OK.

<RANT ON>

All this smacks of football in 2000. For those too young to remember, that year, coming off a 4 and 7 season Tom, the nice guy, Holmoe goes 3-8. We now have suffered FOUR years of sub .500 football. Our "best" conference finish is a tie for 6th. Sure, we actually own the SoCal schools in TH's run but generally it is a boring product on the field and nothing suggests it is really going to go better.

Rather than pull the trigger Tom comes back for his 5th year.

and goes 1-11.


NOTHING we have seen. NOTHING in the past 2 years suggests Jones is the guy. Yes. Yes. Big hole. Hard hand. Sucks to follow the arsonist known as Martin.

BUT YOU HAVE TO BE ABLE TO SHOW SOME HOPE!!!!

My hope is that at least Jones does the right thing (fat chance of that). Holmoe was man up enough to resign after starting 2001 0 and 8. Gave us a chance to find Teddy. When we are 0 fer conference I hope ALL of piss poor examples of fans come back to this thread and let me know when we can expect the letter.

When I said the same thing eight days ago, I was criticized. Now, the rest of you are seeing the shortcoming.

Go Bears!

KoreAmBear said:

---

Is there some kind of petition we can all sign to get JK to come to his senses? This is absolutely insane.

We're losing McNeill and probably another starter, but we are stuck with the worst power conference coach in the nation -- and he may get extended? Stop the Knowlton train wreck now.

---

If we don't have the money to fire him, we certainly don't have the money to extend him.

Yogi Bear said:

---

KoreAmBear said:

---

Is there some kind of petition we can all sign to get JK to come to his senses? This is absolutely insane.

We're losing McNeill and probably another starter, but we are stuck with the worst power conference coach in the nation -- and he may get extended? Stop the Knowlton train wreck now.

---

If we don't have the money to fire him, we certainly don't have the money to extend him.

---

I'm hearing extension in some cost neutral way to maintain recruiting optics. I'm done caring about this.

socaltownie said:

---

OK.

<RANT ON>

All this smacks of football in 2000. For those too young to remember, that year, coming off a 4 and 7 season Tom, the nice guy, Holmoe goes 3-8. We now have suffered FOUR years of sub .500 football. Our "best" conference finish is a tie for 6th. Sure, we actually own the SoCal schools in TH's run but generally it is a boring product on the field and nothing suggests it is really going to go better.

Rather than pull the trigger Tom comes back for his 5th year.

and goes 1-11.


NOTHING we have seen. NOTHING in the past 2 years suggests Jones is the guy. Yes. Yes. Big hole. Hard hand. Sucks to follow the arsonist known as Martin.

BUT YOU HAVE TO BE ABLE TO SHOW SOME HOPE!!!!

My hope is that at least Jones does the right thing (fat chance of that). Holmoe was man up enough to resign after starting 2001 0 and 8. Gave us a chance to find Teddy. When we are 0 fer conference I hope ALL of piss poor examples of fans come back to this thread and let me know when we can expect the letter.

---

I see this as a 12-15 game time frame.
Knowlton will know by the end of preseason.
If things aren't going the right way I see a firing early 2020 mid season.

Alkiadt said:

---

I see this as a 12-15 game time frame.
Knowlton will know by the end of preseason.
If things aren't going the right way I see a firing early 2020 mid season.

---

LMFAO.

Not gonna happen.

Alkiadt said:

---

I see this as a 12-15 game time frame.
Knowlton will know by the end of preseason.
If things aren't going the right way I see a firing early 2020 mid season.

---

That is what many thought would happen early this season after the disaster of last season. But, ...

Go Bears!

calbear80 said:

---

Alkiadt said:

---

I see this as a 12-15 game time frame.
Knowlton will know by the end of preseason.
If things aren't going the right way I see a firing early 2020 mid season.

---

That is what many thought would happen early this season after the disaster of last season. But, ...

Go Bears!

---

I was positive he was gone until the 3 game winning streak. That, plus some insight from someone else, made me believe that given the opportunity, Cal would do what Cal does best and Cal. And sure enough, they Cal'd.

That is a verb I am going to use early and often

calbear80 said:

---

Alkiadt said:

---

I see this as a 12-15 game time frame.
Knowlton will know by the end of preseason.
If things aren't going the right way I see a firing early 2020 mid season.

---

That is what many thought would happen early this season after the disaster of last season. But, ...

Go Bears!

---

Anybody who assumed a new AD coming in would fire a guy 6 months on the job who he didn't hire who is in his second year on the job would have been mistaken. Knowlton wasn't here for the first year of WJ's tenure.

