Ivan Rabb Article

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sluggo
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Here is an article describing why Ivan Rabb is just barely in the NBA. As I have argued, he is the right guy in the wrong era. I think the author does a good job making this point. While the author says Rabb needs to get stronger and shoot 3s, I think he would be fine if he could improve on either.

https://www.grizzlybearblues.com/2018/8/31/17803292/ivan-rabb-right-player-wrong-era-memphis-grizzlies-big-man-basketball-marc-gasol-nba

Sluggo
Yogi Is King
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sluggo said:

Here is an article describing why Ivan Rabb is just barely in the NBA. As I have argued, he is the right guy in the wrong era. I think the author does a good job making this point. While the author says Rabb needs to get stronger and shoot 3s, I think he would be fine if he could improve on either.

https://www.grizzlybearblues.com/2018/8/31/17803292/ivan-rabb-right-player-wrong-era-memphis-grizzlies-big-man-basketball-marc-gasol-nba

Sluggo
Shooting 3's is overrated for big men. What decides which big men play more than anything else is how well they defend and how well they can perform being switched onto smaller players in the pick and roll. Rabb has always been a plus rebounder, but he was never a great defender in college and probably still struggling in that area in the pros. The more his defense improves, the more he'll play.

Marc Gasol was NBA Defensive Player of the Year once. That had a bigger impact on his minutes than his late developing three point shot.
sluggo
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Yogi Bear said:

sluggo said:

Here is an article describing why Ivan Rabb is just barely in the NBA. As I have argued, he is the right guy in the wrong era. I think the author does a good job making this point. While the author says Rabb needs to get stronger and shoot 3s, I think he would be fine if he could improve on either.

https://www.grizzlybearblues.com/2018/8/31/17803292/ivan-rabb-right-player-wrong-era-memphis-grizzlies-big-man-basketball-marc-gasol-nba

Sluggo
Shooting 3's is overrated for big men. What decides which big men play more than anything else is how well they defend and how well they can perform being switched onto smaller players in the pick and roll. Rabb has always been a plus rebounder, but he was never a great defender in college and probably still struggling in that area in the pros. The more his defense improves, the more he'll play.

Marc Gasol was NBA Defensive Player of the Year once. That had a bigger impact on his minutes than his late developing three point shot.
I agree that defense is most important, but if he is not able to improve in that area, 3s are an obvious alternative. Marc Gasol is too good to be a relevant comparison. Someone like Anthony Tolliver has made a nice living because he is fairly big and can shoot the 3.

Sluggo
concordtom
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Or maybe we should just say that Rabb was WAAAAY overrated in high school and be done with it.
That set up a whole series of unnecessary chapters of discussion about why he wasn't performing better.
BeachedBear
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I don't know that Rabb was over rated in HS, he pretty much dominated. He was also pretty good, but not dominant in college. IMHO, that's due to a combination of coaching scheme AND difference in D1 game vs HS. As a Pro, he really wasn't prepared for the modern game, like Sluggo points out (although I think his style fits better with Grizzlies than other teams).

But perhaps CT's point about overrated - may refer to his NBA value. People see a rating or number for HS performance and compare it to NBA potential.

3 pt shooting and defense CAN be improved, so his career is far from washed up. It's not like asking Shaq to drop 70 lbs or Mugsy to grow 8 inches. Rabb seems to be willing to put in the time and effort to improve - so I'm bullish on Rabb. Barring injury, I see him with a long and lucrative NBA career, but probably not an all-star.
KoreAmBear
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For his sake, I wish he would have left a year early to at least get paid more than he's getting.
concordtom
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KoreAmBear said:

For his sake, I wish he would have left a year early to at least get paid more than he's getting.
Good point.

I recall many decades ago my dad was criticizing some athlete for not having completed college - like he was a bum for just "taking the money" and not being respectful toward his obligation to the university and his own education.

That is so different than the way folks see it today.

Jobs, Gates, Zuckerberg all left college early because they were ready for what was coming next.

And in Rabb's case, if you've trained for years to make a basketball salary, you've got to strike while the iron it hot. Like a female gymnast whose prime peaks long before any college graduation.

Perhaps Rabb merely thought that he could improve his draft ranking by staying a second year vs what he was hearing as a whisper projection pre-draft after his first year. Maybe he bet on himself, and it backfired. It's been known to happen.
GoCalBears
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SFCityBear
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KoreAmBear said:

For his sake, I wish he would have left a year early to at least get paid more than he's getting.
I don't disagree with you, but also for his sake, he might have done better to attend a school with a good coach, a coach with a reputation for developing big men, and play a couple of years for him. I'm glad Rabb came to Cal, but I was not pleased with the way Martin played him. I saw very little improvement in Rabb in his time at Cal.
KoreAmBear
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It was probably a bit much if I painted a picture that Ivan is panhandling on Telegraph or something.

Dude still makes more than most of us.

https://hoopshype.com/player/ivan-rabb/salary/

sluggo
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BeachedBear said:

I don't know that Rabb was over rated in HS, he pretty much dominated. He was also pretty good, but not dominant in college. IMHO, that's due to a combination of coaching scheme AND difference in D1 game vs HS. As a Pro, he really wasn't prepared for the modern game, like Sluggo points out (although I think his style fits better with Grizzlies than other teams).

