With Oregon losing to a decent, but not world beater Furd team, the Pac 12 likely stays out of the payoffs again. Oregon is the one program, other than mis-managed SC, to get anything looking like a decent recruiting class as the recruiting drain eastward continues. The weekly intra-conference losses by top tier teams to what are mediocre programs takes place during the Pac football season again and again. The most likely way to see any Pac-12 team in the playoffs any time soon is a huge expansion of the playoffs. But then comes the new Pac Commissioner. The guy that leads voices suggesting playoff expansion be paused amid SEC additions. Brilliant move that.

Once the COVID pandemic hit, athletic programs were suspended, schools were partially closed, and matters went from bad to extreme. Most of the 12 athletic departments have a high level of debt including borrowing on future revenues. Some will take years to get out from under it. Their parent universities are in different levels of the same kind of trouble. Per Commissioner George, there are only two schools in the conference that were revenue positive in the last full season of 2019-20; Oregon and Stanford. While the new Commish is busy chest-pounding about the Alliance, the one thing that is clear is the Alliance isn't going to change schedules or playoffs or mach else for some time in the future. The TV revenues may go up in a few years, but in the interim, attendance revenues are tanking. Meanwhile Pac 12 athletic debt is mounting. Looking at attendance figures, maybe no one cares. Cal, by way of example, is bottoming out in the two revenue sports, basketball and football, without any apparent internal repercussions.

From an external perspective, the perception among revenue sports fans and recruits typically is based on how well the top programs are doing. Scott had the advantage of two national powers in SC and Cal, and then Furd and Washington or Oregon. But at some point those programs all have turned down, with maybe Oregon turning back around, or maybe not after they crashed and burned on stupid defensive mistakes (but, wait, what about TDR?). The Commissioner doesn't have that advantage right now of an elite football program, and it doesn't seem like he gets that.

It was completely within the Pacs control to avoid the problem in Palo Alto today, but Stanford's last drive in regulation was an abomination of officiating.

wifeisafurd said:

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With Oregon losing to a decent, but not world beater Furd team, the Pac 12 likely stays out of the payoffs again. Oregon is the one program, other than mis-managed SC, to get anything looking like a decent recruiting class as the recruiting drain eastward continues. The weekly intra-conference losses by top tier teams to what are mediocre programs takes place during the Pac football season again and again. The most likely way to see any Pac-12 team in the playoffs any time soon is a huge expansion of the playoffs. But then comes the new Pac Commissioner. The guy that leads voices suggesting playoff expansion be paused amid SEC additions. Brilliant move that.

Once the COVID pandemic hit, athletic programs were suspended, schools were partially closed, and matters went from bad to extreme. Most of the 12 athletic departments have a high level of debt including borrowing on future revenues. Some will take years to get out from under it. Their parent universities are in different levels of the same kind of trouble. Per Commissioner George, there are only two schools in the conference that were revenue positive in the last full season of 2019-20; Oregon and Stanford. While the new Commish is busy chest-pounding about the Alliance, the one thing that is clear is the Alliance isn't going to change schedules or playoffs or mach else for some time in the future. The TV revenues may go up in a few years, but in the interim, attendance revenues are tanking. Meanwhile Pac 12 athletic debt is mounting. Looking at attendance figures, maybe no one cares. Cal, by way of example, is bottoming out in the two revenue sports, basketball and football, without any apparent internal repercussions.

From an external perspective, the perception among revenue sports fans and recruits typically is based on how well the top programs are doing. Scott had the advantage of two national powers in SC and Cal, and then Furd and Washington or Oregon. But at some point those programs all have turned down, with maybe Oregon turning back around, or maybe not after they crashed and burned on stupid defensive mistakes (but, wait, what about TDR?). The Commissioner doesn't have that advantage right now of an elite football program, and it doesn't seem like he gets that.

---

A couple thoughts…

The pause on playoff expansion was a smart move because by waiting until the end of the current contract, every network/streaming service will be able to bid on the expanded product thus driving the price through the roof. If expansion were to take place before the conclusion of the current contract, ESPN would have the exclusive right to bid on the revised product. That would result in the CFP leaving a ton of money on the table.

"Cal…bottoming out…without any apparent internal repercussions". May I remind you that you are a champion of the current AD. Being a significant donor, it is your responsibility light a fire under the guy's chair thus creating "repercussions".

wifeisafurd said:

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With Oregon losing to a decent, but not world beater Furd team, the Pac 12 likely stays out of the payoffs again. Oregon is the one program, other than mis-managed SC, to get anything looking like a decent recruiting class as the recruiting drain eastward continues. The weekly intra-conference losses by top tier teams to what are mediocre programs takes place during the Pac football season again and again. The most likely way to see any Pac-12 team in the playoffs any time soon is a huge expansion of the playoffs. But then comes the new Pac Commissioner. The guy that leads voices suggesting playoff expansion be paused amid SEC additions. Brilliant move that.

