Cal Football: Bears Add Purdue Transfer QB Plummer

calumnus

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In reply to concernedparent • 3:12a, 1/13/22

concernedparent said:
71Bear said:
kal kommie said:
71Bear said:
bearsandgiants said:
Provided he stays healthy, I think he'll be as good if not better than having Garbers for another year. We should most definitely make a bowl. Should be a fun season and a chance to get things back on track.
Why the enthusiasm over a guy who was a second unit QB on good but not great team?

I see him as a solid back-up guy who won't embarrass you if the #1 is sidelined.

Johnson/Millner are the guys who should be vying for the starting role.
Plummer was #2 behind one of the better QBs in the country; vs OSU, MSU and Iowa, McConnell threw for 1301 yards, 9 TDs and 0 INTs. It's not a mark of mediocrity to be #2 behind a really good player.

In his 6 full starts the last two seasons (vs Minn, Rutgers, Nebraska, Oregon St, Connecticut and Notre Dame), Plummer threw for 1683 yards (71.5% comp), 15 TDs and 2 INTs. Plummer is the best passer we've had since Webb. He makes fast, decisive reads, has a quick release and is very accurate. I'd be shocked and very impressed if either Johnson or Millner could beat him out.

I think Plummer will prove to be a better suited QB for Musgrave than Garbers, and I say that while dissenting from those who wanted to see us move on from Chase as our starting QB. We're lucky to have such a soft landing after losing a 4-year starter QB.

Webb was a classic "pile up the yards between the 20's and flop when he gets in the red zone" QB. He was mediocre at best…..

I hope whoever our QB is can flop their way to 43 TDs.

37.5 points per game failure

5

82gradDLSdad

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In reply to 71Bear • 7:31a, 1/13/22

71Bear said:
concernedparent said:
71Bear said:
kal kommie said:
71Bear said:
bearsandgiants said:
Provided he stays healthy, I think he'll be as good if not better than having Garbers for another year. We should most definitely make a bowl. Should be a fun season and a chance to get things back on track.
Why the enthusiasm over a guy who was a second unit QB on good but not great team?

I see him as a solid back-up guy who won't embarrass you if the #1 is sidelined.

Johnson/Millner are the guys who should be vying for the starting role.
Plummer was #2 behind one of the better QBs in the country; vs OSU, MSU and Iowa, McConnell threw for 1301 yards, 9 TDs and 0 INTs. It's not a mark of mediocrity to be #2 behind a really good player.

In his 6 full starts the last two seasons (vs Minn, Rutgers, Nebraska, Oregon St, Connecticut and Notre Dame), Plummer threw for 1683 yards (71.5% comp), 15 TDs and 2 INTs. Plummer is the best passer we've had since Webb. He makes fast, decisive reads, has a quick release and is very accurate. I'd be shocked and very impressed if either Johnson or Millner could beat him out.

I think Plummer will prove to be a better suited QB for Musgrave than Garbers, and I say that while dissenting from those who wanted to see us move on from Chase as our starting QB. We're lucky to have such a soft landing after losing a 4-year starter QB.

Webb was a classic "pile up the yards between the 20's and flop when he gets in the red zone" QB. He was mediocre at best…..

I hope whoever our QB is can flop their way to 43 TDs.
And I would hope that whoever Wilcox selects as the #1 QB can lead Cal to winning record (something Webb was unable to do because of his penchant to screw up at the most inopportune time).

Yah, it was just Webb.

5

HearstMining

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In reply to 82gradDLSdad • 8:06a, 1/13/22

82gradDLSdad said:
71Bear said:
concernedparent said:
71Bear said:
kal kommie said:
71Bear said:
bearsandgiants said:
Provided he stays healthy, I think he'll be as good if not better than having Garbers for another year. We should most definitely make a bowl. Should be a fun season and a chance to get things back on track.
Why the enthusiasm over a guy who was a second unit QB on good but not great team?

I see him as a solid back-up guy who won't embarrass you if the #1 is sidelined.

Johnson/Millner are the guys who should be vying for the starting role.
Plummer was #2 behind one of the better QBs in the country; vs OSU, MSU and Iowa, McConnell threw for 1301 yards, 9 TDs and 0 INTs. It's not a mark of mediocrity to be #2 behind a really good player.

In his 6 full starts the last two seasons (vs Minn, Rutgers, Nebraska, Oregon St, Connecticut and Notre Dame), Plummer threw for 1683 yards (71.5% comp), 15 TDs and 2 INTs. Plummer is the best passer we've had since Webb. He makes fast, decisive reads, has a quick release and is very accurate. I'd be shocked and very impressed if either Johnson or Millner could beat him out.

I think Plummer will prove to be a better suited QB for Musgrave than Garbers, and I say that while dissenting from those who wanted to see us move on from Chase as our starting QB. We're lucky to have such a soft landing after losing a 4-year starter QB.

Webb was a classic "pile up the yards between the 20's and flop when he gets in the red zone" QB. He was mediocre at best…..

I hope whoever our QB is can flop their way to 43 TDs.
And I would hope that whoever Wilcox selects as the #1 QB can lead Cal to winning record (something Webb was unable to do because of his penchant to screw up at the most inopportune time).

Yah, it was just Webb.

No point in dumping on Webb as his shortcomings were consistent with the Dykes era. Under both Goff and Webb, Cal QB play came up short against the tough teams.

I don't know anything about Plummer, but I'm gonna pull for Millner/Johnson in this contest. I realize the transfer portal has changed the equation, but if Cal gets a reputation for transfer QBs parachuting in to become starters, it will be even tougher to attract top HS QBs. My main hope is that one of the three is a clear winner and that the entire Musgrave offense is installed by the first game.

2

82gradDLSdad

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In reply to HearstMining • 8:38a, 1/13/22

HearstMining said:
82gradDLSdad said:
71Bear said:
concernedparent said:
71Bear said:
kal kommie said:
71Bear said:
bearsandgiants said:
Provided he stays healthy, I think he'll be as good if not better than having Garbers for another year. We should most definitely make a bowl. Should be a fun season and a chance to get things back on track.
Why the enthusiasm over a guy who was a second unit QB on good but not great team?

I see him as a solid back-up guy who won't embarrass you if the #1 is sidelined.

Johnson/Millner are the guys who should be vying for the starting role.
Plummer was #2 behind one of the better QBs in the country; vs OSU, MSU and Iowa, McConnell threw for 1301 yards, 9 TDs and 0 INTs. It's not a mark of mediocrity to be #2 behind a really good player.

In his 6 full starts the last two seasons (vs Minn, Rutgers, Nebraska, Oregon St, Connecticut and Notre Dame), Plummer threw for 1683 yards (71.5% comp), 15 TDs and 2 INTs. Plummer is the best passer we've had since Webb. He makes fast, decisive reads, has a quick release and is very accurate. I'd be shocked and very impressed if either Johnson or Millner could beat him out.

I think Plummer will prove to be a better suited QB for Musgrave than Garbers, and I say that while dissenting from those who wanted to see us move on from Chase as our starting QB. We're lucky to have such a soft landing after losing a 4-year starter QB.

Webb was a classic "pile up the yards between the 20's and flop when he gets in the red zone" QB. He was mediocre at best…..

I hope whoever our QB is can flop their way to 43 TDs.
And I would hope that whoever Wilcox selects as the #1 QB can lead Cal to winning record (something Webb was unable to do because of his penchant to screw up at the most inopportune time).

Yah, it was just Webb.
No point in dumping on Webb as his shortcomings were consistent with the Dykes era. Under both Goff and Webb, Cal QB play came up short against the tough teams.

I don't know anything about Plummer, but I'm gonna pull for Millner/Johnson in this contest. I realize the transfer portal has changed the equation, but if Cal gets a reputation for transfer QBs parachuting in to become starters, it will be even tougher to attract top HS QBs. My main hope is that one of the three is a clear winner and that the entire Musgrave offense is installed by the first game.

I wouldn't have any problem with Cal being the place where experienced, undervalued QBs transferred in to shine. I don't need to build up any 'rooting' momentum for some freshman/sophomore while they adjust to the speed of D1 football. I wonder though if Musgrave can alter his system to get transfer QBs up to speed in a few months?

