Update: Winston and McCullogh

3,786 Views | 14 Replies | Last: 5 yr ago by HoopDreams
SFCityBear
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Last weekend, in the CCSF Tip-off Tournament, CCSF knocked off Alameda 124-100. Both Winston and McCullough were in the starting lineup for the Rams.

McCullough, scored 18 points on 6-10 shooting, 4-8 on threes, 2-2 on FTs, grabbed 3 rebounds, had an assist, a block, and 0 turnovers. McCullogh is now listed at 215 lbs (up from 197 lbs while on the Cal roster).

Winston scored 13 points on 4-8 shooting, 0-3 on threes, 5-5 on FTs, grabbed 5 rebounds, had 4 assists, 3 steals, and 0 turnovers. Winston is now listed at 6'-4" (up from 6'-2" while on the Cal roster).

CCSF went on to beat Fresno City College 79-70 in the semi-final game of the tournament, and then beat Arizona Western in the Final, 72-59. That was three games in three straight nights. No box scores are available yet for those last two games.

Either the JC competition is much worse than I thought it would be, or these two players have made a great deal of improvement under the fabulous Justin Labagh, CCSF coach and former Cal player.

If the Cal season goes south, or even if it doesn't, I will attempt at some point to go see CCSF in person and report further on the former Bears, Winston and McCullogh, just for kicks.






Big C
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Well, I always thought Winston, if he worked his tail off, could become a serviceable back-up point guard at our level. And McCullough, if he could get his shot to drop, maybe could get a few minutes as a back-up 2-3.

If their sticking around Cal too long cost us any recruits, due to the time frame (and it might well have), then the heck with them for that, but otherwise, all parties are moving on. The guys taking their spots on our roster are better, by all reports.

I await future reports about their accomplishments with mild interest.
SFCityBear
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Big C said:

Well, I always thought Winston, if he worked his tail off, could become a serviceable back-up point guard at our level. And McCullough, if he could get his shot to drop, maybe could get a few minutes as a back-up 2-3.

If their sticking around Cal too long cost us any recruits, due to the time frame (and it might well have), then the heck with them for that, but otherwise, all parties are moving on. The guys taking their spots on our roster are better, by all reports.

I await future reports about their accomplishments with mild interest.
Quite frankly, I never was impressed by either one as basketball players. Oh, Winston had a good mixtape, as I remember, but who doesn't have a good mixtape? JHD had played with or against Winston, and said he liked Winston. As the season wore on, I came to see that JHD couldn't dribble very well, and neither could Winston. Winston dribbled out so far in front of him, it was like handing the ball to the defender on a platter.

I could never find tape on McCullough. Reputed to be a long range shooter, but at Cal, he hardly ever took a shot, even when he was open. And he was too slow to cover anyone on defense. Why he has put on nearly 20 more pounds now is odd, unless CCSF has him playing up front.

I never understood the scholarship situation. Weren't both players informed during recruiting what would happen to their scholarship if they failed to make the team or stay on it? It seems to me that once a coach cans a player, don't they lose their athletic scholarship? If the coach arranges to get the player some kind of academic or other scholarship, so they can stay at Cal, isn't that between Cal and the former player and not also governed by the NCAA? I don't understand why the player, once they have been dumped, owes the coach or the school anything more related to basketball.

I will be interested to see what these players become under Labagh, to see if he can coach them up to being able to play at D1 level by the time they graduate from CCSF. Labagh doesn't have much time to work with, just one season, so it may not be likely. I was one who felt Labagh should have gotten some consideration for the Cal Head Coach job. Nothing has happened yet to change my mind.





UrsaMajor
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SFCityBear said:

Big C said:

Well, I always thought Winston, if he worked his tail off, could become a serviceable back-up point guard at our level. And McCullough, if he could get his shot to drop, maybe could get a few minutes as a back-up 2-3.

If their sticking around Cal too long cost us any recruits, due to the time frame (and it might well have), then the heck with them for that, but otherwise, all parties are moving on. The guys taking their spots on our roster are better, by all reports.

I await future reports about their accomplishments with mild interest.
Quite frankly, I never was impressed by either one as basketball players. Oh, Winston had a good mixtape, as I remember, but who doesn't have a good mixtape? JHD had played with or against Winston, and said he liked Winston. As the season wore on, I came to see that JHD couldn't dribble very well, and neither could Winston. Winston dribbled out so far in front of him, it was like handing the ball to the defender on a platter.

