I'm calling out people who had written us off after only one game. I just used the word "people", instead of "fans", because who the hell would give up on their team after one game?

I went to the game tonight and had a good time watching the young Golden Bears. I'm guessing you didn't, or I would've seen you there... and I didn't see many people there.

Guess what, people:

SURE, WE MAY KINDA SUCK THIS YEAR, BUT PROBABLY NOT AS MUCH AS SOME OF YOU WERE SAYING!

AND NEXT YEAR, WE MIGHT HARDLY SUCK AT ALL!!! (Indeed, I'm thinking of having t-shirts made up.)

Okay, I "shouted" there, sorry. But really...

Go Bears! Dare to believe we can win a dozen games this year! Hell, even a "baker's dozen"!!

They beat HAMPTON. At home. By not really that convincing a performance.

It is a pretty cupcake pre-seaso but I expect the to enter Pac-12 play with at least 4 L's

Big C said:

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I'm calling out people who had written us off after only one game. I just used the word "people", instead of "fans", because who the hell would give up on their team after one game?

I went to the game tonight and had a good time watching the young Golden Bears. I'm guessing you didn't, or I would've seen you there... and I didn't see many people there.

Guess what, people:

SURE, WE MAY KINDA SUCK THIS YEAR, BUT PROBABLY NOT AS MUCH AS SOME OF YOU WERE SAYING!

AND NEXT YEAR, WE MIGHT HARDLY SUCK AT ALL!!! (Indeed, I'm thinking of having t-shirts made up.)

Okay, I "shouted" there, sorry. But really...

Go Bears! Dare to believe we can win a dozen games this year! Hell, even a "baker's dozen"!!

---

BigC, there is nothing wrong with calling it as you see it. The China game vs. Yale was not pretty in any respect. It gave little hope for any kind of a future this year. There is nothing unfair about so noting.

Now, last night was a horse of a very different color. There appeared in one week, HOPE. As you indicate, nothing great, but at least none of what we viewed against Yale. Aside the opposition, our players looked to be coached better and played better.

Hampton isn't all THAT bad. They were ranked in the low 200s preseason and made the NIT last season. Plus our team had to play them jet lagged thanks to the inane scheduling.

And I also didn't make any conclusions after the Yale game because there are so many variables when playing across the world even if it wasn't their first game with a bunch of new players.

I'll wait till the St. Mary's to get a decent gauge on this team.

My wife and I were there on Tuesday. The Bears were better than I expected. Solid first half. Poor start to the second half. Good finish. None of the gaffes we saw last year (I get the shakes when thinking about in-bounding the ball against Portland State...)

It was a good non-conference game by a young team. The team is entertaining. They played hard.

I look forward to the rest of the home schedule.

Couple Impressions from The Game:

-About 10 minutes before tipoff there were what seemed to be 500 people in the stands. It was SPARSE. I felt bad for the players. Once the game started, more people funneled in and the energy level rose and it ended up being a fun atmosphere. 1st half we sat in corner by Hampton bench. There might have been 20 students there. 2nd half sat across from Cal bench in chairbacks---couldn't see student section.

-Austin: We would be screwed without him. Our most important player last night. Great with the ball. Understands the importance of managing offense. Shot is a little awkward but it was going in. Amazed at his wingspan---must be at least 6'4, great attribute for defense.

-McNeil: Looks skinny to me. If he had a little more muscle I think he'd have some more confidence taking his man off the dribble. Although he had a decent game, you can tell he's still uncomfortable with the position.

-Bradley: He's a player. Made a couple freshman mistakes but that's fine. He belongs. He's fun to watch too. He has a presence out there---he doesn't take any s*** from anybody.

-Kelly had the play of the night. Showed excellent footwork on a post fake and got the defender in the air and turned for a nice jump hook. Beautiful. He should also be commended for playing smart and staying out of foul trouble.

-The team can shoot. Not saying they're a great shooting team but most of the players are capable of hitting outside shots. Free throws shouldn't be a problem this year.