3

HighlandDutch

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In reply to 71Bear • 10:00a, 1/13/22

71Bear said:
concernedparent said:
71Bear said:
kal kommie said:
71Bear said:
bearsandgiants said:
Provided he stays healthy, I think he'll be as good if not better than having Garbers for another year. We should most definitely make a bowl. Should be a fun season and a chance to get things back on track.
Why the enthusiasm over a guy who was a second unit QB on good but not great team?

I see him as a solid back-up guy who won't embarrass you if the #1 is sidelined.

Johnson/Millner are the guys who should be vying for the starting role.
Plummer was #2 behind one of the better QBs in the country; vs OSU, MSU and Iowa, McConnell threw for 1301 yards, 9 TDs and 0 INTs. It's not a mark of mediocrity to be #2 behind a really good player.

In his 6 full starts the last two seasons (vs Minn, Rutgers, Nebraska, Oregon St, Connecticut and Notre Dame), Plummer threw for 1683 yards (71.5% comp), 15 TDs and 2 INTs. Plummer is the best passer we've had since Webb. He makes fast, decisive reads, has a quick release and is very accurate. I'd be shocked and very impressed if either Johnson or Millner could beat him out.

I think Plummer will prove to be a better suited QB for Musgrave than Garbers, and I say that while dissenting from those who wanted to see us move on from Chase as our starting QB. We're lucky to have such a soft landing after losing a 4-year starter QB.

Webb was a classic "pile up the yards between the 20's and flop when he gets in the red zone" QB. He was mediocre at best…..

I hope whoever our QB is can flop their way to 43 TDs.
And I would hope that whoever Wilcox selects as the #1 QB can lead Cal to winning record (something Webb was unable to do because of his penchant to screw up at the most inopportune time).

Just spitballing here, but I'd say the fact that Cal's 2016 defense gave up over 42 points per game may have had just a little bit to do with the losing record that year.

9

Rushinbear

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In reply to BearGoggles • 10:37a, 1/13/22

BearGoggles said:
71Bear said:
kal kommie said:
71Bear said:
bearsandgiants said:
Provided he stays healthy, I think he'll be as good if not better than having Garbers for another year. We should most definitely make a bowl. Should be a fun season and a chance to get things back on track.
Why the enthusiasm over a guy who was a second unit QB on good but not great team?

I see him as a solid back-up guy who won't embarrass you if the #1 is sidelined.

Johnson/Millner are the guys who should be vying for the starting role.
Plummer was #2 behind one of the better QBs in the country; vs OSU, MSU and Iowa, McConnell threw for 1301 yards, 9 TDs and 0 INTs. It's not a mark of mediocrity to be #2 behind a really good player.

In his 6 full starts the last two seasons (vs Minn, Rutgers, Nebraska, Oregon St, Connecticut and Notre Dame), Plummer threw for 1683 yards (71.5% comp), 15 TDs and 2 INTs. Plummer is the best passer we've had since Webb. He makes fast, decisive reads, has a quick release and is very accurate. I'd be shocked and very impressed if either Johnson or Millner could beat him out.

I think Plummer will prove to be a better suited QB for Musgrave than Garbers, and I say that while dissenting from those who wanted to see us move on from Chase as our starting QB. We're lucky to have such a soft landing after losing a 4-year starter QB.
Webb?? I hope he is better than that whether he is the #1 or #2.

Webb was a classic "pile up the yards between the 20's and flop when he gets in the red zone" QB. He was mediocre at best…..

Expectations should be much higher.

Cal hasn't had a consistent, winning QB since Rodgers………

Note: I have not seen Plummer play. The Purdue games I watched were played after he was benched.
So you haven't seen Plummer play, but you're willing to say "I see him as a solid back-up guy who won't embarrass you if the #1 is sidelined."

Interesting standard for making an assessment.

Joe Burrow transferred because he couldn't beat out JT Barrett and Dwayne Haskins.

Baker Mayfield left Texas Tech because he was beat out by the aforementioned Davis Webb.

Plummer is likely not as good as those guys. But to draw such a negative inference from a player being beat out - a player who you admittedly have never seen play - is a real reach.

Plummer is reportedly an accurate passer who gets the ball out quickly. If those traits are true, he will be an upgrade. And, of course, let's see what Milner and Johnson bring to the table.

I agree. Plummer's tapes show him to have a good, accurate arm and makes quick decisions. He's got good enough mobility to get the 1st into an open field. He's going to be a good fit for Musgrave - a system better suited to his game than at Purdue.

4

Rushinbear

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In reply to 82gradDLSdad • 10:42a, 1/13/22

82gradDLSdad said:
HearstMining said:
82gradDLSdad said:
71Bear said:
concernedparent said:
71Bear said:
kal kommie said:
71Bear said:
bearsandgiants said:
Provided he stays healthy, I think he'll be as good if not better than having Garbers for another year. We should most definitely make a bowl. Should be a fun season and a chance to get things back on track.
Why the enthusiasm over a guy who was a second unit QB on good but not great team?

I see him as a solid back-up guy who won't embarrass you if the #1 is sidelined.

Johnson/Millner are the guys who should be vying for the starting role.
Plummer was #2 behind one of the better QBs in the country; vs OSU, MSU and Iowa, McConnell threw for 1301 yards, 9 TDs and 0 INTs. It's not a mark of mediocrity to be #2 behind a really good player.

In his 6 full starts the last two seasons (vs Minn, Rutgers, Nebraska, Oregon St, Connecticut and Notre Dame), Plummer threw for 1683 yards (71.5% comp), 15 TDs and 2 INTs. Plummer is the best passer we've had since Webb. He makes fast, decisive reads, has a quick release and is very accurate. I'd be shocked and very impressed if either Johnson or Millner could beat him out.

I think Plummer will prove to be a better suited QB for Musgrave than Garbers, and I say that while dissenting from those who wanted to see us move on from Chase as our starting QB. We're lucky to have such a soft landing after losing a 4-year starter QB.

Webb was a classic "pile up the yards between the 20's and flop when he gets in the red zone" QB. He was mediocre at best…..

I hope whoever our QB is can flop their way to 43 TDs.
And I would hope that whoever Wilcox selects as the #1 QB can lead Cal to winning record (something Webb was unable to do because of his penchant to screw up at the most inopportune time).

Yah, it was just Webb.
No point in dumping on Webb as his shortcomings were consistent with the Dykes era. Under both Goff and Webb, Cal QB play came up short against the tough teams.

I don't know anything about Plummer, but I'm gonna pull for Millner/Johnson in this contest. I realize the transfer portal has changed the equation, but if Cal gets a reputation for transfer QBs parachuting in to become starters, it will be even tougher to attract top HS QBs. My main hope is that one of the three is a clear winner and that the entire Musgrave offense is installed by the first game.

I wouldn't have any problem with Cal being the place where experienced, undervalued QBs transferred in to shine. I don't need to build up any 'rooting' momentum for some freshman/sophomore while they adjust to the speed of D1 football. I wonder though if Musgrave can alter his system to get transfer QBs up to speed in a few months?

The pitch becomes, "Here's what a guy can do who came in in the middle of his career. What do you think you'll be able to do when we can soak it up from Day One?"

2

Oski87

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In reply to BearGoggles • 11:05a, 1/13/22

BearGoggles said:
71Bear said:
kal kommie said:
71Bear said:
bearsandgiants said:
Provided he stays healthy, I think he'll be as good if not better than having Garbers for another year. We should most definitely make a bowl. Should be a fun season and a chance to get things back on track.
Why the enthusiasm over a guy who was a second unit QB on good but not great team?

I see him as a solid back-up guy who won't embarrass you if the #1 is sidelined.

Johnson/Millner are the guys who should be vying for the starting role.
Plummer was #2 behind one of the better QBs in the country; vs OSU, MSU and Iowa, McConnell threw for 1301 yards, 9 TDs and 0 INTs. It's not a mark of mediocrity to be #2 behind a really good player.

In his 6 full starts the last two seasons (vs Minn, Rutgers, Nebraska, Oregon St, Connecticut and Notre Dame), Plummer threw for 1683 yards (71.5% comp), 15 TDs and 2 INTs. Plummer is the best passer we've had since Webb. He makes fast, decisive reads, has a quick release and is very accurate. I'd be shocked and very impressed if either Johnson or Millner could beat him out.

