Sueing, is (would be?) a huge loss. You could see discontent on his face at times during the season (and certainly at that meeting on the Fox video). But Sueing is a real student and from California (via Hawaii) to boot. Where does he go? Why is he leaving? (Sueing is a good "fit" at Cal.) Would he have left if Wyking stayed? What about if we had hired DeCuire?

Who else is leaving?

Bradley and Vanover are now the core of the team. I mean, they're staying, right?

Lot's of holes to fill. I'm not sure even I can stand another 20-loss season.

What-the-Fox?!?

Fox has a long, hard road ahead of him. Next season is going to be a Wyking Jones sized train wreck unless Fox can pull some miracle transfers and recruits out of thin air. I have little hope for next season, and only a slight bit more for the next. I hope he can coach up guys.

We need the mods to fill in the blanks here. This is shocking..Is it too early for Fox to resign on the grounds of temporary insanity??Did he take the job on a dare?

parentswerebears said:

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Next season is going to be a Wyking Jones sized train wreck unless Fox can pull some miracle transfers and recruits out of thin air.

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I was expecting us to be somewhat better IF we kept all of our players. With 2 gone, possibly more, I'm lowering my expectations. While it's possible to sign recruits in the spring I'm not optimistic about finding any who can help next season.

Big C said:

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Sueing, is (would be?) a huge loss. You could see discontent on his face at times during the season (and certainly at that meeting on the Fox video). But Sueing is a real student and from California (via Hawaii) to boot. Where does he go? Why is he leaving? (Sueing is a good "fit" at Cal.) Would he have left if Wyking stayed? What about if we had hired DeCuire?

Who else is leaving?

Bradley and Vanover are now the core of the team. I mean, they're staying, right?

Lot's of holes to fill. I'm not sure even I can stand another 20-loss season.

What-the-Fox?!?

---

At least if we do have a 20 loss season, I'll feel like better days are ahead (even if they aren't as good as I want them to be).

I don't want to play the what if game. I have better what ifs than DeCuire and I was told those guys weren't good enough. Then we got someone who wasn't even that good.

Big C said:

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Sueing, is (would be?) a huge loss

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A "huge loss" off a team that won three games? Hardly.

helltopay1 said:

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We need the mods to fill in the blanks here. This is shocking..Is it too early for Fox to resign on the grounds of temporary insanity??Did he take the job on a dare?

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Why? He hit the motherlode. He had no job and no one was hiring him. If he gets a 5 year contract for $8 million and replicates this years' win loss record, worst case he gets canned and walks away with $8 million.

Bear19 said:

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Big C said:

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Sueing, is (would be?) a huge loss

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A "huge loss" off a team that won three games? Hardly.

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Now you are going to play that game? A team that won three games can not afford to lose the guy who is probably their best player.

When we start taking basketball seriously.

Bear19 said:

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Big C said:

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Sueing, is (would be?) a huge loss

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A "huge loss" off a team that won three games? Hardly.

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By that ilogic, you would dump your best performing stock....after a tough
time on the stock market.

You would first fire your best employee, after your company has a bad first quarter."

It's not going to happen.

But what do I know? I'm, generally, aware that I'm ignorant about a whole bunch of things.
I've found it's a good idea to, every now and then, ask yourself...What's going on?"

Yeah don't worry guys, we don't need talent. We have a coach with the utmost integrity.

Big C said:

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Sueing, is (would be?) a huge loss. You could see discontent on his face at times during the season (and certainly at that meeting on the Fox video). But Sueing is a real student and from California (via Hawaii) to boot. Where does he go? Why is he leaving? (Sueing is a good "fit" at Cal.) Would he have left if Wyking stayed? What about if we had hired DeCuire?

Who else is leaving?

Bradley and Vanover are now the core of the team. I mean, they're staying, right?

Lot's of holes to fill. I'm not sure even I can stand another 20-loss season.

What-the-Fox?!?