It may not be his fault...

Alkiadt said:

---

calbear80 said:

---

Alkiadt said:

---

I see this as a 12-15 game time frame.
Knowlton will know by the end of preseason.
If things aren't going the right way I see a firing early 2020 mid season.

---

That is what many thought would happen early this season after the disaster of last season. But, ...

Go Bears!

---

Anybody who assumed a new AD coming in would fire a guy 6 months on the job who he didn't hire who is in his second year on the job would have been mistaken. Knowlton wasn't here for the first year of WJ's tenure.

---

99% of real d1 athletic directors would have done exactly that.

Yogi Bear said:

---

socaltownie said:

---

Alkiadt said:

---

calbear80 said:

---

Alkiadt said:

---

I see this as a 12-15 game time frame.
Knowlton will know by the end of preseason.
If things aren't going the right way I see a firing early 2020 mid season.

---

That is what many thought would happen early this season after the disaster of last season. But, ...

Go Bears!

---

Anybody who assumed a new AD coming in would fire a guy 6 months on the job who he didn't hire who is in his second year on the job would have been mistaken. Knowlton wasn't here for the first year of WJ's tenure.

---

99% of real d1 athletic directors would have done exactly that.

---

You won't get through to this guy. Someone's balls in the athletic department are thanking him.

---

You need to stop with the off color personal attacks.

Thanks

Quote:

---

If we don't have the money to fire him, we certainly don't have the money to extend him.

---

Isn't his #1 job fundraising? (I was extremely skeptical about this hire....what in his career at D3 RPI and Air Force demonstrated that he is a Rain Maker?)

Alkiadt said:

---

Yogi Bear said:

---

socaltownie said:

---

Alkiadt said:

---

Anybody who assumed a new AD coming in would fire a guy 6 months on the job who he didn't hire who is in his second year on the job would have been mistaken. Knowlton wasn't here for the first year of WJ's tenure.

---

99% of real d1 athletic directors would have done exactly that.

---

You won't get through to this guy. Someone's balls in the athletic department are thanking him.

---

You need to stop with the off color personal attacks.

Thanks

---

Yeah, not regretting it.

socaltownie said:

---

OK.

<RANT ON>

All this smacks of football in 2000. For those too young to remember, that year, coming off a 4 and 7 season Tom, the nice guy, Holmoe goes 3-8. We now have suffered FOUR years of sub .500 football. Our "best" conference finish is a tie for 6th. Sure, we actually own the SoCal schools in TH's run but generally it is a boring product on the field and nothing suggests it is really going to go better.

Rather than pull the trigger Tom comes back for his 5th year.

and goes 1-11.


NOTHING we have seen. NOTHING in the past 2 years suggests Jones is the guy. Yes. Yes. Big hole. Hard hand. Sucks to follow the arsonist known as Martin.

BUT YOU HAVE TO BE ABLE TO SHOW SOME HOPE!!!!

My hope is that at least Jones does the right thing (fat chance of that). Holmoe was man up enough to resign after starting 2001 0 and 8. Gave us a chance to find Teddy. When we are 0 fer conference I hope ALL of piss poor examples of fans come back to this thread and let me know when we can expect the letter.

---

Holmoe did not voluntarily resign. He was given the option to resign or be fired and he got all of his buy out. There was no manning up, not that there is any reason to expect a coach not to hold a school to their contract..

OaktownBear said:

---

socaltownie said:

---

OK.

<RANT ON>

All this smacks of football in 2000. For those too young to remember, that year, coming off a 4 and 7 season Tom, the nice guy, Holmoe goes 3-8. We now have suffered FOUR years of sub .500 football. Our "best" conference finish is a tie for 6th. Sure, we actually own the SoCal schools in TH's run but generally it is a boring product on the field and nothing suggests it is really going to go better.

Rather than pull the trigger Tom comes back for his 5th year.

and goes 1-11.


NOTHING we have seen. NOTHING in the past 2 years suggests Jones is the guy. Yes. Yes. Big hole. Hard hand. Sucks to follow the arsonist known as Martin.

BUT YOU HAVE TO BE ABLE TO SHOW SOME HOPE!!!!

My hope is that at least Jones does the right thing (fat chance of that). Holmoe was man up enough to resign after starting 2001 0 and 8. Gave us a chance to find Teddy. When we are 0 fer conference I hope ALL of piss poor examples of fans come back to this thread and let me know when we can expect the letter.

---

Holmoe did not voluntarily resign. He was given the option to resign or be fired and he got all of his buy out. There was no manning up, not that there is any reason to expect a coach not to hold a school to their contract..