Once the COVID pandemic hit, athletic programs were suspended, schools were partially closed, and matters went from bad to extreme. Most of the 12 athletic departments have a high level of debt including borrowing on future revenues. Some will take years to get out from under it. Their parent universities are in different levels of the same kind of trouble. Per Commissioner George, there are only two schools in the conference that were revenue positive in the last full season of 2019-20; Oregon and Stanford. While the new Commish is busy chest-pounding about the Alliance, the one thing that is clear is the Alliance isn't going to change schedules or playoffs or mach else for some time in the future. The TV revenues may go up in a few years, but in the interim, attendance revenues are tanking. Meanwhile Pac 12 athletic debt is mounting. Looking at attendance figures, maybe no one cares. Cal, by way of example, is bottoming out in the two revenue sports, basketball and football, without any apparent internal repercussions.

From an external perspective, the perception among revenue sports fans and recruits typically is based on how well the top programs are doing. Scott had the advantage of two national powers in SC and Cal, and then Furd and Washington or Oregon. But at some point those programs all have turned down, with maybe Oregon turning back around, or maybe not after they crashed and burned on stupid defensive mistakes (but, wait, what about TDR?). The Commissioner doesn't have that advantage right now of an elite football program, and it doesn't seem like he gets that.

---

You make many good points. To echo others in this thread, I think that waiting on the playoff expansion until the TV rights to the playoff are up is smart. The idea is to model it like the NFL, with multiple broadcast partners bidding up the rights. Has worked out amazingly well for them.

I think the new commissioner likely understands that he needs a few anchor programs, but he can't recruit players for the teams. What's he supposed to do, loudly lament to the media that all the teams are terrible?

The long and the short of it, as much as we all hate to admit it, is that college football does well where college football is a huge deal. That's the south and the midwest. it is not the coasts. Like most of society, the rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer.

About those internal repercussions, where would the come from?

It would be nice if some major donors to the university (not just athletics) shut it down. Get the attention of the chancellor. Withhold donations until a serious university commitment to athletics is made.

But, we all know that's a pipe dream.

71Bear said:

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wifeisafurd said:

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With Oregon losing to a decent, but not world beater Furd team, the Pac 12 likely stays out of the payoffs again. Oregon is the one program, other than mis-managed SC, to get anything looking like a decent recruiting class as the recruiting drain eastward continues. The weekly intra-conference losses by top tier teams to what are mediocre programs takes place during the Pac football season again and again. The most likely way to see any Pac-12 team in the playoffs any time soon is a huge expansion of the playoffs. But then comes the new Pac Commissioner. The guy that leads voices suggesting playoff expansion be paused amid SEC additions. Brilliant move that.

Once the COVID pandemic hit, athletic programs were suspended, schools were partially closed, and matters went from bad to extreme. Most of the 12 athletic departments have a high level of debt including borrowing on future revenues. Some will take years to get out from under it. Their parent universities are in different levels of the same kind of trouble. Per Commissioner George, there are only two schools in the conference that were revenue positive in the last full season of 2019-20; Oregon and Stanford. While the new Commish is busy chest-pounding about the Alliance, the one thing that is clear is the Alliance isn't going to change schedules or playoffs or mach else for some time in the future. The TV revenues may go up in a few years, but in the interim, attendance revenues are tanking. Meanwhile Pac 12 athletic debt is mounting. Looking at attendance figures, maybe no one cares. Cal, by way of example, is bottoming out in the two revenue sports, basketball and football, without any apparent internal repercussions.

From an external perspective, the perception among revenue sports fans and recruits typically is based on how well the top programs are doing. Scott had the advantage of two national powers in SC and Cal, and then Furd and Washington or Oregon. But at some point those programs all have turned down, with maybe Oregon turning back around, or maybe not after they crashed and burned on stupid defensive mistakes (but, wait, what about TDR?). The Commissioner doesn't have that advantage right now of an elite football program, and it doesn't seem like he gets that.

---

A couple thoughts…

The pause on playoff expansion was a smart move because by waiting until the end of the current contract, every network/streaming service will be able to bid on the expanded product thus driving the price through the roof. If expansion were to take place before the conclusion of the current contract, ESPN would have the exclusive right to bid on the revised product. That would result in the CFP leaving a ton of money on the table.

---

That is inaccurate. The real problem George has is he has to protect the Rose Bowl, which is against the current expansion proposal (the Rose Bowl wants its separate TV contract). The powers that be can agree to an expended playoff only applicable for 2024 and 2025 and pick up a few Billion dollars, and they can wait until the ESPN contract expires for years thereafter to come up with a new playoff. ESPN only controls the next two years If ESPN doesn't exercise its option for 2024 or 2025, then someone else will pay big money for the extra playoff games. And it all starts anew thereafter.

