https://nypost.com/2026/08/04/us-news/wisconsin-gov-candidate-hong-gives-stunning-response-about-canceling-thanksgiving/

I don't think one can believe in Christ and believe that celebrating what we celebrate on T-Day is right. It's wrong.

Vote BLUE and Free Wags

She's been saying a lot of silly things lately and this is another one. Shes going to alienate more than she draws in with comments like this and others she's made recently.

Thanksgiving isn't even about that anymore for most Americans. It's about being with family and eating good food, football for some.

She's an idiot. You just mutter a land acknowledgment, problem solved.

She is a complete and total idiot. F this noise. I am celebrating Thanksgiving every year without an ounce of guilt or angst.

So this is what pisses me off about the current crop of leftists "progressives". It really is historically inaccurate her criticisms. Thanksgiving is something of a modern creation and ESPECIALLY the whole pilgrim stuff. Its origins go back hundreds (thousands?) of years to pagan harvest festivals. Only in the mid 1800s did we see the myth making around native Americans and the pilgrims. Sarah Hale and Godey's Lady's Book was an inmportant part of that. Ditto text books introduced in the late 1800s to stich together a common American "culture" from the wave of mass immigration.

A fascinating observation is that this period - one of rapid change in America - saw a number of other efforts to recapture an imagined past - think the way in which Californians' created a myth around the Spanish missions and the Mission revival architecture and our mexican past.

Here is what she SHOULD have said.

"I love thanksgiving. We come together as a multitude of different americans. The historical myth making about the pligrams and navtive americans is important to celebrate because of the ethos of of friendship, cultural acceptance and transmission of knowledge. What I wish is that this could be elevated at a time where we have seem to forgotten it: We can learn from others, Friendship is better than aggression and that we should honor those that were here before us. Too often we don't center those in our conversation. We should."

sycasey said:

---

socaltownie said:

---

So this is what pisses me off about the current crop of leftists "progressives". It really is historically inaccurate her criticisms. Thanksgiving is something of a modern creation and ESPECIALLY the whole pilgrim stuff. Its origins go back hundreds (thousands?) of years to pagan harvest festivals. Only in the mid 1800s did we see the myth making around native Americans and the pilgrims. Sarah Hale and Godey's Lady's Book was an inmportant part of that. Ditto text books introduced in the late 1800s to stich together a common American "culture" from the wave of mass immigration.

A fascinating observation is that this period - one of rapid change in America - saw a number of other efforts to recapture an imagined past - think the way in which Californians' created a myth around the Spanish missions and the Mission revival architecture and our mexican past.

Here is what she SHOULD have said.

"I love thanksgiving. We come together as a multitude of different americans. The historical myth making about the pligrams and navtive americans is important to celebrate because of the ethos of of friendship, cultural acceptance and transmission of knowledge. What I wish is that this could be elevated at a time where we have seem to forgotten it: We can learn from others, Friendship is better than aggression and that we should honor those that were here before us. Too often we don't center those in our conversation. We should."

---

I think what we're seeing is that there is an audience for an economically lefty message (like Bernie Sanders) but this kind of wokish culture-war stuff needs to be tossed into the dustbin. Talking about this stuff in this way is a loser.

Also, as a competent politician your answer to the question "Do you hate Thanksgiving?" should be "No, of course not!" Not a novella describing your nuanced views on the matter. Mamdani is actually pretty smart about this; whenever someone asks him about some old Tweet he just says, "Nah, I don't think that anymore." Simple, easy.

(I cut Hong a bit of slack for her original message because it was during COVID time and "canceling" Thanksgiving maybe had a different context if you were trying to say folks shouldn't be gathering in large groups because of the virus. But her failure to go back on any of that stuff in a clear way in recent interviews was pretty disqualifying.)

---

See while I do think it is a loser POLITICALLY we should talk about it. Ignoring it diminishes us and frankly makes us dumber.