But perhaps CT's point about overrated - may refer to his NBA value. People see a rating or number for HS performance and compare it to NBA potential.

3 pt shooting and defense CAN be improved, so his career is far from washed up. It's not like asking Shaq to drop 70 lbs or Mugsy to grow 8 inches. Rabb seems to be willing to put in the time and effort to improve - so I'm bullish on Rabb. Barring injury, I see him with a long and lucrative NBA career, but probably not an all-star.
The Grizzlies are not the Grizzlies any more without Zach Randolph. Agreed that he was not overrated, he really was great in high school, but as the requirements changed for college and the NBA he was not really adaptable. I disagree about his defense. He never had the quick jumping ability needed to guard the rim. Nor does he have the lateral quickness to guard the perimeter like say Kevon Looney. And he has not kept on weight, though I am sure he tried. He is physically limited and therefore defensively limited. That is why becoming a shooter has appeal.

Probably not an all-star? I say probably not a second contract. He is a third teamer right now. But undoubtedly he can make a good living somewhere for many years. And then he can come back to Cal for that magical degree.

Sluggo
bearmanpg
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I would say 13.2 pts and 9.5 rbs per game for his career at Cal...not bad for a true freshman and soph years...He may not match up to the pro game these days but he was never over-rated as a HS or College player....I am a fan of Ivan and always will be...I wish him the best of luck in a very cruel industry....
bearister
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Conclusion: He will retire after a 10+ year in the NBA while still a young man, with very few injuries and having made several million dollars just like Sean Marks. Except he will make several more million than Sean did. I'd take that. Interesting article breaking him down, however.
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gobears
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concordtom said:

Or maybe we should just say that Rabb was WAAAAY overrated in high school and be done with it.
That set up a whole series of unnecessary chapters of discussion about why he wasn't performing better.

CT,
do you feel Ivan was way overrated as HS Sr???

I for one feel he was one of the top HS Seniors in the nation at Dowd
as a HS 4/5, great hands, best off hand as a big of any HS 4/5.... excellent balance in the paint...

what exactly do you feel he was not one of the best HS Sr in terms of his skills as a "big" back then?

Fast forward to 2018, he is in the NBA that only about 500 people in the world can state that., making 1.4 mil per year...

goBears
concordtom
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gobears said:

concordtom said:

Or maybe we should just say that Rabb was WAAAAY overrated in high school and be done with it.
That set up a whole series of unnecessary chapters of discussion about why he wasn't performing better.

CT,
1. do you feel Ivan was way overrated as HS Sr???

I for one feel he was one of the top HS Seniors in the nation at Dowd
as a HS 4/5, great hands, best off hand as a big of any HS 5.... excellent balance in the paint...

2. why exactly do you feel he was not one of the best HS Sr in terms of his skills as a "big" back then?

3. Fast forward to 2018, he is in the NBA that only about 500 people in the world can state that., making 1.4 mil per year...

goBears

1. I have no idea, I do not rate HS basketball players. I was supposing he was bc everyone thought he was automatic 1&done onto NBA millions.

2. Why was he not? Because he didn't pan out as suspected.

3. Hahaha. Okay. You got me. Point made.

I suppose it's best to say:
1. Ratings for HS may be based on various things- whether best right now? Or project to be best in future? How do we know?
2. Ratings are imperfect science.
3. 2 out of 3 ain't bad. Neither is 1 out of 500!

Touch.
mikecohen
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FWIW: My opinion: People are overlooking Raab's super-intelligence. His general style and skillset have not been fitting that well into at least the Grizzley's structure. He will, one way or the other, figure out how to make his unique set work in the League, either by finding the right team/coach, or by, as he gets a grasp on things, changing the game to accommodate the things he does well which others do not - always remembering Yogi Berra's famous warning that predictions are tough - especially when they are about the future.
south bender
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Thanks, Mike, for reminding me of the great Yogi's verbal gifts!

Any one of his aphorisms invariably brightens my day!
mikecohen
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south bender said:

Thanks, Mike, for reminding me of the great Yogi's verbal gifts!

Any one of his aphorisms invariably brightens my day!
When you come to a fork in the road . . . . Take it.
bearister
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mikecohen said:

south bender said:

Thanks, Mike, for reminding me of the great Yogi's verbal gifts!

Any one of his aphorisms invariably brightens my day!
When you come to a fork in the road . . . . Take it.


"Baseball is ninety percent mental and the other half is physical."
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mikecohen
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bearister said:

mikecohen said:

south bender said:

Thanks, Mike, for reminding me of the great Yogi's verbal gifts!

Any one of his aphorisms invariably brightens my day!
When you come to a fork in the road . . . . Take it.