I think Plummer will prove to be a better suited QB for Musgrave than Garbers, and I say that while dissenting from those who wanted to see us move on from Chase as our starting QB. We're lucky to have such a soft landing after losing a 4-year starter QB.
Webb?? I hope he is better than that whether he is the #1 or #2.

Webb was a classic "pile up the yards between the 20's and flop when he gets in the red zone" QB. He was mediocre at best…..

Expectations should be much higher.

Cal hasn't had a consistent, winning QB since Rodgers………

Note: I have not seen Plummer play. The Purdue games I watched were played after he was benched.
So you haven't seen Plummer play, but you're willing to say "I see him as a solid back-up guy who won't embarrass you if the #1 is sidelined."

Interesting standard for making an assessment.

Joe Burrow transferred because he couldn't beat out JT Barrett and Dwayne Haskins.

Baker Mayfield left Texas Tech because he was beat out by the aforementioned Davis Webb.

Plummer is likely not as good as those guys. But to draw such a negative inference from a player being beat out - a player who you admittedly have never seen play - is a real reach.

Plummer is reportedly an accurate passer who gets the ball out quickly. If those traits are true, he will be an upgrade. And, of course, let's see what Milner and Johnson bring to the table.

I think it is really funny that 71 thinks the #1pick / QB drafted in 2015 was not a good GB, even through he brought his NFL team to a SB, and that the only QB standard we should have is a first round draft pick who is a sure-fire first round hall of fame entrant. I guess almost no team has a decent QB, or a QB up to his standards.

11

71Bear

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In reply to Oski87 • 12:03a, 1/17/22

Oski87 said:
BearGoggles said:
71Bear said:
kal kommie said:
71Bear said:
bearsandgiants said:
Provided he stays healthy, I think he'll be as good if not better than having Garbers for another year. We should most definitely make a bowl. Should be a fun season and a chance to get things back on track.
Why the enthusiasm over a guy who was a second unit QB on good but not great team?

I see him as a solid back-up guy who won't embarrass you if the #1 is sidelined.

Johnson/Millner are the guys who should be vying for the starting role.
Plummer was #2 behind one of the better QBs in the country; vs OSU, MSU and Iowa, McConnell threw for 1301 yards, 9 TDs and 0 INTs. It's not a mark of mediocrity to be #2 behind a really good player.

In his 6 full starts the last two seasons (vs Minn, Rutgers, Nebraska, Oregon St, Connecticut and Notre Dame), Plummer threw for 1683 yards (71.5% comp), 15 TDs and 2 INTs. Plummer is the best passer we've had since Webb. He makes fast, decisive reads, has a quick release and is very accurate. I'd be shocked and very impressed if either Johnson or Millner could beat him out.

I think Plummer will prove to be a better suited QB for Musgrave than Garbers, and I say that while dissenting from those who wanted to see us move on from Chase as our starting QB. We're lucky to have such a soft landing after losing a 4-year starter QB.
Webb?? I hope he is better than that whether he is the #1 or #2.

Webb was a classic "pile up the yards between the 20's and flop when he gets in the red zone" QB. He was mediocre at best…..

Expectations should be much higher.

Cal hasn't had a consistent, winning QB since Rodgers………

Note: I have not seen Plummer play. The Purdue games I watched were played after he was benched.
So you haven't seen Plummer play, but you're willing to say "I see him as a solid back-up guy who won't embarrass you if the #1 is sidelined."

Interesting standard for making an assessment.

Joe Burrow transferred because he couldn't beat out JT Barrett and Dwayne Haskins.

Baker Mayfield left Texas Tech because he was beat out by the aforementioned Davis Webb.

Plummer is likely not as good as those guys. But to draw such a negative inference from a player being beat out - a player who you admittedly have never seen play - is a real reach.

Plummer is reportedly an accurate passer who gets the ball out quickly. If those traits are true, he will be an upgrade. And, of course, let's see what Milner and Johnson bring to the table.
I think it is really funny that 71 thinks the #1pick / QB drafted in 2015 was not a good GB, even through he brought his NFL team to a SB, and that the only QB standard we should have is a first round draft pick who is a sure-fire first round hall of fame entrant. I guess almost no team has a decent QB, or a QB up to his standards.

Please enlighten me further regarding Winston's Super Bowl appearance. I can't seem to find any record of such an occurrence…

1

HighlandDutch

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In reply to 71Bear • 1:41p, 1/17/22

71Bear said:
Oski87 said:
BearGoggles said:
71Bear said:
kal kommie said:
71Bear said:
bearsandgiants said:
Provided he stays healthy, I think he'll be as good if not better than having Garbers for another year. We should most definitely make a bowl. Should be a fun season and a chance to get things back on track.
Why the enthusiasm over a guy who was a second unit QB on good but not great team?

I see him as a solid back-up guy who won't embarrass you if the #1 is sidelined.

Johnson/Millner are the guys who should be vying for the starting role.
Plummer was #2 behind one of the better QBs in the country; vs OSU, MSU and Iowa, McConnell threw for 1301 yards, 9 TDs and 0 INTs. It's not a mark of mediocrity to be #2 behind a really good player.

In his 6 full starts the last two seasons (vs Minn, Rutgers, Nebraska, Oregon St, Connecticut and Notre Dame), Plummer threw for 1683 yards (71.5% comp), 15 TDs and 2 INTs. Plummer is the best passer we've had since Webb. He makes fast, decisive reads, has a quick release and is very accurate. I'd be shocked and very impressed if either Johnson or Millner could beat him out.

I think Plummer will prove to be a better suited QB for Musgrave than Garbers, and I say that while dissenting from those who wanted to see us move on from Chase as our starting QB. We're lucky to have such a soft landing after losing a 4-year starter QB.
Webb?? I hope he is better than that whether he is the #1 or #2.

Webb was a classic "pile up the yards between the 20's and flop when he gets in the red zone" QB. He was mediocre at best…..

Expectations should be much higher.

Cal hasn't had a consistent, winning QB since Rodgers………

Note: I have not seen Plummer play. The Purdue games I watched were played after he was benched.
So you haven't seen Plummer play, but you're willing to say "I see him as a solid back-up guy who won't embarrass you if the #1 is sidelined."

Interesting standard for making an assessment.

Joe Burrow transferred because he couldn't beat out JT Barrett and Dwayne Haskins.

Baker Mayfield left Texas Tech because he was beat out by the aforementioned Davis Webb.

Plummer is likely not as good as those guys. But to draw such a negative inference from a player being beat out - a player who you admittedly have never seen play - is a real reach.

Plummer is reportedly an accurate passer who gets the ball out quickly. If those traits are true, he will be an upgrade. And, of course, let's see what Milner and Johnson bring to the table.
I think it is really funny that 71 thinks the #1pick / QB drafted in 2015 was not a good GB, even through he brought his NFL team to a SB, and that the only QB standard we should have is a first round draft pick who is a sure-fire first round hall of fame entrant. I guess almost no team has a decent QB, or a QB up to his standards.
Please enlighten me further regarding Winston's Super Bowl appearance. I can't seem to find any record of such an occurrence…

[deleted]

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Big C

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1:54p, 1/17/22

In general, I don't think Goff gets quite the appreciation that he deserves from many folks here, with 71Bear just being the most egregious example. He was an outstanding Cal quarterback and owns most of our passing records. First pick in the NFL draft, played in multiple Pro Bowls and a Super Bowl and is currently an NFL starter. He is also a Golden Bear through and through. What's not to love? (I do recognize that most Cal fans do love Jared Goff.)

Imagine if Goff (even at his college sophomore level of play) were on our roster for next season, how many games we would win!

15

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TilWeWobble

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4:16p, 1/17/22

Could not agree more with Big C; Goff merits respect and full on support from Cal alums and fans. I root for everyone team he is on (even the Rams when he was there).

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calumnus

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In reply to TilWeWobble • 4:47p, 1/17/22

TilWeWobble said:
Could not agree more with Big C; Goff merits respect and full on support from Cal alums and fans. I root for everyone team he is on (even the Rams when he was there).

I'm from LA. I was a Rams fan until they moved to OC. When they returned to LA and drafted Goff #1 they became far and away my favorite team, though I was apprehensive thinking Goff was drafted too high knowing the scrutiny and pressure would be intense . I was relieved when he was successful, dissapointed they did not win the Super Bowl.

Now I root against them.

