"Nov. 18, 1966: Koufax retires at 30


Photo: Bettmann Archives/Getty Images

55 years ago today, Sandy Koufax shocked the world by retiring at age 30, citing his painfully arthritic arm and the fear of permanent damage.

"In those days there was no surgery. The wisdom was if you went in there, it would only make things worse. ... Now you go in, fix it and you're OK for next spring." Koufax, years later.

The big picture: The Brooklyn native joined his hometown Dodgers in 1955 at age 19, compiling a good but not great 4.10 ERA in his first six seasons. Then came 1961.

In six seasons from age 25-30, the lefty went 129-47 with a 2.19 ERA, winning three Triple Crowns, three Cy Youngs, and one MVP.

He also won three World Series in four tries, with a 0.95 ERA across 57 innings. All in all, he had perhaps the greatest prime in MLB history.

Willie Stargell, the Pirates Hall of Famer who managed just two hits in 23 at-bats against Koufax, put it best: "Hitting against Sandy Koufax is like drinking coffee with a fork."

The bottom line: Perhaps modern surgery would have extended Koufax's career. But there's something to be said for going out on top."
Axios

bearister said:

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"Nov. 18, 1966: Koufax retires at 30


Photo: Bettmann Archives/Getty Images

55 years ago today, Sandy Koufax shocked the world by retiring at age 30, citing his painfully arthritic arm and the fear of permanent damage.

"In those days there was no surgery. The wisdom was if you went in there, it would only make things worse. ... Now you go in, fix it and you're OK for next spring." Koufax, years later.

The big picture: The Brooklyn native joined his hometown Dodgers in 1955 at age 19, compiling a good but not great 4.10 ERA in his first six seasons. Then came 1961.

In six seasons from age 25-30, the lefty went 129-47 with a 2.19 ERA, winning three Triple Crowns, three Cy Youngs, and one MVP.

He also won three World Series in four tries, with a 0.95 ERA across 57 innings. All in all, he had perhaps the greatest prime in MLB history.

Willie Stargell, the Pirates Hall of Famer who managed just two hits in 23 at-bats against Koufax, put it best: "Hitting against Sandy Koufax is like drinking coffee with a fork."

The bottom line: Perhaps modern surgery would have extended Koufax's career. But there's something to be said for going out on top."
Axios

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I am glad I had the opportunity to watch him pitch. He is a unique individual - highly respected by everyone, including fans of his arch rivals.

Only two players have won multiple Cy Young Awards, thrown multiple no-hitters and been on multiple World Series championship teams - Koufax and Tim Lincecum. Koufax is indeed in rare company.

I knew of Koufax but was too young to understand his style as a pitcher. Can one of you, ahem older timers clue me in?

Lefty:
Great Fastball? Any guess how he would stack up today in velocity?
Great Curveball?
Great Control?

How did he compare to Bob Gibson who I did see a little more...........of course Lefties and Righties are two different animals.


p.s. is "Triple Crowns" a type above? And how many no hitters did he have?

Also insisted that his teammate Don Drysdale - who was great but not as great - get the same salary.

He must have eventually gotten surgery or some other remedy to his arm problem as I remember reading a number of years back that in spring training, I believe, the "55 year-old Koufax was throwing 85 mile an hour fastballs". As a Giants fan I was not sorry to see him retire as the 60's were frustrating with the Giants trotting out the big guns, and some good pitching too, and seeing the Dodgers win 2-1 games with their pitching. Although we lived 100 miles away my Dad would take us to games, particularly Giants-Dodgers games. Think of the Hall of Fame talent that was on the field in those days.

NVBear78 said:

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I knew of Koufax but was too young to understand his style as a pitcher. Can one of you, ahem older timers clue me in?

Lefty:
Great Fastball? Any guess how he would stack up today in velocity?
Great Curveball?
Great Control?

How did he compare to Bob Gibson who I did see a little more...........of course Lefties and Righties are two different animals.


p.s. is "Triple Crowns" a type above? And how many no hitters did he have?

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Triple Crown - Wins, Strikeouts, ERA.

This is no longer a significant category since the advent of the "Bullpen Era". In today's game, starters are not expected to go beyond 7 innings. This year's playoffs were a great example of why wins by starters are no big deal. Heck, this year's Cy Young winners won 13 and 11 games.

Koufax had 4 no-hitters in his career, including the only perfect game in Dodger history.

Koufax and Gibson threw the ball as hard as anyone in the game. In addition, Koufax had a devastating curve - that was the key to his success. As a hitter, you had to be ready to hit the fastball. That created big problems for them when he threw a curveball.

