"At Cal and in the Pac-12, the worst officiating is arguably in the Pac-12, and it's safe to say that now, because I'm gone," Brown said. "There were a lot of frustrating nights I had, and I had to really teach myself, and some of the other guys had to pull me aside and help me adjust and keep my frustration levels down. So it's just a process."

http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/celtics/2016/07/05/celtics-rookie-jaylen-brown-already-showing-poise/DIyJ4kSJhAAsUcxHBg44fM/story.html

NewYorkCityBear;842706113 said:

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"At Cal and in the Pac-12, the worst officiating is arguably in the Pac-12, and it's safe to say that now, because I'm gone," Brown said. "There were a lot of frustrating nights I had, and I had to really teach myself, and some of the other guys had to pull me aside and help me adjust and keep my frustration levels down. So it's just a process."

http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/celtics/2016/07/05/celtics-rookie-jaylen-brown-already-showing-poise/DIyJ4kSJhAAsUcxHBg44fM/story.html

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Honestly, the perception that the PAC has the worst officiating is bad for the conference and recruiting. Despite that, the PAC-12 has the 2nd most NBA players after the ACC. But Larry Scott needs to do something about this. It's utterly ridiculous. Just like a lot of the calls against Jaylen last season.

tsubamoto2001;842706127 said:

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Honestly, the perception that the PAC has the worst officiating is bad for the conference and recruiting. Despite that, the PAC-12 has the 2nd most NBA players after the ACC. But Larry Scott needs to do something about this. It's utterly ridiculous. Just like a lot of the calls against Jaylen last season.

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+1

ruins the game from a spectator's point of view also - and numbers league wide are in decline

I love Jaylen and wish him nothing but success----but just because the NBA refs let LeBron lower his shoulder and bull rush through his defender to the hoop instead of doing a cross over dribble around him does not mean Pac 12 officials were incompetent for not allowing Jaylen to do the same thing (actually at the beginning of the season they were allowing his move but not so much at the end and the refs in The Dance, not at all).

Everybody knows this.

Well, we didn't have Pac12 refs in the NCAA tourny, and he fouled out..just sayin..

bearister;842706131 said:

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I love Jaylen and wish him nothing but success----but just because the NBA refs let LeBron lower his shoulder and bull rush through his defender to the hoop instead of doing a cross over dribble around him does not mean Pac 12 officials were incompetent for not allowing Jaylen to do the same thing (actually at the beginning of the season they were allowing his move but not so much at the end and the refs in The Dance, not at all).

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Yep. LeBron gets away with outright thuggery. Jaylen had better realize that he won't get away with the same sh*t in the NBA unless he becomes a multi-year MVP.

I agree with Jaylen . I on the East Coast and watch ACC, SEC games etc as well as the PAC-12 and the difference between the conferences as far as officiating is obvious ...

R.Hobbs;842706246 said:

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I agree with Jaylen . I on the East Coast and watch ACC, SEC games etc as well as the PAC-12 and the difference between the conferences as far as officiating is obvious ...

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I agree with this. I watch about 50% Pac-12 and 50% ACC and the officiating in the Pac-12 is noticeably and clearly worse.

I watch a lot of Big East BB and they're officiating is horrible but not anywhere close to the level of the Pac.

I certainly didn't see every foul called on Jaylen last season but many that I did see were clearly of the "bull in a china shop" type where he simply was out of control. I would say his foul problems were more on him than the refs although I agree that PAC12 officiating is probably the worst of any major conference. Players have to adjust to the way the game is being called and I don't think he did that very well.

I didn't have a problem with the Pac 12 refs calling charges on Jaylen. I had a huge problem with the touch, phantom, and anticipatory fouls constantly called not only on Jaylen and Cal, but our opponents as well.

Cheers to Jaylen for calling it like it is.

It has everything to do with consistency of calls. To my eye, everything changed after that Arizona game when he fouled out in 15 minutes (he was called for, what, 3 or 4 charges?). Following that game, he started hesitating on the drive more, favoring more of a side step and moving laterally as opposed to getting to the rim. It threw his game completely off - the rhythm of his jumpers, shot selection, and passing. Excluding those final five games - all played away or on neutral court - Brown had been averaging 3.0 fouls/game for the season. In Pac-12 play not including those five games, averaging 2.75 fouls/game (3.0 for away games). In those final five games, he averaged 4.0 fouls/game, even as he was trying to make adjustments he was still being whistled. However frustrating that was to watch, must have been brutal on Jaylen.