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southseasbear

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In reply to calumnus • 7:31p, 1/17/22

calumnus said:
TilWeWobble said:
Could not agree more with Big C; Goff merits respect and full on support from Cal alums and fans. I root for everyone team he is on (even the Rams when he was there).

I'm from LA. I was a Rams fan until they moved to OC. When they returned to LA and drafted Goff #1 they became far and away my favorite team, though I was apprehensive thinking Goff was drafted too high knowing the scrutiny and pressure would be intense . I was relieved when he was successful, dissapointed they did not win the Super Bowl.

Now I root against them.

Ditto!

Fire Knowlton!
Fire Fox!
Put Wilcox in a hot seat!

3

GivemTheAxe

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In reply to 82gradDLSdad • 9:13p, 1/17/22

82gradDLSdad said:
HearstMining said:
82gradDLSdad said:
71Bear said:
concernedparent said:
71Bear said:
kal kommie said:
71Bear said:
bearsandgiants said:
Provided he stays healthy, I think he'll be as good if not better than having Garbers for another year. We should most definitely make a bowl. Should be a fun season and a chance to get things back on track.
Why the enthusiasm over a guy who was a second unit QB on good but not great team?

I see him as a solid back-up guy who won't embarrass you if the #1 is sidelined.

Johnson/Millner are the guys who should be vying for the starting role.
Plummer was #2 behind one of the better QBs in the country; vs OSU, MSU and Iowa, McConnell threw for 1301 yards, 9 TDs and 0 INTs. It's not a mark of mediocrity to be #2 behind a really good player.

In his 6 full starts the last two seasons (vs Minn, Rutgers, Nebraska, Oregon St, Connecticut and Notre Dame), Plummer threw for 1683 yards (71.5% comp), 15 TDs and 2 INTs. Plummer is the best passer we've had since Webb. He makes fast, decisive reads, has a quick release and is very accurate. I'd be shocked and very impressed if either Johnson or Millner could beat him out.

I think Plummer will prove to be a better suited QB for Musgrave than Garbers, and I say that while dissenting from those who wanted to see us move on from Chase as our starting QB. We're lucky to have such a soft landing after losing a 4-year starter QB.

Webb was a classic "pile up the yards between the 20's and flop when he gets in the red zone" QB. He was mediocre at best…..

I hope whoever our QB is can flop their way to 43 TDs.
And I would hope that whoever Wilcox selects as the #1 QB can lead Cal to winning record (something Webb was unable to do because of his penchant to screw up at the most inopportune time).

Yah, it was just Webb.
No point in dumping on Webb as his shortcomings were consistent with the Dykes era. Under both Goff and Webb, Cal QB play came up short against the tough teams.

I don't know anything about Plummer, but I'm gonna pull for Millner/Johnson in this contest. I realize the transfer portal has changed the equation, but if Cal gets a reputation for transfer QBs parachuting in to become starters, it will be even tougher to attract top HS QBs. My main hope is that one of the three is a clear winner and that the entire Musgrave offense is installed by the first game.

I wouldn't have any problem with Cal being the place where experienced, undervalued QBs transferred in to shine. I don't need to build up any 'rooting' momentum for some freshman/sophomore while they adjust to the speed of D1 football. I wonder though if Musgrave can alter his system to get transfer QBs up to speed in a few months?

Agree

I would prefer to see a QB come in as a Freshman and play 4 years of successful FB. But that is not going to happen; if the WB is successful he will leave after playing no more than 3 years as a starter (barring years like 2020.

If he is not successful he will be replaced.

Also if a QB comes in after JC, he will have no more than 2 years as a starting WB.

So I have no problem with picking up a QB from the transfer portal especially if that QB would have two years of eligibility remaining.

I believe Plummer has 2 years of eligibility remaining

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In reply to calbear80 • 7:43a, 1/19/22

calbear80 said:
calbear80 said:
One more piece of history. QB Jake Plummer (who took ASU to the Rose Bowl and played in the NFL) was going to come to Cal until Coach Bruce Snyder bolted for ASU (on January 1, 1992, right after the Citrus Bowl victory, remember it well) and took Jake Plummer with him. Big loss. Damn that AD who screwed things up with Coach Snyder. Our current AD Knowlton may have his shortcomings, but, thank God, somehow he managed to keep Coach Wilcox.

Go Bears!

Because I had this "discussion" with someone on another site (he didn't believe that Snyder had a great incoming class which we know just isn't true): Plummer was one year away from following Snyder, not in the immediate class after the wonderful Citrus Bowl win. He did go and follow Snyder (to ASU) the following year, so your point is still the right one.

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In reply to Big C • 1:41p, 1/19/22

Big C said:

In general, I don't think Goff gets quite the appreciation that he deserves from many folks here, with 71Bear just being the most egregious example. He was an outstanding Cal quarterback and owns most of our passing records. First pick in the NFL draft, played in multiple Pro Bowls and a Super Bowl and is currently an NFL starter. He is also a Golden Bear through and through. What's not to love? (I do recognize that most Cal fans do love Jared Goff.)

Imagine if Goff (even at his college sophomore level of play) were on our roster for next season, how many games we would win!

I think we really underrate the recent QB play. We had so many years in the QB wilderness post-Longshore injury. Riley was average, Maynard and Bowers below that. Goff, Webb, sophomore and senior year Garbers were anywhere from elite to above average p5 QBs. The rest were disasters

1 edit

calumnus

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In reply to concernedparent • 4:33p, 1/19/22

concernedparent said:
Big C said:

In general, I don't think Goff gets quite the appreciation that he deserves from many folks here, with 71Bear just being the most egregious example. He was an outstanding Cal quarterback and owns most of our passing records. First pick in the NFL draft, played in multiple Pro Bowls and a Super Bowl and is currently an NFL starter. He is also a Golden Bear through and through. What's not to love? (I do recognize that most Cal fans do love Jared Goff.)

Imagine if Goff (even at his college sophomore level of play) were on our roster for next season, how many games we would win!
I think we really underrate the recent QB play. We had so many years in the QB wilderness post-Longshore injury. Riley was average, Maynard and Bowers below that. Goff, Webb, sophomore and senior year Garbers were anywhere from elite to above average p5 QBs. The rest were disasters

Cal QB Career Passing Ratings (min 100 attempts)
1. Rodgers 150.3
2. Goff 144.0
3. Barr 140.9
4. Webb 135.6
5. Robertson 135.5
6. Barnes 134.9
7. Campbell 132.7
8. Pawlawski 132.4'
9. Garbers 132.3
10. Longshore 131.8
11. Riley 131.6
12. Maynard 128.4
13. Grauman 126.3
14. Taylor 124.1
15. Morton 123.2
16. Young 122.9
17. Bowers 120.4
18. Roth 116.6
19. Vedder 116.3
20. Ayoob 114.1
21. Gilbert 112.7
22. Bartkowski 112.7
23. Besana 110.4
24. Penhall 108.8
25. Boller 108.2
26. Balliett 108.1
27. Brown 104.8
28. McIlwain 104.4
29. Modster 103.8
30. Ferragamo 102.9
31. Cruze 101.9
32. Kapp 95.2
33. Torchio 84.3
34. Humphries 91.7
35. Bedford 85.5
36. Mansion 85.3
37. Bronk 84.9
38. McGonigal 84.3
39. Bridgford 80.0

People tend to attribute wins to good QB play and losses to bad QB play, but there are 21+ other positions. People undervalue Barr, Garbers, Goff and Webb because their teams did not win much, or they played for coaches with losing records or just ones we didn't like.. Maynard was essentially the same as Longshore and Riley as a passer but was a better runner (OTOH Riley's stats suffered from not having as good of receivers as Longshore and Maynard).

Garbers was better than Longshore and just behind Pawlawski overall as a passer, but is also the Cal QB career rushing leader with 1,174 yards and 11 rushing TDs.

4

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concernedparent

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In reply to calumnus • 5:35p, 1/19/22

calumnus said:
concernedparent said:
Big C said:

In general, I don't think Goff gets quite the appreciation that he deserves from many folks here, with 71Bear just being the most egregious example. He was an outstanding Cal quarterback and owns most of our passing records. First pick in the NFL draft, played in multiple Pro Bowls and a Super Bowl and is currently an NFL starter. He is also a Golden Bear through and through. What's not to love? (I do recognize that most Cal fans do love Jared Goff.)