---

Many Cal fans believe that myth about "saint" Holmoe (that he resigned and did not take the remaining money on his contract) because that is what he SAID he would do if we did not have a winning season. In the end, he had to be fired AND he demanded we pay him. Turns out he lied too.

Alkiadt said:

---

socaltownie said:

---

OK.

<RANT ON>

All this smacks of football in 2000. For those too young to remember, that year, coming off a 4 and 7 season Tom, the nice guy, Holmoe goes 3-8. We now have suffered FOUR years of sub .500 football. Our "best" conference finish is a tie for 6th. Sure, we actually own the SoCal schools in TH's run but generally it is a boring product on the field and nothing suggests it is really going to go better.

Rather than pull the trigger Tom comes back for his 5th year.

and goes 1-11.


NOTHING we have seen. NOTHING in the past 2 years suggests Jones is the guy. Yes. Yes. Big hole. Hard hand. Sucks to follow the arsonist known as Martin.

BUT YOU HAVE TO BE ABLE TO SHOW SOME HOPE!!!!

My hope is that at least Jones does the right thing (fat chance of that). Holmoe was man up enough to resign after starting 2001 0 and 8. Gave us a chance to find Teddy. When we are 0 fer conference I hope ALL of piss poor examples of fans come back to this thread and let me know when we can expect the letter.

---

I see this as a 12-15 game time frame.
Knowlton will know by the end of preseason.
If things aren't going the right way I see a firing early 2020 mid season.

---

2020? Not even next season???

Lmfao I wonder if we'll have extended him by then and end up paying him just as much if not more to leave.

The decision to retain TH and Braun after their shelf date had nothing to do with their ability to field winning teams.

"Mr. Nice Guy" was a master manipulator who snowed several donors and the non-athletic administration with his big toe in the sand-aw shucks act. The word that kept coming up again and again was "integrity." Nothing about "ability", "competence" or even "potential", just "integrity." We even saw this infect otherwise reasonable posters on the precursor to this site. Of course, many realized that TH wasn't even blessed with that simple virtue, but Cal fans aren't the first gaggle of idiots to be undone by their naivete.

Braun at least had the deceny to be honest about it. Just sidle up to the biggest fish you can find and ride things out as long as you can. Every time the heat gets turned up, you bring an extra nice bottle of wine to your weekly dinner at Casa Haas. Done.

The decision to retain WJ is just a variation on a theme. It has nothing to do with winning, losing or any other curricular thing. It has to do with who he is, or more accurately who he represents to the non-athletic administration, several hole-in-the-head donors and, presumably, a good percentage of faculty and fans.

The only difference here is the magnitude of the decision, or non-decision. The AD is solidly in the dumper. The fact that it's seemingly OK to let a marquee program flame out means that Ira Michael Heyman's dream is being realized. Cal is unofficially relegating athletics. Basically, this is the kill shot.

Earlier this year I suggested that we should punt on b-ball this year, go all in on football, and worry about Wyking next year. Unfortunately, it sounds like we went REALLY cheap on the defensive football staff raises, did NOT go all in. And still kept Wyking.

Jim Knowlton does not care about winning.

socaliganbear said:

---

Earlier this year I suggested that we should punt on b-ball this year, go all in on football, and worry about Wyking next year. Unfortunately, it sounds like we went REALLY cheap on the defensive football staff raises, did NOT go all in. And still kept Wyking.

Jim Knowlton does not care about winning.

---

Jim Knowlton is a lap dog and useful idiot planning his retirement. He decides nothing.

The more I think about the decision to not replace WJ, the less it makes sense to me both economically and practically. I'm thinking the administration brushed off this decision so they could focus on the harassment allegations making national news. At least that's a more palatable explanation than knowing the new administration is as inept and remiss as the last bunch.

wifeisafurd said:

---

Yogi Bear said:

---

Alkiadt said:

---

I see this as a 12-15 game time frame.
Knowlton will know by the end of preseason.
If things aren't going the right way I see a firing early 2020 mid season.

---

LMFAO.

Not gonna happen.

---

I was trying to prepare you for the reality of what I saw coming (I did not know in advance of JK's decision).

Most programs would have canned a guy with this win-loss record, but Cal isn't most schools. Moreover, the way Cal ended the season may have been enough to save Jones. Sorta like young Harbaugh, you may have a lousy record, but when you beat Cal and SC in the same year, you get an extension. Jones beat Furd at Furd and beat the team with the best conference record. By the end the team was somewhat competitive, with everyone in the conference. So yeah, the winning streak mattered. The other problem is having alternatives and money, and despite some the ridiculous things everyone was posting there really wasn't either. IMO (and you can broadcast how wrong I was next year), there will be a popular alternative with head coaching experience that is realistic, and more money next year if Jones can't get the job done. The timing wasn't there right now.