The body of work is what counts.

I love our players. They deserve solid coaching. I'll leave it at that.

Big C said:

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I'm calling out people who had written us off after only one game. I just used the word "people", instead of "fans", because who the hell would give up on their team after one game?

I went to the game tonight and had a good time watching the young Golden Bears. I'm guessing you didn't, or I would've seen you there... and I didn't see many people there.

Guess what, people:

SURE, WE MAY KINDA SUCK THIS YEAR, BUT PROBABLY NOT AS MUCH AS SOME OF YOU WERE SAYING!

AND NEXT YEAR, WE MIGHT HARDLY SUCK AT ALL!!! (Indeed, I'm thinking of having t-shirts made up.)

Okay, I "shouted" there, sorry. But really...

Go Bears! Dare to believe we can win a dozen games this year! Hell, even a "baker's dozen"!!

---

Much better than Shanghai but the way the second half opened was daunting. I thought Austin played well but there were times he seemed predetermined to take it to the rim w/o regard to options. I think we have some pieces; whether Jones and staff can mold them into anything like success is an open question.

I disagree about Austin. He had many opportunities to kick the ball to a shooter and went one-on-everyone instead. He needs to facilitate more and go blindly into the paint less.

Tyrone Wallace Light.

Room for improvement: After 2 games Austin has 8 assists and Sueing has 6 but nobody else has more than 2.

BC Calfan said:

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-About 10 minutes before tipoff there were what seemed to be 500 people in the stands. It was SPARSE. I felt bad for the players.

---

About 15 minutes before the game I actually counted the house. You know--1,2,3,4... That kind of counting. With that "crowd" it was easy to do. Two hundred and five. That's right--TWO ZERO FIVE. Well at least that made it easy to sneak into the chair backs. Come on people, show up!

OdontoBear66 said:

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Big C said:

---

I'm calling out people who had written us off after only one game. I just used the word "people", instead of "fans", because who the hell would give up on their team after one game?

I went to the game tonight and had a good time watching the young Golden Bears. I'm guessing you didn't, or I would've seen you there... and I didn't see many people there.

Guess what, people:

SURE, WE MAY KINDA SUCK THIS YEAR, BUT PROBABLY NOT AS MUCH AS SOME OF YOU WERE SAYING!

AND NEXT YEAR, WE MIGHT HARDLY SUCK AT ALL!!! (Indeed, I'm thinking of having t-shirts made up.)

Okay, I "shouted" there, sorry. But really...

Go Bears! Dare to believe we can win a dozen games this year! Hell, even a "baker's dozen"!!

---

BigC, there is nothing wrong with calling it as you see it. The China game vs. Yale was not pretty in any respect. It gave little hope for any kind of a future this year. There is nothing unfair about so noting.

Now, last night was a horse of a very different color. There appeared in one week, HOPE. As you indicate, nothing great, but at least none of what we viewed against Yale. Aside the opposition, our players looked to be coached better and played better.

---

To me, there is a huge difference between saying, "We were horrible against Yale. This might be another long year." and saying "We were horrible against Yale and we'll be horrible the entire season and I'm not going to games anymore and fire the coach."

JimSox said:

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..Well at least that made it easy to sneak into the chair backs. Come on people, show up!

---

It would be very demeaning to this battle hardened Oakland raised pensioner to be caught in a chairback and shown the aisle like a common vagrant by a corpulent, ruddy complected, soft handed, lip curling Piedmontian.

Watch out for Gordon. Slink in after half time.

There is a difference between "so noting" a poor performance and "This team sucks!" , "Fire Wyking Jones" and "I'm done with this team", but you probably knew that and were just minimizing the vitriol after Yale so that you could feel better about your own personal overreaction. Yale was a decent team and we played poorly. No excuses. Hampton is an OK team and we played better. Had we played that way both games, we would probably have won both. Wyking clearly used the Yale game as a teaching moment and the players reacted well.

