Is interest in college sports dwindling?

2,585 Views | 19 Replies | Last: 12 yr ago by wvitbear
Bearprof
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Not to be a donny downer, but it seems to me that interest in attending and participating in college sports is dropping. Here is some of the anecdotal evidence (not definitive, I know):

1) I posted an article last year from Chronicle of Higher Education, which documented that attendance at college basketball games is dropping nation-wide.

2) Friday mornings we've had a weekly pickup game since 1997. We used to get ~10-15 people from my department alone, downstairs, and there was a second regular group upstairs that had >10 regularly. Attendance in the upstairs group diminished over the years, followed by diminished attendance at our downstairs game. Eventually we fused and now play upstairs. Attendance at the upstairs game has been diminishing since, and we now often have a lot of difficulty getting even 10. Moreover, we are lucky to get one new grad student a year from my department to join, whereas we used to get 2-4.

3) An RSF regular told me the other day that he has noticed reduced RSF use generally, by students and perhaps by others. He said that his impression was confirmed by one of the RSF managers. The RSF manager opined that the reduction reflected online social media interactions replacing actual interactions (including sports) among the younger generation.

4) Despite having a more interesting team in the last few years, and better outcomes, I sense lowered enthusiasm for Cal basketball across the board. My brother in law, a former regular, makes far less effort to show up than he used to, and I cannot get my 15 year old to have much interest unless it is a really big game. (To be honest, he was not even much interested in the televised Cal-Furd game.)

5) There is less electricity in Haas for sure.

We spend a ton of time on this board discussing why Cal's basketball scene is failing to excite full attendance and excitement. The discussion initiated by KoreAmBear about SDSU is an example. They, of course, are not having the problem we are having. But I would argue that there will always be a range of interest in different sites, and SDSU may be to the right on that bell curve. But the bell curve as a whole may be shifting downwards. This coupled with various handicaps we have, some being proximity to pro sports, and others PERHAPS owing to inadequate efforts on the part of our athletic department, is resulting in our current predicament. Not sure there are easy remedies for this.
wvitbear
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When Jason Kidd was in high school, every visiting game he played in for 2 years was sold out. Was he a great player ? Sure but he was the St. Joe Pilots. Now all you talk about are the Soldiers. Does anyone out there in high school know the Soldiers?

We develop our attendance in high school going to games to support our friends. Not some mercenary. When high school players transfer to Las Vegas in their senior year in high school, does that create one fan from the local high schools.

The state high school tourney used to sell out. Now they can't fill the bottom bowl. BOD and St. Joes used to have to play at the Oakland Arena to accomodate all the fans who wanted to watch.

The only game anymore where you have to go a high school is football. Two years ago there was a game in the Valley that pulled in 20,000 fans. There is no AAU football. You watch in high school.

AAU ball may make the players and coaches happey but they don't bring in one fan. If you are a high school student you just stay home and play your computer.
UrsaMajor
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There was a time when the college game (basketball, football) was king, and the pros were struggling. The NBA and NFL have so taken over in terms of media coverage, etc., that those w/out specific rooting interests in the local colleges just don't follow them much anymore. The exception, of course, is the NCAA tournament, but its appeal is in large measure due to gambling (office pools and whatnot). I also think that many colleges (Cal is especially guilty here) have made the mistake of trying to make the college experience like a mini-NFL or mini-NBA. This is, IMO, a losing strategy, since if people want the pro experience, they go to professional games. We need to be selling what is unique about the college sports experience, and we're not doing so.
bluesaxe
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Bearprof;842257553 said:

Not to be a donny downer, but it seems to me that interest in attending and participating in college sports is dropping. Here is some of the anecdotal evidence (not definitive, I know):

1) I posted an article last year from Chronicle of Higher Education, which documented that attendance at college basketball games is dropping nation-wide.

2) Friday mornings we've had a weekly pickup game since 1997. We used to get ~10-15 people from my department alone, downstairs, and there was a second regular group upstairs that had >10 regularly. Attendance in the upstairs group diminished over the years, followed by diminished attendance at our downstairs game. Eventually we fused and now play upstairs. Attendance at the upstairs game has been diminishing since, and we now often have a lot of difficulty getting even 10. Moreover, we are lucky to get one new grad student a year from my department to join, whereas we used to get 2-4.

3) An RSF regular told me the other day that he has noticed reduced RSF use generally, by students and perhaps by others. He said that his impression was confirmed by one of the RSF managers. The RSF manager opined that the reduction reflected online social media interactions replacing actual interactions (including sports) among the younger generation.

4) Despite having a more interesting team in the last few years, and better outcomes, I sense lowered enthusiasm for Cal basketball across the board. My brother in law, a former regular, makes far less effort to show up than he used to, and I cannot get my 15 year old to have much interest unless it is a really big game. (To be honest, he was not even much interested in the televised Cal-Furd game.)

