give us another decent offensive option. While MM is easily criticized here, we should keep in mind that he was planning on getting significant minutes from Omot coming into the season.

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After Vanderbilt game I thought he should be starting

MM said he expects BJ to be back 100% next season

Really thought this was going to be a Gus Larson thread. My bad.

bigtuba1 said:

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Really thought this was going to be a Gus Larson thread. My bad.

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Why does Gus get no time?