Wilner article about coaching salaries. What he doesn't say is that the conference doesn't have the revenues to justify the same salary levels as other conferences. WE all kind of knew this, but here it is in detail.

Pac-12 coaching salaries: UW's Mike Hopkins near bottom of the pack https://www.seattletimes.com/sports/uw-husky-basketball/pac-12-coaching-salaries-uws-mike-hopkins-near-bottom-of-the-pack/?

wifeisafurd said:

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Wilner article about coaching salaries. What he doesn't say is that the conference doesn't have the revenues to justify the same salary levels as other conferences. WE all kind of knew this, but here it is in detail.

Pac-12 coaching salaries: UW's Mike Hopkins near bottom of the pack https://www.seattletimes.com/sports/uw-husky-basketball/pac-12-coaching-salaries-uws-mike-hopkins-near-bottom-of-the-pack/?

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As college athletics has morphed from a regional enterprise to a national industry, the P12 has taken the biggest hit. Premier athletes from the west are no longer tethered to playing for a school in this part of the country. The entire country is their playground.

IMO, this is driving the decline of the P12 conference relative to their peers. Can this exodus of talent be stemmed? Yes. However, it will require spending large sums of money to attract top level coaches who are committed to recruiting the best players from across the country. Unfortunately, as noted in WIAF's post, the revenue imbalance between the P5 conferences will make this a difficult proposition.

71Bear said:

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wifeisafurd said:

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Wilner article about coaching salaries. What he doesn't say is that the conference doesn't have the revenues to justify the same salary levels as other conferences. WE all kind of knew this, but here it is in detail.

Pac-12 coaching salaries: UW's Mike Hopkins near bottom of the pack https://www.seattletimes.com/sports/uw-husky-basketball/pac-12-coaching-salaries-uws-mike-hopkins-near-bottom-of-the-pack/?

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As college athletics has morphed from a regional enterprise to a national industry, the P12 has taken the biggest hit. Premier athletes from the west are no longer tethered to playing for a school in this part of the country. The entire country is their playground.

IMO, this is driving the decline of the P12 conference relative to their peers. Can this exodus of talent be stemmed? Yes. However, it will require spending large sums of money to attract top level coaches who are committed to recruiting the best players from across the country. Unfortunately, as noted in WIAF's post, the revenue imbalance between the P5 conferences will make this a difficult proposition.

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Agreed. Which should make things interesting as the pac ADs consider possibly replacing 5 or more coaches,

No prob

All you have to do is build a basketball palace like uncle Phil did at Oregon

Not helping matters is how low profile the conference is thanks to the tv deals in place. That was certainly on display for the P12 tourney this weekend when you had 3 of the 4 quarter-final games and 1 of the 2 semi-final games on the PAC 12 network which nobody gets. And then a final game at 11pm eastern time.

TheSouseFamily said:

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Not helping matters is how low profile the conference is thanks to the tv deals in place. That was certainly on display for the P12 tourney this weekend when you had 3 of the 4 quarter-final games and 1 of the 2 semi-final games on the PAC 12 network which nobody gets. And then a final game at 11pm eastern time.

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Normally I would agree with you, but given the quality of play, glad so few people saw the tourney on the tube. This wasn't Duke vs North Carolina.

Watching that Duke/NC game felt like the first time I'd seen actual college basketball all season. It was so strangely entertaining.

KenBurnski said:

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Watching that Duke/NC game felt like the first time I'd seen actual college basketball all season. It was so strangely entertaining.

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That's because Duke and UNC have the best players Nike can buy for them.

wifeisafurd said:

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Wilner article about coaching salaries. What he doesn't say is that the conference doesn't have the revenues to justify the same salary levels as other conferences. WE all kind of knew this, but here it is in detail.

Pac-12 coaching salaries: UW's Mike Hopkins near bottom of the pack https://www.seattletimes.com/sports/uw-husky-basketball/pac-12-coaching-salaries-uws-mike-hopkins-near-bottom-of-the-pack/?

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It's disingenuous for Wilner to complain that someone who has never before been a head coach (Hopkins) has a salary lower than others who have been head coaches for quite some time.