MinotStateBeav;842706188 said:

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Well, we didn't have Pac12 refs in the NCAA tourny, and he fouled out..just sayin..

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We also didn't have starting guards in the tourney. the rotations and players' minutes were odd, by necessity.

different types of fouls called on jaylen
when he was defending
when he had the ball

he and everyone got called on many touch fouls ... maybe that was due to the freedom of movement focus

but the ones that were ridiculous were some of the charge fouls near the end of the year, where players just threw their body in front of him and then flopped
on the other hand, he needs to improve his handle, and develop some counters so that his drives are less predicable

Jaylen's comments may be true, but he is almost the worst person to be making them with any hope of impact. Although I am one of the biggest critics of P12 officiating - even I have to admit that Jaylen earned most of his calls (at least as much as any other P12 player last season) and was pretty stubborn about not adapting his game to the situation.

Ivan makes a much better case IMHO, but obviously can't say anything since he is still playing.

free throw shooting contests are not entertaining. too many ticky tack fouls called. let the players play.

bearister;842706131 said:

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I love Jaylen and wish him nothing but success----but just because the NBA refs let LeBron lower his shoulder and bull rush through his defender to the hoop instead of doing a cross over dribble around him does not mean Pac 12 officials were incompetent for not allowing Jaylen to do the same thing (actually at the beginning of the season they were allowing his move but not so much at the end and the refs in The Dance, not at all).

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Good points. And Jaylen Brown wasn't called for nearly enough fouls, especially offensive ones, in my opinion.

I think he would greatly improve his game and commit fewer offensive fouls if he would improve his dribbling. He does not switch hands very well while dribbling. When he is dribbling in traffic, his off hand is too busy pushing, shoving, or grabbing his defender, or making a fist to punch a defender in the chest to create some space to get by him.

Brown is so strong that he can control the ball without palming it, like other players do, but a strong dribble is not enough to protect the ball from defenders in a double team. He has to learn to be able to switch hands without losing the ball. He had the ball stolen way too often for a star player. He has no crossover move, because he does not palm the ball. He has to learn to palm the ball so he can execute a crossover. If he had a crossover move, he could get by defenders without using his off hand to ward off defenders when he drives.


"At Cal and in the Pac-12, the worst officiating is arguably in the Pac-12, and it's safe to say that now, because I'm gone," Brown said.

I am disappointed that Brown would make comments like this about PAC12 officiating. He is welcome to his opinion, but to make his contempt for PAC12 officiating so public reflects on Cal, and on his former teammates, who will have to continue to play and compete in this conference, and comments like this can influence officials not to look on Cal players in games with full impartiality. Brown is still part of the Cal family, albeit a small part, and should act like he was still here, and not make such statements publicly, IMO.

You're right about Jaylen's handle, which wasn't up to the level necessary for the kind of game he wants/needs to play. On the other hand, there was a ton of flopping going on, and some of the fouls weren't deserved.

I know you keep harping on "palming," but it's past time you recognized that the interpretation of the rules changed around 30 or 40 years ago, and what you now call "palming" is legal in the eyes of every official. You may have noticed that even in your era, players routinely violated the original ruling on dribbling as set down by Naismith--that you must dribble with both hands simultaneously.

As for his comments, I don't think it reflected that badly on Cal, any more than Steve Kerr's did on the Warriors. If you believe that these comments can influence officials next year, then the Pac-12 officials are far worse than even Jaylen imagines.

SFCityBear;842706816 said:

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Brown is so strong that he can control the ball without palming it, like other players do, but a strong dribble is not enough to protect the ball from defenders in a double team. He has to learn to be able to switch hands without losing the ball. He had the ball stolen way too often for a star player. He has no crossover move, because he does not palm the ball. He has to learn to palm the ball so he can execute a crossover. If he had a crossover move, he could get by defenders without using his off hand to ward off defenders when he drives.

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No crossover move? The first two plays are crossovers and then dunks in traffic.

:40 is a behind the back move.
1:52 is a dribble hesitation crossover
2:10 is a between the legs into a crossover

This is all in a 3 minute highlight video.

These officials are wussifying the game. They need to figure out their theatrics STAT because Pac 12 officials are atrocious and seem to harbor vendettas.

Jaylen is better in the open court with his cross
in the half court, he needs to improve

he has a nice spin move when he meets a defender, but that move has high difficulty and can only be used occasionally, otherwise he will be stripped when attempting it too often

he needs a quicker cross and a counter, some hesitation moves, and be able to pull up so defenders can't go all in on stopping his drive

concernedparent;842707346 said:

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No crossover move? The first two plays are crossovers and then dunks in traffic.