Control is what Koufax's story is all about - early in his career, he struggled with harnessing his talent. He couldn't get the ball over the plate. Once he was able to control his pitches, he was the best in the game. He didn't have an extended run of a decade or more but he was amazing in the half-decade he was at the top of his game.

Larno said:

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He must have eventually gotten surgery or some other remedy to his arm problem as I remember reading a number of years back that in spring training, I believe, the "55 year-old Koufax was throwing 85 mile an hour fastballs". As a Giants fan I was not sorry to see him retire as the 60's were frustrating with the Giants trotting out the big guns, and some good pitching too, and seeing the Dodgers win 2-1 games with their pitching. Although we lived 100 miles away my Dad would take us to games, particularly Giants-Dodgers games. Think of the Hall of Fame talent that was on the field in those days.

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The 1960's were a Golden Era for baseball fans in California.

Larno said:

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He must have eventually gotten surgery or some other remedy to his arm problem as I remember reading a number of years back that in spring training, I believe, the "55 year-old Koufax was throwing 85 mile an hour fastballs". As a Giants fan I was not sorry to see him retire as the 60's were frustrating with the Giants trotting out the big guns, and some good pitching too, and seeing the Dodgers win 2-1 games with their pitching. Although we lived 100 miles away my Dad would take us to games, particularly Giants-Dodgers games. Think of the Hall of Fame talent that was on the field in those days.

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I grew up in that era...the Giants could roll out a lineup with 4 Hall of Famers (Mays, McCovey, Marichal and Cepeda) but year after year they came in 2nd to the Dodgers. Freakin' Dodgers.

Orwell's 1984 and the book below may be the only ones I read twice:

Larno said:

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He must have eventually gotten surgery or some other remedy to his arm problem as I remember reading a number of years back that in spring training, I believe, the "55 year-old Koufax was throwing 85 mile an hour fastballs". As a Giants fan I was not sorry to see him retire as the 60's were frustrating with the Giants trotting out the big guns, and some good pitching too, and seeing the Dodgers win 2-1 games with their pitching. Although we lived 100 miles away my Dad would take us to games, particularly Giants-Dodgers games. Think of the Hall of Fame talent that was on the field in those days.

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The 60's were brutal for a young Giants fan like me. In those pre-playoff days the Giants took second place in the National League something like five times in a row...

There is a story in Jane Leavey's book about about Koufax pitching in the World Series against the Yankees. I'm not sure which player it was but it was a Yankee that had the fewest strikeouts at the plate in MLB that season. As the player was headed to the plate for his 4th at bat (the prior 3 were Koufax strikeouts), Mantle said to the player, "Good luck up there." The player responded, "I'll need it. I haven't been able to see even one of Koufax's pitches yet."*

The Incomparable Career of Sandy Koufax - The Atlantic


https://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2016/10/sandy-koufax/503036/

Several players swore Koufax' curve had 2 feet of movement in it. Physics experts opined that isn't possible.



Cruel Curveball Science; Nasty Koufax | WIRED


https://www.wired.com/2012/04/the-cruel-reality-of-curveballs-the-beauty-of-sandy-koufax/

*Based on this story below, it must have been Mantle who couldn't see the ball and Maris that wished him luck.

" So in the first game in which they meet Game 1 of the 1963 World Series, Dodgers v Yankees Koufax faces Mantle three times. On the first at-bat he strikes out Mantle throwing nothing but fastballs.

Mantle's second time up, Koufax gets two strikes on him. Everyone in the park is thinking heat. But Koufax shakes off the fastball sign once, twice. Catcher catches on, puts down two fingers to call for the curve. And Koufax'ss curve was a horrid thing to a batter, possibly the best curveball ever, a nose-to-toes diver that just killed batters, flummoxed them utterly, destroyed their minds. Yet still, he'd been told NOT to throw this thing to Mantle. So he decdies he's going to. And he does.

Ball comes in eye-high, just buzzing … and just before reaching the plate it dives, crossing the plate at Mantle's knees. Mantle flinches, just the tiniest bit, but never moves the bat. Ump calls strike three. Mantle stands there an extra beat, then turns to the catcher and says, "How the f@uck is anybody supposed to hit that *****" And walks back to the dugout.**"

NVBear78 said:

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Larno said:

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He must have eventually gotten surgery or some other remedy to his arm problem as I remember reading a number of years back that in spring training, I believe, the "55 year-old Koufax was throwing 85 mile an hour fastballs". As a Giants fan I was not sorry to see him retire as the 60's were frustrating with the Giants trotting out the big guns, and some good pitching too, and seeing the Dodgers win 2-1 games with their pitching. Although we lived 100 miles away my Dad would take us to games, particularly Giants-Dodgers games. Think of the Hall of Fame talent that was on the field in those days.

