Many coaches don't want to come to Berkeley because it's Berkeley. Telegraph and its environs ain't pretty. Add that to the entrance requirements and the candidate pool shrinks. I suspect CAL may have been interested in quite a few candidates, but the interest was not mutual.
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HateRed said:
Many coaches don't want to come to Berkeley because it's Berkeley. Telegraph and its environs ain't pretty. Add that to the entrance requirements and the candidate pool shrinks. I suspect CAL may have been interested in quite a few candidates, but the interest was not mutual.
You think we lost out on Travis? I don't. I think our AD is just incompetent.
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I got some friends inside
Send my credentials to the House of Detention
I got some friends inside
And then there are people like Jaylen Brown and Shareef Abdur Rahim who want to go to school someplace that helps them grow as people and challenges their thinking.HateRed said:
Many coaches don't want to come to Berkeley because it's Berkeley. Telegraph and its environs ain't pretty. Add that to the entrance requirements and the candidate pool shrinks. I suspect CAL may have been interested in quite a few candidates, but the interest was not mutual.
Berkeley is a selling point.
- We are not going to cheat at recruiting more than Arizona, Oregon, Kentucky, Houston and North Carolina.
- There are a lot of schools that are similar to each other - Nebraska, Iowa, etc.
- Cal is the one and only -- Greatest University in the World. We need to get very good players who want a great education.
C'mon man. Berkeley is a beautiful city that is one of the most sought after housing markets in one of the most sought after housing markets. Telegraph and environs are a few square blocks.HateRed said:
Many coaches don't want to come to Berkeley because it's Berkeley. Telegraph and its environs ain't pretty. Add that to the entrance requirements and the candidate pool shrinks. I suspect CAL may have been interested in quite a few candidates, but the interest was not mutual.
Again. Decuire makes $175K at Montana. (and he was fine in Berkeley for 6 years). If he doesn't want the job (and I still doubt that being the case) how many Decuires are out there making chump change that maybe could look past Telegraph for a six fold pay increase? Guys that may not be proven but they aren't proven mediocre. You don't go for a "sure thing" (and Fox is not a sure thing) when that sure thing is mediocrity.
Yes but......RJABear said:And then there are people like Jaylen Brown and Shareef Abdur Rahim who want to go to school someplace that helps them grow as people and challenges their thinking.HateRed said:
Many coaches don't want to come to Berkeley because it's Berkeley. Telegraph and its environs ain't pretty. Add that to the entrance requirements and the candidate pool shrinks. I suspect CAL may have been interested in quite a few candidates, but the interest was not mutual.
Berkeley is a selling point.
- We are not going to cheat at recruiting more than Arizona, Oregon, Kentucky, Houston and North Carolina.
- There are a lot of schools that are similar to each other - Nebraska, Iowa, etc.
- Cal is the one and only -- Greatest University in the World. We need to get very good players who want a great education.
Cal's best approach to AD is not to think of itself as different in kind but different in degree. Its experience on the undergrad level is akin to Wisky, Michigan and especially UCLA. Big land grant schools with top 50 reputations - but just better.
The AD at CAL knows more than anybody on this board the advantages and drawbacks that anyone candidate sees in being head coach at CAL. There are reasons why Travis was not interested or not hired. My guess is he was not interested. I have not heard that Fox has been hired. It could be a detractor from the real hire.
OaktownBear said:C'mon man. Berkeley is a beautiful city that is one of the most sought after housing markets in one of the most sought after housing markets. Telegraph and environs are a few square blocks.HateRed said:
Many coaches don't want to come to Berkeley because it's Berkeley. Telegraph and its environs ain't pretty. Add that to the entrance requirements and the candidate pool shrinks. I suspect CAL may have been interested in quite a few candidates, but the interest was not mutual.