Here is a personal way I think about it. Ski Mammoth. Ski it a Lot. Drive 395 every time.

And both ways I pass by Manzanar. EVERY American should know about the internment. They should grapple with it. Not in black in white but very much the grey it was. A deep afront to American liberty. A nation deeply traumatized (I think we can not imagine how much) by Pearl Harbor. An America that still had casual racism (Foo man Chu? The Yellow Peril?) as something accepted as the norm. And the story that came after - life in the camps, the 442 Infantry Regiment. The apology and reparations.

That does NOT diminish us. It makes us stronger. It should not be used as a cudgel. But the thing about this country - that makes it near unique and one of its superpowers, is a system of liberty and freedoms that should allow us to examine truthfully our past. And we do not "learn" from it but learn by grappling with it to answer very much current question: How do we balance fear against rights? How do we think about ethnicity and allegiances? What would it mean to be striped of your liberties for the color of your skin? How do you emerge from that with dignity and grace? What about when can not you not?

PS. I think one of the huge disservices o this timeline is how, to generate clicks and rage, people simplified some of the things in "woke" to stark simplications just to create outrage. I wonder how many keyboard warriors, for example, actually READ Project 1619 and then put our history in a comparative framework. It feels unquestionable that PART of the American story - as it was for nearly every other colonial enterprise in the Americas - was an extractive enterprise. Slavery was here, as it was in the rest of the Americas, part of of that system. The EXTRAORDINARY part of the American story was that, of course, it wasn't the WHOLE story. Grappling with that complexity, again, makes us richer. Not doing so...dumber.

Yeah, plenty of episodes in our history to be proud of; plenty to be ashamed of. Just like any other country. Individuals don't need to be proud, or feel ashamed, I'm talking about our history. (More to be proud of, than ashamed, IMO, but plenty of the latter as well).

Our strength, if we are still up to it, is to acknowledge what we have done -- the good and the bad -- and try and do even better. Something that a country like Iran is probably not doing.

As we transition from a geritocracy to a younger governing class (skipping over Gen X as predicted by Strauss and Howe in 1991) I think we'll reach a point where we learn to not get so worked up over youthful ****posting. Where Hong really blew it is when she didn't disavow her old ****posts but she tried to nuance them instead.

Our history is our history, the good, the bad, and the ugly. Without knowing our history we risk making the same mistakes that gave us the bad and the ugly. You don't get to sweep the shyte under the rug say, "nothing to see here". We as Americans own all of it and if your constitution is too weak to acknowledge all of it then too bad, it happened and it will always be here. Maybe if we acknowledged ALL of our history we wouldn't be having the problems that we are having right now.

BearNIt said:

---

Our history is our history, the good, the bad, and the ugly. Without knowing our history we risk making the same mistakes that gave us the bad and the ugly. You don't get to sweep the shyte under the rug say, "nothing to see here". We as Americans own all of it and if your constitution is too weak to acknowledge all of it then too bad, it happened and it will always be here. Maybe if we acknowledged ALL of our history we wouldn't be having the problems that we are having right now.

---

The constitution isn't a document about our history so this makes zero sense. It's not something that is updated to call out historical (mis)deeds. It's there as a framework of our nation. Nobody has said don't call out historical misdeeds in the classroom, but also we don't need to make the misdeeds the focus of our education, rather a part of the education. Also do we as americans need to personally own all of the misdeeds? I don't think so. Neither side of my family was here during slavery so there's no reason I have any guilt about it. I can agree slavery is bad and also be proud of the men who fought and gave their lives to end it. But I'm not holding some historical guilt about it. Also most white Americans are mutts at this point that historically have backgrounds from all over the place. It seems like so many want Americans to hold some kind of blood guilt to the bad things our country did and hold no pride over the good things we did. I read that all the time by the way about how you shouldn't be proud of the things our nation did since you weren't there. I hate that attitude.

What in the world are you talking about?

