100% pay to play

8,333 Views | 68 Replies | Last: 3 yr ago by SFCityBear
bluehenbear
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Quote:

While this isn't official, the word is that USC is offering Addison a NIL deal north of $2 million to head to Southern California. PSN is also told that this isn't the first time a program has offered Addison a large sum of money. Following the season, it's believed that Kentucky offered the Biletnikoff winner $800,000 to go to Lexington and he turned them down
So the media is no longer separating the institutions/programs from the supposedly independent organizations that are handling/offering the NIL money.

This isn't supposed to be how this was supposed to work and NCAA and conferences have been asleep at the wheel.
CALiforniALUM
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Could the University offer free education to players' descendants as part of an NIL package? You guarantee admittance and free tuition to an athlete's descendants who must maintain a C or better average else the scholarship is voided. So the university doesn't have to matriculate somebody who can't meet the educational standard. You would probably have to limit it to a certain number of offspring each generation with some sort of genealogical/biological connection. Today's boosters could fund 529 accounts tax free to cover the cost of the future education and let it grow in perpetuity.

I think we have about a 1000 athletes. Assuming we offer the top 100 athletes this type of package and the athletes are all under 20 years. If they wait to have kids for another 15 years, who then have to grow to be college age themselves, you have more than 35 years of earning growth to cover the down stream costs just for the first generation. The athlete's grand kids wouldn't be in line for another 35 years. This seems like something an educational institution like Cal could get behind, granting scholarships based on future educational benefits. If somebody offered me that kind of package I would take it. It also builds alumni relationships and turns families into Cal fans.

3......2........1.......ok now tell me why this wouldn't work.
oskidunker
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Recruits wont care about that
Bring back It’s It’s to Haas Pavillion!
calumnus
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oskidunker said:

Recruits wont care about that


Plus, even if it worked, in a few generations, all your students will be descendants of athletes on full scholarships.
62bear
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oski003 said:

Current bid is at 3 million dollars. He must be good.

https://pittsburghsportsnow.com/2022/04/29/wr-jordan-addison-expected-to-leave-pitt-for-usc-greater-nil-opportunities/
I love that one of the comments to that story claims that Pitt's NIL compliance office is known as the most difficult in the country to get a deal past. Because this is common knowledge to everyone, Pitt has long been established as having the toughest NIL compliance regime. I have the sneaking suspicion that we're going to see this claim made by dozens if not a hundred college football fanbases in the near future.
GMP
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CALiforniALUM said:

Could the University offer free education to players' descendants as part of an NIL package? You guarantee admittance and free tuition to an athlete's descendants who must maintain a C or better average else the scholarship is voided. So the university doesn't have to matriculate somebody who can't meet the educational standard. You would probably have to limit it to a certain number of offspring each generation with some sort of genealogical/biological connection. Today's boosters could fund 529 accounts tax free to cover the cost of the future education and let it grow in perpetuity.

I think we have about a 1000 athletes. Assuming we offer the top 100 athletes this type of package and the athletes are all under 20 years. If they wait to have kids for another 15 years, who then have to grow to be college age themselves, you have more than 35 years of earning growth to cover the down stream costs just for the first generation. The athlete's grand kids wouldn't be in line for another 35 years. This seems like something an educational institution like Cal could get behind, granting scholarships based on future educational benefits. If somebody offered me that kind of package I would take it. It also builds alumni relationships and turns families into Cal fans.

3......2........1.......ok now tell me why this wouldn't work.


My man, there are so many problems with this idea but the funniest one for me, as a former law student, is that (I am pretty sure!) it violates the Rule Against Perpetuities.

I've been an attorney for 12 years and granted I don't often practice in an area where RAP might come up, but this is the first time I've seen it at work.
Oski87
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calumnus said:

BearSD said:

Can't practically do that in college sports because each school has 30-plus sports. No one wants to have to keep track of different divisions for their sports.

Even if it was just football -- the big boys of the sport don't want it, even though they are in no danger of "relegation". Ohio State, for example, doesn't want to have Illinois or Indiana replaced in the Big Ten by Northern Illinois or Ball State. The Big Ten schools have brand equity in the conference, and a revolving door of membership would damage the value. Same would be true for any other top conference.


It would be for football and men's basketball only.

Hawaii is in the MWC for football and the Big West for everything else. It is not unusual.