Again. Decuire makes $175K at Montana. (and he was fine in Berkeley for 6 years). If he doesn't want the job (and I still doubt that being the case) how many Decuires are out there making chump change that maybe could look past Telegraph for a six fold pay increase? Guys that may not be proven but they aren't proven mediocre. You don't go for a "sure thing" (and Fox is not a sure thing) when that sure thing is mediocrity.
I'd go live in Syria for a few years if you wanted to 6x my compensation.
The Cal AD has known more than anybody on this board, blah blah blah since 1959. You really think the Cal AD's record over the last 60 years should buy them trust from this fanbase?HateRed said:
The AD at CAL knows more than anybody on this board the advantages and drawbacks that anyone candidate sees in being head coach at CAL. There are reasons why Travis was not interested or not hired. My guess is he was not interested. I have not heard that Fox has been hired. It could be a detractor from the real hire.
Than why has this fan base not done anything about it? You got it...we are not Texas, Georgia, etc. etc. Hell, we're not even...well...
HateRed said:
The AD at CAL knows more than anybody on this board the advantages and drawbacks that anyone candidate sees in being head coach at CAL. There are reasons why Travis was not interested or not hired. My guess is he was not interested. I have not heard that Fox has been hired. It could be a detractor from the real hire.
The Cal AD is on a glide path to retirement and does what his bosses in the non-athletic administration tell him. We haven't had an independent AD since SB got neutered. People here like to blame MW for the Wyking hire. I'm not saying he was averse to it, but he wasn't the final say. What you're getting here is a caretaker that won't do anything to spur fan interest or donor involvement (or desire for involvement, more importantly). Just how Cal likes it.
This makes fine sense, really. Culturally, Cal alums of the last ~30 years aren't engaged enough with athletics that the non-athletic administration needs to ply them with winning programs. They don't give (or not give) based on how the FB and MBB teams are doing, and that's not what brings them back to campus, if they come at all. Factor in the natural antipathy of the faculty and many administrators, and you understand why shyt like this happens.
Cal fans: This is total BS. This sucks. We need to do something about it!HateRed said:
Than why has this fan base not done anything about it? You got it...we are not Texas, Georgia, etc. etc. Hell, we're not even...well...
HateRed: Guys. The AD knows what he's doing. Stop Complaining
Me: The AD has sucked for 60 years why should we trust them
HateRed: And yet Cal fans don't complain so stop complaining.
Maybe the problem is there are too many Cal fans that excuse this bullshyte like you just did and not enough that care enough to hold them accountable like you refuse to do.
I'm not asking to be Texas. I'm asking that we stop being total morons. Be the best Cal we can be. Cal fans actually used to care (in some cases too much - our history isn't totally clean). Cal fans don't care anymore because Cal has sucked since people who are currently 78 years old were freshmen. The fact that you suck so bad for so long that people stop paying attention is not an excuse to keep sucking.
Since we're all guessing, I'm going to speculate that DeCuire just bought some property in the northern parts of Montana, got into horeseback riding and hunting and decided that was the place for him.
OaktownBear, complaining and doing something about it are two different things. You know that.
I keep buying lottery tickets, hoping I will make enough money that I actually have enough money that I can actually do something Cal will care about. At this point it is clear that the only thing anyone without $500M in their bank account can do is to inflict emotional damage on the morons making the decisions.HateRed said:
OaktownBear, complaining and doing something about it are two different things. You know that.
There are two things that cause change. 1. $$$; 2. Enough people complaining vociferously that it sucks to go to work every day having everyone hate you so you do something different. To your point about doing something - it is clear that too many of our donors are morons or only care about sports no one else in the country cares about. The rank and file are too filled with people who don't care or who are like you and too "classy" to complain.
They don't listen to anybody besides the donors in part because they don't think anyone else cares enough and they are too short sighted to see losing 1000 $500 checks is as painful as losing 1 $500K check
Yeah seriously. The folks that think TD would have turned down a $1-1.5m/year raise because he loves his alma mater or is comfortable in Montana need a reality check.TheSouseFamily said:OaktownBear said:C'mon man. Berkeley is a beautiful city that is one of the most sought after housing markets in one of the most sought after housing markets. Telegraph and environs are a few square blocks.HateRed said:
Many coaches don't want to come to Berkeley because it's Berkeley. Telegraph and its environs ain't pretty. Add that to the entrance requirements and the candidate pool shrinks. I suspect CAL may have been interested in quite a few candidates, but the interest was not mutual.