No question that Hopkins deserves a big bump in salary now, but there's also no reason to think that he should have been paid like Miller or Altman on the day he signed with UW.

Also, teams can't excuse their poor coaching hires by complaining about money. Cal, for example, could have hired either DeCuire or Turner for the same amount of money they have wasted/are wasting on Jones.

BearSD said:

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That's because Duke and UNC have the best players Nike can buy for them.

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Maybe the Pac-12 salary constraints aren't restricted to coaches.

BearSD said:

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KenBurnski said:

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Watching that Duke/NC game felt like the first time I'd seen actual college basketball all season. It was so strangely entertaining.

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That's because Duke and UNC have the best players Nike can buy for them.

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As much as I abhor UNC's several decades of academic fraud and cheating to keep athletes eligible, I don't think you can make that claim about this year's UNC team. Their two front court stars, Cam Johnson and Luke Maye were lightly recruited (relatively speaking) guys who contributed nothing as freshman and sophomores but developed in a big way to become major factors as juniors or seniors. Say what you want about Ol' Roy but he's got an excellent track record of developing players who weren't the high profile Mickey D guys. He's a phenomenal coach in terms of developing guys over a 4 year career. I think UNC goes deep in the tournament thanks to those two who averaged single figure minutes and 2-3 points a game as young college players. That kind of coaching and development is something for us to emulate.

BearSD said:

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wifeisafurd said:

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Wilner article about coaching salaries. What he doesn't say is that the conference doesn't have the revenues to justify the same salary levels as other conferences. WE all kind of knew this, but here it is in detail.

Pac-12 coaching salaries: UW's Mike Hopkins near bottom of the pack https://www.seattletimes.com/sports/uw-husky-basketball/pac-12-coaching-salaries-uws-mike-hopkins-near-bottom-of-the-pack/?

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Also, teams can't excuse their poor coaching hires by complaining about money. Cal, for example, could have hired either DeCuire or Turner for the same amount of money they have wasted/are wasting on Jones.

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I'm not sure where everyone always comes up with stuff like this guy or that guy would have taken the Cal job. Turner only is moving to a school where his wife can be lead ER doctor, like UCI medical center. For the record, she is and will continue to be the lead breadwinner in the family if he came to Cal and Cal doesn't have a medical school if can leverage her into a lead position. How interested DeCuire was last time (having one been passed over) is an open question, and his interest came with conditions Mike Williams likely was not prepared to meet (like fundraising for a practice facility). I assume the job this time around would be more popular given the change in Chancellor and AD.

wifeisafurd said:

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BearSD said:

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wifeisafurd said:

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Wilner article about coaching salaries. What he doesn't say is that the conference doesn't have the revenues to justify the same salary levels as other conferences. WE all kind of knew this, but here it is in detail.

Pac-12 coaching salaries: UW's Mike Hopkins near bottom of the pack https://www.seattletimes.com/sports/uw-husky-basketball/pac-12-coaching-salaries-uws-mike-hopkins-near-bottom-of-the-pack/?

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Also, teams can't excuse their poor coaching hires by complaining about money. Cal, for example, could have hired either DeCuire or Turner for the same amount of money they have wasted/are wasting on Jones.

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I'm not sure where everyone always comes up with stuff like this guy or that guy would have taken the Cal job. Turner only is moving to a school where his wife can be lead ER doctor, like UCI medical center. For the record, she is and will continue to be the lead breadwinner in the family if he came to Cal and Cal doesn't have a medical school if can leverage her into a lead position. How interested DeCuire was last time (having one been passed over) is an open question, and his interest came with conditions Mike Williams likely was not prepared to meet (like fundraising for a practice facility). I assume the job this time around would be more popular given the change in Chancellor and AD.

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Not to mention that "market value" for hiring a Pac 12 coach in the Bay Area with prior HC experience (mid-major) would've been a bit more than what we're paying Jones. Figure $1.25 in the case of these two. What's Haase making, 1.25-1.5?

You can't just say, "He's making X now, so we could hire him for 2X (or 3X)." It doesn't work that way.

Big C said:

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Not to mention that "market value" for hiring a Pac 12 coach in the Bay Area with prior HC experience (mid-major) would've been a bit more than what we're paying Jones. Figure $1.25 in the case of these two. What's Haase making, 1.25-1.5?

