B.A. Bearacus said:

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Could any prior Cal squad (with original coach) from before 1990 realistically beat the 2021 Bears? If so, which one? Let's assume it's modern rules. Sorry Big C, the Wonder Boys would get their asses handed to them.

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Maybe 1975. They were loaded with NFL talent on offense. Chuck Muncie and Wesley Walker. Joe Roth had an NFL future if he hadn't died. Probably would have score quite a few points to cover what the 1975 defense would give up.

Eastern Oregon Bear said:

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B.A. Bearacus said:

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Could any prior Cal squad (with original coach) from before 1990 realistically beat the 2021 Bears? If so, which one? Let's assume it's modern rules. Sorry Big C, the Wonder Boys would get their asses handed to them.

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Maybe 1975. They were loaded with NFL talent on offense. Chuck Muncie and Wesley Walker. Joe Roth had an NFL future if he hadn't died. Probably would have score quite a few points to cover what the 1975 defense would give up.

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That game is a 30+ loss for the 2021 squad. Modern rules? That would just make the whuppin' worse. Back then linebackers decapitated players.

bearister said:

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Eastern Oregon Bear said:

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B.A. Bearacus said:

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Could any prior Cal squad (with original coach) from before 1990 realistically beat the 2021 Bears? If so, which one? Let's assume it's modern rules. Sorry Big C, the Wonder Boys would get their asses handed to them.

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Maybe 1975. They were loaded with NFL talent on offense. Chuck Muncie and Wesley Walker. Joe Roth had an NFL future if he hadn't died. Probably would have score quite a few points to cover what the 1975 defense would give up.

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That game is a 30+ loss for the 2021 squad. Modern rules? That would just make the whuppin' worse. Back then linebackers decapitated players.

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Well, Bearister, I think the biggest problem with teams going back in time is size and weight of the OL. In the 70s, NFL OL averaged 6-3, 255lbs. Both measurements, especially weight, are higher now. Our OL would push a 1975 DL around pretty easily. Like rag dolls, perhaps? Similar changes apply on the DL as well.

https://www.businessinsider.com/nfl-50s-tim-tebow-would-have-been-an-offensive-lineman-2011-10

B.A. Bearacus said:

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Could any prior Cal squad (with original coach) from before 1990 realistically beat the 2021 Bears? If so, which one? Let's assume it's modern rules. Sorry Big C, the Wonder Boys would get their asses handed to them.

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Andy Smith's Wonder Teams were UNDEFEATED from 1920 to 1924. If they had their asses handed to them, they would place them back in their proper respective posterior locations and continue to DOMINATE!

190 pound linemen from the 1920s were quicker than their 300 pound counterparts from 2021. They also didn't suffer from the brain rot caused by social media and video gaming.

I am curious as to what inspired this hypothetical, Mr. Bearacus, but there is only one way to find out its answer for sure: Invent a time machine! I will begin work on this soon and get back to you...

Big C said:

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B.A. Bearacus said:

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Could any prior Cal squad (with original coach) from before 1990 realistically beat the 2021 Bears? If so, which one? Let's assume it's modern rules. Sorry Big C, the Wonder Boys would get their asses handed to them.

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Andy Smith's Wonder Teams were UNDEFEATED from 1920 to 1924. If they had their asses handed to them, they would place them back in their proper respective posterior locations and continue to DOMINATE!

190 pound linemen from the 1920s were quicker than their 300 pound counterparts from 2021. They also didn't suffer from the brain rot caused by social media and video gaming.

I am curious as to what inspired this hypothetical, Mr. Bearacus, but there is only one way to find out for sure: Invent a time machine! I will begin work on this soon and get back to you...

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Big C said:

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I am curious as to what inspired this hypothetical, Mr. Bearacus, but there is only one way to find out its answer for sure: Invent a time machine! I will begin work on this soon and get back to you...

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I just wanted to point out how historically dominant our 2021 squad is and also because I wanted to use Wonder Boys in a sentence.