Again. Decuire makes $175K at Montana. (and he was fine in Berkeley for 6 years). If he doesn't want the job (and I still doubt that being the case) how many Decuires are out there making chump change that maybe could look past Telegraph for a six fold pay increase? Guys that may not be proven but they aren't proven mediocre. You don't go for a "sure thing" (and Fox is not a sure thing) when that sure thing is mediocrity.
I'd go live in Syria for a few years if you wanted to 6x my compensation.
I agree there's some reservations about Cal but it's the academics and recruiting in the revenue sports which is a hard sell...not Telegraph Ave. Heck, most coaches will commute in from Orinda or Piedmont (like Dykes and Martin) and never set eyes on Telegraph.HateRed said:
Many coaches don't want to come to Berkeley because it's Berkeley. Telegraph and its environs ain't pretty. Add that to the entrance requirements and the candidate pool shrinks. I suspect CAL may have been interested in quite a few candidates, but the interest was not mutual.
Not quite true. Lou Campanelli was a good enough hire to get Cal out of a long, long losing hole MIke White was a good hire. Bruce Snyder was a good hire. Jeff Tedford was another good hire to get us out of a big hole. Ben Braun was good hire to get us off probation and recover reputation. Mike Montgomery was a good hire to get us out of mediocrity and win us a PAC10 Championship.OaktownBear said:Cal fans: This is total BS. This sucks. We need to do something about it!HateRed said:
Than why has this fan base not done anything about it? You got it...we are not Texas, Georgia, etc. etc. Hell, we're not even...well...
HateRed: Guys. The AD knows what he's doing. Stop Complaining
Me: The AD has sucked for 60 years why should we trust them
HateRed: And yet Cal fans don't complain so stop complaining.
Maybe the problem is there are too many Cal fans that excuse this bullshyte like you just did and not enough that care enough to hold them accountable like you refuse to do.
I'm not asking to be Texas. I'm asking that we stop being total morons. Be the best Cal we can be. Cal fans actually used to care (in some cases too much - our history isn't totally clean). Cal fans don't care anymore because Cal has sucked since people who are currently 78 years old were freshmen. The fact that you suck so bad for so long that people stop paying attention is not an excuse to keep sucking.
Besides some shaky hires, another fault of Cal AD's has been waiting too long to fire coaches, like like Elliot, Levy, Holmoe, Tedford, Edwards, Kuchen, Braun, and according to many, Jones.
SFCityBear
I want a coach who wants to hang out on Telegraph. It's awesome, and anyone who disagrees can $uck it.HateRed said:
Many coaches don't want to come to Berkeley because it's Berkeley. Telegraph and its environs ain't pretty. Add that to the entrance requirements and the candidate pool shrinks. I suspect CAL may have been interested in quite a few candidates, but the interest was not mutual.
Well, then, there is only one answer for you. Bill Walton. It would seem like a perfect gig for him. If you can get him to stop by Haas once a week, and give the players some tips, that would be good, too.bearsandgiants said:I want a coach who wants to hang out on Telegraph. It's awesome, and anyone who disagrees can $uck it.HateRed said:
Many coaches don't want to come to Berkeley because it's Berkeley. Telegraph and its environs ain't pretty. Add that to the entrance requirements and the candidate pool shrinks. I suspect CAL may have been interested in quite a few candidates, but the interest was not mutual.