So the idea was to lise the game. Brilliant.

Californication said:

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There is a difference between "so noting" a poor performance and "This team sucks!" , "Fire Wyking Jones" and "I'm done with this team", but you probably knew that and were just minimizing the vitriol after Yale so that you could feel better about your own personal overreaction. Yale was a decent team and we played poorly. No excuses. Hampton is an OK team and we played better. Had we played that way both games, we would probably have won both. Wyking clearly used the Yale game as a teaching moment and the players reacted well.

---

You know I left it alone after BigC's retort, but a few fans went to "This team sucks" etc., but most noted how poorly the team played vs. Yale. So BigC calls them "people" not "fans". Got it, a lot of us see what we see and call it out. I went to bed early near the end of the first half of the Yale game for it looked like nothing but an extension of last year. And it apparently went that way in the second half as the gap was never closed at all from the game line.

In the Hampton game, no matter how much weaker they are, our team looked much better. Played better, coached better, but still has a hard road ahead. Looking for game by game improvement, but not expecting the moon. And we saw that vs. Hampton, as we will probably see more of it against Detroit Mercy. I have no great expectation for number of wins this year, but hope to see us improve individually and as a team as the season unfolds. It sounds like the recruiting bodes well for the future, so there is hope.

I'm against attacking individual players (like the Brandon McIlwain thread on the FB board), but I do feel it is fair game to talk about his TOs and wanting to have Garbers play full time. Maybe Big C thinks a fan should not mention negatives along with positives about his team. When your team plays poorly how else do you describe it or does "the fan" just shut up? It is what it is.

This is a young team with exciting potential, as we saw against Hampton. As a young team, they will have growing pains and bad games, like Yale.

I was happy to see them respond to Hampton's hot start to 2nd half. The Pirates closed to 5 down I believe, but at a point when previous teams would have crumbled and lost by10, this team recovered and pushed their advantage back to double digits.

A seemingly likable bunch of players with good/very good potential AND they seem to get along and have each other's back!

They're going to win a couple of games they shouldn't, but they will also get some beatings from more experienced and talented teams. It's going to come down to coaching. Too early to come to any conclusions but early results are promising.

3 new players, Austin, Bradley and Kelly scored 48 points. Last year's team would have lost to Hampton. At Boise State Austin was actually more of a scorng PG rather a pass first PG. He did a decent job of distriubting the ball las night. If he has a clear path to the basket, he is going. If he makes a good percentage or gets fouled. I see nothing wrong with that,

OdontoBear66 said:

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I'm against attacking individual players (like the Brandon McIlwain thread on the FB board), but I do feel it is fair game to talk about his TOs and wanting to have Garbers play full time. Maybe Big C thinks a fan should not mention negatives along with positives about his team. When your team plays poorly how else do you describe it or does "the fan" just shut up? It is what it is.

---

Maybe Big C wants to revoke our press passes, for asking questions that he didn't think were respectful.

Sorry . . . couldn't resist pointing out the obvious similarities. Big C posts with a passion, that I find contagious and I actually sort of agree with him. But IMHO, its more a reflection of the program, not the fans. When things are going well, it is usually fan vs trolls on BI. When things are NOT going well, it becomes fans vs people.

BeachedBear said:

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OdontoBear66 said:

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I'm against attacking individual players (like the Brandon McIlwain thread on the FB board), but I do feel it is fair game to talk about his TOs and wanting to have Garbers play full time. Maybe Big C thinks a fan should not mention negatives along with positives about his team. When your team plays poorly how else do you describe it or does "the fan" just shut up? It is what it is.

---

Maybe Big C wants to revoke our press passes, for asking questions that he didn't think were respectful.

Sorry . . . couldn't resist pointing out the obvious similarities. Big C posts with a passion, that I find contagious and I actually sort of agree with him. But IMHO, its more a reflection of the program, not the fans. When things are going well, it is usually fan vs trolls on BI. When things are NOT going well, it becomes fans vs people.