:40 is a behind the back move.
1:52 is a dribble hesitation crossover
2:10 is a between the legs into a crossover

This is all in a 3 minute highlight video.

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The problem with PAC officiating is that if some hits the floor they assume it is a foul. Every once in a while the refs have to tell floppers to get their ass of the ground and play some defense. The other problem with the refs is that they give the benefit of the doubt to the defense. I remember the charge call on Wallace at the beginning of the Utah tournament game for example. Brandon Taylor wasn't even close to set, but they called a charge because he acted like he got hit with a semi truck. The charge/block calls in the PAC are differentiated by how far someone flops, not by whether the defender is in legal guarding position.

btsktr;842707417 said:

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The problem with PAC officiating is that if some hits the floor they assume it is a foul. Every once in a while the refs have to tell floppers to get their ass of the ground and play some defense. The other problem with the refs is that they give the benefit of the doubt to the defense. I remember the charge call on Wallace at the beginning of the Utah tournament game for example. Brandon Taylor wasn't even close to set, but they called a charge because he acted like he got hit with a semi truck. The charge/block calls in the PAC are differentiated by how far someone flops, not by whether the defender is in legal guarding position.

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The problem with PAC officiating is the officials. Their objective seems to be a big part of the drama and NOT an unbiased adjudicator of the rule book. Long time outs, exercising subjective judgments in response to the crowd, over-dramatic officiating gestures - these are but a few examples of how they are all drama queens. I get it, they get caught up in the moment. And the NBA refs have taken this to an extreme level as examples. But, unlike those of us that pay money to participate as fans at HAAS, they are getting paid! They can do much, much better and should be held to a higher standard. Objectively, their role is to ensure the game is being played in a fair manner. However, it seems that is not what is first and foremost in their minds. The solution needs to come from the P12 office and head of officials - but I seriously doubt they are being instructed to be unobtrusive and objective. If this is the case, then the execution has been an abject failure and heads should roll.

Officiating basketball is really, really hard and I generally give them the benefit of the doubt, but P12 officials are worse than most other conferences and worse than they used to be and getting slower and more inconsistent each season. In fact, I've watched a few MWC and WCC games with the SAME OFFICIALS doing a much better job in those contests - I can only assume it is the brighter lights and TV exposure that brings the worst out of each of them. Greenstein - I'm looking at you.

:rant

I would say he had an inordinate number of cheap or non-existent fouls called on him, and that there were many that he deserved on the offensive end. But even there, the Pac-12 officials buy flops, let guys slide under players leaving the ground and call charges, and in general can't seem to call a consistent game. This conference needs to upgrade its officiating and its supervision of officials to get a consistently called game that doesn't involve constant touch fouls having no impact on play.

59bear;842706266 said:

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I certainly didn't see every foul called on Jaylen last season but many that I did see were clearly of the "bull in a china shop" type where he simply was out of control. I would say his foul problems were more on him than the refs although I agree that PAC12 officiating is probably the worst of any major conference. Players have to adjust to the way the game is being called and I don't think he did that very well.

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I agree that he needs to improve his ball handling skills in order to avoid some of the dumb charge calls. He also needs to learn hesitation moves better, use better judgment on when to try and complete a drive and when to pull up or dish, and to keep his head up more on drives. That said, the Pac-12 officiating is the worst in the country from my observation of how various conferences call games. It is the least consistent, both game to game and within games, and the conference in which the most ticky-tack fouls are called. It makes for crap games in which there's no flow, good players sit, and we just watch guys shoot free throws. It stifles defensive energy and makes for a lousy entertainment product. And there are officials in this conference who are flat out incompetent.

Both things can be true

SFCityBear;842706816 said:

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Good points. And Jaylen Brown wasn't called for nearly enough fouls, especially offensive ones, in my opinion.

I think he would greatly improve his game and commit fewer offensive fouls if he would improve his dribbling. He does not switch hands very well while dribbling. When he is dribbling in traffic, his off hand is too busy pushing, shoving, or grabbing his defender, or making a fist to punch a defender in the chest to create some space to get by him.

Brown is so strong that he can control the ball without palming it, like other players do, but a strong dribble is not enough to protect the ball from defenders in a double team. He has to learn to be able to switch hands without losing the ball. He had the ball stolen way too often for a star player. He has no crossover move, because he does not palm the ball. He has to learn to palm the ball so he can execute a crossover. If he had a crossover move, he could get by defenders without using his off hand to ward off defenders when he drives.