SFCityBear
SFCityBear said:Well, then, there is only one answer for you. Bill Walton. It would seem like a perfect gig for him. If you can get him to stop by Haas once a week, and give the players some tips, that would be good, too.bearsandgiants said:I want a coach who wants to hang out on Telegraph. It's awesome, and anyone who disagrees can $uck it.HateRed said:
Many coaches don't want to come to Berkeley because it's Berkeley. Telegraph and its environs ain't pretty. Add that to the entrance requirements and the candidate pool shrinks. I suspect CAL may have been interested in quite a few candidates, but the interest was not mutual.
When LeBron James was on the Oakland Soldiers spending his summers in the Bay Area he would spend his free time hanging out on Telegraph with his teammates. Nothing like it in Cleveland. He loved it there, and that was a reason he said he would have gone to Cal if they had the one and done rule then.
Jaylen Brown felt similarly. Atlanta is not the same.
Shareef came for the Islamic Studies department. Hakeem said if he knew about it, he would have too.
We need a coach that understands that Berkeley can be GREATLY appealing and sell that to the recruits who would be receptive.
True - for those that think the AD messed this decision process up, don't understand what hurdles we have. JK works his butt off, is highly organized and respected in the Dept. Several logical candidates backed off, simply because they didn't believe they could consistently win here - fact. Then when you add in professors who weigh in on Kidd and their opposition to him, coupled with a lower salary package, no near term practice facility and difficult admissions policies - it becomes a tougher sell than one realizes.HateRed said:
Many coaches don't want to come to Berkeley because it's Berkeley. Telegraph and its environs ain't pretty. Add that to the entrance requirements and the candidate pool shrinks. I suspect CAL may have been interested in quite a few candidates, but the interest was not mutual.
I don't disagree. And have moved to acceptance. But that is why many of us believed that #teamtravis was the right call - a guy who got ALL of that, who had no learning curve when it came to "Cal being Cal" and had ringing endorsements from the kids that played for him.4thGenCal said:True - for those that think the AD messed this decision process up, don't understand what hurdles we have. JK works his butt off, is highly organized and respected in the Dept. Several logical candidates backed off, simply because they didn't believe they could consistently win here - fact. Then when you add in professors who weigh in on Kidd and their opposition to him, coupled with a lower salary package, no near term practice facility and difficult admissions policies - it becomes a tougher sell than one realizes.HateRed said:
Many coaches don't want to come to Berkeley because it's Berkeley. Telegraph and its environs ain't pretty. Add that to the entrance requirements and the candidate pool shrinks. I suspect CAL may have been interested in quite a few candidates, but the interest was not mutual.
It will be interesting to see what Fox does. It will also be interesting to see what he does if, after 3-4 years he finds success as a guy with no Cal roots.
We took a Furd guy and made him Cal coach, no big deal. Irvine, Moraga, and Montana are all wonder places to live and coach too.
It's NOT Telegraph! Cal's reputation as a school that has a clue in intercollegiate athletics has been tarnished in the last 10 years; hence, wanting to integrate "Berkeley" into the brand of athletics. The Cal people on campus have been neutered. Birgeneau will go down in history as the most misguided chancellor in history.HateRed said:
Many coaches don't want to come to Berkeley because it's Berkeley. Telegraph and its environs ain't pretty. Add that to the entrance requirements and the candidate pool shrinks. I suspect CAL may have been interested in quite a few candidates, but the interest was not mutual.
Sorry, why are you blaming Birgeneau? I don't know that specific narrative. (Dirks on the other hand....)
I can't envision Berkeley impacted Travis. Maybe he was luke worm for other reasons, such as he doesn't want Cal basketball, which is hot mess, to be his first P5 job, and he could use the Cal job to leverage more money out of Montana in the interim.OaktownBear said:C'mon man. Berkeley is a beautiful city that is one of the most sought after housing markets in one of the most sought after housing markets. Telegraph and environs are a few square blocks.HateRed said:
Many coaches don't want to come to Berkeley because it's Berkeley. Telegraph and its environs ain't pretty. Add that to the entrance requirements and the candidate pool shrinks. I suspect CAL may have been interested in quite a few candidates, but the interest was not mutual.