College Football Playoff Expansion Is in Peril - Sports Illustratedhttps://www.si.com College College Football

71Bear said:

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wifeisafurd said:

---

With Oregon losing to a decent, but not world beater Furd team, the Pac 12 likely stays out of the payoffs again. Oregon is the one program, other than mis-managed SC, to get anything looking like a decent recruiting class as the recruiting drain eastward continues. The weekly intra-conference losses by top tier teams to what are mediocre programs takes place during the Pac football season again and again. The most likely way to see any Pac-12 team in the playoffs any time soon is a huge expansion of the playoffs. But then comes the new Pac Commissioner. The guy that leads voices suggesting playoff expansion be paused amid SEC additions. Brilliant move that.

Once the COVID pandemic hit, athletic programs were suspended, schools were partially closed, and matters went from bad to extreme. Most of the 12 athletic departments have a high level of debt including borrowing on future revenues. Some will take years to get out from under it. Their parent universities are in different levels of the same kind of trouble. Per Commissioner George, there are only two schools in the conference that were revenue positive in the last full season of 2019-20; Oregon and Stanford. While the new Commish is busy chest-pounding about the Alliance, the one thing that is clear is the Alliance isn't going to change schedules or playoffs or mach else for some time in the future. The TV revenues may go up in a few years, but in the interim, attendance revenues are tanking. Meanwhile Pac 12 athletic debt is mounting. Looking at attendance figures, maybe no one cares. Cal, by way of example, is bottoming out in the two revenue sports, basketball and football, without any apparent internal repercussions.

From an external perspective, the perception among revenue sports fans and recruits typically is based on how well the top programs are doing. Scott had the advantage of two national powers in SC and Cal, and then Furd and Washington or Oregon. But at some point those programs all have turned down, with maybe Oregon turning back around, or maybe not after they crashed and burned on stupid defensive mistakes (but, wait, what about TDR?). The Commissioner doesn't have that advantage right now of an elite football program, and it doesn't seem like he gets that.

---

"Cal…bottoming out…without any apparent internal repercussions". May I remind you that you are a champion of the current AD. Being a significant donor, it is your responsibility light a fire under the guy's chair thus creating "repercussions".

---

Not that you get the interworking of power in the AD's office, but I may be the large donor to a certain sport, but that is not football or basketball. And my voice certainly carryies little weight in in football and basketball (nor necessarily should it).

Deflecting on the issue by a personal attack without sufficient knowledge may make you appear clever, but really doesn't address the issue in any substaive way. I mean your glowing praise of Wilcox and denunciation of Dykes aside, perhaps the AD just needs to hear some of your persuasive opinions to make changes, and your failure to educate him is why we are, where we are.

wifeisafurd said:

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71Bear said:

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wifeisafurd said:

---

With Oregon losing to a decent, but not world beater Furd team, the Pac 12 likely stays out of the payoffs again. Oregon is the one program, other than mis-managed SC, to get anything looking like a decent recruiting class as the recruiting drain eastward continues. The weekly intra-conference losses by top tier teams to what are mediocre programs takes place during the Pac football season again and again. The most likely way to see any Pac-12 team in the playoffs any time soon is a huge expansion of the playoffs. But then comes the new Pac Commissioner. The guy that leads voices suggesting playoff expansion be paused amid SEC additions. Brilliant move that.

Once the COVID pandemic hit, athletic programs were suspended, schools were partially closed, and matters went from bad to extreme. Most of the 12 athletic departments have a high level of debt including borrowing on future revenues. Some will take years to get out from under it. Their parent universities are in different levels of the same kind of trouble. Per Commissioner George, there are only two schools in the conference that were revenue positive in the last full season of 2019-20; Oregon and Stanford. While the new Commish is busy chest-pounding about the Alliance, the one thing that is clear is the Alliance isn't going to change schedules or playoffs or mach else for some time in the future. The TV revenues may go up in a few years, but in the interim, attendance revenues are tanking. Meanwhile Pac 12 athletic debt is mounting. Looking at attendance figures, maybe no one cares. Cal, by way of example, is bottoming out in the two revenue sports, basketball and football, without any apparent internal repercussions.

From an external perspective, the perception among revenue sports fans and recruits typically is based on how well the top programs are doing. Scott had the advantage of two national powers in SC and Cal, and then Furd and Washington or Oregon. But at some point those programs all have turned down, with maybe Oregon turning back around, or maybe not after they crashed and burned on stupid defensive mistakes (but, wait, what about TDR?). The Commissioner doesn't have that advantage right now of an elite football program, and it doesn't seem like he gets that.