"At Cal and in the Pac-12, the worst officiating is arguably in the Pac-12, and it's safe to say that now, because I'm gone," Brown said.

I am disappointed that Brown would make comments like this about PAC12 officiating. He is welcome to his opinion, but to make his contempt for PAC12 officiating so public reflects on Cal, and on his former teammates, who will have to continue to play and compete in this conference, and comments like this can influence officials not to look on Cal players in games with full impartiality. Brown is still part of the Cal family, albeit a small part, and should act like he was still here, and not make such statements publicly, IMO.

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UrsaMajor;842706859 said:

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I know you keep harping on "palming," but it's past time you recognized that the interpretation of the rules changed around 30 or 40 years ago, and what you now call "palming" is legal in the eyes of every official. You may have noticed that even in your era, players routinely violated the original ruling on dribbling as set down by Naismith--that you must dribble with both hands simultaneously.

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UrsaMajor, let's get our facts and rules straight, OK? First of all, Naismith's 13 original rules of basketball, published in 1892, did not permit any dribbling at all.

http://www.usab.com/history/dr-james-naismiths-original-13-rules-of-basketball.aspx

Second, the rules were changed in 1901 to allow dribbling, but only for one bounce and must be done with both hands at once. Third, in 1909, the rules were changed again to allow continuous dribbling with one hand and also shooting off the dribble.

http://hooptactics.com/Basketball_Basics_History

My era was 1960, some 50 years later, and what does what players in my era did in relation to some rule that was in place prior to 1909 but was no longer a rule after 1909 have to do with today's players and referees disregarding today's specific rules which make palming the ball illegal? It's a non-sequitur.

The interpretation of the palming rule hasn't changed at all. The rule is being completely ignored and completely disregarded by both players and officials in the NCAA and NBA. Your argument sounds suspiciously like we should all accept palming because everyone is doing it, and the authorities are not enforcing the rule against doing it. How do you feel about the fact that no one ever makes a full stop at a stop sign any more? Or bicyclists illegally riding on sidewalks, a rule no longer enforced? Hit and run accidents are only enforced if there is an injury involved. If you lived in Chicago, where 2000 folks have been shot so far this year, would you say police should give up and not enforce gun laws, because everyone is ignoring them? Sports are just a metaphor for society, and in sports disregarding rules leads to corruption of a wonderful game, basketball, and in society it leads to anarchy and chaos in society at large. Breaking rules have consequences.

The palming rule was put in place to keep the offensive player from getting a great advantage over his defender. If the offensive player is allowed to pause his dribble by palming the ball for a split second, and then restart his dribble, any defender's reaction time is too slow to keep up with the dribbler, and any official's reflexes are not fast enough to see the palm, see the dribble stop, and then start, so he can call the violation. Thus, the overwhelming advantage goes to the dribbler. And the crossover was born.

Even though both the NBA and NCAA have not long ago taken steps to have palming enforced, the players have resisted those steps, and continued to intimidate officials, so that palming violations are never ever called. It is a case of the inmates running the asylum. Charging and traveling are similar, although those violations might still be called once or twice a game now. Being allowed to charge and travel with abandon also gives the offensive player a great advantage over his defender. In the case of charging, the rule itself continues to be weakened over time. Basketball was originally invented to be an equal and fair contest between offenses vs defenses, with neither side getting an edge. Today, basketball has become more of a shooting contest between shooters of two teams, defense be damned, as defenders become more and more handicapped by the rules or officials disregarding the rules. No longer is it a game which is fair. If there is no way to stop this runaway train toward making this an offense only game, if fans insist only on seeing offense, the threes, the high-flying dunks, the (boring to me) big guy bulling his way to the basket, or the killer crossover, then I'd propose some rules to help the defense. First, make the dunk worth only one point, because it is the easiest shot in the game. Second, award points for defensive plays of skill: If a defender steals a ball, or deflects a shot, his team is awarded a point. If a defender blocks a shot, his team is awarded two points. Maybe then we might see some more interest and respect for defensive plays and see parity between offense and defense.

SFCity:

You're better than this. ARe you really comparing dribbling a basketball with murder? Really? Come on; I have always respected you, but this is just Trumpian bizarre.

If the rule is in your view ignored, then I would argue it's "interpretation" has changed, but perhaps that's just semantics. I certainly disagree with your claim that charging and traveling are only called 1-2x a game (if so, how did Jaylen routinely get 2-3/game by himself?). And to assume that these violations aren't called because players "intimidate" refs is an outrageous slur on both unless you have evidence to the contrary (maybe you saw someone beat up a ref in the alley behind Haas?).

