uh oh, I've already spent $12 on only 3 players...

https://instagr.am/p/B_z-lb8HGcx

I'll take Kidd for $5, Gray for $4, Murray for $4, Jorge for $2, and Brian Hendrick (who apparently is free of charge).

Jerome Randle appears to be free as well, not to mention two-time all-conference Patrick Christopher. How about those two, plus Keith Smith, Leonard Taylor and Ivan Rabb....

That's a FREE-ass team! Now, what do I do with the $15 burning a hole in my wallet? Well I WON'T spend it at the concessions counter at Haas, that's for sure, and I'm not from the Top-Dog-is-God school that lots of folks here study at. Maybe I'll invent a time machine and go have 3-4 triples and a full course meal at Bertola's.

Pac POY's Lampley, Powe, and Jorge appear to be steals for $8 total, so now I just need a stellar pg and a cheap wing for $7. I'll take Kidd and Wallace. Hmmm, I think we'll be seeing a lot of zones.

$15 is not a big enough budget to allow at least one of the $5 players. You can't do it. Therfore:

Jorge at PG $2
Ed Gray at SG at $4 (This is the position with the least to pick from)
Lamond at SF at $4 (Scoring,scoring,scoring)
Leon at PF $3 (Best Value)
McNamara at C $2. With all that scoring all we need is for Mark (RIP) to clog the boards.

Bench players at $0. Jerome Randle, Brian Hendrick, Leonard Taylor, Jackie Ridgle (bargain) and Russ Critchfield (super bargain if we're playing with a 3 point line).

From players on the board:

• PG Gutierrez - $2
• G Chenier - $5
• G Gray - $4
• C/PF McNamara - $2
• C/PF Sampson - $2

Damn we have no shooters and Crabbe's contract is bad value. I don't see how you don't build the roster around Kidd and Murray. Gonna need to run and gun.

Kidd
Murray
McNamara
Gutierrez
Wallace

Who is your coach?

If you have this many stars on your team, you better have a coach who is a star. Otherwise, there won't be enough basketballs to go around.

I'd like to see the 1971 team, Charlie Johnson, Phil Chenier, Jackie Ridgle, Ansley Truitt, and John Coughran, three East Bay boys, one from the Peninsula, and one from Arkansas, but this time coached by Pete Newell.

Designed for the current game with 4 out and good D. Kidd can facilitate enough scoring from this group (I hope).

Kidd $5
Charlie Johnson $3
Gutierrez $2
Wallace $2
Stewart $3

Jorge
Lampley
Stewart
Ed Gray
Crabbe

Spread the Floor and Dump it into Stewart with Gray and Crabbe lighting it up and Lamps eating up the glass. Jorge vs Kidd would have been a fun one.

Civil Bear said:

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Pac POY's Lampley, Powe, and Jorge appear to be steals for $8 total, so now I just need a stellar pg and a cheap wing for $7. I'll take Kidd and Wallace. Hmmm, I think we'll be seeing a lot of zones.

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Not to nitpick, but did Powe win POY? I wanna say he was in the conversation, but didn't get it. (I hope I'm wrong and he did.)

MinotStateBeav said:

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Jorge
Lampley
Stewart
Ed Gray
Crabbe

Spread the Floor and Dump it into Stewart with Gray and Crabbe lighting it up and Lamps eating up the glass. Jorge vs Kidd would have been a fun one.

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I can see having Stewart for defense, but why would you dump it in to Stewart at the other end? He only averaged 4 points a game at Cal.

BeachedBear said:

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Designed for the current game with 4 out and good D. Kidd can facilitate enough scoring from this group (I hope).

Kidd $5
Charlie Johnson $3
Gutierrez $2
Wallace $2
Stewart $3

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With Kidd, Jorge, and CJ, that would be the toughest perimeter defense from the all-time Cal roster. Only Al Buch might be close to those guys. If you want to play 4 out, don't you need better three point shooters? Kidd and Jorge were barely average, and Wallace well below average shooting threes. Johnson is your only good one. I'm sure he could shoot threes, but when he played, both at Cal and the NBA, there was no three-point line. Would you have enough rebounding?