5) There is less electricity in Haas for sure.

We spend a ton of time on this board discussing why Cal's basketball scene is failing to excite full attendance and excitement. The discussion initiated by KoreAmBear about SDSU is an example. They, of course, are not having the problem we are having. But I would argue that there will always be a range of interest in different sites, and SDSU may be to the right on that bell curve. But the bell curve as a whole may be shifting downwards. This coupled with various handicaps we have, some being proximity to pro sports, and others PERHAPS owing to inadequate efforts on the part of our athletic department, is resulting in our current predicament. Not sure there are easy remedies for this.

I have a slightly different take on this, perhaps, or perhaps it dovetails with what you're saying.

In short, the Cal student body is a lot different than it used to be. Think about what it takes to get into Cal these days. Not just the ridiculously high grades and test scores, but the attention to building a resume from your early high school years. The constant focus on academics. And then think about how much Cal costs to attend compared to what it used to cost. And then consider what the prospects are upon leaving Cal, where jobs are in short supply outside of a few areas. You have a student body that is more driven to score and grade out well because if they don't they won't get the job that lets them pay back their ridiculously high student loans. This is not a recipe for spending your Wednesday nights wasting time at basketball games, or even spending Saturdays at a football or basketball game.

I'd be willing to wager the percentage of the student body who played high school sports has declined considerably as well. I think we're talking a different kind of kid these days. And I freely admit I wouldn't have had a chance at admission to Cal today, because in high school I wasn't the driven type.

SDSU, even granting that it may have attributes of which I'm unaware, has a rep as a party school that is well deserved. I don't care how many applications they get, if one reason is that the weather is great and the girls are hot and weekends are raging. That's a different talent base and I think the gap is widening in some ways.

I have no data to back up what are obviously impressionistic thoughts, but I also teach at the grad level and I know what it takes to get admission and how much pressure these kids are under.
HoopDreams
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I don't think it's just college sports. This WSJ article talks how theater attendance is down, and attributes it to a larger generational shift....

The bottom line is clear: The idea that you might voluntarily go out at night to see a half-dozen human beings act out a story in personmuch less that you'd commit in advance to doing so at a specific hour on a specific dayis now alien to most Americans, especially younger ones.

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304866904579266882201324884?mod=djemLifeStyle_h
R.Hobbs
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a dual edged sword are the TV deals that the conferences enter into with television. yes the conferences get a ton of money to distribute to their members . But at the same time , it makes it easier to keep your discretionary income and pass on booster fees, season tickets, etc.
UCBerkGrad
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wvitbear;842257674 said:

Now all you talk about are the Soldiers. Does anyone out there in high school know the Soldiers?


I would estimate 70-80% of high schoolers that consider themselves sports fans know the Soldiers. 90%+ if hoops is their favorite sport.
bluesaxe
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R.Hobbs;842257920 said:

a dual edged sword are the TV deals that the conferences enter into with television. yes the conferences get a ton of money to distribute to their members . But at the same time , it makes it easier to keep your discretionary income and pass on booster fees, season tickets, etc.

Also, the more money that gets poured into college sports, the more it costs to attend and the more it seems like a minor league professional endeavor. Then there's the one and done aspect of it. Both changes have affected me and I'm a lifelong college hoops fan.
Optimistic Bear
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I agree with pretty much all of this.

I still get shocked to see how expensive some of these tickets go for when they need sell out. I think the costs just aren't at the right price point especially when the at home experience keeps getting better and better.
ducky23
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We've had this discussion before.

I've made the Facebook generation argument many times and I believe it to be true.

More specific to cal, I also believe another problem is that our student body is more identical to Furds student body than many realize.

Back in the day, there was a definite difference between our student bodies. As far as pure intelligence, cals top 50% has always been equal to Stanford's. But (and These are gross generalizations obviously) one student body was on the wealthier side, more nerdy and probably more driven.

I suggest that because it's so difficult to get into cal these days, cals student body is now much wealthier, nerdier and more driven then in the past. which contributes to the lack of student turn out.

What makes me sad is that the rivalry used to be great because cal and furd students used to be different in many respects. Now we are just becoming a public Stanford. Ugh.
GB54
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College basketball is only interesting in March- ok at least to me

What used to make it interesting is that you had players who competed for four years-great players at that. This fueled rivalries, inter conference games, excitement and the one thing that all sports need-partisan hatred. This was true even when Casey Jacobson came to town let alone the greats. You knew all these guys and wanted to come out and taunt them.