And yes, the conferences are currently powerful, hold the TV contracts and so it makes sense for the schools to stick together for now. I am looking further down the road, when the gulf between winners and losers under the new system becomes too great and it no longer makes sense to be in the same conference.

Or the domination of the conferences by big power schools just accentuates. We go back to losing a lot of games and viewing Big Game as the season.
No one is interested in relegation - the fans, the teams, the universities or the TV people. What is the point and what would it solve?

Ok - there is a super league. So what? We call that the SEC today. What difference would that make to Cal? Are they going to offer more scholarship there or is cal still going to get its 85 players from the oool of high school players?

Once again - why would anyone agree to that unless they were already on the bottom?

calumnus
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Oski87 said:

calumnus said:

BearSD said:

Can't practically do that in college sports because each school has 30-plus sports. No one wants to have to keep track of different divisions for their sports.

Even if it was just football -- the big boys of the sport don't want it, even though they are in no danger of "relegation". Ohio State, for example, doesn't want to have Illinois or Indiana replaced in the Big Ten by Northern Illinois or Ball State. The Big Ten schools have brand equity in the conference, and a revolving door of membership would damage the value. Same would be true for any other top conference.


It would be for football and men's basketball only.

Hawaii is in the MWC for football and the Big West for everything else. It is not unusual.

And yes, the conferences are currently powerful, hold the TV contracts and so it makes sense for the schools to stick together for now. I am looking further down the road, when the gulf between winners and losers under the new system becomes too great and it no longer makes sense to be in the same conference.

Or the domination of the conferences by big power schools just accentuates. We go back to losing a lot of games and viewing Big Game as the season.
No one is interested in relegation - the fans, the teams, the universities or the TV people. What is the point and what would it solve?

Ok - there is a super league. So what? We call that the SEC today. What difference would that make to Cal? Are they going to offer more scholarship there or is cal still going to get its 85 players from the oool of high school players?

Once again - why would anyone agree to that unless they were already on the bottom?




Agree, no one is interested in relegation, for now.

However, in the thread there was discussion of a not too distant future where Cal and Stanford might drop football, or where there is a "super league" where players get paid and somehow other schools like Cal and Stanford maintain "amateurism." Well the second suggestion is not enforceable. The players cannot be prevented from being paid at any level. D1 or D2.

And as for the "Superleague" how would that be determined? The schools cannot "opt in" it is market forces and boosters over time that will determine who are the powers.

So either the leagues continue on but with increasingly lopsided and uninteresting play between the haves and the have nots, or the NCAA comes up with a new structure.

Relegation is a possible solution at that point because it is the best market based method to to organize teams with widely differing resources (determined by the market) into leagues for competitive/entertaining games. If teams get stronger because of a new booster/donor, then they can start competing with the higher level competition. It is just a possibility, but obviously the conditions necessitating it will have to exist before anyone will consider it.
gardenstatebear
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GMP said:

CALiforniALUM said:

Could the University offer free education to players' descendants as part of an NIL package? You guarantee admittance and free tuition to an athlete's descendants who must maintain a C or better average else the scholarship is voided. So the university doesn't have to matriculate somebody who can't meet the educational standard. You would probably have to limit it to a certain number of offspring each generation with some sort of genealogical/biological connection. Today's boosters could fund 529 accounts tax free to cover the cost of the future education and let it grow in perpetuity.

I think we have about a 1000 athletes. Assuming we offer the top 100 athletes this type of package and the athletes are all under 20 years. If they wait to have kids for another 15 years, who then have to grow to be college age themselves, you have more than 35 years of earning growth to cover the down stream costs just for the first generation. The athlete's grand kids wouldn't be in line for another 35 years. This seems like something an educational institution like Cal could get behind, granting scholarships based on future educational benefits. If somebody offered me that kind of package I would take it. It also builds alumni relationships and turns families into Cal fans.

3......2........1.......ok now tell me why this wouldn't work.


My man, there are so many problems with this idea but the funniest one for me, as a former law student, is that (I am pretty sure!) it violates the Rule Against Perpetuities.

