A very small one but they have a ticker of tweets going on during the even and they popped up one from Cam Jordan, which I enjoyed seeing. A night of big KOs. Rose channeled CroCop tonight.

This proves my point about MMA fighters not being very good upright fighters compared to boxers. What, exactly, did Jorge Masvidal think was going to be the outcome of holding his left hand that low?



*BTW, the ability to strike a helpless fighter in the face several times before the referee intervenes is the reason I stopped watching MMA several years back.

bearister said:

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This proves my point about MMA fighters not being very good upright fighters compared to boxers. What, exactly, did Jorge Masvidal think was going to be the outcome of holding his left hand that low?



*BTW, the ability to strike a helpless fighter in the face several times before the referee intervenes is the reason I stopped watching MMA several years back.

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I didn't watch this fight and I admit I wasn't following this fight or Masvidal's opponent but it often makes more sense to dip your hand lower in MMA vs. boxing if you need to be wary of kicks or takedowns in addition to just punches.

So holistically there's at least a reason a fighter could tend to drop their hand more in MMA compared to boxing.

I don't know about the hand, but no good boxer is going to let himself be hit by a punch like that. Looked like something out of Hollywood where punch after loaded-up punch lands flush.

Big C said:

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I don't know about the hand, but no good boxer is going to let himself be hit by a punch like that. Looked like something out of Hollywood where punch after loaded-up punch lands flush.

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Well, it can happen if you are exhausted or your bell has previously been rung in the fight. Good point about having hand low to block a kick... but very few are good kickers in MMA. Cung Le was, but he was close to over the hill when MMA started...then he got wrecked.




Bad Brad Hefton was a great kicker as a PKA heavyweight fighter in the 1980's.

bearister said:

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This proves my point about MMA fighters not being very good upright fighters compared to boxers. What, exactly, did Jorge Masvidal think was going to be the outcome of holding his left hand that low?



*BTW, the ability to strike a helpless fighter in the face several times before the referee intervenes is the reason I stopped watching MMA several years back.

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The range difference and inclusion of kicks and grappling in MMA makes the standup striking game completely different. If you are going to give a boxing critique you are going to find lots of things that look like holes, but this is not boxing. Earlier in the fight Usman was throwing these awfully weird looking overhands that were making me cringe, but then he finished with the straight right. Maybe it was a setup? Also, watch how off balance Usman is as he launches into that KO punch, he should have been eaten alive by a better striker right?

MMA != boxing

It's not just kicks, you are contending with the takedowns. You don't have large gloves to cover/shield with or that your opponent is wearing that make it much easier to parry and absorb strikes defensively.

bearister said:

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Big C said:

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I don't know about the hand, but no good boxer is going to let himself be hit by a punch like that. Looked like something out of Hollywood where punch after loaded-up punch lands flush.

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Well, it can happen if you are exhausted or your bell has previously been rung in the fight. Good point about having hand low to block a kick... but very few are good kickers in MMA. Cung Le was, but he was close to over the hill when MMA started...then he got wrecked.




Bad Brad Hefton was a great kicker as a PKA heavyweight fighter in the 1980's.

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I'm just here to provide some factual nitpicking.

By the time Cung Le joined the UFC, yeah, he was past his prime. However, the UFC started in the 1990s, when Cung Le was still young (and arguably not yet in his prime). In fact, Royce Gracie, who won UFC 1 (in 1993), UFC 2, and UFC 4 is just 5-6 years older than Cung Le.

It should be noted that aside from the UFC, Pancrase and the Pride Fighting Championships were popular MMA tournaments in the 90s and early 2000s. In other words, these tournaments were around before and during Cung Le's prime. As such, to suggest that MMA was not around in Cung Le's prime is factually false.

Incidentally, if you watched some of the Pancrase or Pride fights, you would've seen some really good kickboxers, who were good kickers. One of my favorites from this era was Bas Rutten, if for no other reason than how he hunted for liver shots. So the blanket statement that very few MMA fighters are good kickers is questionable. Additionally, given that modern MMA fighters have figured out how to disable their opponents by kicking their latters' respective lead legs, it's also questionable to say modern MMA fighters aren't good kickers. If anything, their kicks are arguably even more effective than those of their predecessors.