I could never find tape on McCullough. Reputed to be a long range shooter, but at Cal, he hardly ever took a shot, even when he was open. And he was too slow to cover anyone on defense. Why he has put on nearly 20 more pounds now is odd, unless CCSF has him playing up front.

I never understood the scholarship situation. Weren't both players informed during recruiting what would happen to their scholarship if they failed to make the team or stay on it? It seems to me that once a coach cans a player, don't they lose their athletic scholarship? If the coach arranges to get the player some kind of academic or other scholarship, so they can stay at Cal, isn't that between Cal and the former player and not also governed by the NCAA? I don't understand why the player, once they have been dumped, owes the coach or the school anything more related to basketball.

I will be interested to see what these players become under Labagh, to see if he can coach them up to being able to play at D1 level by the time they graduate from CCSF. Labagh doesn't have much time to work with, just one season, so it may not be likely. I was one who felt Labagh should have gotten some consideration for the Cal Head Coach job. Nothing has happened yet to change my mind.






No. A few years ago, the P-12 instituted a rule that all athletic scholarships were guaranteed for 4 years.
SFCityBear
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UrsaMajor said:

SFCityBear said:

Big C said:

Well, I always thought Winston, if he worked his tail off, could become a serviceable back-up point guard at our level. And McCullough, if he could get his shot to drop, maybe could get a few minutes as a back-up 2-3.

If their sticking around Cal too long cost us any recruits, due to the time frame (and it might well have), then the heck with them for that, but otherwise, all parties are moving on. The guys taking their spots on our roster are better, by all reports.

I await future reports about their accomplishments with mild interest.
Quite frankly, I never was impressed by either one as basketball players. Oh, Winston had a good mixtape, as I remember, but who doesn't have a good mixtape? JHD had played with or against Winston, and said he liked Winston. As the season wore on, I came to see that JHD couldn't dribble very well, and neither could Winston. Winston dribbled out so far in front of him, it was like handing the ball to the defender on a platter.

I could never find tape on McCullough. Reputed to be a long range shooter, but at Cal, he hardly ever took a shot, even when he was open. And he was too slow to cover anyone on defense. Why he has put on nearly 20 more pounds now is odd, unless CCSF has him playing up front.

I never understood the scholarship situation. Weren't both players informed during recruiting what would happen to their scholarship if they failed to make the team or stay on it? It seems to me that once a coach cans a player, don't they lose their athletic scholarship? If the coach arranges to get the player some kind of academic or other scholarship, so they can stay at Cal, isn't that between Cal and the former player and not also governed by the NCAA? I don't understand why the player, once they have been dumped, owes the coach or the school anything more related to basketball.

I will be interested to see what these players become under Labagh, to see if he can coach them up to being able to play at D1 level by the time they graduate from CCSF. Labagh doesn't have much time to work with, just one season, so it may not be likely. I was one who felt Labagh should have gotten some consideration for the Cal Head Coach job. Nothing has happened yet to change my mind.






No. A few years ago, the P-12 instituted a rule that all athletic scholarships were guaranteed for 4 years.
So the problem was that the players either did not make up their minds fast enough whether to stay or transfer, or didn't get accepted fast enough at a new institution, to allow Jones time to use their scholarships for this season? Did he lose any prospects because of the delay?
Big C
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SFCityBear said:

UrsaMajor said:

SFCityBear said:

Big C said:

Well, I always thought Winston, if he worked his tail off, could become a serviceable back-up point guard at our level. And McCullough, if he could get his shot to drop, maybe could get a few minutes as a back-up 2-3.

If their sticking around Cal too long cost us any recruits, due to the time frame (and it might well have), then the heck with them for that, but otherwise, all parties are moving on. The guys taking their spots on our roster are better, by all reports.

I await future reports about their accomplishments with mild interest.
Quite frankly, I never was impressed by either one as basketball players. Oh, Winston had a good mixtape, as I remember, but who doesn't have a good mixtape? JHD had played with or against Winston, and said he liked Winston. As the season wore on, I came to see that JHD couldn't dribble very well, and neither could Winston. Winston dribbled out so far in front of him, it was like handing the ball to the defender on a platter.

I could never find tape on McCullough. Reputed to be a long range shooter, but at Cal, he hardly ever took a shot, even when he was open. And he was too slow to cover anyone on defense. Why he has put on nearly 20 more pounds now is odd, unless CCSF has him playing up front.