---

Dear BeachedBear and also OdontoBear66:

I enjoy and respect your posts here. I see no problem with criticizing our teams' play, or even the play of individual players (as long as it doesn't get personal or insulting). To me, it is a question of language and of timing. For example, the day of a losing football game (and somewhat into the next day), somebody might write something fueled by frustration that might be okay then, but should be reworded after some time to reflect.

Regarding the basketball program, one poster has been way over the top and a few others have been what I would call "consistently, overly negative". But that is their right. It doesn't bother me that they write that here. We can all discuss it and work things out. While I did refer to some as "people, not fans", that was also posted on a game night, in some frustration. They are fans. They care. I get it.

I'll tell you what bothers me: Writing off the whole season or saying we need to fire the coach AFTER ONLY ONE GAME. I am a season-ticket holder and I just don't want to go THAT negative, THAT early. Criticize the play, the players, the coaching, sure, but don't write off the season (or the program) so early. (Yes, I know about last year. Believe me, I know.)

Wyking Jones and his staff seem to be making steady progress in recruiting, bringing in a steady flow of "Pac 12 quality" players to restock a roster that was depleted. Because of this, I'm willing to give him some time. On court, my expectation is that we are at least a little better than last year. Next year, we will have to be significantly better, maybe around .500 in conference. To me, the point at which we need to go in a new direction is when we reach a plateau, and it is a low one.

Go Bears! Show no mercy on Detroit... and Beat Stanfurd!

Big C said:

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BeachedBear said:

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OdontoBear66 said:

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I'm against attacking individual players (like the Brandon McIlwain thread on the FB board), but I do feel it is fair game to talk about his TOs and wanting to have Garbers play full time. Maybe Big C thinks a fan should not mention negatives along with positives about his team. When your team plays poorly how else do you describe it or does "the fan" just shut up? It is what it is.

---

Maybe Big C wants to revoke our press passes, for asking questions that he didn't think were respectful.

Sorry . . . couldn't resist pointing out the obvious similarities. Big C posts with a passion, that I find contagious and I actually sort of agree with him. But IMHO, its more a reflection of the program, not the fans. When things are going well, it is usually fan vs trolls on BI. When things are NOT going well, it becomes fans vs people.

---

Dear BeachedBear and also OdontoBear66:

I enjoy and respect your posts here. I see no problem with criticizing our teams' play, or even the play of individual players (as long as it doesn't get personal or insulting). To me, it is a question of language and of timing. For example, the day of a losing football game (and somewhat into the next day), somebody might write something fueled by frustration that might be okay then, but should be reworded after some time to reflect.

Regarding the basketball program, one poster has been way over the top and a few others have been what I would call "consistently, overly negative". But that is their right. It doesn't bother me that they write that here. We can all discuss it and work things out. While I did refer to some as "people, not fans", that was also posted on a game night, in some frustration. They are fans. They care. I get it.

I'll tell you what bothers me: Writing off the whole season or saying we need to fire the coach AFTER ONLY ONE GAME. I am a season-ticket holder and I just don't want to go THAT negative, THAT early. Criticize the play, the players, the coaching, sure, but don't write off the season (or the program) so early. (Yes, I know about last year. Believe me, I know.)

Wyking Jones and his staff seem to be making steady progress in recruiting, bringing in a steady flow of "Pac 12 quality" players to restock a roster that was depleted. Because of this, I'm willing to give him some time. On court, my expectation is that we are at least a little better than last year. Next year, we will have to be significantly better, maybe around .500 in conference. To me, the point at which we need to go in a new direction is when we reach a plateau, and it is a low one.

Go Bears! Show no mercy on Detroit... and Beat Stanfurd!

---

Not much that I don't agree with here. But I would be a bit more careful criticizing the players than the coaches. One are student athletes, the others are paid big bucks. But even with that "noting" mistakes is plainly open game.