---

Yeah, Cal is losing all these guys who were all-league. But, hey, they helped contribute to a 20 win season, so we will always have that.

mbBear said:

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Big C said:

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Sueing, is (would be?) a huge loss. You could see discontent on his face at times during the season (and certainly at that meeting on the Fox video). But Sueing is a real student and from California (via Hawaii) to boot. Where does he go? Why is he leaving? (Sueing is a good "fit" at Cal.) Would he have left if Wyking stayed? What about if we had hired DeCuire?

Who else is leaving?

Bradley and Vanover are now the core of the team. I mean, they're staying, right?

Lot's of holes to fill. I'm not sure even I can stand another 20-loss season.

What-the-Fox?!?

---

Yeah, Cal is losing all these guys who were all-league. But, hey, they helped contribute to a 20 win season, so we will always have that.

---

I'm glad that is not how Tedford viewed the players he inherited from Holmoe.

Fox needs to generate some positive news and start some momentum. Announcing Trent Johnson as head assistant ain't gonna cut it. Make a splash with your other assistants. Announce that recruits are still on board. Sign a new recruit. Get on social media. He's gotta make some noise and make his presence known.

Wondering: why mus Fox generate some positive news? What difference will that make? Is his job to assuage the anxieties of the ten people on this board who are apoplectic about his hire?

bearchamp said:

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Wondering: why mus Fox generate some positive news? What difference will that make? Is his job to assuage the anxieties of the ten people on this board who are apoplectic about his hire?

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Personally, I don't think FOX needs to generate positive news. He needs to win.

However, I hate to tell you this, but if you think there are only 10 apoplectic fans (there's more, but whatever) there aren't a lot that are happy either. In other words, there are a ton of people who just don't care. About the hire or about Cal basketball. It is for them that CAL needs to generate some positive news

This message from people that want nothing but positivity that everyone else, whether Sueing or McNeil, or fans unhappy with losing, can just get the hell out, well, you are getting your wish. People are getting the hell out. In droves. Good luck with that. Good luck building a practice facility or funding charter flights or any of the other things people want for this program with only purists supporting the program.

OaktownBear said:

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mbBear said:

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Big C said:

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Sueing, is (would be?) a huge loss. You could see discontent on his face at times during the season (and certainly at that meeting on the Fox video). But Sueing is a real student and from California (via Hawaii) to boot. Where does he go? Why is he leaving? (Sueing is a good "fit" at Cal.) Would he have left if Wyking stayed? What about if we had hired DeCuire?

Who else is leaving?

Bradley and Vanover are now the core of the team. I mean, they're staying, right?

Lot's of holes to fill. I'm not sure even I can stand another 20-loss season.

What-the-Fox?!?

---

Yeah, Cal is losing all these guys who were all-league. But, hey, they helped contribute to a 20 win season, so we will always have that.

---

I'm glad that is not how Tedford viewed the players he inherited from Holmoe.

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I'm glad that is not how Campanelli viewed the players he inherited from Kuchen.

etc.

etc.

Lol. No. He should be impressing the recruits he hopes to bring into the program. Let me guess, that's all happening in spaces we can't see. Oaktown has dropped a lot of knowledge about how Cal athletics has long since eroded any trust and goodwill with fans. Why should we assume this is any different? It's fair to wonder at the very least.

BC Calfan said:

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He's gotta make some noise and make his presence known.

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That, unfortunately, he has already done.

OaktownBear said:

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Dduster said:

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What a bunch of crybabies. Kid wants to leave, let him leave. We're starting over. Maybe a good house cleaning is necessary to get rid of the stench of the Jone's era. We've been last in the Pac 12 for two years how much worse can we get? And stop with the complaints about the new coach. You whiners are never pleased. Typical Cal Fans. Folks like You and the Administration that mirrors You are why we haven't been competitive in either basketball or football in five decades. Rose Bowl before You die? Get out of the way.

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Statements from your post:

Typical Cal Fans are whiners.
Whiners are never Pleased.
We haven't been competitive in either basketball or basketball in five decades.
Whining typical Cal fans are responsible for not being competitive.

Do you read the logic in your post before you hit the post button?

Let me focus you on this a little.

Cal hasn't been competitive for five decades.
Cal fans are never pleased.

again.

Cal hasn't been competitive for five decades
Cal fans are never pleased.