MinotStateBeav said:

---

Big C said:

---

Yeah, plenty of episodes in our history to be proud of; plenty to be ashamed of. Just like any other country. Individuals don't need to be proud, or feel ashamed, I'm talking about our history. (More to be proud of, than ashamed, IMO, but plenty of the latter as well).

Our strength, if we are still up to it, is to acknowledge what we have done -- the good and the bad -- and try and do even better. Something that a country like Iran is probably not doing.

---

I feel like our educators (their unions as well) seem to focus so much on the negative stuff and rarely focus on the things that make our nation proud. There's very much a political agenda at play here and it doesn't take much to see it. I feel like this is harming our nations youth too, which is creating activists instead of productive people in society. How did teacher's unions become completely captured by one ideology? The whole point of education is suppose to be curiosity and just based on their voting habits there should be more randomness to their political choices. It feels very much like professors and teachers coming out of college are complete left leaning and that can't be an accident. It's very much targeted. How is there not more conservative professors or even libertarian?
I can't remember where it was, but there was a study showing the political leaning of teachers in the 1950s and 1960s and when you compare to today its jaw dropping.

---

Some educational organizations are "captured by ideology," yes, but there's another problem in that Republicans started to actively disdain the college-educated voter and chase the rural working-class vote. There's certainly a lot of strategic value in that in terms of overperforming in the House/Senate, but there are consequences on the other end too.

I actually think the recent overreach of teachers' unions in big urban cores creates an opportunity for the GOP to make inroads there but they have to be willing to seize it, and so far it seems that they are not.

Like all good oppressed liberal women of color in this country, Hong married (and divorced) a white man.

sycasey said:

---

MinotStateBeav said:

---

Big C said:

---

Yeah, plenty of episodes in our history to be proud of; plenty to be ashamed of. Just like any other country. Individuals don't need to be proud, or feel ashamed, I'm talking about our history. (More to be proud of, than ashamed, IMO, but plenty of the latter as well).

Our strength, if we are still up to it, is to acknowledge what we have done -- the good and the bad -- and try and do even better. Something that a country like Iran is probably not doing.

---

I feel like our educators (their unions as well) seem to focus so much on the negative stuff and rarely focus on the things that make our nation proud. There's very much a political agenda at play here and it doesn't take much to see it. I feel like this is harming our nations youth too, which is creating activists instead of productive people in society. How did teacher's unions become completely captured by one ideology? The whole point of education is suppose to be curiosity and just based on their voting habits there should be more randomness to their political choices. It feels very much like professors and teachers coming out of college are complete left leaning and that can't be an accident. It's very much targeted. How is there not more conservative professors or even libertarian?
I can't remember where it was, but there was a study showing the political leaning of teachers in the 1950s and 1960s and when you compare to today its jaw dropping.

---

Some educational organizations are "captured by ideology," yes, but there's another problem in that Republicans started to actively disdain the college-educated voter and chase the rural working-class vote. There's certainly a lot of strategic value in that in terms of overperforming in the House/Senate, but there are consequences on the other end too.

I actually think the recent overreach of teachers' unions in big urban cores creates an opportunity for the GOP to make inroads there but they have to be willing to seize it, and so far it seems that they are not.

---

Yes, when Republicans started noticing education being captured by an ideology they showed disdain...lol...is that a problem for you? Isn't that what they should be showing? Did you want them to coddle the commies?

Btw I don't know how you fix this now, because universities are completely captured. Something like 97% of university professors lean left. So the entire apparatus is just pumping out people that are more extreme.

MinotStateBeav said:

---

sycasey said:

---

MinotStateBeav said:

---

Big C said:

---

Yeah, plenty of episodes in our history to be proud of; plenty to be ashamed of. Just like any other country. Individuals don't need to be proud, or feel ashamed, I'm talking about our history. (More to be proud of, than ashamed, IMO, but plenty of the latter as well).

Our strength, if we are still up to it, is to acknowledge what we have done -- the good and the bad -- and try and do even better. Something that a country like Iran is probably not doing.