Again. Decuire makes $175K at Montana. (and he was fine in Berkeley for 6 years). If he doesn't want the job (and I still doubt that being the case) how many Decuires are out there making chump change that maybe could look past Telegraph for a six fold pay increase? Guys that may not be proven but they aren't proven mediocre. You don't go for a "sure thing" (and Fox is not a sure thing) when that sure thing is mediocrity.
Does Berkeley, the city or bureaucratic school, impact the desirably of coaching jobs? Sure, in some cases. But you sell what you are and Berkeley has some good points, such as academics or the Bay Area, which can be a draw as well. You don't want to hire someone who doesn't like Berkeley (thinking maybe Dykes), you want a fit. So no hiding what you are. Embrace it!
Reputation tarnished in the last 10 years? Try going back decades with that observation. Imagine trying to recruit players in the 60's with all the riots and Free Speech movement. The five year probation for the Isaac Curtis case, having to forfeit the1970 NCAA track championship. Do younger BI'rs even know about that? I've been coming to Cal football games since 1964, and a season ticket holder for over 40 years. When I started going to Cal games when still in high school in the 60's I was told that success and the Rose Bowl were for the USC's of the world, that Cal's academic standards were too tough to get good players, that Cal, with its standing at the top of ratings, was exceptional, but not in a good way for athletics. Funny how things don't change. None of that has deterred me from being incredibly loyal all these years, and I appreciate success in all of the sports. I don't know if this new basketball hire will be good or bad, but I'll support the team. There seem to be a number of prophets here who forecast nothing but doom and gloom; fortunately for them, the same standards for prophets in the Old Testament do not apply here. For those prophets, if their prophecies were not accurate they were put to death.
That tends to clarify what you have to say. (In the interests of full disclosure I also thought at the time that Tom Holmoe would turn things around. Eh, I'm not a good prophet either).
That tends to clarify what you have to say. (In the interests of full disclosure I also thought at the time that Tom Holmoe would turn things around. Eh, I'm not a good prophet either).
Tom Holme DID turn things around.
wifeisafurd said:I can't envision Berkeley impacted Travis. Maybe he was luke worm for other reasons, such as he doesn't want Cal basketball, which is hot mess, to be his first P5 job, and he could use the Cal job to leverage more money out of Montana in the interim.OaktownBear said:C'mon man. Berkeley is a beautiful city that is one of the most sought after housing markets in one of the most sought after housing markets. Telegraph and environs are a few square blocks.HateRed said:
Many coaches don't want to come to Berkeley because it's Berkeley. Telegraph and its environs ain't pretty. Add that to the entrance requirements and the candidate pool shrinks. I suspect CAL may have been interested in quite a few candidates, but the interest was not mutual.
Again. Decuire makes $175K at Montana. (and he was fine in Berkeley for 6 years). If he doesn't want the job (and I still doubt that being the case) how many Decuires are out there making chump change that maybe could look past Telegraph for a six fold pay increase? Guys that may not be proven but they aren't proven mediocre. You don't go for a "sure thing" (and Fox is not a sure thing) when that sure thing is mediocrity.
Does Berkeley, the city or bureaucratic school, impact the desirably of coaching jobs? Sure, in some cases. But you sell what you are and Berkeley has some good points, such as academics or the Bay Area, which can be a draw as well. You don't want to hire someone who doesn't like Berkeley (thinking maybe Dykes), you want a fit. So no hiding what you are. Embrace it!
Dykes enjoyed Berkeley (but lived in Piedmont). Braun loved/loves Berkeley. Holmoe and Tedford were the ones who complained about it as an issue for recruiting and lived in Danville.
