Charmin Bashers - Time to Step Up

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RedlessWardrobe
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7:35a, 1/10/25
Since we are now past the halfway mark of the schedule, I think anyone following this team can come to two simple conclusions:

1)This team is extremely talented.
2)This team is extremely well coached

Now is the time for all of the Charmin bashers (that have been rather silent), to step up here and make their one definitive statement acknowledging that their recommendation that Charmin be dismissed was the wrong one. Just one statement, that's all that is required.
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CalFanatic
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7:53a, 1/10/25
I often forget how badly Gottlieb left the program.

She left us high and dry after failing to secure 10+ recruits, and when she saw the writing on the wall, she bailed as quickly as she could. She likely would have faced a losing a season in 2019 looking back on the roster. Add the challenges of the pandemic afterward, and it only made things worse.

I imagine these last 2 seasons are more a reflection of Charmin. 19-15 and 16-2 is nothing to scoff at. This team is very good.
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Shocky1
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7:58a, 1/10/25
redless, an inexperienced charmin created her career consecutive streak of losing seasons (by large margins) by turning over the staff every year & recruiting tiny undersized guards that could not defend at a high level & bigs that wuz immobile that lacked coordination

hopefully she's learned from these mistakes, nobody is rooting against her, she's failed in every year until now so let's just enjoy this potentially epic season, ok?
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RedlessWardrobe
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In reply to Shocky1 • 8:07a, 1/10/25
Shocky1 said:
redless, an inexperienced charmin created her career consecutive streak of losing seasons (by large margins) by turning over the staff every year & recruiting tiny undersized guards that could not defend at a high level & bigs that wuz immobile that lacked coordination

hopefully she's learned from these mistakes, nobody is rooting against her, she's failed in every year until now so let's just enjoy this potentially epic season, ok?
Shocky, I understand your point, but as CalFanatic says, she inherited a tough situation.

And again, this is not about Charmin being flawless in the early years, and obviously no one is rooting against her. I'm simply saying that the decision to retain her appears to be the right one, and I know that many of the posters here that were overly critical here having seemingly disappeared. We are all enjoying this season, this was simply just a point I wanted to make. That's all.
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wvitbear
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8:11a, 1/10/25
Shocky, you don't think last season was a success since we made the post season.

Williams is an undersized guard. you don't want her. The rest of the team is the same size it was last year.
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Finnish Oski
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8:21a, 1/10/25
At the end of last season I didn't believe she merited a contract extension. I was wrong. As I posted last night after the game, Charmin has improved as a coach and assembled an excellent staff. I also don't think this year is a one-off. Based on next year's recruiting class it appears that the program is heading in the right direction. I'm so happy to have been wrong about Charmin, especially since she's a former neighbor who I got to know when she first arrived at Cal. Thanks for starting this thread RW, it's most appropriate. Go Bears!!!
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Shocky1
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8:27a, 1/10/25
wvit, elite teams can survive with 1 tiny point guard like kayla or leilani...more than 1 is why charmin gotta pac 12 record of 17-62, that experiment failed

DEFENSE wins basketball games & other than a point guard small guards cannot defend at a high level
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wvitbear
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8:48a, 1/10/25
When Arizona was the runnerup to Stanford for the NCAA chhampionship, they had a 5'4" point guard who was the Pac 12 defensive player of the year.
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RedlessWardrobe
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In reply to Shocky1 • 9:00a, 1/10/25
Shocky1 said:
wvit, elite teams can survive with 1 tiny point guard like kayla or leilani...more than 1 is why charmin gotta pac 12 record of 17-62, that experiment failed

DEFENSE wins basketball games & other than a point guard small guards cannot defend at a high level
As you said yourself Shocky, can't we now just enjoy this epic season?
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RedlessWardrobe
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In reply to Finnish Oski • 9:02a, 1/10/25
Finnish Oski said:
At the end of last season I didn't believe she merited a contract extension. I was wrong. As I posted last night after the game, Charmin has improved as a coach and assembled an excellent staff. I also don't think this year is a one-off. Based on next year's recruiting class it appears that the program is heading in the right direction. I'm so happy to have been wrong about Charmin, especially since she's a former neighbor who I got to know when she first arrived at Cal. Thanks for starting this thread RW, it's most appropriate. Go Bears!!!
Fin Oski, I give you credit for that. And now, like Don MacLean likes to say, "lets move on."
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gljone
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2:40p, 1/10/25
When Anigwe was finished, the writing on the wall was Gottlieb was going to head to greener pastures.

