Deschon Winston and Austin McCullough? True? Read it from other Cal site.

True

They haven't gone anywhere. The two scholarships are not available. What a disaster

oskidunker said:

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They haven't gone anywhere. The two scholarships are not available. What a disaster

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Relax.
More to come on this.

oskidunker said:

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They haven't gone anywhere. The two scholarships are not available. What a disaster

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I just looked outside. I'm happy to report that the sky is still there.

Not when talking about Cal Basketball.

oskidunker said:

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They haven't gone anywhere. The two scholarships are not available. What a disaster

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Why aren't the scholarships available?

Did Wyking Jones pull a Calipari?

SFCityBear said:

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oskidunker said:

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They haven't gone anywhere. The two scholarships are not available. What a disaster

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Why aren't the scholarships available?

Did Wyking Jones pull a Calipari?

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Of course they'll be available.

If the players refuse to transfer and want to stay at Cal, NCAA rules say you can not pull the scholarships. So far, they have indicated they are not leaving. That, of course, could change. Stay tuned.

oskidunker said:

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If the players refuse to transfer and want to stay at Cal, NCAA rules say you can not pull the scholarships. So far, they have indicated they are not leaving. That, of course, could change. Stay tuned.

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I'd be very surprised if these two scholarships do not become available.

Alkiadt said:

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oskidunker said:

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If the players refuse to transfer and want to stay at Cal, NCAA rules say you can not pull the scholarships. So far, they have indicated they are not leaving. That, of course, could change. Stay tuned.

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I'd be very surprised if these two scholarships do not become available.

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Me too, but it sure does not look good as of this moment.

oskidunker said:

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If the players refuse to transfer and want to stay at Cal, NCAA rules say you can not pull the scholarships. So far, they have indicated they are not leaving. That, of course, could change. Stay tuned.

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I'm pretty sure athletic scholarships are annual and the don't have to be renewed by the school at the end of the school year

OaktownBear said:

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oskidunker said:

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If the players refuse to transfer and want to stay at Cal, NCAA rules say you can not pull the scholarships. So far, they have indicated they are not leaving. That, of course, could change. Stay tuned.

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I'm pretty sure athletic scholarships are annual and the don't have to be renewed by the school at the end of the school year

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Not anymore.

http://www.espn.com/college-sports/story/_/id/11775571/pac-12-passes-athlete-reforms-including-guaranteed-4-year-scholarships

OaktownBear said:

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oskidunker said:

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If the players refuse to transfer and want to stay at Cal, NCAA rules say you can not pull the scholarships. So far, they have indicated they are not leaving. That, of course, could change. Stay tuned.

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I'm pretty sure athletic scholarships are annual and the don't have to be renewed by the school at the end of the school year

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It sounds like Coach was thinking the same thing.

TheSouseFamily said:

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OaktownBear said:

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oskidunker said:

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If the players refuse to transfer and want to stay at Cal, NCAA rules say you can not pull the scholarships. So far, they have indicated they are not leaving. That, of course, could change. Stay tuned.

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I'm pretty sure athletic scholarships are annual and the don't have to be renewed by the school at the end of the school year

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Not anymore.

http://www.espn.com/college-sports/story/_/id/11775571/pac-12-passes-athlete-reforms-including-guaranteed-4-year-scholarships

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They are four year contracts, but like most contracts, there is some fine print. such as meeting all requirements of your contract. Then I read a USC contract and basically they can nail you for essentially anything. A bad word in an e mail, a drink while under 21, any (i.e., one time) drug use including prescription drug use, any threatening gesture in a game or match, or bad language to a ref or heard by fans, and on and on and on. They have several hundred pages of rules.

For you lawyers, query if there is an obligation to allow the two players the good faith opportunity next year to make the roster (implied covenant of god faith and fair dealing, etc.)?

This is a tricky and somewhat unfortunate situation all around.

Let's say the players in question like it at Cal, would like to stay and graduate and are willing to work as hard as the average Pac 12 scholarship basketball player, maintaining a positive attitude.

Half of me says the coaches should tell them that they may never break into the rotation and they might consider transferring. HOWEVER, if they want to stay and work their butts off, they are welcome to and the coaches will treat them in a positive way (not trying to "run them off"). They have four years.

Of course, the other half of me scoffs at the first half, saying, "It's 2018, Pollyanna: The stakes are too high."