I'll go:
Kidd $5
Jorge $2
Gray $4
Powe $3(ridiculous that he is only $3!!!)
Richard Soloman $0

Big C said:

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Civil Bear said:

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Pac POY's Lampley, Powe, and Jorge appear to be steals for $8 total, so now I just need a stellar pg and a cheap wing for $7. I'll take Kidd and Wallace. Hmmm, I think we'll be seeing a lot of zones.

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Not to nitpick, but did Powe win POY? I wanna say he was in the conversation, but didn't get it. (I hope I'm wrong and he did.)

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I think you are right about Powe. Crabbe was a PAC POY. So was Randle. Maybe Civil Bear might be interested in them.

SFCityBear said:

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Big C said:

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Civil Bear said:

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Pac POY's Lampley, Powe, and Jorge appear to be steals for $8 total, so now I just need a stellar pg and a cheap wing for $7. I'll take Kidd and Wallace. Hmmm, I think we'll be seeing a lot of zones.

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Not to nitpick, but did Powe win POY? I wanna say he was in the conversation, but didn't get it. (I hope I'm wrong and he did.)

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I think you are right about Powe. Crabbe was a PAC POY. So was Randle. Maybe Civil Bear might be interested in them.

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I stand corrected on Powe, as you typically need to be near the top of the conference standings and a senior to win POY. Still, the way he dominated as a junior (20ppg & 10 rpg), my money would be on him to win POY had he returned for his final year.

But your shot misses the mark. Randle isn't on the list and Crabbe isn't a steal at $4.

SFCityBear said:

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BeachedBear said:

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Designed for the current game with 4 out and good D. Kidd can facilitate enough scoring from this group (I hope).

Kidd $5
Charlie Johnson $3
Gutierrez $2
Wallace $2
Stewart $3

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With Kidd, Jorge, and CJ, that would be the toughest perimeter defense from the all-time Cal roster. Only Al Buch might be close to those guys. If you want to play 4 out, don't you need better three point shooters? Kidd and Jorge were barely average, and Wallace well below average shooting threes. Johnson is your only good one. I'm sure he could shoot threes, but when he played, both at Cal and the NBA, there was no three-point line. Would you have enough rebounding?

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Lack of 3 pt shooting is definitely a compromise, but with 4 out, you can open up the middle for penetration from the perimeter (which all of those guys excelled at IMHO). As for rebounding, Wallace, Kidd and Gut were some of the best. Also those guys can defend multiple positions and switch everywhere.

Also, wrt lack of 3FG% opponents may choose a packline defense. Doing so against this perimeter would be foolish as any of them could shred it.

Finally, the list as provided really had few shooters and all of them were overvalued IMHO. Upon further review, I could swap Stewart and Johnson for Anderson and Sampson. Not sure the overall improvement in threes (Anderson over Johnson) would be worth the defense.

Working from this list is a good exercise in figuring out how you want to play the game, I agree with the observation that the list, like Cal in general in recent years, is lacking in outside gunnery. That said, I cam up with two lists:

Inside-out lineup:

C-Mark McNamara
PF-Sean Marks
SF-Ed Gray
SG-Jorge Gutierrez
PG-Charlie Johnson

Drive & KIck/Run & Gun lineup:

C-Francisco Elson
PF-Sean Lampley
SF-Ed Gray
SG-Tyrone Wallace
PG-Jason Kidd

Gray is on both lists, because you have to have one outside shooter, and other than Rusty, he's probably the best pure shooter Cal has ever had.

The top line-up depends on dumping it in to McNamara, then passing it out if he's doubled. Marks was good playing from the top of the key as a shooter or a passer, and was also a good interior passer. CJ also has a bit of a shot. Jorge is here as a value player, and for his defense. I would have put Chenier there if he was cheaper.