---

I feel like our educators (their unions as well) seem to focus so much on the negative stuff and rarely focus on the things that make our nation proud. There's very much a political agenda at play here and it doesn't take much to see it. I feel like this is harming our nations youth too, which is creating activists instead of productive people in society. How did teacher's unions become completely captured by one ideology? The whole point of education is suppose to be curiosity and just based on their voting habits there should be more randomness to their political choices. It feels very much like professors and teachers coming out of college are complete left leaning and that can't be an accident. It's very much targeted. How is there not more conservative professors or even libertarian?
I can't remember where it was, but there was a study showing the political leaning of teachers in the 1950s and 1960s and when you compare to today its jaw dropping.

---

Some educational organizations are "captured by ideology," yes, but there's another problem in that Republicans started to actively disdain the college-educated voter and chase the rural working-class vote. There's certainly a lot of strategic value in that in terms of overperforming in the House/Senate, but there are consequences on the other end too.

I actually think the recent overreach of teachers' unions in big urban cores creates an opportunity for the GOP to make inroads there but they have to be willing to seize it, and so far it seems that they are not.

---

Yes, when Republicans started noticing education being captured by an ideology they showed disdain...lol...is that a problem for you? Isn't that what they should be showing? Did you want them to coddle the commies?

Btw I don't know how you fix this now, because universities are completely captured. Something like 97% of university professors lean left. So the entire apparatus is just pumping out people that are more extreme.

---

More Republicans could start going to college.

sycasey said:

---

MinotStateBeav said:

---

sycasey said:

---

MinotStateBeav said:

---

Big C said:

---

Yeah, plenty of episodes in our history to be proud of; plenty to be ashamed of. Just like any other country. Individuals don't need to be proud, or feel ashamed, I'm talking about our history. (More to be proud of, than ashamed, IMO, but plenty of the latter as well).

Our strength, if we are still up to it, is to acknowledge what we have done -- the good and the bad -- and try and do even better. Something that a country like Iran is probably not doing.

---

I feel like our educators (their unions as well) seem to focus so much on the negative stuff and rarely focus on the things that make our nation proud. There's very much a political agenda at play here and it doesn't take much to see it. I feel like this is harming our nations youth too, which is creating activists instead of productive people in society. How did teacher's unions become completely captured by one ideology? The whole point of education is suppose to be curiosity and just based on their voting habits there should be more randomness to their political choices. It feels very much like professors and teachers coming out of college are complete left leaning and that can't be an accident. It's very much targeted. How is there not more conservative professors or even libertarian?
I can't remember where it was, but there was a study showing the political leaning of teachers in the 1950s and 1960s and when you compare to today its jaw dropping.

---

Some educational organizations are "captured by ideology," yes, but there's another problem in that Republicans started to actively disdain the college-educated voter and chase the rural working-class vote. There's certainly a lot of strategic value in that in terms of overperforming in the House/Senate, but there are consequences on the other end too.

I actually think the recent overreach of teachers' unions in big urban cores creates an opportunity for the GOP to make inroads there but they have to be willing to seize it, and so far it seems that they are not.

---

Yes, when Republicans started noticing education being captured by an ideology they showed disdain...lol...is that a problem for you? Isn't that what they should be showing? Did you want them to coddle the commies?

Btw I don't know how you fix this now, because universities are completely captured. Something like 97% of university professors lean left. So the entire apparatus is just pumping out people that are more extreme.

---

More Republicans could start going to college.