I never understood the scholarship situation. Weren't both players informed during recruiting what would happen to their scholarship if they failed to make the team or stay on it? It seems to me that once a coach cans a player, don't they lose their athletic scholarship? If the coach arranges to get the player some kind of academic or other scholarship, so they can stay at Cal, isn't that between Cal and the former player and not also governed by the NCAA? I don't understand why the player, once they have been dumped, owes the coach or the school anything more related to basketball.

I will be interested to see what these players become under Labagh, to see if he can coach them up to being able to play at D1 level by the time they graduate from CCSF. Labagh doesn't have much time to work with, just one season, so it may not be likely. I was one who felt Labagh should have gotten some consideration for the Cal Head Coach job. Nothing has happened yet to change my mind.






No. A few years ago, the P-12 instituted a rule that all athletic scholarships were guaranteed for 4 years.
So the problem was that the players either did not make up their minds fast enough whether to stay or transfer, or didn't get accepted fast enough at a new institution, to allow Jones time to use their scholarships for this season? Did he lose any prospects because of the delay?
Since they weren't very good (plus Winston's dad was kind of a pain), it was hard for them to find another school to offer them a schollie. Rumor had it, too, that they dragged their feet in order to stick it to us.

We had one scholarship that we were holding open for Jordan Brown, but if we had known we had the other two open, maybe we could've gotten some others and, supposedly, Brown would've been more likely to come if he knew he was part of a more stellar class, especially if we could've landed that "mystery grad-transfer", who Brown would've paired well with in the front court.
concernedparent
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Quote:



Either the JC competition is much worse than I thought it would be, or these two players have made a great deal of improvement under the fabulous Justin Labagh, CCSF coach and former Cal player.







These guys were D1 recruits, and not just by Cal. They're incredible basketball players in the grand scheme of things; they're just not good enough for this level. Plus they've had a year practicing against high major type players. If they aren't starting in JC and putting up respectable numbers something is very, very wrong.
calumnus
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SFCityBear said:

Last weekend, in the CCSF Tip-off Tournament, CCSF knocked off Alameda 124-100. Both Winston and McCullough were in the starting lineup for the Rams.

McCullough, scored 18 points on 6-10 shooting, 4-8 on threes, 2-2 on FTs, grabbed 3 rebounds, had an assist, a block, and 0 turnovers. McCullogh is now listed at 215 lbs (up from 197 lbs while on the Cal roster).

Winston scored 13 points on 4-8 shooting, 0-3 on threes, 5-5 on FTs, grabbed 5 rebounds, had 4 assists, 3 steals, and 0 turnovers. Winston is now listed at 6'-4" (up from 6'-2" while on the Cal roster).

CCSF went on to beat Fresno City College 79-70 in the semi-final game of the tournament, and then beat Arizona Western in the Final, 72-59. That was three games in three straight nights. No box scores are available yet for those last two games.

Either the JC competition is much worse than I thought it would be, or these two players have made a great deal of improvement under the fabulous Justin Labagh, CCSF coach and former Cal player.

If the Cal season goes south, or even if it doesn't, I will attempt at some point to go see CCSF in person and report further on the former Bears, Winston and McCullogh, just for kicks.




McCullogh's 4-8 from 3 is excellent. Interesting to see if he keeps it up. That kind of shooting was badly needed on last year's team (we were 349 out of 351 teams in 3 pt shooting) and probably this year's team as well.
SFCityBear
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calumnus said:

SFCityBear said:

Last weekend, in the CCSF Tip-off Tournament, CCSF knocked off Alameda 124-100. Both Winston and McCullough were in the starting lineup for the Rams.

McCullough, scored 18 points on 6-10 shooting, 4-8 on threes, 2-2 on FTs, grabbed 3 rebounds, had an assist, a block, and 0 turnovers. McCullogh is now listed at 215 lbs (up from 197 lbs while on the Cal roster).

Winston scored 13 points on 4-8 shooting, 0-3 on threes, 5-5 on FTs, grabbed 5 rebounds, had 4 assists, 3 steals, and 0 turnovers. Winston is now listed at 6'-4" (up from 6'-2" while on the Cal roster).

CCSF went on to beat Fresno City College 79-70 in the semi-final game of the tournament, and then beat Arizona Western in the Final, 72-59. That was three games in three straight nights. No box scores are available yet for those last two games.

Either the JC competition is much worse than I thought it would be, or these two players have made a great deal of improvement under the fabulous Justin Labagh, CCSF coach and former Cal player.