Game stats by modern Cal players against the Wonder Boys:

Jahvid Best: 500 yards in the 1st half
Desean Jackson: 20 TDs, 19 on punt returns.
Marshawn Lynch: 17 yards per carry

bearister said:

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Eastern Oregon Bear said:

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B.A. Bearacus said:

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Could any prior Cal squad (with original coach) from before 1990 realistically beat the 2021 Bears? If so, which one? Let's assume it's modern rules. Sorry Big C, the Wonder Boys would get their asses handed to them.

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Maybe 1975. They were loaded with NFL talent on offense. Chuck Muncie and Wesley Walker. Joe Roth had an NFL future if he hadn't died. Probably would have score quite a few points to cover what the 1975 defense would give up.

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That game is a 30+ loss for the 2021 squad. Modern rules? That would just make the whuppin' worse. Back then linebackers decapitated players.

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A couple of issues. First, Cal's best lineman in 1975, Ted Albrecht, was 6'4" 250 lbs, which was typical for the era but that is the size of a TE on the 2021 team. The 2021 OL is 300Lb+ across the line. Steve Rivera was a 5'11" 184 lb possession receiver? So the 1975 team would not dominate based on size, strength and likely even speed. In fact, they would be at a huge disadvantage, especially in the trenches. And scheme? The 1975 plays were like sandlot compared to today's.

B.A. Bearacus said:

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Big C said:

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I am curious as to what inspired this hypothetical, Mr. Bearacus, but there is only one way to find out its answer for sure: Invent a time machine! I will begin work on this soon and get back to you...

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I just wanted to point out how historically dominant our 2021 squad is and also because I wanted to use Wonder Boys in a sentence.

Game stats by modern Cal players against the Wonder Boys:

Jahvid Best: 500 yards in the 1st half
Desean Jackson: 20 TDs, 19 on punt returns.
Marshawn Lynch: 17 yards per carry

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Okay, I'm not 100% sure about this, but I believe there were only Andy Smith's Wonder Teams, not "Wonder Boys" (though Stanfurd had "Wow Boys" and "Vow Boys", all of which would surely be torn up by Jahvid, DJ and Marshawn).

Wonderful discussion though!

Why does Sonny Dykes live rent free in so many of your heads? Sounding like a bunch of crazy ex-gf's.

calumnus said:

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bearister said:

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Eastern Oregon Bear said:

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B.A. Bearacus said:

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Could any prior Cal squad (with original coach) from before 1990 realistically beat the 2021 Bears? If so, which one? Let's assume it's modern rules. Sorry Big C, the Wonder Boys would get their asses handed to them.

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Maybe 1975. They were loaded with NFL talent on offense. Chuck Muncie and Wesley Walker. Joe Roth had an NFL future if he hadn't died. Probably would have score quite a few points to cover what the 1975 defense would give up.

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That game is a 30+ loss for the 2021 squad. Modern rules? That would just make the whuppin' worse. Back then linebackers decapitated players.

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A couple of issues. First, Cal's best lineman in 1975, Ted Albrecht, was 6'4" 250 lbs, which was typical for the era but that is the size of a TE on the 2021 team. The 2021 OL is 300Lb+ across the line. Steve Rivera was a 5'11" 184 lb possession receiver? So the 1975 team would not dominate based on size, strength and likely even speed. In fact, they would be at a huge disadvantage, especially in the trenches. And scheme? The 1975 plays were like sandlot compared to today's.

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You make some fair comments about the physical differences. I think it would be a very high scoring game. No linebacker on Cal's team today could run with Muncie and with this year's DBs, I think we can safely say that Rivera and Walker would run wild. Roth was a plenty mobile QB who could avoid the rush well enough to buy time to throw and hit players IN STRIDE, something Garbers has yet to master.

flounder said:

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Why does Sonny Dykes live rent free in so many of your heads? Sounding like a bunch of crazy ex-gf's.

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More like the second wife who's tired of the husband mentioning the virtues of the first wife who left him for the traveling salesman. My post was targeted at the portion of you who have a tendency to bring up Sonny every time this team struggles. He had character issues, while Wilcox is known throughout the coaching ranks for being a solid guy.