---

They do, but like the rest of society, there now is tribal separation with schools like Liberty BYU, Christian schools, southern state college,, etc. with booming enrollments. Some of this reflects the move towards on-line college, which while not particularly ideological, is not an option being entertained by the elite schools which are thought to be so predominantly left leaning. But, for example, Liberty has an enrollment over 140,000, and a lot of those students are on-line. There is a heavy concentration of Liberty alumni working for Republican offices and conservative organizations.

wifeisafurd said:

---

sycasey said:

---

MinotStateBeav said:

---

sycasey said:

---

MinotStateBeav said:

---

Big C said:

---

Yeah, plenty of episodes in our history to be proud of; plenty to be ashamed of. Just like any other country. Individuals don't need to be proud, or feel ashamed, I'm talking about our history. (More to be proud of, than ashamed, IMO, but plenty of the latter as well).

Our strength, if we are still up to it, is to acknowledge what we have done -- the good and the bad -- and try and do even better. Something that a country like Iran is probably not doing.

---

I feel like our educators (their unions as well) seem to focus so much on the negative stuff and rarely focus on the things that make our nation proud. There's very much a political agenda at play here and it doesn't take much to see it. I feel like this is harming our nations youth too, which is creating activists instead of productive people in society. How did teacher's unions become completely captured by one ideology? The whole point of education is suppose to be curiosity and just based on their voting habits there should be more randomness to their political choices. It feels very much like professors and teachers coming out of college are complete left leaning and that can't be an accident. It's very much targeted. How is there not more conservative professors or even libertarian?
I can't remember where it was, but there was a study showing the political leaning of teachers in the 1950s and 1960s and when you compare to today its jaw dropping.

---

Some educational organizations are "captured by ideology," yes, but there's another problem in that Republicans started to actively disdain the college-educated voter and chase the rural working-class vote. There's certainly a lot of strategic value in that in terms of overperforming in the House/Senate, but there are consequences on the other end too.

I actually think the recent overreach of teachers' unions in big urban cores creates an opportunity for the GOP to make inroads there but they have to be willing to seize it, and so far it seems that they are not.

---

Yes, when Republicans started noticing education being captured by an ideology they showed disdain...lol...is that a problem for you? Isn't that what they should be showing? Did you want them to coddle the commies?

Btw I don't know how you fix this now, because universities are completely captured. Something like 97% of university professors lean left. So the entire apparatus is just pumping out people that are more extreme.

---

More Republicans could start going to college.

---

They do, but like the rest of society, there now is tribal separation with schools like Liberty BYU, Christian schools, southern state college,, etc. with booming enrollments. Some of this reflects the move towards on-line college, which while not particularly ideological, is not an option being entertained by the elite schools which are thought to be so predominantly left leaning. But, for example, Liberty has an enrollment over 140,000, and a lot of those students are on-line. There is a heavy concentration of Liberty alumni working for Republican offices and conservative organizations.

---

Maybe if they work hard enough, they'll make Liberty as prestigious as Harvard or Stanford.

wifeisafurd said:

---

sycasey said:

---

wifeisafurd said:

---

sycasey said:

---

MinotStateBeav said:

---

sycasey said:

---

MinotStateBeav said:

---

Big C said:

---

Yeah, plenty of episodes in our history to be proud of; plenty to be ashamed of. Just like any other country. Individuals don't need to be proud, or feel ashamed, I'm talking about our history. (More to be proud of, than ashamed, IMO, but plenty of the latter as well).

Our strength, if we are still up to it, is to acknowledge what we have done -- the good and the bad -- and try and do even better. Something that a country like Iran is probably not doing.

---

I feel like our educators (their unions as well) seem to focus so much on the negative stuff and rarely focus on the things that make our nation proud. There's very much a political agenda at play here and it doesn't take much to see it. I feel like this is harming our nations youth too, which is creating activists instead of productive people in society. How did teacher's unions become completely captured by one ideology? The whole point of education is suppose to be curiosity and just based on their voting habits there should be more randomness to their political choices. It feels very much like professors and teachers coming out of college are complete left leaning and that can't be an accident. It's very much targeted. How is there not more conservative professors or even libertarian?
I can't remember where it was, but there was a study showing the political leaning of teachers in the 1950s and 1960s and when you compare to today its jaw dropping.