If the Cal season goes south, or even if it doesn't, I will attempt at some point to go see CCSF in person and report further on the former Bears, Winston and McCullogh, just for kicks.




McCullogh's 4-8 from 3 is excellent. Interesting to see if he keeps it up. That kind of shooting was badly needed on last year's team (we were 349 out of 351 teams in 3 pt shooting) and probably this year's team as well.

We are not likely to shoot the lights out from three point range this year, but we should be better, simply because we are replacing some very poor shooters like Coleman (0.243), Hamilton (0.286), Winston (0.174), and McCullough (0.000). Winston and McCullough did not play much, but Coleman especially did take a lot of threes and was awful at it. These players will be replaced by Bradley, Gordon, Kelly, and Austin. Austin is not likely to be a good three point shooter, but the others are reputed to be able to make some threes. I don't expect any of them to be as bad at threes as Coleman, Hamilton or Winston.

Any improvement by average shooters like Sueing, McNeil, and a poor shooter like JHD would be icing on the cake. I am interested to see if McNeill can get back to the form he had in the first half of the season, and sustain it for a whole season. He has the potential.

The best perimeter shooter in the incoming group is reputed to be Vanover, and that would add another dimension for a few minutes a game, as one would have to go back to maybe David Kravish to find a Cal center who could shoot well beyond 3 feet from the basket, and I may be wrong, but I can't remember one who could make threes at all.

Not only was Cal a poor three-point shooting team last season, but we were a poor two-point shooting team last season, averaging only 0.450 on twos, ranked #330 out of 351 teams. Over all Cal averaged 0.406 FG%, ranked #344 out of 351 teams, also a very poor result. Cal shot free throws at 0.675, ranked #301 out of 351 teams, also a poor record. So we need to do a whole lot more than shoot threes better. We need to find ways to free shooters up for open shots. We need way more teamwork on offense than we had last season, more screens, more moving without the ball, and dare I say it, we need some plays. A full court press is great for creating easy buckets if you have the personnel. Otherwise, it is just a dream, and if we can't make it work, we better focus on developing a half-court offense that will play to our players' strengths, whether it is a three pointer, a mid-range shot, or a short shot in the paint.





BeachedBear
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calumnus said:

SFCityBear said:

Last weekend, in the CCSF Tip-off Tournament, CCSF knocked off Alameda 124-100. Both Winston and McCullough were in the starting lineup for the Rams.

McCullough, scored 18 points on 6-10 shooting, 4-8 on threes, 2-2 on FTs, grabbed 3 rebounds, had an assist, a block, and 0 turnovers. McCullogh is now listed at 215 lbs (up from 197 lbs while on the Cal roster).

Winston scored 13 points on 4-8 shooting, 0-3 on threes, 5-5 on FTs, grabbed 5 rebounds, had 4 assists, 3 steals, and 0 turnovers. Winston is now listed at 6'-4" (up from 6'-2" while on the Cal roster).

CCSF went on to beat Fresno City College 79-70 in the semi-final game of the tournament, and then beat Arizona Western in the Final, 72-59. That was three games in three straight nights. No box scores are available yet for those last two games.

Either the JC competition is much worse than I thought it would be, or these two players have made a great deal of improvement under the fabulous Justin Labagh, CCSF coach and former Cal player.

If the Cal season goes south, or even if it doesn't, I will attempt at some point to go see CCSF in person and report further on the former Bears, Winston and McCullogh, just for kicks.




McCullogh's 4-8 from 3 is excellent. Interesting to see if he keeps it up. That kind of shooting was badly needed on last year's team (we were 349 out of 351 teams in 3 pt shooting) and probably this year's team as well.
Happy to see they've landed in a good situation, but they may have landed a bit too low, if recent results are any indication. It is better to for developing players to play at a level AT or slightly above their own. Playing too high above their level, generally means they DON'T play. Such was the case for McC and Winston last season.

The problem with 3FG stats is that it usually doesn't break down by defense. There is a HUGE difference between perimeter defenses from high school to D2 and P5. The jump from D2 to P5 in speed and wingspan of defenders is incredible. Furthermore, most P5 programs (hopefully Cal, too) have 5 D1 level defenders on the court at once. That is not the case at lower levels.
UrsaMajor
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SFCityBear said:



Not only was Cal a poor three-point shooting team last season, but we were a poor two-point shooting team last season, averaging only 0.450 on twos, ranked #330 out of 351 teams. Over all Cal averaged 0.406 FG%, ranked #344 out of 351 teams, also a very poor result. Cal shot free throws at 0.675, ranked #301 out of 351 teams, also a poor record. So we need to do a whole lot more than shoot threes better. We need to find ways to free shooters up for open shots. We need way more teamwork on offense than we had last season, more screens, more moving without the ball, and dare I say it, we need some plays. A full court press is great for creating easy buckets if you have the personnel. Otherwise, it is just a dream, and if we can't make it work, we better focus on developing a half-court offense that will play to our players' strengths, whether it is a three pointer, a mid-range shot, or a short shot in the paint.






