I think is is a total contradiction.Big C said:
Their political philosophy has always been leftist-but-libertarian (to the extent that that's not a contradiction). Maybe it's a philosophical thing.
Geez, some people on BI will go into melt-down mode if Top Dog closes.
Surprised you didn't know that the founder of Top Dog was Libertarian, so not taking the federal money is all about principle, not the current WH incumbent.SFCityBear said:
If there is a catch in taking the money, which does not appear to be the case, then I think not taking the money is misguided. It was not the Federal government or Donald Trump which ordered the shelter in place, which has devastated many businesses. It was the Berkeley City Health Officer who ordered the shelter in place, in cooperation with county and city health officers of other counties and cities, followed a few days later with a state wide order to shelter in place from Governor Newsom.
This is true around the nation, as governors and local officials of some counties, cities and states are the ones who have instituted shelter in place policies. The President has resisted issuing such orders, and the federal government has issued only guidelines. The President and the Federal government are now only trying to provide assistance to small businesses in trouble. If Top Dog management is Leftist in viewpoint, then that may be the reason they refuse the aid, simply because it comes from this President. If the management is Libertarian, the move not to take the money is foolhardy, if they want to stay in business, especially if the loans may be forgiven if Top Dog retains their employees, which seems to be the plan of the federal government. To do something that is self-destructive to their business, just because of contempt for the President or a political party, or the government in general, is suicide for the business, and harms its employees, which is just not necessary, or smart, IMO.
Thanks for the info. Didn't know that. I was going by the post by Bic C above which said the owner was "leftist-but- libertarian" ( and I don't know how one can be both).Big Dog said:Surprised you didn't know that the founder of Top Dog was Libertarian, so not taking the federal money is all about principle, not the current WH incumbent.SFCityBear said:
If there is a catch in taking the money, which does not appear to be the case, then I think not taking the money is misguided. It was not the Federal government or Donald Trump which ordered the shelter in place, which has devastated many businesses. It was the Berkeley City Health Officer who ordered the shelter in place, in cooperation with county and city health officers of other counties and cities, followed a few days later with a state wide order to shelter in place from Governor Newsom.
This is true around the nation, as governors and local officials of some counties, cities and states are the ones who have instituted shelter in place policies. The President has resisted issuing such orders, and the federal government has issued only guidelines. The President and the Federal government are now only trying to provide assistance to small businesses in trouble. If Top Dog management is Leftist in viewpoint, then that may be the reason they refuse the aid, simply because it comes from this President. If the management is Libertarian, the move not to take the money is foolhardy, if they want to stay in business, especially if the loans may be forgiven if Top Dog retains their employees, which seems to be the plan of the federal government. To do something that is self-destructive to their business, just because of contempt for the President or a political party, or the government in general, is suicide for the business, and harms its employees, which is just not necessary, or smart, IMO.
https://www.sfweekly.com/news/dont-tread-on-meat/
Libertarians hold many leftist positions when it comes to some social stuff: no drug laws, right to choose, gay marriage/rights, and the like. (Just don't tax a Libertarian to pay for them.) lolSFCityBear said:Thanks for the info. Didn't know that. I was going by the post by Bic C above which said the owner was "leftist-but- libertarian" ( and I don't know how one can be both).Big Dog said:Surprised you didn't know that the founder of Top Dog was Libertarian, so not taking the federal money is all about principle, not the current WH incumbent.SFCityBear said:
If there is a catch in taking the money, which does not appear to be the case, then I think not taking the money is misguided. It was not the Federal government or Donald Trump which ordered the shelter in place, which has devastated many businesses. It was the Berkeley City Health Officer who ordered the shelter in place, in cooperation with county and city health officers of other counties and cities, followed a few days later with a state wide order to shelter in place from Governor Newsom.
This is true around the nation, as governors and local officials of some counties, cities and states are the ones who have instituted shelter in place policies. The President has resisted issuing such orders, and the federal government has issued only guidelines. The President and the Federal government are now only trying to provide assistance to small businesses in trouble. If Top Dog management is Leftist in viewpoint, then that may be the reason they refuse the aid, simply because it comes from this President. If the management is Libertarian, the move not to take the money is foolhardy, if they want to stay in business, especially if the loans may be forgiven if Top Dog retains their employees, which seems to be the plan of the federal government. To do something that is self-destructive to their business, just because of contempt for the President or a political party, or the government in general, is suicide for the business, and harms its employees, which is just not necessary, or smart, IMO.
https://www.sfweekly.com/news/dont-tread-on-meat/
It won't shut down BI like it did in 2006 for the Tennessee game, but it will be close.Big C said:
Their political philosophy has always been leftist-but-libertarian (to the extent that that's not a contradiction). Maybe it's a philosophical thing.