Thus, the (im)perfect storm hit:

  • Lost an all-world player
  • Lost a pretty good recruiter and coach
  • With coaching changes, players leave because the coach/staff that recruited them are no longer there

As a result, any accrual of program credibility goes bye-bye, for better or worse.

When Charmin was hired, she was faced with:

  • Her own inexperience
  • A limited player pool/talent
  • A conference that had established high-ranking teams
  • Lack of credibilty

Oh...then a pandemic hits.

This last couple of seasons have shown incremental improvement. Now that Charmin has been able to get players she evaluated, we are now seeing the fruits of that labor. Have all her recruits turned out for the better? Of course not. But I ask how many first round picks in any professional sport is a guaranteed star?

I am really encouraged with the direction of the program and it's in good hands from a coaching perspective. And I am confident as long as the players coming in are of the same character, we should be seeing a pretty good product on the court.

Every coach needs a span of time to figure it out. It's been 5 years and I think Charmin has a lot figured out. Is she there yet? Of course not. Nobody has all the answers. But the incremental growth in her role plus the addition of players she has the rapport with, I repeat - I am encouraged.

From a fan attendance perspective, the numbers are growing. Maybe not at the rate we want, but they are growing. Again, an encouraging sign.

Go Bears!
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Bear8995
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3:48p, 1/10/25
As one who has criticized Charmin and the team's play, I will gladly admit that I'm glad she is still coaching us and I am very happy to see the results this year. It was never personal. Really respect Charmin as a person and have told her so. Just wish the team played better and she won more. Feel the same about Madsen.

Saying this team is "extremely" well coached is a bit far for me though. Too many turnovers for one. Too many blow bys with no help D for another (we still have pretty poor closing out technique and defensive sliding positioning). Before I felt we beat ourselves way too often. I don't see that as much anymore. I do notice more movement on offense leading to better shots, and less risky passing angles being taken. I still don't love some of the shot selection tbh. We are handling defensive pressure better than we did earlier in the season. I'd like to see that continue to improve.

I have concerns about our depth so hopefully the bench is improving at practice as they aren't getting much game time. We will need them to make a postseason run.

Love what I'm seeing from Onyiah lately. She has really elevated her game.
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wvitbear
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4:03p, 1/10/25
When Gotleib left, there were several 5 star recruits on the team. K. Smith. The recruit from Folsom, and J Brown. Plus they had several 5 star recruits the next year.
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CoffeeBear
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In reply to wvitbear • 7:11p, 1/10/25
wvitbear said:
When Gotleib left, there were several 5 star recruits on the team. K. Smith. The recruit from Folsom, and J Brown. Plus they had several 5 star recruits the next year.
Just to clarify the timing of events, Kianna Smith had already committed to Louisville before Charmin was hired as HC. McKenzie Forbes (from Folsom) also announced her intention to transfer before CS was hired, though I do not recall when she committed to Harvard. (Also, she ended up playing last season as a grad transfer for LG at USC).

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gljone
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In reply to wvitbear • 7:30p, 1/10/25
wvitbear said:
When Gotleib left, there were several 5 star recruits on the team. K. Smith. The recruit from Folsom, and J Brown. Plus they had several 5 star recruits the next year.
Fair point.

For better or worse, player turnover was quite prevalent for those teams back at that time. Again, new coach/pandemic/transition led to roster depletion, for whatever reason. You mention Kianna - she was the first to go, if I recall?

As an assistant (even lead assistant) coach, they don't face stuff the head coach faces.

I would think that also was a factor.

If I remember, Evelien L-S, Jaylyn Brown and Leilani (and a young Michelle) were the key players that remained with a severe lack of depth.

At any rate, can't change the past.

I am really enjoying this team and recalling the past makes me appreciate this team all the more.