On your larger point--I don't see an offense-only game. You, yourself, have pointed out that shooting percentages haven't gone up significantly, nor has scoring once you factor in the 3-point shot and the shot-clock. Unless you want to argue that today's athletes are much worse than those of the 60's, i would suggest that defense continues to be a crucial part of the game.

concernedparent;842707346 said:

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No crossover move? The first two plays are crossovers and then dunks in traffic.

:40 is a behind the back move.
1:52 is a dribble hesitation crossover
2:10 is a between the legs into a crossover

This is all in a 3 minute highlight video.

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Well, I'd have to defer to you on this. I wasn't able to play the video clip in slow motion, and my eyes and reflexes are not quick enough to determine whether Brown's hand is below the equator of the ball and allowing the ball to come to rest, in violation of the palming rule. Brown is way too quick for me to see everything that he is doing with his hands on the dribble. He always looked to me like he was just changing hands without palming, and perhaps I was wrong.

Maybe what I should have written was that Brown did not have a DEPENDABLE crossover, and his huge amount of turnovers, most of them on the dribble, suggest that. Highlight films only show the good stuff, and none of the lowlights, like turnovers.

Brown ranked first (worst) in the PAC12 in minutes per turnover, and 2nd in total turnovers. UW's Murray had more total turnovers, but played 200 more minutes than Brown.

Minutes per turnover:

1. Brown Cal 8.9
2. Fortune CO.10.3
3. Murray UW10.4
4. Iroegbu WSU .10.9
5. Holiday UCLA ...11.0
6. Wallace Cal 11.9
7. Jacobs USC 11.6
8. Holder ASU 12.1
9. Andrews UW ..12.1
10. Allen AZ ...12.5
11. McLaughlin USC 13.6
12. Brooks OR ...14.0
13. Poeltl Utah ...14.8
14. Payton OSU .14.8
15. Taylor Utah ..15.0
16. Allen Stanford ..17.0

Total Turnovers:

1. Murray UW110
2. Brown Cal. 105
3. Andrews UW...... 95
4. Holiday UCLA 92
5. Brooks OR89
6. Iroegbu WSU ..87
7. Holder ASU.84
8. Jacobs USC..83
9. McLauglin USC81
10. Taylor Utah79
11. Fortune CO.76
12. Wallace Cal.......76
13. Payton OSU74
14. Poeltl Utah.74
15. Allen AZ.68
16. Allen Stanford60

In any case, Brown would do well to improve his dribbling, and cut down on his turnovers. The shorter shot clock of 24 seconds makes the NBA game faster paced, and easier to commit turnovers. Turnovers lose games.

Good points on how Jaylen's game contributes to the fouls called on him. Actually, Brown's lack of a consistent perimeter shot is the most glaring offensive deficiency. Jaylen's lack of confidence in his outside shots probably the reason why he resorts to bull-rushing to the hoop. The pros will exploit this aspect of his game.

puget sound cal fan;842711210 said:

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Good points on how Jaylen's game contributes to the fouls called on him. Actually, Brown's lack of a consistent perimeter shot is the most glaring offensive deficiency. Jaylen's lack of confidence in his outside shots probably the reason why he resorts to bull-rushing to the hoop. The pros will exploit this aspect of his game.

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That was part of the problem
Defenders defended the drive, not the shot
That was one of the biggest problems when JB drove. Once JB can shoot, the defenses will need to defend it, making it easier to drive
It's pretty well established that driving on a defender from a set position when that defender is playing back is a tough play

The Celtics coaches figure this out pretty quickly
They got him the ball with him on the move

(he needs better ball handling too)

And a few times his shot looked pretty good.

Hoping Jaylen lives up to the vision that the Celtics have of him in the next several years.

Since a lot of that comes from within Jaylen, how hard he will work, how hard he will concentrate and practice, how high he rises is hard to predict. He has the raw equipment.

Agree

He's got good form on his shot, but he needs to put in the work for consistency, plus improve his ball handling (learn some counters, and combo moves) and have the game slow down for him. That's a lot to work on, but he's such a natural, and has a strong work ethic that I think he'll get there

south bender;842711321 said:

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And a few times his shot looked pretty good.

Hoping Jaylen lives up to the vision that the Celtics have of him in the next several years.

Since a lot of that comes from within Jaylen, how hard he will work, how hard he will concentrate and practice, how high he rises is hard to predict. He has the raw equipment.

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