Is DeCuire a sure thing? He might be a less expensive option (and maybe more interested in the job) but a good (not great) record at Montana, which has long dominated their conference matter who coaches there, doesn't look to me a lot better than a mediocre record in the SEC.OaktownBear said:C'mon man. Berkeley is a beautiful city that is one of the most sought after housing markets in one of the most sought after housing markets. Telegraph and environs are a few square blocks.HateRed said:
Many coaches don't want to come to Berkeley because it's Berkeley. Telegraph and its environs ain't pretty. Add that to the entrance requirements and the candidate pool shrinks. I suspect CAL may have been interested in quite a few candidates, but the interest was not mutual.
Again. Decuire makes $175K at Montana. (and he was fine in Berkeley for 6 years). If he doesn't want the job (and I still doubt that being the case) how many Decuires are out there making chump change that maybe could look past Telegraph for a six fold pay increase? Guys that may not be proven but they aren't proven mediocre. You don't go for a "sure thing" (and Fox is not a sure thing) when that sure thing is mediocrity.
For well over a decade, the football coaches would keep recruits away from Telegraph like it was the plague, even to the point of taking roundabout routes to get them to campus. Along comes Joe Kapp, who walks them down the street with a big smile on his face: "Have you ever seen anything like this?!? It's like Europe!"calumnus said:SFCityBear said:Well, then, there is only one answer for you. Bill Walton. It would seem like a perfect gig for him. If you can get him to stop by Haas once a week, and give the players some tips, that would be good, too.bearsandgiants said:I want a coach who wants to hang out on Telegraph. It's awesome, and anyone who disagrees can $uck it.HateRed said:
Many coaches don't want to come to Berkeley because it's Berkeley. Telegraph and its environs ain't pretty. Add that to the entrance requirements and the candidate pool shrinks. I suspect CAL may have been interested in quite a few candidates, but the interest was not mutual.
When LeBron James was on the Oakland Soldiers spending his summers in the Bay Area he would spend his free time hanging out on Telegraph with his teammates. Nothing like it in Cleveland. He loved it there, and that was a reason he said he would have gone to Cal if they had the one and done rule then.
Jaylen Brown felt similarly. Atlanta is not the same.
Shareef came for the Islamic Studies department. Hakeem said if he knew about it, he would have too.
We need a coach that understands that Berkeley can be GREATLY appealing and sell that to the recruits who would be receptive.
flipping the paradigm
59bear said:Is DeCuire a sure thing? He might be a less expensive option (and maybe more interested in the job) but a good (not great) record at Montana, which has long dominated their conference matter who coaches there, doesn't look to me a lot better than a mediocre record in the SEC.OaktownBear said:C'mon man. Berkeley is a beautiful city that is one of the most sought after housing markets in one of the most sought after housing markets. Telegraph and environs are a few square blocks.HateRed said:
Many coaches don't want to come to Berkeley because it's Berkeley. Telegraph and its environs ain't pretty. Add that to the entrance requirements and the candidate pool shrinks. I suspect CAL may have been interested in quite a few candidates, but the interest was not mutual.
Again. Decuire makes $175K at Montana. (and he was fine in Berkeley for 6 years). If he doesn't want the job (and I still doubt that being the case) how many Decuires are out there making chump change that maybe could look past Telegraph for a six fold pay increase? Guys that may not be proven but they aren't proven mediocre. You don't go for a "sure thing" (and Fox is not a sure thing) when that sure thing is mediocrity.
I like what I've seen and read about DeCuire's coaching style and chops. He is like a personable and positive Monty (an x's and o's genius), but far more flexible in his strategy depending on his team's strengths. A lot of the flexibility we saw Monty exhibit at Cal was due Travis's influence (a Monty team that showed zone!).
Fox's style reminds me a lot of Braun. We will see improvement next year (though we would have under Jones too).
calumnus said:
I like what I've seen and read about DeCuire's coaching style and chops. He is like a personable and positive Monty (an x's and o's genius), but far more flexible in his strategy depending on his team's strengths. A lot of the flexibility we saw Monty exhibit at Cal was due Travis's influence (a Monty team that showed zone!
I suppose Monty going from almost exclusively set plays to running mostly motion at Cal was Decure's doing as well?
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