---

Some educational organizations are "captured by ideology," yes, but there's another problem in that Republicans started to actively disdain the college-educated voter and chase the rural working-class vote. There's certainly a lot of strategic value in that in terms of overperforming in the House/Senate, but there are consequences on the other end too.

I actually think the recent overreach of teachers' unions in big urban cores creates an opportunity for the GOP to make inroads there but they have to be willing to seize it, and so far it seems that they are not.

---

Yes, when Republicans started noticing education being captured by an ideology they showed disdain...lol...is that a problem for you? Isn't that what they should be showing? Did you want them to coddle the commies?

Btw I don't know how you fix this now, because universities are completely captured. Something like 97% of university professors lean left. So the entire apparatus is just pumping out people that are more extreme.

---

More Republicans could start going to college.

---

They do, but like the rest of society, there now is tribal separation with schools like Liberty BYU, Christian schools, southern state college,, etc. with booming enrollments. Some of this reflects the move towards on-line college, which while not particularly ideological, is not an option being entertained by the elite schools which are thought to be so predominantly left leaning. But, for example, Liberty has an enrollment over 140,000, and a lot of those students are on-line. There is a heavy concentration of Liberty alumni working for Republican offices and conservative organizations.

---

Maybe if they work hard enough, they'll make Liberty as prestigious as Harvard or Stanford.

---

Not gonna happen. These schools are primarily undergrad institutions. Liberty and others do not have the research or grad schools that make school like Harvard or Stanford prestigious in the eyes of academics. For example, Stanford has around 7,500 undergrads and around 11,000 grads. Harvard has around 7,000 undergrads 17,000 grad students. In academia, undergrads really don't matter all that much. In contrast, as examples, BYU, Clemson, Auburn and Texas A&M have around 92%, 83%, 82% and 73% undergrads, respectively. Liberty is unique as it has only 55% of the students are undergrads, but that is misleading because the grad students are mainly on-line and largely "older" adults getting professional degrees.

I might add that several colleges are now facing shifting landscapes, such as the public Florida state schools, which are becoming more politicized in our bipartisan environment.

And why isn't Cal on your list of prestigious schools?

---

So maybe conservatives still need to try going to the actual prestigious schools too, not just siloing themselves into ideological safe zones.

sycasey said:

---

wifeisafurd said:

---

sycasey said:

---

wifeisafurd said:

---

sycasey said:

---

MinotStateBeav said:

---

sycasey said:

---

MinotStateBeav said:

---

Big C said:

---

Yeah, plenty of episodes in our history to be proud of; plenty to be ashamed of. Just like any other country. Individuals don't need to be proud, or feel ashamed, I'm talking about our history. (More to be proud of, than ashamed, IMO, but plenty of the latter as well).

Our strength, if we are still up to it, is to acknowledge what we have done -- the good and the bad -- and try and do even better. Something that a country like Iran is probably not doing.

---

I feel like our educators (their unions as well) seem to focus so much on the negative stuff and rarely focus on the things that make our nation proud. There's very much a political agenda at play here and it doesn't take much to see it. I feel like this is harming our nations youth too, which is creating activists instead of productive people in society. How did teacher's unions become completely captured by one ideology? The whole point of education is suppose to be curiosity and just based on their voting habits there should be more randomness to their political choices. It feels very much like professors and teachers coming out of college are complete left leaning and that can't be an accident. It's very much targeted. How is there not more conservative professors or even libertarian?
I can't remember where it was, but there was a study showing the political leaning of teachers in the 1950s and 1960s and when you compare to today its jaw dropping.

---

Some educational organizations are "captured by ideology," yes, but there's another problem in that Republicans started to actively disdain the college-educated voter and chase the rural working-class vote. There's certainly a lot of strategic value in that in terms of overperforming in the House/Senate, but there are consequences on the other end too.

I actually think the recent overreach of teachers' unions in big urban cores creates an opportunity for the GOP to make inroads there but they have to be willing to seize it, and so far it seems that they are not.