Lol

okaydo said:

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B.A. Bearacus said:

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I haven't spent more than a minute thinking about Sonny Dykes in many a year. But in that minute I do always remember that we beat Texas twice, so I end up with positive feelings about him before moving on.

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Cal beat Texas at Austin in a full stadium. That was awesome.

Wilcox beat Ole Miss in a half-empty stadium, which makes that experience less satisfying.

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That is a valid point. However, it was plenty satisfying going into the Deep South (I know some consider Texas to be a part of it, but most do not) and coming away with the W.

chazzed said:

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okaydo said:

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B.A. Bearacus said:

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I haven't spent more than a minute thinking about Sonny Dykes in many a year. But in that minute I do always remember that we beat Texas twice, so I end up with positive feelings about him before moving on.

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Cal beat Texas at Austin in a full stadium. That was awesome.

Wilcox beat Ole Miss in a half-empty stadium, which makes that experience less satisfying.

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That is a valid point. However, it was plenty satisfying going into the Deep South (I know some consider Texas to be a part of it, but most do not) and coming away with the W.

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Yeah, but the fan base makes all the difference. In 2017, Ole Miss fans were ultra-confident that Cal would lose. In 2019, they couldn't care less.

To Wilcox's credit, he triumphed over a possible Top 10 QB in next year's draft.

The fact people are still mentioning Dykes shows just how lousy of a coach Wilcox is.

HuaHin (fka Uthai) said:

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The fact people are still mentioning Dykes shows just how lousy of a coach Wilcox is.

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Not really. We still complained about Holmoe all the time when Tedford was here. Comparisons to the previous coach are standard.

sycasey said:

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HuaHin (fka Uthai) said:

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The fact people are still mentioning Dykes shows just how lousy of a coach Wilcox is.

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Not really. We still complained about Holmoe all the time when Tedford was here. Comparisons to the previous coach are standard.

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There was never a discussion about "who was better" between Holmoe and JT. Just like there isn't a discussion about whether JT was better than Dykes or Wilcox, the records speak for themselves. Meanwhile the Dykes vs Wilcox debate continues precisely because the program has been mired in the same mediocrity under both coaches. We're debating flag-planting and have largely accepted both coaches are on-par, at least as Cal coaches. (SMU would probably beat Cal this season, but that's a different program and Sonny has had plenty of time to evolve. Sadly, so has Wilcox.)

HuaHin (fka Uthai) said:

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sycasey said:

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HuaHin (fka Uthai) said:

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The fact people are still mentioning Dykes shows just how lousy of a coach Wilcox is.

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Not really. We still complained about Holmoe all the time when Tedford was here. Comparisons to the previous coach are standard.

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There was never a discussion about "who was better" between Holmoe and JT. Just like there isn't a discussion about whether JT was better than Dykes or Wilcox, the records speak for themselves. Meanwhile the Dykes vs Wilcox debate continues precisely because the program has been mired in the same mediocrity under both coaches. We're debating flag-planting and have largely accepted both coaches are on-par, at least as Cal coaches. (SMU would probably beat Cal this season, but that's a different program and Sonny has had plenty of time to evolve. Sadly, so has Wilcox.)

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That's fine, but a different argument than people "mentioning" the previous coach.

My only take away is SD was not the only reason Cal football has had problems.

Major revisionist history here, but I firmly believe that if the Cal administration had been willing to pony up an extra ~$500k/year when Dykes was here so that he could hire one of the DCs that he actually wanted, we wouldn't be in this mess today. Dykes would have had a good season or two and bailed to a bigger program, so no payout would have been involved, and Cal would have been much better positioned to hire a higher profile head coach rather than going with an unproven DC who's had to learn on the job.

sycasey said:

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HuaHin (fka Uthai) said:

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sycasey said:

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HuaHin (fka Uthai) said:

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The fact people are still mentioning Dykes shows just how lousy of a coach Wilcox is.

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Not really. We still complained about Holmoe all the time when Tedford was here. Comparisons to the previous coach are standard.