Now the players are transient, the rivalries don't matter so much, the quality of the play is far inferior, the regular season is mostly meaningless, the end of the season conference tournaments a joke. All that matters is whether you make the tournament because that's when the excitement starts and finishes. The NCAA has created the greatest show in sports but it has diminished what remains of the sport.
UrsaMajor
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The TV deals have made a major difference in live attendance, but another aspect is the change in TV itself. Back in the 60's or 70's, TV was 2 or 3 cameras, a fuzzy picture, and no replay. The advent of hi-def, technological bells and whistles such as the yellow 1st down line, 20+ cameras for some games, instant replay, slo-motion, etc. make the viewing experience much better in some ways than the live experience (this is especially true for football, less so for basketball). This is why colleges need to sell the collegiate experience, what the late Chris Schenkel used to call "the color and pagentry of college football [or basketball]."
GMP
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UCBerkGrad;842257921 said:

I would estimate 70-80% of high schoolers that consider themselves sports fans know the Soldiers. 90%+ if hoops is their favorite sport.


That seems insanely high. Like 3x too high.
ducky23
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grandmastapoop;842258191 said:

That seems insanely high. Like 3x too high.


I bet if you took a poll of BI basketball posters, maybe 50% may know who the soldiers are. That mights even be high.
Chabbear
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The question for the Soldiers issue is:

Do the high school students follow, talk about and attend Soldier games in a way that they follow or used to follow their high school bb teams? Do the Soldiers build that desire to go to games in the high schoolers like some argue was the case in the past with just high school bb.
Cal8285
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Many people have hit on various aspects of the problem, but certainly, a huge part of the problem is that TV has become more important than attendance. Once upon a time, the main points were a) the experience for the students of participating in athletics, and b) the experience for those attending. Now, both of those are secondary to TV.

We can start with the schedule. Once upon a time, the schedule of games was about convenience for the students and the fans attending the games. Now, the schedule of games is about what works for TV. Game time keeping you up too late on a work night? Game time too early to get from work to the game? Sorry, TV rules. The schedule keeps student athletes away from campus for an absurd period of time? Sorry, TV rules. Football won't tell us game times for most conference games until 12 days before the game, sometimes 6? You want to plan your life? Sorry, TV is more important than your ability to attend the game.

The audience for spectator sports is also much more fractured than previously, and you can now watch whatever you want on TV. There are so many different sports available to follow, and so many different teams. You can watch college basketball all the time if you want. College football is on almost every night that pro football isn't on (and on Thursdays, you can watch either). As recently as the 1970's, the American TV sports world was all about once a week Major League Baseball plus local telecasts of a good handful of games (although if you were lucky to be enough in markets like New York, ever local game was telecast), 2 Sunday football games, spilling onto Monday night in 1970, one game, occasionally two games, of college football on Saturday, and that was about it. Basketball? By the end of the 1970's, it was so clear that interest was low in the NBA that rather than waste prime time TV slots on the finals, they were tape delayed in the 11:30 slot (with the east coast getting the benefit of having some west coast games shown live).

Interest in spectator sports is a lot higher than it was 40 years ago, but the combination of the audience being fractured and the TV audience being more important than those who actually want to attend, along with high ticket prices, means you get the less than inspired crowds you see at Haas. Sure, there are other factors at work, too, but these are pretty big factors.
calumnus
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Chabbear;842258256 said:

The question for the Soldiers issue is:

Do the high school students follow, talk about and attend Soldier games in a way that they follow or used to follow their high school bb teams? Do the the Soldiers build that desire to go to games in the high schoolers like some argue was the case in the past with just high school bb.


Is there some way we could have the Oakland Soldiers play games at Haas? Maybe even host an AAU tournament? It would be a good way to get top players from around the country to visit the campus/Bay Area and get casual Bay Area fans to see how great the Haas game day experience can be. Maybe even get some kids (not just players) interested in Cal.
UCBerkGrad
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Cal8285;842258276 said:

The schedule keeps student athletes away from campus for an absurd period of time?


What do you mean by this?
LOUMFSG2
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UCBerkGrad;842258416 said:

What do you mean by this?


I think he means that conference road trips used to involve games on Thursday/Saturday, but with the new TV contacts, it can be Thursday/Sunday, Wednesday/Saturday, or even Wednesday/Sunday. Not ideal for student-athletes . . .
bearpride757
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I don't think kids in high school actually "follow" the Oakland Soldiers. However, online kids are instantly able to see highlight tapes, which increase their level of interest. This Oakland Soldiers highlight tape has over 680,000 views! http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=oakland+soldiers&sm=3

I haven't able to find any college team highlight videos with similar numbers.
wvitbear
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We draw more than Oregon and UCLA at home this year. They have new fans and are top 25 teams. attendance is down everywhere.

The problem with the Soldiers is they don't represent anyone. Say you go to an albany High School game. They represent your school and town. Can anyone tell me who the players on last year's soldier team were?

You go to high school games now and there are 100 in the gym. This is your college base. They are used to going out to see a game. And that is not many.
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