Probably easier to simply say Cal was a poor team last season.
SFCityBear
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UrsaMajor said:

SFCityBear said:



Not only was Cal a poor three-point shooting team last season, but we were a poor two-point shooting team last season, averaging only 0.450 on twos, ranked #330 out of 351 teams. Over all Cal averaged 0.406 FG%, ranked #344 out of 351 teams, also a very poor result. Cal shot free throws at 0.675, ranked #301 out of 351 teams, also a poor record. So we need to do a whole lot more than shoot threes better. We need to find ways to free shooters up for open shots. We need way more teamwork on offense than we had last season, more screens, more moving without the ball, and dare I say it, we need some plays. A full court press is great for creating easy buckets if you have the personnel. Otherwise, it is just a dream, and if we can't make it work, we better focus on developing a half-court offense that will play to our players' strengths, whether it is a three pointer, a mid-range shot, or a short shot in the paint.






Probably easier to simply say Cal was a poor team last season.
What I try to do here is say things that no one has said, rather than repeat something that pretty much everyone has said.
UrsaMajor
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SFCityBear said:

UrsaMajor said:

SFCityBear said:



Not only was Cal a poor three-point shooting team last season, but we were a poor two-point shooting team last season, averaging only 0.450 on twos, ranked #330 out of 351 teams. Over all Cal averaged 0.406 FG%, ranked #344 out of 351 teams, also a very poor result. Cal shot free throws at 0.675, ranked #301 out of 351 teams, also a poor record. So we need to do a whole lot more than shoot threes better. We need to find ways to free shooters up for open shots. We need way more teamwork on offense than we had last season, more screens, more moving without the ball, and dare I say it, we need some plays. A full court press is great for creating easy buckets if you have the personnel. Otherwise, it is just a dream, and if we can't make it work, we better focus on developing a half-court offense that will play to our players' strengths, whether it is a three pointer, a mid-range shot, or a short shot in the paint.






Probably easier to simply say Cal was a poor team last season.
What I try to do here is say things that no one has said, rather than repeat something that pretty much everyone has said.
I know, SFCity; just trying to make a (very) little joke...
SFCityBear
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UrsaMajor said:

SFCityBear said:

UrsaMajor said:

SFCityBear said:



Not only was Cal a poor three-point shooting team last season, but we were a poor two-point shooting team last season, averaging only 0.450 on twos, ranked #330 out of 351 teams. Over all Cal averaged 0.406 FG%, ranked #344 out of 351 teams, also a very poor result. Cal shot free throws at 0.675, ranked #301 out of 351 teams, also a poor record. So we need to do a whole lot more than shoot threes better. We need to find ways to free shooters up for open shots. We need way more teamwork on offense than we had last season, more screens, more moving without the ball, and dare I say it, we need some plays. A full court press is great for creating easy buckets if you have the personnel. Otherwise, it is just a dream, and if we can't make it work, we better focus on developing a half-court offense that will play to our players' strengths, whether it is a three pointer, a mid-range shot, or a short shot in the paint.






Probably easier to simply say Cal was a poor team last season.
What I try to do here is say things that no one has said, rather than repeat something that pretty much everyone has said.
I know, SFCity; just trying to make a (very) little joke...
I know, UrsaMajor. And I really do appreciate your efforts to keep me (and others) honest.
Chunger89
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Random, but I saw Austin on a MUNI bus on the way home on Tuesday. Didn't feel like asking him anything about his experience at Cal though.

However, it looks like he just received an offer from Southern Miss.

HoopDreams
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good for him

southern miss is a good team in a good conference (USA)

as I've said before he has good size. I don't think he's an elite shooter, but is probably better than his 0-10 shooting at Cal suggests.

again, my bigger concern was his horrible defense and lack of lateral quickness.

but southern miss saw something in him and I hope he succeeds

by the way, despite how it ended for him at Cal, he still wore Cal gear and came to Cal games. etc.

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