---

Yes, when Republicans started noticing education being captured by an ideology they showed disdain...lol...is that a problem for you? Isn't that what they should be showing? Did you want them to coddle the commies?

Btw I don't know how you fix this now, because universities are completely captured. Something like 97% of university professors lean left. So the entire apparatus is just pumping out people that are more extreme.

---

More Republicans could start going to college.

---

They do, but like the rest of society, there now is tribal separation with schools like Liberty BYU, Christian schools, southern state college,, etc. with booming enrollments. Some of this reflects the move towards on-line college, which while not particularly ideological, is not an option being entertained by the elite schools which are thought to be so predominantly left leaning. But, for example, Liberty has an enrollment over 140,000, and a lot of those students are on-line. There is a heavy concentration of Liberty alumni working for Republican offices and conservative organizations.

---

Maybe if they work hard enough, they'll make Liberty as prestigious as Harvard or Stanford.

---

Not gonna happen. These schools are primarily undergrad institutions. Liberty and others do not have the research or grad schools that make school like Harvard or Stanford prestigious in the eyes of academics. For example, Stanford has around 7,500 undergrads and around 11,000 grads. Harvard has around 7,000 undergrads 17,000 grad students. In academia, undergrads really don't matter all that much. In contrast, as examples, BYU, Clemson, Auburn and Texas A&M have around 92%, 83%, 82% and 73% undergrads, respectively. Liberty is unique as it has only 55% of the students are undergrads, but that is misleading because the grad students are mainly on-line and largely "older" adults getting professional degrees.

I might add that several colleges are now facing shifting landscapes, such as the public Florida state schools, which are becoming more politicized in our bipartisan environment.

And why isn't Cal on your list of prestigious schools?

---

So maybe conservatives still need to try going to the actual prestigious schools too, not just siloing themselves into ideological safe zones.

---

I think conservatives want safe spaces for their kids but the kids don't necessarily want that. The one blatant instance of government trying to indoctrinate a college was New School in Florida (part of their public school system) and it has ended in disaster with plummeting enrollments and skyrocketing costs per pupil. Private universities like Liberty can be more nuanced in how they create a safe space for conservatives.

When I was at Berkeley it was obviously very liberal but their were still plenty of conservatives to engage with. The most politically outspoken professor I had was very conservative. Of course, that was a bit ago. And then there was my NYU business school experience where I was taught things like:
- Anybody who buys gas is in bed with the Saudis so there is really nothing that can be done about corruption unless you stop buying gas
- Enron was doing a good job of implementing market forces and California only has itself to blame for rolling blackouts
- We don't need regulation for pollution, we just need to free up capital because new factories are cleaner than old factories
- Labor movements destroy business and hurt the economy
- FDR made the Great Depression worse
- Was graded down for arguing for New Deal style action for Argentina instead of arguing for the magic of privatization

My point being, navigating differing opinions are part of life

dajo9 said:

---

sycasey said:

---

wifeisafurd said:

---

sycasey said:

---

wifeisafurd said:

---

sycasey said:

---

MinotStateBeav said:

---

sycasey said:

---

MinotStateBeav said:

---

Big C said:

---

Yeah, plenty of episodes in our history to be proud of; plenty to be ashamed of. Just like any other country. Individuals don't need to be proud, or feel ashamed, I'm talking about our history. (More to be proud of, than ashamed, IMO, but plenty of the latter as well).

Our strength, if we are still up to it, is to acknowledge what we have done -- the good and the bad -- and try and do even better. Something that a country like Iran is probably not doing.

---

I feel like our educators (their unions as well) seem to focus so much on the negative stuff and rarely focus on the things that make our nation proud. There's very much a political agenda at play here and it doesn't take much to see it. I feel like this is harming our nations youth too, which is creating activists instead of productive people in society. How did teacher's unions become completely captured by one ideology? The whole point of education is suppose to be curiosity and just based on their voting habits there should be more randomness to their political choices. It feels very much like professors and teachers coming out of college are complete left leaning and that can't be an accident. It's very much targeted. How is there not more conservative professors or even libertarian?
I can't remember where it was, but there was a study showing the political leaning of teachers in the 1950s and 1960s and when you compare to today its jaw dropping.