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There was never a discussion about "who was better" between Holmoe and JT. Just like there isn't a discussion about whether JT was better than Dykes or Wilcox, the records speak for themselves. Meanwhile the Dykes vs Wilcox debate continues precisely because the program has been mired in the same mediocrity under both coaches. We're debating flag-planting and have largely accepted both coaches are on-par, at least as Cal coaches. (SMU would probably beat Cal this season, but that's a different program and Sonny has had plenty of time to evolve. Sadly, so has Wilcox.)

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That's fine, but a different argument than people "mentioning" the previous coach.

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During the Tedford years of success the periodic mentions of Holmoe were only to bash the many "insider" Holmoe loyalists who constantly told us what a great guy he was/is and that the reason we sucked was Cal's fault, not Holmoe's and we just had to accept it, that no one better would want the job, etc. and his contract should be extended, he just needed more time.

It is as also sometimes to note that even under Holmoe, Cal recruited well. Many recruits simply fall in love with the place, as many of us did when we were deciding where to go for college.

But mostly it was to bash the Holmoe loyalists after years of arguments on this board and say "Told you so"

PtownBear1 said:

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Major revisionist history here, but I firmly believe that if the Cal administration had been willing to pony up an extra ~$500k/year when Dykes was here so that he could hire one of the DCs that he actually wanted, we wouldn't be in this mess today. Dykes would have had a good season or two and bailed to a bigger program, so no payout would have been involved, and Cal would have been much better positioned to hire a higher profile head coach rather than going with an unproven DC who's had to learn on the job.

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Sonny was restocking the defense and bringing in good defensive players that just needed to be coached up, that we know.

I think that if we fired him for looking around because he thought his job was in danger, that was stupid. If you want him, you reassure him, if you dont want him you let him find that other job, maybe you even meet and encourage it.

Who we hired to replace Dykes is the question.
I just think that the record of DC's to HC at the college level is not as good as OCs, unless you have a lot of money to pay for a good OC too. The best option is a successful HC from a smaller program. Then an OC. Extra points if they are from California and even more if they are a Cal alum, which will help on recruiting and should help us retain them if they are successful. Mostly, I think a college HC, especially at Cal, is best to be outgoing, positive and charismatic, to help generate interest in the program among fans and recruits.

Big C said:

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kal kommie said:

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I'm glad Sonny is no longer our coach because of his 19-30 record, one bowl berth in four seasons, and truly historically awful defense. The Sonny pumpers who jump the moon every time SMU wins a game have selective amnesia around those facts.

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When everybody talks about why they think he was canned (with varying degrees of accuracy), the above is why he should have been canned. The clincher (for me) was when he tried to hire his third DC, but we were going to have to pay above market rate to get somebody good (like hazard pay to be his DC). Heck, we struggle just to pay market.

The rest of the Sonny Story, like the exaggerations about his job searching, concerned me less.

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Yup. Any coach that consistently sets NCAA and school records for worst should be fired.

It should be in their contract. No payout. Nothing, Just GTFO.

Lol

Sonny had a historically bad defense. Ok? Thats been repeated on here 1,000,000,000,000 times.

We get it.

But his teams are better now. Especially on defense. SMU is about to be 5-0 and probably ranked.

On the other hand, we are heading towards 1-4.

It's embarrassing the amount of attention Cal fans pay to Sonny. 2013 feels like a lifetime ago. Coaches learn, get better. Sonny is not the exact same coach he was in 2013.

He's turning into a fine coach, and if SMU keeps winning will probably be a hot commodity this off-season. Can you say the same about Wilcox???

Yikes

o

The former coach who is living rent-free in the minds of many Cal fans is 5-0. He'll sleepwalk to a winning record.

The current coach who was supposed to show Dykes how it's done is 1-4 against a set of equally weak opponents. One exactly equal. He's got a snowball-in-hell chance at 6 wins.

Eastern Oregon Bear said:

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socaliganbear said:

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ColoradoBear said:

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If a Dykes team had planted a Cal flag on the Stanford S after a win, I wouldn't not have complained.

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Yep.

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I doubt the meager crowd of Stanford fans would have put down their Merlot long enough to complain.

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They were too busy storming the field.

I'm still glad that Dykes moved on.