Imagine if Goff (even at his college sophomore level of play) were on our roster for next season, how many games we would win!
I think we really underrate the recent QB play. We had so many years in the QB wilderness post-Longshore injury. Riley was average, Maynard and Bowers below that. Goff, Webb, sophomore and senior year Garbers were anywhere from elite to above average p5 QBs. The rest were disasters

Maynard was essentially the same as Longshore and Riley as a passer but was a better runner (OTOH Riley's stats suffered from not having as good of receivers as Longshore and Maynard).

Despite the stats, it's why I have Maynard lower than Riley. He was the bottleneck. Those 2011 and 2012 teams had so much NFL talent around Maynard. Keenan Allen, Marvin Jones, then all those guys that played with Goff who were pretty good even as freshmen (Harper, Treggs, Powe, Maurice Harris) at WR. Richard Rodgers at TE. CJ Anderson at tailback. Schwartz and Schwenke at OL.

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In reply to calumnus • 5:43p, 1/19/22

calumnus said:
concernedparent said:
Big C said:

In general, I don't think Goff gets quite the appreciation that he deserves from many folks here, with 71Bear just being the most egregious example. He was an outstanding Cal quarterback and owns most of our passing records. First pick in the NFL draft, played in multiple Pro Bowls and a Super Bowl and is currently an NFL starter. He is also a Golden Bear through and through. What's not to love? (I do recognize that most Cal fans do love Jared Goff.)

Imagine if Goff (even at his college sophomore level of play) were on our roster for next season, how many games we would win!
I think we really underrate the recent QB play. We had so many years in the QB wilderness post-Longshore injury. Riley was average, Maynard and Bowers below that. Goff, Webb, sophomore and senior year Garbers were anywhere from elite to above average p5 QBs. The rest were disasters

Cal QB Career Passing Ratings (min 100 attempts)
1. Rodgers 150.3
2. Goff 144.0
3. Barr 140.9
4. Webb 135.6
5. Robertson 135.5
6. Barnes 134.9
7. Campbell 132.7
8. Pawlawski 132.4'
9. Garbers 132.3
10. Longshore 131.8
11. Riley 131.6
12. Maynard 128.4
13. Grauman 126.3
14. Taylor 124.1
15. Morton 123.2
16. Young 122.9
17. Bowers 120.4
18. Roth 116.6
19. Vedder 116.3
20. Ayoob 114.1
21. Gilbert 112.7
22. Bartkowski 112.7
23. Besana 110.4
24. Penhall 108.8
25. Boller 108.2
26. Balliett 108.1
27. Brown 104.8
28. McIlwain 104.4
29. Modster 103.8
30. Ferragamo 102.9
31. Cruze 101.9
32. Kapp 95.2
33. Torchio 84.3
34. Humphries 91.7
35. Bedford 85.5
36. Mansion 85.3
37. Bronk 84.9
38. McGonigal 84.3
39. Bridgford 80.0

People tend to attribute wins to good QB play and losses to bad QB play, but there are 21+ other positions. People undervalue Barr, Garbers, Goff and Webb because their teams did not win much, or they played for coaches with losing records or just ones we didn't like.. Maynard was essentially the same as Longshore and Riley as a passer but was a better runner (OTOH Riley's stats suffered from not having as good of receivers as Longshore and Maynard).

Garbers was better than Longshore and just behind Pawlawski overall as a passer, but is also the Cal QB career rushing leader with 1,174 yards and 11 rushing TDs.

Quarterbacking isn't just about passing ratings. Quarterbacking is about numbers AND leadership, toughness, producing when the pressure is greatest, etc.

That is why a guy like Montana is always mentioned as one of the very best to ever play QB and Marino is just a statmaster with no rings.

Here are the true rankings from the group noted above:

1. Roth
2. Rodgers
3. Morton
4. Pawlawski
5. Kapp

2

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Oakbear

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7:35p, 1/19/22

If you average plummets ratings for his three years, he is high on that list...I hope Plummer doesn't plummet. Lol

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concernedparent

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In reply to 71Bear • 10:20p, 1/19/22

71Bear said:
calumnus said:
concernedparent said:
Big C said:

In general, I don't think Goff gets quite the appreciation that he deserves from many folks here, with 71Bear just being the most egregious example. He was an outstanding Cal quarterback and owns most of our passing records. First pick in the NFL draft, played in multiple Pro Bowls and a Super Bowl and is currently an NFL starter. He is also a Golden Bear through and through. What's not to love? (I do recognize that most Cal fans do love Jared Goff.)

Imagine if Goff (even at his college sophomore level of play) were on our roster for next season, how many games we would win!
I think we really underrate the recent QB play. We had so many years in the QB wilderness post-Longshore injury. Riley was average, Maynard and Bowers below that. Goff, Webb, sophomore and senior year Garbers were anywhere from elite to above average p5 QBs. The rest were disasters

Cal QB Career Passing Ratings (min 100 attempts)
1. Rodgers 150.3
2. Goff 144.0
3. Barr 140.9
4. Webb 135.6
5. Robertson 135.5
6. Barnes 134.9
7. Campbell 132.7
8. Pawlawski 132.4'
9. Garbers 132.3
10. Longshore 131.8
11. Riley 131.6
12. Maynard 128.4
13. Grauman 126.3
14. Taylor 124.1
15. Morton 123.2
16. Young 122.9
17. Bowers 120.4
18. Roth 116.6
19. Vedder 116.3
20. Ayoob 114.1
21. Gilbert 112.7
22. Bartkowski 112.7
23. Besana 110.4
24. Penhall 108.8
25. Boller 108.2
26. Balliett 108.1
27. Brown 104.8
28. McIlwain 104.4
29. Modster 103.8
30. Ferragamo 102.9
31. Cruze 101.9
32. Kapp 95.2
33. Torchio 84.3
34. Humphries 91.7
35. Bedford 85.5
36. Mansion 85.3
37. Bronk 84.9
38. McGonigal 84.3
39. Bridgford 80.0

People tend to attribute wins to good QB play and losses to bad QB play, but there are 21+ other positions. People undervalue Barr, Garbers, Goff and Webb because their teams did not win much, or they played for coaches with losing records or just ones we didn't like.. Maynard was essentially the same as Longshore and Riley as a passer but was a better runner (OTOH Riley's stats suffered from not having as good of receivers as Longshore and Maynard).

Garbers was better than Longshore and just behind Pawlawski overall as a passer, but is also the Cal QB career rushing leader with 1,174 yards and 11 rushing TDs.
Quarterbacking isn't just about passing ratings. Quarterbacking is about numbers AND leadership, toughness, producing when the pressure is greatest, etc.

That is why a guy like Montana is always mentioned as one of the very best to ever play QB and Marino is just a statmaster with no rings.

Dan Marino is also considered as one of the very best to ever play QB. What the hell are you talking about? He wasn't as good as Montana but he's in basically everyone's top 10 QBs ever, and probably closer to 5 than to 10.

5

calumnus

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In reply to concernedparent • 10:39p, 1/19/22

concernedparent said:
71Bear said:
calumnus said:
concernedparent said:
Big C said:

In general, I don't think Goff gets quite the appreciation that he deserves from many folks here, with 71Bear just being the most egregious example. He was an outstanding Cal quarterback and owns most of our passing records. First pick in the NFL draft, played in multiple Pro Bowls and a Super Bowl and is currently an NFL starter. He is also a Golden Bear through and through. What's not to love? (I do recognize that most Cal fans do love Jared Goff.)