"Baseball is ninety percent mental and the other half is physical."
If the world was perfect, it wouldn't be
bluesaxe
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Yogi Bear said:

sluggo said:

Here is an article describing why Ivan Rabb is just barely in the NBA. As I have argued, he is the right guy in the wrong era. I think the author does a good job making this point. While the author says Rabb needs to get stronger and shoot 3s, I think he would be fine if he could improve on either.

https://www.grizzlybearblues.com/2018/8/31/17803292/ivan-rabb-right-player-wrong-era-memphis-grizzlies-big-man-basketball-marc-gasol-nba

Sluggo
Shooting 3's is overrated for big men. What decides which big men play more than anything else is how well they defend and how well they can perform being switched onto smaller players in the pick and roll. Rabb has always been a plus rebounder, but he was never a great defender in college and probably still struggling in that area in the pros. The more his defense improves, the more he'll play.

Marc Gasol was NBA Defensive Player of the Year once. That had a bigger impact on his minutes than his late developing three point shot.
Bigs who can shoot threes are a valuable commodity if they aren't total liabilities elsewhere (see e.g. Ryan Anderson) but you don't have to shoot threes to space the floor. If Rabb continues to shoot 48% on shots from 10-16 feet he'll force his defender out of the paint enough for some systems. He's also a pretty good passer and a smart player. The Grizzlies have never had a very creative offensive system and have tended to play slow, so there are other teams where he might fit better. Strength and lateral quickness will be the big issues for him.

IMO the author's assumption that since he has a nice mid-range shot he can just shoot threes and make them too is pretty ridiculous. Ask Shawn Livingston or David West about that. However, Rabb did not have a very good mid-range shot in college so it's certainly possible he could extend further eventually. But yeah, if he can improve defensively, remain a solid rebounder, and shoot well from 15 feet he'll stick around the league for a long time.
Civil Bear
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bluesaxe said:



Bigs who can shoot threes are a valuable commodity if they aren't total liabilities elsewhere (see e.g. Ryan Anderson) but you don't have to shoot threes to space the floor. If Rabb continues to shoot 48% on shots from 10-16 feet he'll force his defender out of the paint enough for some systems. He's also a pretty good passer and a smart player. The Grizzlies have never had a very creative offensive system and have tended to play slow, so there are other teams where he might fit better. Strength and lateral quickness will be the big issues for him.
This may be sacrilegious, but I never really saw much of this while he was at Cal to rate him better than average in these areas. For instance, comparing in head-to-head matchups against Kuzma at Utah were telling, and I don't recall him making the players around him particularly better.
south bender
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Am with CB's comments about Rabb, when he was overmatched by Kuzma.

Not to speak of Jordan Bell's utter annihilation of Ivan head to head.
SFCityBear
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Civil Bear said:

bluesaxe said:



Bigs who can shoot threes are a valuable commodity if they aren't total liabilities elsewhere (see e.g. Ryan Anderson) but you don't have to shoot threes to space the floor. If Rabb continues to shoot 48% on shots from 10-16 feet he'll force his defender out of the paint enough for some systems. He's also a pretty good passer and a smart player. The Grizzlies have never had a very creative offensive system and have tended to play slow, so there are other teams where he might fit better. Strength and lateral quickness will be the big issues for him.
This may be sacrilegious, but I never really saw much of this while he was at Cal to rate him better than average in these areas. For instance, comparing in head-to-head matchups against Kuzma at Utah were telling, and I don't recall him making the players around him particularly better.
If you'll let me join the ranks of the sacrilegious, I'd like to second this and agree with you. I had great hopes for Rabb, when I saw him pass the ball in his first few games at Cal. As time went on, he seldom passed to an open man, even when double-teamed. Much of this may have been due to Counzo's offense, where players were encouraged not to look for open men, but to make a play themselves, either taking it to the rim or shooting a three. Players seldom worked to get open in Cuonzo's offense, or so it seemed. And maybe in defense of Rabb, the players who should have been open when Rabb was double-teamed, Okoroh or Rooks, both were very slow and had butterfingers when it came to catching passes. But if Rabb was smart and a good passer, then he should have been able to find an open player and passed him the ball. And we seldom saw it.

I think Rabb would have been better playing with a legitimate point guard, in a relatively unselfish offense with a good coach. I suspect what might have made him a better player at Bishop O'Dowd was that Paris Austin fed him the ball when he got open, and he did not have that at Cal.

As to his matchup with Kuzma, one of Rabb's big deficiencies was his inability to close out on his man when the man went out to shoot a three. Whether it was slow reflexes or slow feet, I don't know. And as to bluesaxe's comment about the Grizzlies slow style of play not being good for Rabb, I can't remember seeing Rabb quickly get out on a fast break at Cal. Maybe that was due to knowing he wouldn't get the ball even if he tried to get up the floor. We just weren't a passing team in those days. But it seems more likely he just wasn't very fast.






sheki
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All he needs to do is to get traded to the Lakers. Neither the bigs or smalls are expected to make 3s.
caltagjohnson
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Rabb was what he was and is what he is. The coach neither made him better or worse. I saw all the home games from down close. He spent a lot of time on the bench because he could not guard without fouling. Maybe it was the fault of Pac 12 offiiciating. If he remains a backup, and has a good (and honest) financial guy he will come out fine.
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