Are you starting to see it? One more time

Cal hasn't been competitive for five decades
Cal fans are never pleased.


Should I spell it out for you? Cal fans are not pleased when Cal is not competitive

So, I'm going to propose an alternate theory.

1. It is not true that "Typical Cal Fans" are whiners who are not pleased
2. Typical Cal alums do not care whether we are competitive in basketball and football
3. The small percentage of Cal alums that do care are split into 2 groups
4. Group A is displeased when we are not competitive and voices their displeasure in an attempt to hold the athletic department accountable for their actions
5. Group B wants to believe that if everyone had a positive attitude, pink fluffy unicorns will fly out of Jim Knowlton's butt and cast a spell on Cal football and basketball and make us competitive after five decades. Because what the program lacks is positive attitude, not competence. (what can I say. It's a Berkeley thing) Therefore, Group B sees Group A as the problem.
6. As a result of the large majority of the potential fan base being made up of apathetic alums + Group B, the people actually PAID TO PRODUCE A SUCCESSFUL DEPARTMENT are never held accountable for failing to do what they are paid to do.
7. That means you are the one complicit, not Group A

Corrections for the record:

1. The period of futility has been 6 decades
2. Within that period, there have been brief respites of competitiveness
3. Contrary to your statement that Cal fans are never pleased. They were pretty pleased from 2002-2006 in football. They were pretty pleased with both our Sweet Sixteen appearances. They were actually pretty pleased when Kevin Johnson took us to a mere NIT for the first time in decades. They were pretty pleased when Keith Smith lead a team to the NCAA for the first time in 30 years and beat Indiana. They were pretty pleased at the Citrus Bowl. They were pretty pleased with Chuck Muncie and Joe Roth. So the trend I'm seeing is that everyone is pretty pleased when we are competitive. So maybe, just maybe it is failing to be competitive that makes Cal fans "whine". Not Cal fans "whining" that makes Cal fail to be competitive.

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There is a decent chance the person you were responding to was being facetious. Otherwise...

OaktownBear said:

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Dduster said:

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What a bunch of crybabies. Kid wants to leave, let him leave. We're starting over. Maybe a good house cleaning is necessary to get rid of the stench of the Jone's era. We've been last in the Pac 12 for two years how much worse can we get? And stop with the complaints about the new coach. You whiners are never pleased. Typical Cal Fans. Folks like You and the Administration that mirrors You are why we haven't been competitive in either basketball or football in five decades. Rose Bowl before You die? Get out of the way.

---

Statements from your post:

Typical Cal Fans are whiners.
Whiners are never Pleased.
We haven't been competitive in either basketball or basketball in five decades.
Whining typical Cal fans are responsible for not being competitive.

Do you read the logic in your post before you hit the post button?

Let me focus you on this a little.

Cal hasn't been competitive for five decades.
Cal fans are never pleased.

again.

Cal hasn't been competitive for five decades
Cal fans are never pleased.

Are you starting to see it? One more time

Cal hasn't been competitive for five decades
Cal fans are never pleased.


Should I spell it out for you? Cal fans are not pleased when Cal is not competitive

So, I'm going to propose an alternate theory.

1. It is not true that "Typical Cal Fans" are whiners who are not pleased
2. Typical Cal alums do not care whether we are competitive in basketball and football
3. The small percentage of Cal alums that do care are split into 2 groups
4. Group A is displeased when we are not competitive and voices their displeasure in an attempt to hold the athletic department accountable for their actions
5. Group B wants to believe that if everyone had a positive attitude, pink fluffy unicorns will fly out of Jim Knowlton's butt and cast a spell on Cal football and basketball and make us competitive after five decades. Because what the program lacks is positive attitude, not competence. (what can I say. It's a Berkeley thing) Therefore, Group B sees Group A as the problem.
6. As a result of the large majority of the potential fan base being made up of apathetic alums + Group B, the people actually PAID TO PRODUCE A SUCCESSFUL DEPARTMENT are never held accountable for failing to do what they are paid to do.
7. That means you are the one complicit, not Group A

Corrections for the record:

1. The period of futility has been 6 decades
2. Within that period, there have been brief respites of competitiveness
3. Contrary to your statement that Cal fans are never pleased. They were pretty pleased from 2002-2006 in football. They were pretty pleased with both our Sweet Sixteen appearances. They were actually pretty pleased when Kevin Johnson took us to a mere NIT for the first time in decades. They were pretty pleased when Keith Smith lead a team to the NCAA for the first time in 30 years and beat Indiana. They were pretty pleased at the Citrus Bowl. They were pretty pleased with Chuck Muncie and Joe Roth. So the trend I'm seeing is that everyone is pretty pleased when we are competitive. So maybe, just maybe it is failing to be competitive that makes Cal fans "whine". Not Cal fans "whining" that makes Cal fail to be competitive.

---

How did I miss 'Pink Fluffy Unicorns" in my latest Downfall Video? Material for next time I guess.

I don't disagree with you but I think that there is a deeper problem here. It is clear (or else Cal would just drop any pretense and/or shut the whole sports program down) that there are funders are willing to give.

But ultimately those funders don't really care about basketball. They do care about football.

Evidence? Because really since BB (if not before) Cal has been willing to tolerate mediocre results and never invested much. I am actually pretty surprised that Harmon got replaced but that fundraising corresponded to the Jason Kidd era. It was a matter of foregone conclusions that we would be hiring from tier 2 or 3 after Jones got canned. No such assumption is made at Oregon, Zona, UCLA or possibly now USC.

Now interestingly, a glimmer of hope with Tedford and we are all in on renovating CMS - to the point of probably making really bad decisions (as opposed to opting for a UCLA approach). We wouldn't tolerate Tedford's burn out and pulled the trigger (arguably a year or 2 late but I understand that). Sonny gets shown the door as well after just 4 years.

I guess I understand this. From a $$ and cents stand point and given CMS's location and Fall weather in Berkeley I too would bet that Football brings more alumni and giving opportunities than weeknight basketball during January. It clearly brings in more $$ to the AD. As the landscape has changed I could make an argument that while Cal is very unlikely to ever compete for a national championship in Football it CAN compete for a conference championship and RB berth. We have been close in recent memory.

This leaves out the final challenge - that another/overlapping group of alumni that give care a LOT about non-revenue sports. Now they don't care to Furd's level to endow them all but they are very willing to throw their weight around and limit their donations. I am going to take arrows for this but here is how you know - VERY few P5 schools that would hope to compete in basketball at a national level would allow a swimming and diving complex (much less a softball field) get built before a dedicated practice facility was constructed. We can go through all the minor narratives as to why. The bottom line is that it demonstrates the priorities of the AD and the donors who stir the drink.


PS. There is an interesting data point on this from San Diego State. They don't invest relatively as much in Football. Weak conference, off campus (for now) stadium. No great way of connecting Aztec Football to the alumni. But with the arena on campus and some success they are "all in" on basketball after Steve F. showed what it could do and Aztec BB on campus works out great for their development activities.

How long realistically can we expect before assistants get named and the program gets up and running under Fox? How long before his team for this coming year starts to actually develop? Lastly, how many more do we expect to transfer out?

parentswerebears said:

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How long realistically can we expect before assistants get named and the program gets up and running under Fox? How long before his team for this coming year starts to actually develop? Lastly, how many more do we expect to transfer out?

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It's happening as we speak. Fox is already on the road meeting with committed recruits and from EricBear's tweet, it sounds like it went well with C4 and his family liked Fox's energy and vision. Sounds like Fox is also meeting shortly with Brown's family in Canada as well.

TheSouseFamily said:

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parentswerebears said:

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How long realistically can we expect before assistants get named and the program gets up and running under Fox? How long before his team for this coming year starts to actually develop? Lastly, how many more do we expect to transfer out?

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It's happening as we speak. Fox is already on the road meeting with committed recruits and from EricBear's tweet, it sounds like it went well with C4 and his family liked Fox's energy and vision. Sounds like Fox is also meeting shortly with Brown's family in Canada as well.

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Well, that is good. I hope he is stopping in on some grad transfers as well.