Imagine if Goff (even at his college sophomore level of play) were on our roster for next season, how many games we would win!
I think we really underrate the recent QB play. We had so many years in the QB wilderness post-Longshore injury. Riley was average, Maynard and Bowers below that. Goff, Webb, sophomore and senior year Garbers were anywhere from elite to above average p5 QBs. The rest were disasters

Cal QB Career Passing Ratings (min 100 attempts)
1. Rodgers 150.3
2. Goff 144.0
3. Barr 140.9
4. Webb 135.6
5. Robertson 135.5
6. Barnes 134.9
7. Campbell 132.7
8. Pawlawski 132.4'
9. Garbers 132.3
10. Longshore 131.8
11. Riley 131.6
12. Maynard 128.4
13. Grauman 126.3
14. Taylor 124.1
15. Morton 123.2
16. Young 122.9
17. Bowers 120.4
18. Roth 116.6
19. Vedder 116.3
20. Ayoob 114.1
21. Gilbert 112.7
22. Bartkowski 112.7
23. Besana 110.4
24. Penhall 108.8
25. Boller 108.2
26. Balliett 108.1
27. Brown 104.8
28. McIlwain 104.4
29. Modster 103.8
30. Ferragamo 102.9
31. Cruze 101.9
32. Kapp 95.2
33. Torchio 84.3
34. Humphries 91.7
35. Bedford 85.5
36. Mansion 85.3
37. Bronk 84.9
38. McGonigal 84.3
39. Bridgford 80.0

People tend to attribute wins to good QB play and losses to bad QB play, but there are 21+ other positions. People undervalue Barr, Garbers, Goff and Webb because their teams did not win much, or they played for coaches with losing records or just ones we didn't like.. Maynard was essentially the same as Longshore and Riley as a passer but was a better runner (OTOH Riley's stats suffered from not having as good of receivers as Longshore and Maynard).

Garbers was better than Longshore and just behind Pawlawski overall as a passer, but is also the Cal QB career rushing leader with 1,174 yards and 11 rushing TDs.
Quarterbacking isn't just about passing ratings. Quarterbacking is about numbers AND leadership, toughness, producing when the pressure is greatest, etc.

That is why a guy like Montana is always mentioned as one of the very best to ever play QB and Marino is just a statmaster with no rings.

Dan Marino is also considered as one of the very best to ever play QB. What the hell are you talking about? He wasn't as good as Montana but he's in basically everyone's top 10 QBs ever, and probably closer to 5 than to 10.

Montana was a great QB who also played for a great coach, in an innovative offensive system, who was smart enough to use his first draft to load up on DBs and build a good defense. Then found the best WR of all time at Mississippi Valley State.

For QBs that finished their career in the last Century, the top rated QBs are 1) Steve Young, 2) Joe Montana 3) Otto Graham 4) Dan Marino 5) Jim Kelly 6) Roger Staubacch

Guys that are considered "great" QBs play on great teams that win. Terry Bradshaw is #159 in career passing ratings. He was fortunate to be the QB on one of the best defensive teams, winning 4 Super Bowls. Statistically he is Trent Dilfer or Kyle Boller. QBs get too much credit and too much blame.

2

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HearstMining

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In reply to calumnus • 8:48a, 1/20/22

calumnus said:
concernedparent said:
Big C said:

In general, I don't think Goff gets quite the appreciation that he deserves from many folks here, with 71Bear just being the most egregious example. He was an outstanding Cal quarterback and owns most of our passing records. First pick in the NFL draft, played in multiple Pro Bowls and a Super Bowl and is currently an NFL starter. He is also a Golden Bear through and through. What's not to love? (I do recognize that most Cal fans do love Jared Goff.)

Imagine if Goff (even at his college sophomore level of play) were on our roster for next season, how many games we would win!
I think we really underrate the recent QB play. We had so many years in the QB wilderness post-Longshore injury. Riley was average, Maynard and Bowers below that. Goff, Webb, sophomore and senior year Garbers were anywhere from elite to above average p5 QBs. The rest were disasters

Cal QB Career Passing Ratings (min 100 attempts)
1. Rodgers 150.3
2. Goff 144.0
3. Barr 140.9
4. Webb 135.6
5. Robertson 135.5
6. Barnes 134.9
7. Campbell 132.7
8. Pawlawski 132.4'
9. Garbers 132.3
10. Longshore 131.8
11. Riley 131.6
12. Maynard 128.4
13. Grauman 126.3
14. Taylor 124.1
15. Morton 123.2
16. Young 122.9
17. Bowers 120.4
18. Roth 116.6
19. Vedder 116.3
20. Ayoob 114.1
21. Gilbert 112.7
22. Bartkowski 112.7
23. Besana 110.4
24. Penhall 108.8
25. Boller 108.2
26. Balliett 108.1
27. Brown 104.8
28. McIlwain 104.4
29. Modster 103.8
30. Ferragamo 102.9
31. Cruze 101.9
32. Kapp 95.2
33. Torchio 84.3
34. Humphries 91.7
35. Bedford 85.5
36. Mansion 85.3
37. Bronk 84.9
38. McGonigal 84.3
39. Bridgford 80.0

People tend to attribute wins to good QB play and losses to bad QB play, but there are 21+ other positions. People undervalue Barr, Garbers, Goff and Webb because their teams did not win much, or they played for coaches with losing records or just ones we didn't like.. Maynard was essentially the same as Longshore and Riley as a passer but was a better runner (OTOH Riley's stats suffered from not having as good of receivers as Longshore and Maynard).

Garbers was better than Longshore and just behind Pawlawski overall as a passer, but is also the Cal QB career rushing leader with 1,174 yards and 11 rushing TDs.

Since college QBs improve, sometimes dramatically, over their careers, it would be interesting to see the passer ratings for just their final year. I think this would more accurately correlate with the "eye-test" because frankly, there is no way that Gary Grauman is ten places better than Steve Bartkowski. One exception would be Roth, who of course was fighting melanoma his final year. However, I have a long list of to-dos for the day, so will leave the work to any other BI member who steps up.

As far as S71's comment about the need to include toughness and playing well in important games, I'd argue (colored by my then 16-year-old perspective) Dave Penhall should move way up the list. Against two heavily favored Stanford teams, he engineered a one-point loss in 1969 and a victory in Plunkett's Heisman year.

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In reply to HearstMining • 11:09a, 1/20/22

Staff

Penhall had stats that made Maynard look like a Heisman hopeful

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In reply to calumnus • 4:28p, 1/20/22

calumnus said:
concernedparent said:
Big C said:

In general, I don't think Goff gets quite the appreciation that he deserves from many folks here, with 71Bear just being the most egregious example. He was an outstanding Cal quarterback and owns most of our passing records. First pick in the NFL draft, played in multiple Pro Bowls and a Super Bowl and is currently an NFL starter. He is also a Golden Bear through and through. What's not to love? (I do recognize that most Cal fans do love Jared Goff.)

Imagine if Goff (even at his college sophomore level of play) were on our roster for next season, how many games we would win!
I think we really underrate the recent QB play. We had so many years in the QB wilderness post-Longshore injury. Riley was average, Maynard and Bowers below that. Goff, Webb, sophomore and senior year Garbers were anywhere from elite to above average p5 QBs. The rest were disasters

Cal QB Career Passing Ratings (min 100 attempts)
1. Rodgers 150.3
2. Goff 144.0
3. Barr 140.9
4. Webb 135.6
5. Robertson 135.5
6. Barnes 134.9
7. Campbell 132.7
8. Pawlawski 132.4'
9. Garbers 132.3
10. Longshore 131.8
11. Riley 131.6
12. Maynard 128.4
13. Grauman 126.3
14. Taylor 124.1
15. Morton 123.2
16. Young 122.9
17. Bowers 120.4
18. Roth 116.6
19. Vedder 116.3
20. Ayoob 114.1
21. Gilbert 112.7
22. Bartkowski 112.7
23. Besana 110.4
24. Penhall 108.8
25. Boller 108.2
26. Balliett 108.1
27. Brown 104.8
28. McIlwain 104.4
29. Modster 103.8
30. Ferragamo 102.9
31. Cruze 101.9
32. Kapp 95.2
33. Torchio 84.3
34. Humphries 91.7
35. Bedford 85.5
36. Mansion 85.3
37. Bronk 84.9
38. McGonigal 84.3
39. Bridgford 80.0

People tend to attribute wins to good QB play and losses to bad QB play, but there are 21+ other positions. People undervalue Barr, Garbers, Goff and Webb because their teams did not win much, or they played for coaches with losing records or just ones we didn't like.. Maynard was essentially the same as Longshore and Riley as a passer but was a better runner (OTOH Riley's stats suffered from not having as good of receivers as Longshore and Maynard).

Garbers was better than Longshore and just behind Pawlawski overall as a passer, but is also the Cal QB career rushing leader with 1,174 yards and 11 rushing TDs.

I have some serious problems with a QB passer rating system that has Joe Ayoob rated ahead of Steve Bartkowski and several other much better Cal passers.