---

Some educational organizations are "captured by ideology," yes, but there's another problem in that Republicans started to actively disdain the college-educated voter and chase the rural working-class vote. There's certainly a lot of strategic value in that in terms of overperforming in the House/Senate, but there are consequences on the other end too.

I actually think the recent overreach of teachers' unions in big urban cores creates an opportunity for the GOP to make inroads there but they have to be willing to seize it, and so far it seems that they are not.

---

Yes, when Republicans started noticing education being captured by an ideology they showed disdain...lol...is that a problem for you? Isn't that what they should be showing? Did you want them to coddle the commies?

Btw I don't know how you fix this now, because universities are completely captured. Something like 97% of university professors lean left. So the entire apparatus is just pumping out people that are more extreme.

---

More Republicans could start going to college.

---

They do, but like the rest of society, there now is tribal separation with schools like Liberty BYU, Christian schools, southern state college,, etc. with booming enrollments. Some of this reflects the move towards on-line college, which while not particularly ideological, is not an option being entertained by the elite schools which are thought to be so predominantly left leaning. But, for example, Liberty has an enrollment over 140,000, and a lot of those students are on-line. There is a heavy concentration of Liberty alumni working for Republican offices and conservative organizations.

---

Maybe if they work hard enough, they'll make Liberty as prestigious as Harvard or Stanford.

---

Not gonna happen. These schools are primarily undergrad institutions. Liberty and others do not have the research or grad schools that make school like Harvard or Stanford prestigious in the eyes of academics. For example, Stanford has around 7,500 undergrads and around 11,000 grads. Harvard has around 7,000 undergrads 17,000 grad students. In academia, undergrads really don't matter all that much. In contrast, as examples, BYU, Clemson, Auburn and Texas A&M have around 92%, 83%, 82% and 73% undergrads, respectively. Liberty is unique as it has only 55% of the students are undergrads, but that is misleading because the grad students are mainly on-line and largely "older" adults getting professional degrees.

I might add that several colleges are now facing shifting landscapes, such as the public Florida state schools, which are becoming more politicized in our bipartisan environment.

And why isn't Cal on your list of prestigious schools?

---

So maybe conservatives still need to try going to the actual prestigious schools too, not just siloing themselves into ideological safe zones.

---

I think conservatives want safe spaces for their kids but the kids don't necessarily want that. The one blatant instance of government trying to indoctrinate a college was New School in Florida (part of their public school system) and it has ended in disaster with plummeting enrollments and skyrocketing costs per pupil. Private universities like Liberty can be more nuanced in how they create a safe space for conservatives.

When I was at Berkeley it was obviously very liberal but their were still plenty of conservatives to engage with. The most politically outspoken professor I had was very conservative. Of course, that was a bit ago. And then there was my NYU business school experience where I was taught things like:
- Anybody who buys gas is in bed with the Saudis so there is really nothing that can be done about corruption unless you stop buying gas
- Enron was doing a good job of implementing market forces and California only has itself to blame for rolling blackouts
- We don't need regulation for pollution, we just need to free up capital because new factories are cleaner than old factories
- Labor movements destroy business and hurt the economy
- FDR made the Great Depression worse
- Was graded down for arguing for New Deal style action for Argentina instead of arguing for the magic of privatization

My point being, navigating differing opinions are part of life

---

Yeah I think the truth is that public universities actually have remained free zones for all kinds of political thought, at least relative to the private ones where some of the cancellation/groupthink stuff ran much more rampant. That's because a public school actually has to answer to the government, and therefore to the public. Not saying they were all perfect but there's a backstop there.