But your larger point about MMA fighters generally not being as skilled at boxing as boxers is pretty sound. Then again, boxers are specialists who fight under a completely different set of rules and have to worry about different sets of strategies and attacks. Put a boxer in a ring with a MMA fighter using kickboxing or MMA rules and the boxer will probably be lucky to survive a round. Conversely, set the boxer and MMA fighter in a ring with the Marquess of Queensbury rules and the boxer will likely light up the MMA fighter. Basically, the rules make the fight.

To follow up on 01's post, comparing a boxer to a MMA fighter is like comparing a free style wrestler to a Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu

A wrestler would probably win the take-down vs a jiu-jitsu person, but the jiu-jitsu person would probably win the match in 2 minutes

Why? Because half of the moves, holds, locks the jiu-jitsu play would use are illegal in free style wrestling

Fighting is barbaric. I understand that now. We evenhave females fighting. I know we are a free society, but legalized fighting is still a throwback to our barbaric past. what does a 65 year-oldboxer have to show for all his trophies and victories. Brain damage and slurred speech...not worth it..

helltopay1 said:

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Fighting is barbaric. I understand that now. We evenhave females fighting. I know we are a free society, but legalized fighting is still a throwback to our barbaric past. what does a 65 year-oldboxer have to show for all his trophies and victories. Brain damage and slurred speech...not worth it..

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You are posting on a board devoted to football, a sport that many people consider barbaric and which results in a tremendous number of very serious injuries. Not sure what your standard is here.

01Bear said:

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bearister said:

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Big C said:

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I don't know about the hand, but no good boxer is going to let himself be hit by a punch like that. Looked like something out of Hollywood where punch after loaded-up punch lands flush.

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Well, it can happen if you are exhausted or your bell has previously been rung in the fight. Good point about having hand low to block a kick... but very few are good kickers in MMA. Cung Le was, but he was close to over the hill when MMA started...then he got wrecked.




Bad Brad Hefton was a great kicker as a PKA heavyweight fighter in the 1980's.

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I'm just here to provide some factual nitpicking.

By the time Cung Le joined the UFC, yeah, he was past his prime. However, the UFC started in the 1990s, when Cung Le was still young (and arguably not yet in his prime). In fact, Royce Gracie, who won UFC 1 (in 1993), UFC 2, and UFC 4 is just 5-6 years older than Cung Le.

It should be noted that aside from the UFC, Pancrase and the Pride Fighting Championships were popular MMA tournaments in the 90s and early 2000s. In other words, these tournaments were around before and during Cung Le's prime. As such, to suggest that MMA was not around in Cung Le's prime is factually false.

Incidentally, if you watched some of the Pancrase or Pride fights, you would've seen some really good kickboxers, who were good kickers. One of my favorites from this era was Bas Rutten, if for no other reason than how he hunted for liver shots. So the blanket statement that very few MMA fighters are good kickers is questionable. Additionally, given that modern MMA fighters have figured out how to disable their opponents by kicking their latters' respective lead legs, it's also questionable to say modern MMA fighters aren't good kickers. If anything, their kicks are arguably even more effective than those of their predecessors.

But your larger point about MMA fighters generally not being as skilled at boxing as boxers is pretty sound. Then again, boxers are specialists who fight under a completely different set of rules and have to worry about different sets of strategies and attacks. Put a boxer in a ring with a MMA fighter using kickboxing or MMA rules and the boxer will probably be lucky to survive a round. Conversely, set the boxer and MMA fighter in a ring with the Marquess of Queensbury rules and the boxer will likely light up the MMA fighter. Basically, the rules make the fight.

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Admittedly minimal MMA knowledge here. When you refer to disabling opponents by kicking their lead legs, are you talking about what I see the Muay Thai boxers do a lot? When they go up against opponents from other MA disciplines, they really seem to wear them down!