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The 60's were brutal for a young Giants fan like me. In those pre-playoff days the Giants took second place in the National League something like five times in a row...

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Close. The Giants were second place 5 years in a row, but the 5th year was the first year of divisional play, of the NLCS. '65 and '66, second to the Dodgers, '67 and '68, second to the Cardinals, and '69, second in the NL West to the Braves.

I grew up in the 60s in the era before YouTube and taught myself how to pitch from baseball instructional books. Koufax was my main model (though I'm a righty). He had an over the top delivery like an outfielder, generating power from his legs and back and length and then generating torque and spin with his wrist and grip. He had two main pitches: a 4 seam fastball with tremendous backspin that hopped at the end, and an old fashioned overhand drop curve with tremendous top spin that would drop a foot at the end. His great success was the more difficult it became to distinguish which of those two pitches he was throwing, and even if you guessed right, hitting it cleanly. He developed great control and threw strikes. The fact he threw over the top and a lot of the ball placement and movement was mostly in the vertical plane made him equally difficult to hit by righties and lefties. It also is harder for a batter to make vertical adjustments mid-swing.

What I remember most about Koufax is that he was only average in his first seven seasons in the league, and then in 1962 he suddenly lowered his ERA to league-leading levels and became a star. Not sure what happened to make that huge difference in performance. One of the posts above said that he developed better control. But even that wouldn't have resulted in such incredible improvement. Did he also develop some new pitch at that time?

Since this is a baseball thread:

NEW YORK (AP) — Two-way star Shohei Ohtani of the Los Angeles Angels has been named the unanimous AL MVP.

— Jonathan Lemire (@JonLemire) November 18, 2021

Well deserved. Would be fun to see him and Trout in the playoffs someday.

annarborbear said:

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What I remember most about Koufax is that he was only average in his first seven seasons in the league, and then in 1962 he suddenly lowered his ERA to league-leading levels and became a star. Not sure what happened to make that huge difference in performance. One of the posts above said that he developed better control. But even that wouldn't have resulted in such incredible improvement. Did he also develop some new pitch at that time?

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In his early years he had injuries and was used more sporadically. In 1961 he made a commitment to getting in better shape, including running for better endurance. Made some tweaks in his delivery, but also stopped trying to throw "hard," which improved his control, helped his endurance and gave his pitches more movement. He threw first pitch strikes and stopped walking batters.

I think the move from Ebbets to the LA Coliseum in 1958 to the much more pitcher friendly Dodger Stadium in 1962 played a role too. Maybe Maury Wills and a better fielding team as well?

I'm a die-hard Giants fan - saw Koufax vs. Marichal at the 'stick a couple of times. What GREAT times those were! Feel SOOOOO lucky. And without hesitation Koufax to me is the greatest pitcher of all time. I'll carry that to my grave - and that's coming from a giants die-hard.

Dgoldnbaer said:

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I'm a die-hard Giants fan - saw Koufax vs. Marichal at the 'stick a couple of times. What GREAT times those were! Feel SOOOOO lucky. And without hesitation Koufax to me is the greatest pitcher of all time. I'll carry that to my grave - and that's coming from a giants die-hard.

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I turned 11 years old the month after this issue came out. I put the cover on my bedroom wall:


I purchased this autographed bobble head years ago at a charity auction:



At the end of the month that Marichal SI cover came out, Juan went after Johnny Roseboro with a bat during a game. My parents were taking me and a buddy to Golden Gate Park and we were listening to the game on the car radio.

Years later it dawned on me how brave Sandy Koufax was to come to the aid of his teammate under those circumstances. He could have been severely injured or killed.

bearister said:

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Dgoldnbaer said:

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I'm a die-hard Giants fan - saw Koufax vs. Marichal at the 'stick a couple of times. What GREAT times those were! Feel SOOOOO lucky. And without hesitation Koufax to me is the greatest pitcher of all time. I'll carry that to my grave - and that's coming from a giants die-hard.

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I turned 11 years old the month after this issue came out. I put the cover on my bedroom wall:


I purchased this autographed bobble head years ago at a charity auction:



At the end of the month that Marichal SI cover came out, Juan went after Johnny Roseboro with a bat during a game. My parents were taking me and a buddy to Golden Gate Park and we were listening to the game on the car radio.

Years later it dawned on me how brave Sandy Koufax was to come to the aid of his teammate under those circumstances. He could have been severely injured or killed.

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Does anybody know if Roseboro was really buzzing Marichal's ear with his return throw to Koufax? I wanted to believe that as a die hard Giants fan.

NVBear78 said:

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bearister said:

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Dgoldnbaer said:

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I'm a die-hard Giants fan - saw Koufax vs. Marichal at the 'stick a couple of times. What GREAT times those were! Feel SOOOOO lucky. And without hesitation Koufax to me is the greatest pitcher of all time. I'll carry that to my grave - and that's coming from a giants die-hard.