In the past, we've usually been able to get some sort of injury exemption for players. That, or, seeing the handwriting on the wall, they've decided to leave of their own volition, seeing more playing time elsewhere (or WAS it "of their own volition"?).

Interesting moral and ethical dilemma. Like I said, I am torn.

Big C said:

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This is a tricky and somewhat unfortunate situation all around.

Let's say the players in question like it at Cal, would like to stay and graduate and are willing to work as hard as the average Pac 12 scholarship basketball player, maintaining a positive attitude.

Half of me says the coaches should tell them that they may never break into the rotation and they might consider transferring. HOWEVER, if they want to stay and work their butts off, they are welcome to and the coaches will treat them in a positive way (not trying to "run them off"). They have four years.

Of course, the other half of me scoffs at the first half, saying, "It's 2018, Pollyanna: The stakes are too high."

In the past, we've usually been able to get some sort of injury exemption for players. That, or, seeing the handwriting on the wall, they've decided to leave of their own volition, seeing more playing time elsewhere (or WAS it "of their own volition"?).

Interesting moral and ethical dilemma. Like I said, I am torn.

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They are owed a scholarship - nothing more. There is no guarantee of a roster spot and there never has been.

Under the circumstances, I have no problem if the coaches tell them that no matter what, they won't be a part of the program. Then the players have a choice to make - keeping their scholarship is within their right - they just will no longer be able to play D-1 basketball. They have a tough choice to make.

Coach went a bit nuts with his scholly adds at the end of the year, when it sounded questionable to me.
If he had a verbal agreement that they'd be on a Show Me short leash, then I'm fine with this. But if that wasn't part of the discussion, then I think these boys should give a big FU middle finger and ride it out so they can get their Cal degree, if so desired. Of course, that makes the team suffer, as if having just 11 scholarships.
This doesn't sound good, at all.
The coaching staff trying to run off players like this? Could be the worst situation since I've been tracking Cal for 15 years or more if I understand it as I think I do. Then again, maybe I'm just completely naive, ignorant about such things - I am.
Jordi Geli
Sam Rayburn
Brandon Chauca

Jordi and Sam apparently had injuries that disallowed participation and they got to keep their scholarships as medical while the team could move on allocating their athletic scholarship to someone new, if I understand correctly.
Brandon got to continue with the "new coach" scholarship, freeing his athletic scholarship up for someone new, like McCullough.

But if there's a recruiting miss, just yanking it from a kid doesn't seem right. He's moved cross country and is engaged in college life. I don't think it's in my value system to jettison youngsters like this, make him reestablish a new college life elsewhere just because he couldn't perform as well as coach thought. Apparently, the conference agrees with my value system, thus the new rules 4 years ago (thanks for that espn article link).

MoragaBear said:

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Civil Bear said:

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OaktownBear said:

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oskidunker said:

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If the players refuse to transfer and want to stay at Cal, NCAA rules say you can not pull the scholarships. So far, they have indicated they are not leaving. That, of course, could change. Stay tuned.

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I'm pretty sure athletic scholarships are annual and the don't have to be renewed by the school at the end of the school year

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It sounds like Coach was thinking the same thing.

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No. He knew the rules. Compliance has been in the loop.

This is not a spur of the moment thing.

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It my question is why do we know about it now, without the resolution? If I am coach, I don't want this out in the open until it's resolved

Uh, there is what is called "Merit Based Aid".....If any of the three recruits of whom we are concentrating, is this avenue a possibility?

What if the NCAA allowed schools to rotate players from athletic scholarship to just alumni grant money.
Should we care?
Sure, the richest schools would stockpile, but should we care?

concordtom said:

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What if the NCAA allowed schools to rotate players from athletic scholarship to just alumni grant money.
Should we care?
Sure, the richest schools would stockpile, but should we care?

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But to keep it clean, WJ could just never play them, nor practice them. Let them crash books and get a diploma.

OdontoBear66 said:

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concordtom said:

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What if the NCAA allowed schools to rotate players from athletic scholarship to just alumni grant money.
Should we care?
Sure, the richest schools would stockpile, but should we care?

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But to keep it clean, WJ could just never play them, nor practice them. Let them crash books and get a diploma.

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Right, but then Cal loses two scholarships, and 2 practice players. Not a good hoops outcome.
And for what? The guys surely wish to be part of the team.