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HoopDreams
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11:32p, 1/10/25
I think Charmin is everything you want as a coach, but people are taking notice (she is already being talked about as coach of the year candidate)

But whether you agree with me or not Cal better be talking to her about sweeting her contract. Some big teams will be knocking
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RedlessWardrobe
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In reply to HoopDreams • 7:39a, 1/11/25
HoopDreams said:
I think Charmin is everything you want as a coach, but people are taking notice (she is already being talked about as coach of the year candidate)

But whether you agree with me or not Cal better be talking to her about sweeting her contract. Some big teams will be knocking
Haha. Can you imagine the reaction you would have had if you made this statement ten months ago?
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ClayK
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8:52a, 1/11/25
There are more barriers to success at Cal than there are at other P4 schools, and Charmin has slowly battled through them.

This year's team is very good, and Puff Morris is a good addition. But the talent has to continue to arrive to keep this from being a one-year success story. Winning always helps, and so would some indication that Cal's players move on to pro careers overseas or in the W.

Oh, and there's that NIL thing too. As the saying goes, follow the money ...
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HoopDreams
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In reply to RedlessWardrobe • 12:43p, 1/11/25
RedlessWardrobe said:
HoopDreams said:
I think Charmin is everything you want as a coach, but people are taking notice (she is already being talked about as coach of the year candidate)

But whether you agree with me or not Cal better be talking to her about sweeting her contract. Some big teams will be knocking
Haha. Can you imagine the reaction you would have had if you made this statement ten months ago?
except for the "sweeting" part, I've said this for years
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HoopDreams
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In reply to ClayK • 12:44p, 1/11/25
ClayK said:
There are more barriers to success at Cal than there are at other P4 schools, and Charmin has slowly battled through them.

This year's team is very good, and Puff Morris is a good addition. But the talent has to continue to arrive to keep this from being a one-year success story. Winning always helps, and so would some indication that Cal's players move on to pro careers overseas or in the W.

Oh, and there's that NIL thing too. As the saying goes, follow the money ...
Agree Clay

I'm hoping people step up with their NIL donations to the program, and we can retain our key coaches and players

I'm sure there are several players who are on a lot of teams radar (you know who they are)
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mbBear
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In reply to RedlessWardrobe • 8:48a, 1/12/25
RedlessWardrobe said:
Since we are now past the halfway mark of the schedule, I think anyone following this team can come to two simple conclusions:

1)This team is extremely talented.
2)This team is extremely well coached

Now is the time for all of the Charmin bashers (that have been rather silent), to step up here and make their one definitive statement acknowledging that their recommendation that Charmin be dismissed was the wrong one. Just one statement, that's all that is required.


Easier to realize that any critique here means nothing.
Or to say another way: Charmin has more basketball knowledge in her little finger than the (self proclaimed) "experts" have had in their lifetime.
She doesn't control NIL, though her personal skills landed a nice 5 figure contribution back in October. She doesn't control practice facilities, but you don't hear excuses.
You know the haters will be out in force if they lose a game or two. Don't care... bigger concern is the question of a good season leading to her getting poached.
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RedlessWardrobe
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In reply to mbBear • 9:29a, 1/12/25
mbBear said:
RedlessWardrobe said:
Since we are now past the halfway mark of the schedule, I think anyone following this team can come to two simple conclusions:

1)This team is extremely talented.
2)This team is extremely well coached

Now is the time for all of the Charmin bashers (that have been rather silent), to step up here and make their one definitive statement acknowledging that their recommendation that Charmin be dismissed was the wrong one. Just one statement, that's all that is required.


Easier to realize that any critique here means nothing.
Or to say another way: Charmin has more basketball knowledge in her little finger than the (self proclaimed) "experts" have had in their lifetime.
She doesn't control NIL, though her personal skills landed a nice 5 figure contribution back in October. She doesn't control practice facilities, but you don't hear excuses.
You know the haters will be out in force if they lose a game or two. Don't care... bigger concern is the question of a good season leading to her getting poached.
Hopefully the administration's loyalty to her will now be reciprocated.
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Shocky1
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9:45a, 1/12/25
^ not gonna happen (any major program athletic director hiring a career conference 17-62 record head coach would be taking a significant risk), this program is losing close to $5,000,000 this season with no money for paying smith more...quite frankly the current $500,000 contract is not even financially sustainable...read the michelle onyiah thread for details