---

I turned 11 years old the month after this issue came out. I put the cover on my bedroom wall:


I purchased this autographed bobble head years ago at a charity auction:



At the end of the month that Marichal SI cover came out, Juan went after Johnny Roseboro with a bat during a game. My parents were taking me and a buddy to Golden Gate Park and we were listening to the game on the car radio.

Years later it dawned on me how brave Sandy Koufax was to come to the aid of his teammate under those circumstances. He could have been severely injured or killed.

---

Does anybody know if Roseboro was really buzzing Marichal's ear with his return throw to Koufax? I wanted to believe that as a die hard Giants fan.

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Yes, he did buzz him intentionally….

Read all about it

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/13463881/juan-marichal-hit-john-roseboro-bat-ugly-baseball-brawl-50-years-ago

Dgoldnbaer said:

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I'm a die-hard Giants fan - saw Koufax vs. Marichal at the 'stick a couple of times. What GREAT times those were! Feel SOOOOO lucky. And without hesitation Koufax to me is the greatest pitcher of all time. I'll carry that to my grave - and that's coming from a giants die-hard.

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Spot On!

….then there was the time Mr. Ed took him deep.

Sandy's ex father in law with Davy Crockett at the Alamo:

71Bear said:

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bearister said:

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"Nov. 18, 1966: Koufax retires at 30


Photo: Bettmann Archives/Getty Images

55 years ago today, Sandy Koufax shocked the world by retiring at age 30, citing his painfully arthritic arm and the fear of permanent damage.

"In those days there was no surgery. The wisdom was if you went in there, it would only make things worse. ... Now you go in, fix it and you're OK for next spring." Koufax, years later.

The big picture: The Brooklyn native joined his hometown Dodgers in 1955 at age 19, compiling a good but not great 4.10 ERA in his first six seasons. Then came 1961.

In six seasons from age 25-30, the lefty went 129-47 with a 2.19 ERA, winning three Triple Crowns, three Cy Youngs, and one MVP.

He also won three World Series in four tries, with a 0.95 ERA across 57 innings. All in all, he had perhaps the greatest prime in MLB history.

Willie Stargell, the Pirates Hall of Famer who managed just two hits in 23 at-bats against Koufax, put it best: "Hitting against Sandy Koufax is like drinking coffee with a fork."

The bottom line: Perhaps modern surgery would have extended Koufax's career. But there's something to be said for going out on top."
Axios

---

I am glad I had the opportunity to watch him pitch. He is a unique individual - highly respected by everyone, including fans of his arch rivals.

Only two players have won multiple Cy Young Awards, thrown multiple no-hitters and been on multiple World Series championship teams - Koufax and Tim Lincecum. Koufax is indeed in rare company.

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I'd put it the other way round!

I was just weeding out my Giants bobblehead collection, and one of the few I decided to hang on to was that Juan Marichal (not autographed). (The ones that didn't make the cut: Benito Santiago, Ryan Vogelsong, Rich Aurelia, Kirk Rueter...)

Koufax missed a start in the World Series because it fell on Yom Kippur. Possibly the first time this altar boy ever heard of the high holy days.

My very first ball game was at Wrigley Field. It was my best friend's birthday, and his dad took three of us to the game. I was a big Cubs fan, but I also really liked the Dodgers. Koufax dominated the Cubs that sunny day, and broke the standing National League all time strikeout record in the game. I still have my scorecard, which I only partially filled in. It's one of my favorite childhood memories. I remember liking the hotdogs too.

bearister said:

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Orwell's 1984 and the book below may be the only ones I read twice:

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I have had this book on my shelf for years and haven't read yet. Damn procrastination. I'll read soon on your rec.

Pete Rose on Koufax and Marichal. I love interviews with Pete. He and John Salley are me favorite sports interviews.

OneTopOneChickenApple said:

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bearister said:

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Orwell's 1984 and the book below may be the only ones I read twice:

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I have had this book on my shelf for years and haven't read yet. Damn procrastination. I'll read soon on your rec.

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He could hold 6 baseballs in each hand and had major hops in hoops. The book is full of the kinds of facts that are packed into my sausage brain.

This book is awesome too:

Lifelong Dodger fan here. Koufax was before my time but my uncles used to tell me stories.

There's an interview with Bud Selig where he tells the story that Henry Aaron never talked about pitchers. Ever. They got on the bus after Koufax shut them down. Aaron said something like "I'm glad I don't have to face him again." Selig said it was the ONLY time he ever heard Aaron talk about a pitcher but that's how great Koufax was.