SFCityBear

6

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5:36p, 1/20/22

NO kidding.

calumnus

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In reply to HearstMining • 6:03p, 1/20/22

HearstMining said:
calumnus said:
concernedparent said:
Big C said:

In general, I don't think Goff gets quite the appreciation that he deserves from many folks here, with 71Bear just being the most egregious example. He was an outstanding Cal quarterback and owns most of our passing records. First pick in the NFL draft, played in multiple Pro Bowls and a Super Bowl and is currently an NFL starter. He is also a Golden Bear through and through. What's not to love? (I do recognize that most Cal fans do love Jared Goff.)

Imagine if Goff (even at his college sophomore level of play) were on our roster for next season, how many games we would win!
I think we really underrate the recent QB play. We had so many years in the QB wilderness post-Longshore injury. Riley was average, Maynard and Bowers below that. Goff, Webb, sophomore and senior year Garbers were anywhere from elite to above average p5 QBs. The rest were disasters

Cal QB Career Passing Ratings (min 100 attempts)
1. Rodgers 150.3
2. Goff 144.0
3. Barr 140.9
4. Webb 135.6
5. Robertson 135.5
6. Barnes 134.9
7. Campbell 132.7
8. Pawlawski 132.4'
9. Garbers 132.3
10. Longshore 131.8
11. Riley 131.6
12. Maynard 128.4
13. Grauman 126.3
14. Taylor 124.1
15. Morton 123.2
16. Young 122.9
17. Bowers 120.4
18. Roth 116.6
19. Vedder 116.3
20. Ayoob 114.1
21. Gilbert 112.7
22. Bartkowski 112.7
23. Besana 110.4
24. Penhall 108.8
25. Boller 108.2
26. Balliett 108.1
27. Brown 104.8
28. McIlwain 104.4
29. Modster 103.8
30. Ferragamo 102.9
31. Cruze 101.9
32. Kapp 95.2
33. Torchio 84.3
34. Humphries 91.7
35. Bedford 85.5
36. Mansion 85.3
37. Bronk 84.9
38. McGonigal 84.3
39. Bridgford 80.0

People tend to attribute wins to good QB play and losses to bad QB play, but there are 21+ other positions. People undervalue Barr, Garbers, Goff and Webb because their teams did not win much, or they played for coaches with losing records or just ones we didn't like.. Maynard was essentially the same as Longshore and Riley as a passer but was a better runner (OTOH Riley's stats suffered from not having as good of receivers as Longshore and Maynard).

Garbers was better than Longshore and just behind Pawlawski overall as a passer, but is also the Cal QB career rushing leader with 1,174 yards and 11 rushing TDs.
Since college QBs improve, sometimes dramatically, over their careers, it would be interesting to see the passer ratings for just their final year. I think this would more accurately correlate with the "eye-test" because frankly, there is no way that Gary Grauman is ten places better than Steve Bartkowski. One exception would be Roth, who of course was fighting melanoma his final year. However, I have a long list of to-dos for the day, so will leave the work to any other BI member who steps up.

As far as S71's comment about the need to include toughness and playing well in important games, I'd argue (colored by my then 16-year-old perspective) Dave Penhall should move way up the list. Against two heavily favored Stanford teams, he engineered a one-point loss in 1969 and a victory in Plunkett's Heisman year.

Top 20 final significant season at Cal:
1. Goff 161.2
2. Rodgers 154.3
3. Robertson 154.2
4. Barnes 150.1
5. Pawlawski 141.1
6. Riley 140.7
7. Roth* 139.9
8. Garbers 136.1
9. Webb 135.6
10. Barr 134.7
11. Campbell 132.2
12. Cruze 131.2
13. Bartkowski 130.6
14. Maynard 130.3
15. Boller 126.8
16. Morton 126.0
17. Longshore 125.8
18. Bowers 122.1
19. Taylor 121.5
20. Penhall 121.1

*Roth's first season since his second he was dying of cancer.

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SFCityBear

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In reply to Bobodeluxe • 9:40p, 1/20/22

Bobodeluxe said:
NO kidding.

Or Zach Maynard rated ahead of

Troy Taylor
Craig Morton
Joe Roth
Gale Gilbert
Steve Bartkowski
Fred Besana
Kyle Boller
Vince Ferragamo

SFCityBear

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calumnus

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In reply to SFCityBear • 10:51p, 1/20/22

SFCityBear said:
Bobodeluxe said:
NO kidding.
Or Zach Maynard rated ahead of

Troy Taylor
Craig Morton
Joe Roth
Gale Gilbert
Steve Bartkowski
Fred Besana
Kyle Boller
Vince Ferragamo

Why pick out Maynard?

Ferragamo 125 of 253 (49.4%) for 1,654 yards 11 TDs 20 Int
Maynard 411 of 701 (58.6%) for 5,204 yards 29 TDs 22 Int
Kapp 146 of 286 (51%) for 1,896 yards 7 TDs 28 int
Gilbert 548 of 984 (55.7%) for 6,566 yards 32 TDs 48 in
Bartkowski 313 of 629 (50.6%) for 4,434 yards 20 TDs 27 int

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Big C

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In reply to SFCityBear • 11:18p, 1/20/22

SFCityBear said:
Bobodeluxe said:
NO kidding.
Or Zach Maynard rated ahead of

Troy Taylor
Craig Morton
Joe Roth
Gale Gilbert
Steve Bartkowski
Fred Besana
Kyle Boller
Vince Ferragamo

Passing offenses have improved so much over the past 25-30 years... anybody playing recently has an advantage over the older players.

Probably too much research/homework to assign to Calumnus, but I'd like to see a metric that factored in how these QBs performed relative to other QBs that year.

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BearSD

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In reply to calumnus • 11:19p, 1/20/22

calumnus said:
SFCityBear said:
Bobodeluxe said:
NO kidding.
Or Zach Maynard rated ahead of

Troy Taylor
Craig Morton
Joe Roth
Gale Gilbert
Steve Bartkowski
Fred Besana
Kyle Boller
Vince Ferragamo

Why pick out Maynard?

Ferragamo 125 of 253 (49.4%) for 1,654 yards 11 TDs 20 Int
Maynard 411 of 701 (58.6%) for 5,204 yards 29 TDs 22 Int
Kapp 146 of 286 (51%) for 1,896 yards 7 TDs 28 int
Gilbert 548 of 984 (55.7%) for 6,566 yards 32 TDs 48 in
Bartkowski 313 of 629 (50.6%) for 4,434 yards 20 TDs 27 int

Maynard was not as good for our Bears as some of those QBs, but he was at least as good as Boller and a few others.

calumnus

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In reply to Big C • 2:27a, 1/21/22

Big C said:
SFCityBear said:
Bobodeluxe said:
NO kidding.
Or Zach Maynard rated ahead of

Troy Taylor
Craig Morton
Joe Roth
Gale Gilbert
Steve Bartkowski
Fred Besana
Kyle Boller
Vince Ferragamo

Passing offenses have improved so much over the past 25-30 years... anybody playing recently has an advantage over the older players.

Probably too much research/homework to assign to Calumnus, but I'd like to see a metric that factored in how these QBs performed relative to other QBs that year.

Longshore, Riley and Maynard played pretty much in succession for the same team for the same coach and put up nearly identical career numbers as passers, with the exception that Maynard also contributing positive yardage rushing.

The difference is Longshore was on winning teams surrounded by great talent like Marshawn Lynch, DeSean Jackson , Justin Forsett and Jahvid Best with great defenses. Maynard was on losing teams, with a bad defense his last year. People didn't want to blame Tedford so they blamed Maynard and invented a conspiracy theory that Hinder and Bridgford were great QBs, but Keenan Allen forced Tedford to start his brother instead.

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HearstMining

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In reply to calumnus • 8:55a, 1/21/22

calumnus said:
HearstMining said:
calumnus said:
concernedparent said:
Big C said:

In general, I don't think Goff gets quite the appreciation that he deserves from many folks here, with 71Bear just being the most egregious example. He was an outstanding Cal quarterback and owns most of our passing records. First pick in the NFL draft, played in multiple Pro Bowls and a Super Bowl and is currently an NFL starter. He is also a Golden Bear through and through. What's not to love? (I do recognize that most Cal fans do love Jared Goff.)