there are sadly financial consequences for abysmal attendance & not growing the fanbase particularly with potential nil donors...lindsay g & other r gonna be coming hard for lulu & gabby hard after this season, will they value/priortize the berkeley degree??
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mbBear
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In reply to Shocky1 • 9:51a, 1/12/25
Shocky1 said:
^ not gonna happen, this program is losing close to $5,000,000 this season with no money...quite frankly the current $500,000 contract is not even financially sustainable...read the michelle onyiah thread for details

there are sadly financial consequences for abysmal attendance & not growing the fanbase particularly with potential nil donors...lindsay g & other r gonna be coming hard for lulu & gabby hard after this season, will they value/priortize the berkeley degree??
As I said, I know of one NIL donation that definitely helped. There could be some discussions about endowments toward the HC position, but we will see....
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Shocky1
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9:56a, 1/12/25
mb, knowlton is a pathological liar so his floating the possibility that the head coach position will be endowed like it is for football & men's golf is just more of his made up bull****

knowlton has been telling everybody (including mark madsen) for years that the much needed basketball practice facility is gonna have shovels in the ground soon when in reality it hasn't collected a single dollar (knowlton's alienating doug & lisa goldman resulted in the levi strauss heirs withdrawing their $10,000,000 lead donor pledge) & it's not even listed on the campus wide list of future construction projects
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CalWSportsFan
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In reply to mbBear • 10:01a, 1/12/25
I do think the Charmin likes coaching at Cal very much. She said during the panel at the "Raising the Bar" event that she never aspired to be a head coach, but when the opportunity presented itself at Cal, she felt it was an offer she couldn't refuse as she cares about serving as a role model for others. She noted that being a head coach is one of the "loneliest" jobs in the world....she is driven by much more than simply coaching, she really believes in being a mentor for her players and for others in women's basketball.

Some schools could offer more her money I imagine, but there are things about Cal (UC Berkeley) that make it a perfect fit for Charmin. She spoke of her mother's influence and why she chose to forego a career as an engineer in favor of coaching. She cares deeply about what she brings to the program....I really don't think money is what drives her in the least....

There are coaches who like where they are, look at Rueck at OSU....he could have easily bailed, but he loves OSU.
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mbBear
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In reply to Shocky1 • 2:22p, 1/12/25
Shocky1 said:
mb, knowlton is a pathological liar so his floating the possibility that the head coach position will be endowed like it is for football & men's golf is just more of his made up bull****

knowlton has been telling everybody (including mark madsen) for years that the much needed basketball practice facility is gonna have shovels in the ground soon when in reality it hasn't collected a single dollar (knowlton's alienating doug & lisa goldman resulted in the levi strauss heirs withdrawing their $10,000,000 lead donor pledge) & it's not even listed on the campus wide list of future construction projects

My source is not JK. If you aren't talking to people with the money it don't mean matter, got it?
(I think I am channeling you pretty good...if only I didn't like cats better than dogs, and appreciated pony tails more)...
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Shocky1
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3:47p, 1/12/25
mb, haha, cats r pretty grate too tho they tend to sleep more then them doggy dogs!!
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mbBear
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In reply to CalWSportsFan • 4:40p, 1/12/25
CalWSportsFan said:
I do think the Charmin likes coaching at Cal very much. She said during the panel at the "Raising the Bar" event that she never aspired to be a head coach, but when the opportunity presented itself at Cal, she felt it was an offer she couldn't refuse as she cares about serving as a role model for others. She noted that being a head coach is one of the "loneliest" jobs in the world....she is driven by much more than simply coaching, she really believes in being a mentor for her players and for others in women's basketball.

Some schools could offer more her money I imagine, but there are things about Cal (UC Berkeley) that make it a perfect fit for Charmin. She spoke of her mother's influence and why she chose to forego a career as an engineer in favor of coaching. She cares deeply about what she brings to the program....I really don't think money is what drives her in the least....

There are coaches who like where they are, look at Rueck at OSU....he could have easily bailed, but he loves OSU.

Very fair!
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stu
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In reply to Shocky1 • 6:29p, 1/12/25
Shocky1 said:
mb, haha, cats r pretty grate too tho they tend to sleep more then them doggy dogs!!
Cats are quick twitch critters and save their energy for when they need it.
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