Big C said:

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01Bear said:

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bearister said:

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Big C said:

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I don't know about the hand, but no good boxer is going to let himself be hit by a punch like that. Looked like something out of Hollywood where punch after loaded-up punch lands flush.

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Well, it can happen if you are exhausted or your bell has previously been rung in the fight. Good point about having hand low to block a kick... but very few are good kickers in MMA. Cung Le was, but he was close to over the hill when MMA started...then he got wrecked.




Bad Brad Hefton was a great kicker as a PKA heavyweight fighter in the 1980's.

---

I'm just here to provide some factual nitpicking.

By the time Cung Le joined the UFC, yeah, he was past his prime. However, the UFC started in the 1990s, when Cung Le was still young (and arguably not yet in his prime). In fact, Royce Gracie, who won UFC 1 (in 1993), UFC 2, and UFC 4 is just 5-6 years older than Cung Le.

It should be noted that aside from the UFC, Pancrase and the Pride Fighting Championships were popular MMA tournaments in the 90s and early 2000s. In other words, these tournaments were around before and during Cung Le's prime. As such, to suggest that MMA was not around in Cung Le's prime is factually false.

Incidentally, if you watched some of the Pancrase or Pride fights, you would've seen some really good kickboxers, who were good kickers. One of my favorites from this era was Bas Rutten, if for no other reason than how he hunted for liver shots. So the blanket statement that very few MMA fighters are good kickers is questionable. Additionally, given that modern MMA fighters have figured out how to disable their opponents by kicking their latters' respective lead legs, it's also questionable to say modern MMA fighters aren't good kickers. If anything, their kicks are arguably even more effective than those of their predecessors.

But your larger point about MMA fighters generally not being as skilled at boxing as boxers is pretty sound. Then again, boxers are specialists who fight under a completely different set of rules and have to worry about different sets of strategies and attacks. Put a boxer in a ring with a MMA fighter using kickboxing or MMA rules and the boxer will probably be lucky to survive a round. Conversely, set the boxer and MMA fighter in a ring with the Marquess of Queensbury rules and the boxer will likely light up the MMA fighter. Basically, the rules make the fight.

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Admittedly minimal MMA knowledge here. When you refer to disabling opponents by kicking their lead legs, are you talking about what I see the Muay Thai boxers do a lot? When they go up against opponents from other MA disciplines, they really seem to wear them down!

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Not entirely the same. In muay thai, there is some attacking of the front leg, but often the fighters block one another's kicks with their lead legs (with their shins). In MMA, more and more fighters are attacking their opponents' lead legs (by kicking the calf). This wears down the opponent's ability to put weight on the leg and ultimately results in him not being able to fight any longer.

helltopay1 said:

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Fighting is barbaric. I understand that now. We evenhave females fighting. I know we are a free society, but legalized fighting is still a throwback to our barbaric past. what does a 65 year-oldboxer have to show for all his trophies and victories. Brain damage and slurred speech...not worth it..

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Hey, we agree on something!

dimitrig said:

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helltopay1 said:

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Fighting is barbaric. I understand that now. We evenhave females fighting. I know we are a free society, but legalized fighting is still a throwback to our barbaric past. what does a 65 year-oldboxer have to show for all his trophies and victories. Brain damage and slurred speech...not worth it..

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Hey, we agree on something!

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Because something is more primal doesn't make it worse (or better). Endless Twittering is better because it is -- in and of itself -- not physically violent and so 21st century?

Big C said:

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dimitrig said:

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helltopay1 said:

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Fighting is barbaric. I understand that now. We evenhave females fighting. I know we are a free society, but legalized fighting is still a throwback to our barbaric past. what does a 65 year-oldboxer have to show for all his trophies and victories. Brain damage and slurred speech...not worth it..

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Hey, we agree on something!

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Because something is more primal doesn't make it worse (or better). Endless Twittering is better because it is so 21st century?

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Actually, Twitter is also barbaric. It's just that, in Twitter's case, it's unclear if the brain damage and slurred speech is a cause or an effect.