You can't just say, "He's making X now, so we could hire him for 2X (or 3X)." It doesn't work that way.

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Precisely. If we were after Turner or DeCuire, we wouldn't be competing with Montana or UCI, but with other P6 schools that want a new coach.

71Bear said:

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wifeisafurd said:

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Wilner article about coaching salaries. What he doesn't say is that the conference doesn't have the revenues to justify the same salary levels as other conferences. WE all kind of knew this, but here it is in detail.

Pac-12 coaching salaries: UW's Mike Hopkins near bottom of the pack https://www.seattletimes.com/sports/uw-husky-basketball/pac-12-coaching-salaries-uws-mike-hopkins-near-bottom-of-the-pack/?

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As college athletics has morphed from a regional enterprise to a national industry, the P12 has taken the biggest hit. Premier athletes from the west are no longer tethered to playing for a school in this part of the country. The entire country is their playground.

IMO, this is driving the decline of the P12 conference relative to their peers. Can this exodus of talent be stemmed? Yes. However, it will require spending large sums of money to attract top level coaches who are committed to recruiting the best players from across the country. Unfortunately, as noted in WIAF's post, the revenue imbalance between the P5 conferences will make this a difficult proposition.

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Maybe it's coaches, maybe exposure. The PAC's disadvantage in TV scheduling means we are seen less in prime time in large swaths of the country and, at least in part, underlies the revenue deficits many schools face. Lower revenues mean we need more donor support if we're going to compete for pricy, proven coaches and I wonder if any school in the conference has the deep roots fan support that you see in some areas of the south and midwest.

Some Nielsen TV ratings numbers from Saturday's college basketball games (adults 18-49) are listed below. From a share standpoint, the P12 tournament actually had the third highest ratings of any show on TV Saturday (though not in terms of total viewers).

https://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/daily-ratings/saturday-cable-ratings-march-16-2019/

Pac-12 Tournament Final (Oregon/UW): 1.99M viewers
ACC Tournament Final (Florida State/Duke): 4.06M viewers
SEC Tournament Semi-Final (Tenn/Kentucky): 3.29M viewers
SEC Tournament Semi-Final (Auburn/Florida): 1.47M viewers
Big 12 Tournament Final: (Iowa State / Kansas): 2.52M viewers

wifeisafurd said:

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I'm not sure where everyone always comes up with stuff like this guy or that guy would have taken the Cal job. Turner only is moving to a school where his wife can be lead ER doctor, like UCI medical center. For the record, she is and will continue to be the lead breadwinner in the family if he came to Cal and Cal doesn't have a medical school if can leverage her into a lead position. How interested DeCuire was last time (having one been passed over) is an open question, and his interest came with conditions Mike Williams likely was not prepared to meet (like fundraising for a practice facility). I assume the job this time around would be more popular given the change in Chancellor and AD.

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This time around he has the profile that Cal should consider. I didn't, and still don't, think he should have been hired first time around. There are also other coaches who have had success at smaller programs as well, and if Turner has reasons not to move there are coaches who won't have those reasons. That lack of a practice facility is going to be a problem every time we have to hire a coach or recruit a player who has a lot of options, but the job is still a step up from a program like Montana. Job 1 is to recognize that a new hire is needed.

TheSouseFamily said:

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Some Nielsen TV ratings numbers from Saturday's college basketball games (adults 18-49) are listed below. From a share standpoint, the P12 tournament actually had the third highest ratings of any show on TV Saturday (though not in terms of total viewers).

https://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/daily-ratings/saturday-cable-ratings-march-16-2019/

Pac-12 Tournament Final (Oregon/UW): 1.99M viewers
ACC Tournament Final (Florida State/Duke): 4.06M viewers
SEC Tournament Semi-Final (Tenn/Kentucky): 3.29M viewers
SEC Tournament Semi-Final (Auburn/Florida): 1.47M viewers
Big 12 Tournament Final: (Iowa State / Kansas): 2.52M viewers

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Quick correction...

Third highest rating among CABLE shows on TV. Broadcast networks were not included in the summary.