Imagine if Goff (even at his college sophomore level of play) were on our roster for next season, how many games we would win!
I think we really underrate the recent QB play. We had so many years in the QB wilderness post-Longshore injury. Riley was average, Maynard and Bowers below that. Goff, Webb, sophomore and senior year Garbers were anywhere from elite to above average p5 QBs. The rest were disasters

Cal QB Career Passing Ratings (min 100 attempts)
1. Rodgers 150.3
2. Goff 144.0
3. Barr 140.9
4. Webb 135.6
5. Robertson 135.5
6. Barnes 134.9
7. Campbell 132.7
8. Pawlawski 132.4'
9. Garbers 132.3
10. Longshore 131.8
11. Riley 131.6
12. Maynard 128.4
13. Grauman 126.3
14. Taylor 124.1
15. Morton 123.2
16. Young 122.9
17. Bowers 120.4
18. Roth 116.6
19. Vedder 116.3
20. Ayoob 114.1
21. Gilbert 112.7
22. Bartkowski 112.7
23. Besana 110.4
24. Penhall 108.8
25. Boller 108.2
26. Balliett 108.1
27. Brown 104.8
28. McIlwain 104.4
29. Modster 103.8
30. Ferragamo 102.9
31. Cruze 101.9
32. Kapp 95.2
33. Torchio 84.3
34. Humphries 91.7
35. Bedford 85.5
36. Mansion 85.3
37. Bronk 84.9
38. McGonigal 84.3
39. Bridgford 80.0

People tend to attribute wins to good QB play and losses to bad QB play, but there are 21+ other positions. People undervalue Barr, Garbers, Goff and Webb because their teams did not win much, or they played for coaches with losing records or just ones we didn't like.. Maynard was essentially the same as Longshore and Riley as a passer but was a better runner (OTOH Riley's stats suffered from not having as good of receivers as Longshore and Maynard).

Garbers was better than Longshore and just behind Pawlawski overall as a passer, but is also the Cal QB career rushing leader with 1,174 yards and 11 rushing TDs.
Since college QBs improve, sometimes dramatically, over their careers, it would be interesting to see the passer ratings for just their final year. I think this would more accurately correlate with the "eye-test" because frankly, there is no way that Gary Grauman is ten places better than Steve Bartkowski. One exception would be Roth, who of course was fighting melanoma his final year. However, I have a long list of to-dos for the day, so will leave the work to any other BI member who steps up.

As far as S71's comment about the need to include toughness and playing well in important games, I'd argue (colored by my then 16-year-old perspective) Dave Penhall should move way up the list. Against two heavily favored Stanford teams, he engineered a one-point loss in 1969 and a victory in Plunkett's Heisman year.

Top 20 final significant season at Cal:
1. Goff 161.2
2. Rodgers 154.3
3. Robertson 154.2
4. Barnes 150.1
5. Pawlawski 141.1
6. Riley 140.7
7. Roth* 139.9
8. Garbers 136.1
9. Webb 135.6
10. Barr 134.7
11. Campbell 132.2
12. Cruze 131.2
13. Bartkowski 130.6
14. Maynard 130.3
15. Boller 126
16. Morton 126.0
17. Longshore 125.8
18. Bowers 122.1
19. Taylor 121.5
20. Penhall 121.1

*Roth's first season since his second he was dying of cancer.

Thanks for this work, calumnus! This prompts the following thoughts:

I forgot how good Pat Barnes was for that one season under Mariucci - too bad the defense was so awful. I wonder why Barnes didn't stick in the NFL while Gale Gilbert hung on as 2nd or 3rd string QB on various teams for years.
As has already been said, it's hard to compare QBs from different eras. Changes in pass defense and offensive strategy have a big impact on these ratings. Goff vs Rodgers vs Roth vs Morton
I remember Jay Cruze - he was a good passer, but always carried an extra 10 lbs around the middle.
For holding as many Cal records as he did, even Troy Taylor's best season wasn't that great.

Anyway, thanks again!

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71Bear

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In reply to HearstMining • 9:21a, 1/21/22

HearstMining said:
calumnus said:
HearstMining said:
calumnus said:
concernedparent said:
Big C said:

In general, I don't think Goff gets quite the appreciation that he deserves from many folks here, with 71Bear just being the most egregious example. He was an outstanding Cal quarterback and owns most of our passing records. First pick in the NFL draft, played in multiple Pro Bowls and a Super Bowl and is currently an NFL starter. He is also a Golden Bear through and through. What's not to love? (I do recognize that most Cal fans do love Jared Goff.)

Imagine if Goff (even at his college sophomore level of play) were on our roster for next season, how many games we would win!
I think we really underrate the recent QB play. We had so many years in the QB wilderness post-Longshore injury. Riley was average, Maynard and Bowers below that. Goff, Webb, sophomore and senior year Garbers were anywhere from elite to above average p5 QBs. The rest were disasters

Cal QB Career Passing Ratings (min 100 attempts)
1. Rodgers 150.3
2. Goff 144.0
3. Barr 140.9
4. Webb 135.6
5. Robertson 135.5
6. Barnes 134.9
7. Campbell 132.7
8. Pawlawski 132.4'
9. Garbers 132.3
10. Longshore 131.8
11. Riley 131.6
12. Maynard 128.4
13. Grauman 126.3
14. Taylor 124.1
15. Morton 123.2
16. Young 122.9
17. Bowers 120.4
18. Roth 116.6
19. Vedder 116.3
20. Ayoob 114.1
21. Gilbert 112.7
22. Bartkowski 112.7
23. Besana 110.4
24. Penhall 108.8
25. Boller 108.2
26. Balliett 108.1
27. Brown 104.8
28. McIlwain 104.4
29. Modster 103.8
30. Ferragamo 102.9
31. Cruze 101.9
32. Kapp 95.2
33. Torchio 84.3
34. Humphries 91.7
35. Bedford 85.5
36. Mansion 85.3
37. Bronk 84.9
38. McGonigal 84.3
39. Bridgford 80.0

People tend to attribute wins to good QB play and losses to bad QB play, but there are 21+ other positions. People undervalue Barr, Garbers, Goff and Webb because their teams did not win much, or they played for coaches with losing records or just ones we didn't like.. Maynard was essentially the same as Longshore and Riley as a passer but was a better runner (OTOH Riley's stats suffered from not having as good of receivers as Longshore and Maynard).

Garbers was better than Longshore and just behind Pawlawski overall as a passer, but is also the Cal QB career rushing leader with 1,174 yards and 11 rushing TDs.
Since college QBs improve, sometimes dramatically, over their careers, it would be interesting to see the passer ratings for just their final year. I think this would more accurately correlate with the "eye-test" because frankly, there is no way that Gary Grauman is ten places better than Steve Bartkowski. One exception would be Roth, who of course was fighting melanoma his final year. However, I have a long list of to-dos for the day, so will leave the work to any other BI member who steps up.

As far as S71's comment about the need to include toughness and playing well in important games, I'd argue (colored by my then 16-year-old perspective) Dave Penhall should move way up the list. Against two heavily favored Stanford teams, he engineered a one-point loss in 1969 and a victory in Plunkett's Heisman year.

Top 20 final significant season at Cal:
1. Goff 161.2
2. Rodgers 154.3
3. Robertson 154.2
4. Barnes 150.1
5. Pawlawski 141.1
6. Riley 140.7
7. Roth* 139.9
8. Garbers 136.1
9. Webb 135.6
10. Barr 134.7
11. Campbell 132.2
12. Cruze 131.2
13. Bartkowski 130.6
14. Maynard 130.3
15. Boller 126
16. Morton 126.0
17. Longshore 125.8
18. Bowers 122.1
19. Taylor 121.5
20. Penhall 121.1

*Roth's first season since his second he was dying of cancer.
Thanks for this work, calumnus! This prompts the following thoughts:
I forgot how good Pat Barnes was for that one season under Mariucci - too bad the defense was so awful. I wonder why Barnes didn't stick in the NFL while Gale Gilbert hung on as 2nd or 3rd string QB on various teams for years.
As has already been said, it's hard to compare QBs from different eras. Changes in pass defense and offensive strategy have a big impact on these ratings. Goff vs Rodgers vs Roth vs Morton
I remember Jay Cruze - he was a good passer, but always carried an extra 10 lbs around the middle.
For holding as many Cal records as he did, even Troy Taylor's best season wasn't that great.
Anyway, thanks again!

Rule changes have played a significant role in the differences between then and now. Today, the game is structured to heavily favor offense because that is what the masses want….

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