The bottom lineup starts every play with Kidd beating his man off the dribble, or it scores a ton in transition. That's why I have Elson, a rim protector who could also really run the floor. With this lineup, I might zone press a la the 1964 UCLA team.

Obviously, if we can add other players for free, the possibilities multiply exponentially.

Jeff82 said:

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Working from this list is a good exercise in figuring out how you want to play the game, I agree with the observation that the list, like Cal in general in recent years, is lacking in outside gunnery. That said, I cam up with two lists:

Inside-out lineup:

C-Mark McNamara
PF-Sean Marks
SF-Ed Gray
SG-Jorge Gutierrez
PG-Charlie Johnson

Drive & KIck/Run & Gun lineup:

C-Francisco Elson
PF-Sean Lampley
SF-Ed Gray
SG-Tyrone Wallace
PG-Jason Kidd

Gray is on both lists, because you have to have one outside shooter, and other than Rusty, he's probably the best pure shooter Cal has ever had.

The top line-up depends on dumping it in to McNamara, then passing it out if he's doubled. Marks was good playing from the top of the key as a shooter or a passer, and was also a good interior passer. CJ also has a bit of a shot. Jorge is here as a value player, and for his defense. I would have put Chenier there if he was cheaper.

The bottom lineup starts every play with Kidd beating his man off the dribble, or it scores a ton in transition. That's why I have Elson, a rim protector who could also really run the floor. With this lineup, I might zone press a la the 1964 UCLA team.

Obviously, if we can add other players for free, the possibilities multiply exponentially.

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Interesting. I recall Grey being much more of a scorer than a pure shooter.

Edit: Checking the 1996 team stats, Gray was behind everyone in the rotation not named McGruder in 3pt% (.302).

JKidd-PG $5
Murray-SF $4
Powe-PF $3
J. Sampson-C $2
Joe Ship-SG. $1 off of the Waiver Wire.
That team goes deep in tourney play. 15 bucks well spent.

This is a fun exercise, but I feel the need to point out that the shopping list is skewed towards players who had NBA careers, or at least were NBA draft picks. For example, it would be EASY to name 2-3 dozen Cal players who were better in college than Francisco Elson. Same with others on the list.

Why do I feel the need to point this out? I dunno. Maybe I'm just tired of sheltering-in-place and feel like being a s_ _ _.

Big C said:

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This is a fun exercise, but I feel the need to point out that the shopping list is skewed towards players who had NBA careers, or at least were NBA draft picks. For example, it would be EASY to name 2-3 dozen Cal players who were better in college than Francisco Elson. Same with others on the list.

Why do I feel the need to point this out? I dunno. Maybe I'm just tired of sheltering-in-place and feel like being a s_ _ _.

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You are right. And looking at it another way, we could name some who were better in the NBA than they were at Cal, especially the ones who left Cal early to enter the NBA draft.

Gkhoury2325 said:

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JKidd-PG $5
Murray-SF $4
Powe-PF $3
J. Sampson-C $2
Joe Ship-SG. $1 off of the Waiver Wire.
That team goes deep in tourney play. 15 bucks well spent.

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Well, three games deep anyway. Who would coach them, Braun or Bozeman? I'd say the Braun team might go deeper in the NCAA. Bozeman couldn't coach his way out of a paper bag. Why not pick a better center than Sampson? There were plenty. Truitt, Presley, McNamara, Imhoff, Doughty, McIntosh, Asplund, McKeen, Rabb, Solomon, Hughes, and so forth.

I don't know a lot of the the older big men who played for the beards. I do remember I went with potential. Sampson has a lot of athleticism and shot blocking ability. Unfortunately, he declared way too early before he could develop. His development would of improved vastly if he played with a distributor like JKidd.

I'm not sure who would of of coached this team. Bozeman, despite the cheating let the kids play. Braun had a stagnant offensive system. I think you let these guys run and push them like a UNLV. Great defense, rebounding, good shooter with Murray and Shipp. JKidd was a decent shooter too. This team has some length and can would be exciting to see play.. JMO.