But I would prefer that teams and players as well as coaches improved as the season went on. That is the best of all worlds. Look at FB right now. After working out some player/coach glitches that led to unnecessary losses we are on the right course. Let it continue. And yes, with the Hampton win, things looked better. We need one or two more recruiting cycles for the big jump, but things are looking good thru the windshield.

edit: BTW, Cheers

Big C said:

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BeachedBear said:

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OdontoBear66 said:

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I'm against attacking individual players (like the Brandon McIlwain thread on the FB board), but I do feel it is fair game to talk about his TOs and wanting to have Garbers play full time. Maybe Big C thinks a fan should not mention negatives along with positives about his team. When your team plays poorly how else do you describe it or does "the fan" just shut up? It is what it is.

---

Maybe Big C wants to revoke our press passes, for asking questions that he didn't think were respectful.

Sorry . . . couldn't resist pointing out the obvious similarities. Big C posts with a passion, that I find contagious and I actually sort of agree with him. But IMHO, its more a reflection of the program, not the fans. When things are going well, it is usually fan vs trolls on BI. When things are NOT going well, it becomes fans vs people.

---

Dear BeachedBear and also OdontoBear66:

I enjoy and respect your posts here. I see no problem with criticizing our teams' play, or even the play of individual players (as long as it doesn't get personal or insulting). To me, it is a question of language and of timing. For example, the day of a losing football game (and somewhat into the next day), somebody might write something fueled by frustration that might be okay then, but should be reworded after some time to reflect.

Regarding the basketball program, one poster has been way over the top and a few others have been what I would call "consistently, overly negative". But that is their right. It doesn't bother me that they write that here. We can all discuss it and work things out. While I did refer to some as "people, not fans", that was also posted on a game night, in some frustration. They are fans. They care. I get it.

I'll tell you what bothers me: Writing off the whole season or saying we need to fire the coach AFTER ONLY ONE GAME. I am a season-ticket holder and I just don't want to go THAT negative, THAT early. Criticize the play, the players, the coaching, sure, but don't write off the season (or the program) so early. (Yes, I know about last year. Believe me, I know.)

Wyking Jones and his staff seem to be making steady progress in recruiting, bringing in a steady flow of "Pac 12 quality" players to restock a roster that was depleted. Because of this, I'm willing to give him some time. On court, my expectation is that we are at least a little better than last year. Next year, we will have to be significantly better, maybe around .500 in conference. To me, the point at which we need to go in a new direction is when we reach a plateau, and it is a low one.

Go Bears! Show no mercy on Detroit... and Beat Stanfurd!

---

Pretty much with you a 100% I'll tell you what bothers me as well. The folks that ONLY post with a personal attack when things are bad and NEVER have anything good to add to the discourse. It's like they have this solid (and destructive) conviction and they wait until the right moment and take a big dump on BI.

Gobears

Yep, this mentality is what I find the most annoying. Unfortunately, there are many afflicted by this condition and who rationalize it as dealing in "reality." In truth, often their reality is far different from most others' reality. Doesn't mean they aren't entitled to their opinions, or that others aren't entitled to call them on it.

I have concluded that Wyking isn't the coach for us. I don't think it's worth waiting. It's like with Clay Helton. I think most people knew that wasn't going to work out years ago. He just isn't the right fit for a program like that. They had a few good moments. They weren't that bad. But you knew he was not going to get the SC program where they wanted to go. There was like less than a 10% chance of that. For SC standards, however long he's been there has been wasted time. Waste of talents like Darnold and other NFL prospects. They haven't gone anywhere with Helton -- not anywhere they like to go.

So yes, maybe there are some good moments, and we have some promising games. I do know enough from seeing him coach last year and the way it initially looked this year, along with whiffing on big men left and right, that Wyking will eventually get fired whether after this year or two years down the road. It seems clear to me this is not a championship coach. Can we get an elite coach? Probably not. But can we get one the caliber of Monty (which is right there at the elite -- maybe in right circumstances how we had with Monty)? I think we can. I just don't want to waste more time waiting for something to happen. It may, but it's not going to be anything great - perhaps above mediocrity that's about it. Does anyone get what I am trying to say lol?