The thing about basketball (having played in high school with a future NBA player). is one or two players can make a HUGE difference and turn a program around almost instantly. I have seen it. While McNeil is gone, there is some talent left. If Jones or a new coach the following year can hit on a recruit or two, Cal can be back quickly. It is not like football where you really have to develop team depth over a 3 year period. Just my two cents.

---

I also suggested that he would return. It didn't take much foresight. It only took an understanding of Deep Throat's famous mantra: Follow the Money.

71Bear said:

---

wifeisafurd said:

---

Yogi Bear said:

---

Alkiadt said:

---

I see this as a 12-15 game time frame.
Knowlton will know by the end of preseason.
If things aren't going the right way I see a firing early 2020 mid season.

---

LMFAO.

Not gonna happen.

---

I was trying to prepare you for the reality of what I saw coming (I did not know in advance of JK's decision).

Most programs would have canned a guy with this win-loss record, but Cal isn't most schools. Moreover, the way Cal ended the season may have been enough to save Jones. Sorta like young Harbaugh, you may have a lousy record, but when you beat Cal and SC in the same year, you get an extension. Jones beat Furd at Furd and beat the team with the best conference record. By the end the team was somewhat competitive, with everyone in the conference. So yeah, the winning streak mattered. The other problem is having alternatives and money, and despite some the ridiculous things everyone was posting there really wasn't either. IMO (and you can broadcast how wrong I was next year), there will be a popular alternative with head coaching experience that is realistic, and more money next year if Jones can't get the job done. The timing wasn't there right now.

The thing about basketball (having played in high school with a future NBA player). is one or two players can make a HUGE difference and turn a program around almost instantly. I have seen it. While McNeil is gone, there is some talent left. If Jones or a new coach the following year can hit on a recruit or two, Cal can be back quickly. It is not like football where you really have to develop team depth over a 3 year period. Just my two cents.

---

I also suggested that he would return. It didn't take much foresight. It only took an understanding of Deep Throat's famous mantra: Follow the Money.

---

Well I got a lot of animosity when I concluded it would happen.

wifeisafurd said:

---

71Bear said:

---

wifeisafurd said:

---

Yogi Bear said:

---

Alkiadt said:

---

I see this as a 12-15 game time frame.
Knowlton will know by the end of preseason.
If things aren't going the right way I see a firing early 2020 mid season.

---

LMFAO.

Not gonna happen.

---

I was trying to prepare you for the reality of what I saw coming (I did not know in advance of JK's decision).

Most programs would have canned a guy with this win-loss record, but Cal isn't most schools. Moreover, the way Cal ended the season may have been enough to save Jones. Sorta like young Harbaugh, you may have a lousy record, but when you beat Cal and SC in the same year, you get an extension. Jones beat Furd at Furd and beat the team with the best conference record. By the end the team was somewhat competitive, with everyone in the conference. So yeah, the winning streak mattered. The other problem is having alternatives and money, and despite some the ridiculous things everyone was posting there really wasn't either. IMO (and you can broadcast how wrong I was next year), there will be a popular alternative with head coaching experience that is realistic, and more money next year if Jones can't get the job done. The timing wasn't there right now.

The thing about basketball (having played in high school with a future NBA player). is one or two players can make a HUGE difference and turn a program around almost instantly. I have seen it. While McNeil is gone, there is some talent left. If Jones or a new coach the following year can hit on a recruit or two, Cal can be back quickly. It is not like football where you really have to develop team depth over a 3 year period. Just my two cents.

---

I also suggested that he would return. It didn't take much foresight. It only took an understanding of Deep Throat's famous mantra: Follow the Money.

---

Well I got a lot of animosity when I concluded it would happen.

---

What you are getting grief about is having the ear of the AD and not YELLING at him and, if unable to convince, speaking with your check book - for example restricting your gift to endowment for golf or an olympic sport so that the money is less than fungible.

Take heart guys. Its the season of musical chairs for coaches. The demand for WJ maybe low but you never know. Lots of coaches are getting kicked to the curb and maybe somebody will value the cleanliness of the program and good APR. Given WJ's salary and lack of alumni love he could move on. If not this year then next year when he wins 12 games (total).

wifeisafurd said:

---

71Bear said:

---

wifeisafurd said:

---

Yogi Bear said:

---

Alkiadt said:

---

I see this as a 12-15 game time frame.
Knowlton will know by the end of preseason.
If things aren't going the right way I see a firing early 2020 mid season.