MoragaBear said:

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Civil Bear said:

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OaktownBear said:

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oskidunker said:

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If the players refuse to transfer and want to stay at Cal, NCAA rules say you can not pull the scholarships. So far, they have indicated they are not leaving. That, of course, could change. Stay tuned.

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I'm pretty sure athletic scholarships are annual and the don't have to be renewed by the school at the end of the school year

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It sounds like Coach was thinking the same thing.

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No. He knew the rules. Compliance has been in the loop.

This is not a spur of the moment thing.

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So reading between the lines it seems WJ gave these 2 the news weeks ago and they have chosen for now anyway to stay at Cal. Since they did not play ball and request a release WJ now has tightened the screws by cutting the players and now they realize that transferring is the only avenue to continue to play.
2018 recruiting is winding down and WJ needs the spots. So now it is out in the open. I expect this resolve fairly quickly.

Lot's of good basketball players choose not to play organized Bball in college and just get their degree. My step son was a 6-4 point guard on his high school team that won the state championship his senior year and lost in the finals the year before. He had offers to play at a well known mid-major and the premier Ivy. He knew he was never going to sniff a pro career. He opted to concentrate on his studies and played pick up games and intramural basketball while in school. Things have turned out very well for him in terms of academic and career success. You can love playing basketball but not want the rigors associated with daily practices, early mornings in the weight room and incessant travel from Thursday through Sunday. I wouldn't assume that the 2 players dismissed from the roster are going to transfer somehwere, sit out a year without scholarship, leave a free 4 year ride at Cal and go through the rigors of playing college ball with no hope of a professional basketball career.

cubzwin said:

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Lot's of good basketball players choose not to play organized Bball in college and just get their degree. My step son was a 6-4 point guard on his high school team that won the state championship his senior year and lost in the finals the year before. He had offers to play at a well known mid-major and the premier Ivy. He knew he was never going to sniff a pro career. He opted to concentrate on his studies and played pick up games and intramural basketball while in school. Things have turned out very well for him in terms of academic and career success. You can love playing basketball but not want the rigors associated with daily practices, early mornings in the weight room and incessant travel from Thursday through Sunday. I wouldn't assume that the 2 players dismissed from the roster are going to transfer somehwere, sit out a year without scholarship, leave a free 4 year ride at Cal and go through the rigors of playing college ball with no hope of a professional basketball career.

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I used to get schooled on the pick up courts by guys like your step son all the time

Do you remember the pickup games at Live Oak Park, Berkeley? Pretty good competition...indie, hs and college,

This sounds like a very plausible scenario. I find the whole thing pretty distasteful since it was Wyking + Cal that went and recruited these kids to play for us. If they don't pan out as players ~ oh well, that's the risk. If removing them from the team was a tactic to try and recover their schollies then shame on us.

joe amos yaks said:

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Do you remember the pickup games at Live Oak Park, Berkeley? Pretty good competition...indie, hs and college,

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Or the pickup games in the 1960s in the Harmon Gym at lunchtime?

wifeisafurd said:

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TheSouseFamily said:

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OaktownBear said:

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oskidunker said:

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If the players refuse to transfer and want to stay at Cal, NCAA rules say you can not pull the scholarships. So far, they have indicated they are not leaving. That, of course, could change. Stay tuned.

---

I'm pretty sure athletic scholarships are annual and the don't have to be renewed by the school at the end of the school year

---

Not anymore.

http://www.espn.com/college-sports/story/_/id/11775571/pac-12-passes-athlete-reforms-including-guaranteed-4-year-scholarships

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They are four year contracts, but like most contracts, there is some fine print. such as meeting all requirements of your contract. Then I read a USC contract and basically they can nail you for essentially anything. A bad word in an e mail, a drink while under 21, any (i.e., one time) drug use including prescription drug use, any threatening gesture in a game or match, or bad language to a ref or heard by fans, and on and on and on. They have several hundred pages of rules.

For you lawyers, query if there is an obligation to allow the two players the good faith opportunity next year to make the roster (implied covenant of god faith and fair dealing, etc.)?

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So what do the contracts say about what the obligations of the school are if the player is not performing at a high enough level to be on the team, in the opinion of the head coach?

LOL. Mike Montgomery would never have done this. He had multiple opportunities, too. Wyking is going to Wyking, tho. He ain't a good enough coach, either way. Better talent won't hide the fact that he can't coach.