Gkhoury2325 said:

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I don't know a lot of the the older big men who played for the beards. I do remember I went with potential. Sampson has a lot of athleticism and shot blocking ability. Unfortunately, he declared way too early before he could develop. His development would of improved vastly if he played with a distributor like JKidd.

I'm not sure who would of of coached this team. Bozeman, despite the cheating let the kids play. Braun had a stagnant offensive system. I think you let these guys run and push them like a UNLV. Great defense, rebounding, good shooter with Murray and Shipp. JKidd was a decent shooter too. This team has some length and can would be exciting to see play.. JMO.

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Sampson left early because he had chronic back problems and wanted to cash in while he could still play.

I don't know that Braun's teams were stagnant when he had the horses like in his first couple of seasons at Cal, and when Shipp, Wethers, and Tamir were upperclassmen. He certainly slowed things down when his only reliable scorers were posts though (Lampley, Powe)

interesting that a couple picked Stewart

I would pick Powe over Stewart

also the only shooters are crabbe and anderson, but anderson is too expensive and there are better picks from the top line

tthompson993 said:

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Hi Fellow Bears, I must be really old but at one time Kevin Johnson was the second best point guard in the NBA behind Magic Johnson. He always outscored John Stockton when they met and often out assisted him as well. The only player on this list better than KJ is Jason Kidd if you are including both college and pro. Yet I don't see him included in anyone's list. Like I said, I must be really old and I was very big Phil Chenier and Charlie Johnson fans but KJ was just better than either of them.

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No knock on KJ, but the way the list is priced you can only have a single $5 player and that has to be Kidd as BearGreg points out - he makes every 3-star play like a 4-star so has unique value. Also a better defender and rebounder than KJ (but KJ was a better shooter in college). If Kidd was not available, I would have used KJ.

The list and pricing are flawed, but that's what makes it kind of fun and forces one not to overthink it. But it DOES force one to pass on the likes of KJ or Powe or Murray - even if they are faves.

Hope I don't get in trouble for saying this, but I say shut down the men's cross country team, that moves the budget up to $16 - maybe $17. Just a shelter-in-place kinda thought.

BeachedBear said:

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tthompson993 said:

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Hi Fellow Bears, I must be really old but at one time Kevin Johnson was the second best point guard in the NBA behind Magic Johnson. He always outscored John Stockton when they met and often out assisted him as well. The only player on this list better than KJ is Jason Kidd if you are including both college and pro. Yet I don't see him included in anyone's list. Like I said, I must be really old and I was very big Phil Chenier and Charlie Johnson fans but KJ was just better than either of them.

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No knock on KJ, but the way the list is priced you can only have a single $5 player and that has to be Kidd as BearGreg points out - he makes every 3-star play like a 4-star so has unique value. Also a better defender and rebounder than KJ (but KJ was a better shooter in college). If Kidd was not available, I would have used KJ.

The list and pricing are flawed, but that's what makes it kind of fun and forces one not to overthink it. But it DOES force one to pass on the likes of KJ or Powe or Murray - even if they are faves.

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Agree Beach...like having a salary cap for your college team !

HoopDreams said:

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BeachedBear said:

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tthompson993 said:

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Hi Fellow Bears, I must be really old but at one time Kevin Johnson was the second best point guard in the NBA behind Magic Johnson. He always outscored John Stockton when they met and often out assisted him as well. The only player on this list better than KJ is Jason Kidd if you are including both college and pro. Yet I don't see him included in anyone's list. Like I said, I must be really old and I was very big Phil Chenier and Charlie Johnson fans but KJ was just better than either of them.

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No knock on KJ, but the way the list is priced you can only have a single $5 player and that has to be Kidd as BearGreg points out - he makes every 3-star play like a 4-star so has unique value. Also a better defender and rebounder than KJ (but KJ was a better shooter in college). If Kidd was not available, I would have used KJ.