---

A couple thoughts…

The pause on playoff expansion was a smart move because by waiting until the end of the current contract, every network/streaming service will be able to bid on the expanded product thus driving the price through the roof. If expansion were to take place before the conclusion of the current contract, ESPN would have the exclusive right to bid on the revised product. That would result in the CFP leaving a ton of money on the table.

---

That is inaccurate. The real problem George has is he has to protect the Rose Bowl, which is against the current expansion proposal (the Rose Bowl wants its separate TV contract). The powers that be can agree to an expended playoff only applicable for 2024 and 2025 and pick up a few Billion dollars, and they can wait until the ESPN contract expires for years thereafter to come up with a new playoff. ESPN only controls the next two years If ESPN doesn't exercise its option for 2024 or 2025, then someone else will pay big money for the extra playoff games. And it all starts anew thereafter.

College Football Playoff Expansion Is in Peril - Sports Illustratedhttps://www.si.com College College Football

---

I disagree. I have read enough on this subject from a variety of sources to know that what you are suggesting is completely unrealistic. ESPN owns the rights for the next several years. They are not giving up anything to anyone without something in return. Do you really think the executives who run Disney are that stupid?

It is all about the next contract. The Alliance partners know that and are willing to wait.

71Bear said:

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wifeisafurd said:

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71Bear said:

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wifeisafurd said:

---

With Oregon losing to a decent, but not world beater Furd team, the Pac 12 likely stays out of the payoffs again. Oregon is the one program, other than mis-managed SC, to get anything looking like a decent recruiting class as the recruiting drain eastward continues. The weekly intra-conference losses by top tier teams to what are mediocre programs takes place during the Pac football season again and again. The most likely way to see any Pac-12 team in the playoffs any time soon is a huge expansion of the playoffs. But then comes the new Pac Commissioner. The guy that leads voices suggesting playoff expansion be paused amid SEC additions. Brilliant move that.

Once the COVID pandemic hit, athletic programs were suspended, schools were partially closed, and matters went from bad to extreme. Most of the 12 athletic departments have a high level of debt including borrowing on future revenues. Some will take years to get out from under it. Their parent universities are in different levels of the same kind of trouble. Per Commissioner George, there are only two schools in the conference that were revenue positive in the last full season of 2019-20; Oregon and Stanford. While the new Commish is busy chest-pounding about the Alliance, the one thing that is clear is the Alliance isn't going to change schedules or playoffs or mach else for some time in the future. The TV revenues may go up in a few years, but in the interim, attendance revenues are tanking. Meanwhile Pac 12 athletic debt is mounting. Looking at attendance figures, maybe no one cares. Cal, by way of example, is bottoming out in the two revenue sports, basketball and football, without any apparent internal repercussions.

From an external perspective, the perception among revenue sports fans and recruits typically is based on how well the top programs are doing. Scott had the advantage of two national powers in SC and Cal, and then Furd and Washington or Oregon. But at some point those programs all have turned down, with maybe Oregon turning back around, or maybe not after they crashed and burned on stupid defensive mistakes (but, wait, what about TDR?). The Commissioner doesn't have that advantage right now of an elite football program, and it doesn't seem like he gets that.

---

A couple thoughts…

The pause on playoff expansion was a smart move because by waiting until the end of the current contract, every network/streaming service will be able to bid on the expanded product thus driving the price through the roof. If expansion were to take place before the conclusion of the current contract, ESPN would have the exclusive right to bid on the revised product. That would result in the CFP leaving a ton of money on the table.

---

That is inaccurate. The real problem George has is he has to protect the Rose Bowl, which is against the current expansion proposal (the Rose Bowl wants its separate TV contract). The powers that be can agree to an expended playoff only applicable for 2024 and 2025 and pick up a few Billion dollars, and they can wait until the ESPN contract expires for years thereafter to come up with a new playoff. ESPN only controls the next two years If ESPN doesn't exercise its option for 2024 or 2025, then someone else will pay big money for the extra playoff games. And it all starts anew thereafter.

College Football Playoff Expansion Is in Peril - Sports Illustratedhttps://www.si.com College College Football

---

I disagree. I have read enough on this subject from a variety of sources to know that what you are suggesting is completely unrealistic. ESPN owns the rights for the next several years. They are not giving up anything to anyone without something in return. Do you really think the executives who run Disney are that stupid?

It is all about the next contract. The Alliance partners know that and are willing to wait.

---

Clearly you should do more reading. They have the rights for two more years, and it is a right of first refusal on additional games. If you don't know the contract terms, you can hardly be expected to provide any type of meaningful, and not conclusionary, analysis.

Arguing fact on the growls board? You two must be lost.