This is not about the players. I do congratulate Wyking for this class -- whoever we did get are solid. But I want the players to get the best coaching possible. I don't think it's happening with Wyking. Luckily I don't make the decisions, so again, I would gladly eat crow if Wyking completely reverses the trend and has us playing disciplined, smart basketball, like our D plays in football. If that's the case, Wyking forever. But I haven't seen much evidence of that, and as a betting man, I wouldn't bet we will.

From what little I've seen the team looked really well coached on offense against Hampton. This is in contrast to everything we have seen before that (in China and going back years). What accounts for that? Any changes on the staff? Obviously having a really smart PG helps. Opponent helps too (our FB team's offense looked great against OSU then reverted to form).

Like others (including my buddy KAB) I concluded Jones was in over his head and was not the guy. Not by a long shot. His first year and the dismissals were a new low IMO. However, if Jones can show dramatic improvement (like produce a winning season this year while attracting top talent) I will gladly admit I was wrong. One game against Hampton does not get me there, but it gives me hope.

Good post KAB. I agree Jones is probably not our guy unless he shows dramatic improvement. However, I think the timing will be after the season, not during. And I'll still go to the games and cheer on the bears and look for the little victories.

calumnus said:

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From what little I've seen the team looked really well coached on offense against Hampton. This is in contrast to everything we have seen before that (in China and going back years). What accounts for that? Any changes on the staff? Obviously having a really smart PG helps. Opponent helps too (our FB team's offense looked great against OSU then reverted to form).

Like others (including my buddy KAB) I concluded Jones was in over his head and was not the guy. Not by a long shot. His first year and the dismissals were a new low IMO. However, if Jones can show dramatic improvement (like produce a winning season this year while attracting top talent) I will gladly admit I was wrong. One game against Hampton does not get me there, but it gives me hope.

---

If Cal can play together in most games like they did in the first half vs Hampton, that will look good to recruits, and if they can produce some good wins, that will impress them as well. If I was a big recruit, ranked a cut below the best ones, who realized I might not start if I went to the top programs like Kansas, Duke, Kentucky, Arizona, but Cal had openings where I might start right away, I think Cal might be attractive. I don't fault Jones for the recruits who are big men passing up Cal last season, because Jones and Cal were both unknowns. Now it appears Cal has some skilled players at the guards and wings, plus Kelly. It is up to Jones to show he can coach now. He has his hands full with weakness up front, but still he has a chance to prove every one wrong. If there is enough improvement, some more good recruits will come.

His recruitment of Andre Kelly just bought him major good will from me. I'm thinking a few scouts from some of the major programs are going to lose their jobs after passing on him. Thinking of him as a Junior and Senior makes me tingly all over. MAJOR BALLER IN THE MAKING!

Good post KAB. I agree Jones is probably not our guy unless he shows dramatic improvement. However, I think the timing will be after the season, not during. And I'll still go to the games and cheer on the bears and look for the little victories.

I wonder how many posts on BI talk about whether we should fire a coach or not?

seems like a high percentage to me

I would rather talk about the actual game of basketball (or football)

...by the way, there was one post move that Kelly did in his first game in Haas, that I haven't seen from a Cal player since Boykin

So what do we know about Jones? Aside from criticism.

Can he coach? Do we know, were he given the tools?

Can he recruit? So far looks fair to good. What are his AAU contacts or is that all his staff?

Given quality players how does he manage a game? Substitutions? TOs? Team harmony? Offensive strategy, defensive strategy? Adjusting at TOs and halftime?

Is he or isn't he building something and how and why? Cuonzo left the shelf bare, are we expecting too much of WJ in short order?

Do you see Cal in the next two years with what is in the bank and recruited, getting better?

I really don't know. Do you have the answers, or just the criticisms when we don't win?