Geez, some people on BI will go into melt-down mode if Top Dog closes.
helltopay1 said:
Libertarian political philosophy is much more closely aligned with republican/conservative philosophy. Ask Poor George Bush..Ross Perot, the eccentric got 18% of the vote, and that enabled someone named Bill Clinton ( an obscure randy, sexually adventuresome from Arkansas ) to sneak into the White with a paltry 43 % of the vote. Every expert maintains that george would have beaten Clinton if Perot had stayed out of the race. so, because of Perot, we got both Bill but also Hilary--When they came to washington DC, they had about $25.00 to their name--they are now worth over $300 million dollars----so, every night when Bill & Hilary go to bed ( of course, they live in different places) they get on their knees and thank good old Ross Perot!!!!
Yeah - I don't want to turn BI into politics but Libertarianism is VERY different from the modern GOP (and even a lot of the pre-Trump GOP) - - it categorically rejects a lot of the moralism that is at the heart of the social conservative wing of the GOP, is much more willing to accept immigration than the nationalist wing of the GOP and is highly skeptical about an active and robustly military foreign policy (thus at odds with the Neocon wing of the GOP). Where is shares SOME affinity (but honestly this seems to have gone largely by the wayside as a governing principal of the GOP) is skepticism about regulation and the need for the modern administrative state. I say that because at LEAST since Bush 2 the GOP has been very willing to expand the federal governments reach into areas and deregulation has, it seems, been more reflective of raw political power and lobbying rather than a chohesive idea that market based solutions will lead to more efficient outcoes and distribution of utility.calumnus said:helltopay1 said:
Libertarian political philosophy is much more closely aligned with republican/conservative philosophy. Ask Poor George Bush..Ross Perot, the eccentric got 18% of the vote, and that enabled someone named Bill Clinton ( an obscure randy, sexually adventuresome from Arkansas ) to sneak into the White with a paltry 43 % of the vote. Every expert maintains that george would have beaten Clinton if Perot had stayed out of the race. so, because of Perot, we got both Bill but also Hilary--When they came to washington DC, they had about $25.00 to their name--they are now worth over $300 million dollars----so, every night when Bill & Hilary go to bed ( of course, they live in different places) they get on their knees and thank good old Ross Perot!!!!
Once upon a time.
The GOP is now a Trump cult and the opposite of libertarian: anti-free trade, $trillion dollar deficits, attacks on the free press, anti-states' rights, anti-immigrant, government control of who you love, and a strong central government with a president whose "power is absolute" and is not subject to law.
Yes, the current Republican party is less aligned with the Libertarian Party...than say the current Democratic party is aligned with the Socialist Party: anti-fair trade, tens-trillions dollar deficits, the weaponization of the press, anti-states rights x 10, open borders, and a central government that controls what you should think and just about every other aspect of our lives.calumnus said:helltopay1 said:
Libertarian political philosophy is much more closely aligned with republican/conservative philosophy. Ask Poor George Bush..Ross Perot, the eccentric got 18% of the vote, and that enabled someone named Bill Clinton ( an obscure randy, sexually adventuresome from Arkansas ) to sneak into the White with a paltry 43 % of the vote. Every expert maintains that george would have beaten Clinton if Perot had stayed out of the race. so, because of Perot, we got both Bill but also Hilary--When they came to washington DC, they had about $25.00 to their name--they are now worth over $300 million dollars----so, every night when Bill & Hilary go to bed ( of course, they live in different places) they get on their knees and thank good old Ross Perot!!!!
Once upon a time.
The GOP is now a Trump cult and the opposite of libertarian: anti-free trade, $trillion dollar deficits, attacks on the free press, anti-states' rights, anti-immigrant, government control of who you love, and a strong central government with a president whose "power is absolute" and is not subject to law.
50+ years of accumulated grill smegma.HoopDreams said:
one thing I could never really figure out is why top dogs are so good...
I know part of it is the grill buns and quality dogs
But I've bought some from home, including the buns, high quality mustard and fresh chopped onions, and tried to grill them myself, but they are never the same ... same experience as a die-hard top dog friend
I think it's something about having an industrial grill that is extremely hot