The list and pricing are flawed, but that's what makes it kind of fun and forces one not to overthink it. But it DOES force one to pass on the likes of KJ or Powe or Murray - even if they are faves.

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Agree Beach...like having a salary cap for your college team !

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And that may be coming in the future to college basketball and football, I'm sad to say.

Civil Bear said:

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Gkhoury2325 said:

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I don't know a lot of the the older big men who played for the beards. I do remember I went with potential. Sampson has a lot of athleticism and shot blocking ability. Unfortunately, he declared way too early before he could develop. His development would of improved vastly if he played with a distributor like JKidd.

I'm not sure who would of of coached this team. Bozeman, despite the cheating let the kids play. Braun had a stagnant offensive system. I think you let these guys run and push them like a UNLV. Great defense, rebounding, good shooter with Murray and Shipp. JKidd was a decent shooter too. This team has some length and can would be exciting to see play.. JMO.

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Sampson left early because he had chronic back problems and wanted to cash in while he could still play.

I don't know that Braun's teams were stagnant when he had the horses like in his first couple of seasons at Cal, and when Shipp, Wethers, and Tamir were upperclassmen. He certainly slowed things down when his only reliable scorers were posts though (Lampley, Powe)

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And in Braun's first season, 1996-97, he had Ed Gray, Tony Gonzales, Al Grigsby, Sean Marks, Randy Duck, Prentice McGruder, Michael Stewart, Anwar McQueen, and Kenyon Jones. They went 23-9, finished 3rd in conference, and knocked off Princeton, #20 Villanova, and lost to #4 North Carolina by 6 in the Sweet 16 round. Every bit as good as and maybe better than the Jason Kidd-Lamond Murray Sweet 16 team of Todd Bozeman, with less highly rated talent. In my opinion the best Cal team since the Pete Newell era, but few people talk about them, because of the lack of future NBA stars.

SFCityBear said:

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HoopDreams said:

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BeachedBear said:

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tthompson993 said:

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Hi Fellow Bears, I must be really old but at one time Kevin Johnson was the second best point guard in the NBA behind Magic Johnson. He always outscored John Stockton when they met and often out assisted him as well. The only player on this list better than KJ is Jason Kidd if you are including both college and pro. Yet I don't see him included in anyone's list. Like I said, I must be really old and I was very big Phil Chenier and Charlie Johnson fans but KJ was just better than either of them.

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No knock on KJ, but the way the list is priced you can only have a single $5 player and that has to be Kidd as BearGreg points out - he makes every 3-star play like a 4-star so has unique value. Also a better defender and rebounder than KJ (but KJ was a better shooter in college). If Kidd was not available, I would have used KJ.

The list and pricing are flawed, but that's what makes it kind of fun and forces one not to overthink it. But it DOES force one to pass on the likes of KJ or Powe or Murray - even if they are faves.

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Agree Beach...like having a salary cap for your college team !

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And that may be coming in the future to college basketball and football, I'm sad to say.

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amazing but true!

gotta have something to maintain at least the illusion of competitive balance

Gkhoury2325 said:

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I don't know a lot of the the older big men who played for the beards. I do remember I went with potential. Sampson has a lot of athleticism and shot blocking ability. Unfortunately, he declared way too early before he could develop. His development would of improved vastly if he played with a distributor like JKidd.

I'm not sure who would of of coached this team. Bozeman, despite the cheating let the kids play. Braun had a stagnant offensive system. I think you let these guys run and push them like a UNLV. Great defense, rebounding, good shooter with Murray and Shipp. JKidd was a decent shooter too. This team has some length and can would be exciting to see play.. JMO.

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I agree with you on all this. My only criticism of Sampson's ability was that he had trouble making a two-footer. My opinion is also colored or jaded by the fact that I have little respect for players who leave school after a year. I think they take advantage of their teammates to get exposure for the draft. If they want to think of themselves first and their teammates second, I'd admire them more if they played an individual sport like track and field, tennis or golf, and not a team sport, like basketball.