---

LMFAO.

Not gonna happen.

---

I was trying to prepare you for the reality of what I saw coming (I did not know in advance of JK's decision).

Most programs would have canned a guy with this win-loss record, but Cal isn't most schools. Moreover, the way Cal ended the season may have been enough to save Jones. Sorta like young Harbaugh, you may have a lousy record, but when you beat Cal and SC in the same year, you get an extension. Jones beat Furd at Furd and beat the team with the best conference record. By the end the team was somewhat competitive, with everyone in the conference. So yeah, the winning streak mattered. The other problem is having alternatives and money, and despite some the ridiculous things everyone was posting there really wasn't either. IMO (and you can broadcast how wrong I was next year), there will be a popular alternative with head coaching experience that is realistic, and more money next year if Jones can't get the job done. The timing wasn't there right now.

The thing about basketball (having played in high school with a future NBA player). is one or two players can make a HUGE difference and turn a program around almost instantly. I have seen it. While McNeil is gone, there is some talent left. If Jones or a new coach the following year can hit on a recruit or two, Cal can be back quickly. It is not like football where you really have to develop team depth over a 3 year period. Just my two cents.

---

I also suggested that he would return. It didn't take much foresight. It only took an understanding of Deep Throat's famous mantra: Follow the Money.

---

Well I got a lot of animosity when I concluded it would happen.

---

The truth will set you free. Always keep in mind, Cal fans, as a whole, are irrational.

socaliganbear said:

---

Earlier this year I suggested that we should punt on b-ball this year, go all in on football, and worry about Wyking next year. Unfortunately, it sounds like we went REALLY cheap on the defensive football staff raises, did NOT go all in. And still kept Wyking.

Jim Knowlton does not care about winning.

---

FWIW, this was my view, and I was much more disappointed by the lack of offensive football changes A strong football program can generate a lot of money to cover an investment in MBB. But W-T_F do I know?

wifeisafurd said:

---

socaliganbear said:

---

Earlier this year I suggested that we should punt on b-ball this year, go all in on football, and worry about Wyking next year. Unfortunately, it sounds like we went REALLY cheap on the defensive football staff raises, did NOT go all in. And still kept Wyking.

Jim Knowlton does not care about winning.

---

FWIW, this was my view, and I was much more disappointed by the lack of offensive football changes A strong football program can generate a lot of money to cover an investment in MBB. But W-T_F do I know?

---

Yeah. I was fine letting b-ball hang for a bit because I assumed we were going all in with FB. Turns out it was more of the same from Cal.

Big Dog said:

---

Quote:

---

If we don't have the money to fire him, we certainly don't have the money to extend him.

---

Isn't his #1 job fundraising? (I was extremely skeptical about this hire....what in his career at D3 RPI and Air Force demonstrated that he is a Rain Maker?)

---

In answer to this (not defending the WJ decision, btw), he raised enough money for RPI to get the most lavish arena in D3.

Quote:

---

The thing about basketball (having played in high school with a future NBA player). is one or two players can make a HUGE difference and turn a program around almost instantly. I have seen it....If Jones or a new coach the following year can hit on a recruit or two, Cal can be back quickly.

---

Well that's correct and reinforces why keeping WJ makes no sense. What top recruit in thier right mind would sign up to be coached by Wyking when the odds are excellent that he won't be with the program when the recruit would matriculate?

2019/20 will just be another lost year.

Knowlton has to know that.

Big Dog said:

---

Quote:

---

The thing about basketball (having played in high school with a future NBA player). is one or two players can make a HUGE difference and turn a program around almost instantly. I have seen it....If Jones or a new coach the following year can hit on a recruit or two, Cal can be back quickly.

---

Well that's correct and reinforces why keeping WJ makes no sense. What top recruit in thier right mind would sign up to be coached by Wyking when the odds are excellent that he won't be with the program when the recruit would matriculate?

2019/20 will just be another lost year.

Knowlton has to know that.

---

I am sure he took into account 2019/2020 being a lost year. What I do not think he took into account is the damage to subsequent years, even if a change is made next year. The first rule when you find yourself in a hole is to stop digging. It will be that much more difficult to rebuild the interest of fans and recruits. Still, in basketball, things can turn around quickly with the right coach.

Thus, I am with WIAF, the rearranging of deck chairs with the offensive staff in football was much worse. It could sink the whole Wilcox ship, which would be a disaster. Not sure how much is Wilcox and how much is Knowlton on that decision though.