I've been an attorney for 12 years and granted I don't often practice in an area where RAP might come up, but this is the first time I've seen it at work.
A number of states (my own state of New Jersey is an example) have repealed the Rule Against Perpetuities. That allows the establishment of perpetual trusts, and so such a trust could be established to pay for college tuition at a specific institution. (I don't think it would be a problem that the institution would be in another state.) California itself has adopted the Uniform Statutory Rule Against Perpetuities, which provides a 90-year "wait and see" period for interests that violate the common law Rule Against Perpetuities, and this would probably mean that at least a couple of generations of descendants could benefit. .

That said, I find the idea weird. It amounts to legacy admissions, which is something virtually no public institution does, and which UC has never done. Legacy admissions are increasingly controversial even at private institutions -- like the Ivies -- that have long done them. Beside, as said earlier, it is hard to imagine a young person being interested in that kind of benefit for hypothetical future children.
Bobodeluxe
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Never?

"Reports that say that something hasn't happened are always interesting to me, because as we know, there are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknownsthe ones we don't know we don't know. And if one looks throughout the history of our country and other free countries, it is the latter category that tends to be the difficult ones."

RIP dr
HoopDreams
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interesting ... university president fires their AD because he didn't participate in 'pay to play'

is this getting wacky or not?

https://www.espn.com/college-sports/story/_/id/33856428/wichita-state-shockers-fire-athletic-director-darron-boatright-amid-criticism-school-compete-nil-market
62bear
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HoopDreams said:

interesting ... university president fires their AD because he didn't participate in 'pay to play'

is this getting wacky or not?

https://www.espn.com/college-sports/story/_/id/33856428/wichita-state-shockers-fire-athletic-director-darron-boatright-amid-criticism-school-compete-nil-market
Isn't this the athletic department the Kochs were donating to??
Oski87
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HoopDreams said:

interesting ... university president fires their AD because he didn't participate in 'pay to play'

is this getting wacky or not?

https://www.espn.com/college-sports/story/_/id/33856428/wichita-state-shockers-fire-athletic-director-darron-boatright-amid-criticism-school-compete-nil-market
So now we know for sure that anyone that goes to the WS is definitely financially incented. I mean - the guy was fired for not setting up a collective - something that is expressly forbidden by the NCAA. And then they came out and said it in public. Amazing.
Bobodeluxe
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Laundry
annarborbear
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I think we may eventually see a set up.of conferences with different pay scales. There may also be an elimination of all academic requirements. Fortunately, I am pretty old and won't have to see it.
calumnus
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annarborbear said:

I think we may eventually see a set up.of conferences with different pay scales. There may also be an elimination of all academic requirements. Fortunately, I am pretty old and won't have to see it.


There cannot be pay scales. The university needs to be hands off. The money needs to come from third parties, advertisers and boosters. There can be no restraint of trade. That is why I think instead of leagues with pay scales, it could be done de facto via relegation.
gardenstatebear
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HoopDreams said:

interesting ... university president fires their AD because he didn't participate in 'pay to play'

is this getting wacky or not?

https://www.espn.com/college-sports/story/_/id/33856428/wichita-state-shockers-fire-athletic-director-darron-boatright-amid-criticism-school-compete-nil-market
As I read the story, the AD was fired because he didn't "educate" boosters about NIL. The idea seems to be that an AD is supposed to tell the boosters, "hey, here's what you can do," but not necessarily help them do it, e.g. "have you thought about paying X to use his picture in your advertising?" That is a really fine line. It is why we need national legislation -- to define with some precision what schools can and cannot do it. The NCAA or conferences can try to do it, but they run the risk of anti-trust litigation, which of course Congress doesn't.
BearSD
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gardenstatebear said:

HoopDreams said:

interesting ... university president fires their AD because he didn't participate in 'pay to play'

is this getting wacky or not?

https://www.espn.com/college-sports/story/_/id/33856428/wichita-state-shockers-fire-athletic-director-darron-boatright-amid-criticism-school-compete-nil-market
As I read the story, the AD was fired because he didn't "educate" boosters about NIL. The idea seems to be that an AD is supposed to tell the boosters, "hey, here's what you can do," but not necessarily help them do it, e.g. "have you thought about paying X to use his picture in your advertising?" That is a really fine line. It is why we need national legislation -- to define with some precision what schools can and cannot do it. The NCAA or conferences can try to do it, but they run the risk of anti-trust litigation, which of course Congress doesn't.
What Wichita State wanted is much more than just "educating" boosters. Here's a quote from the article, from the just-fired AD: "Where we erred was focusing on educating our athletes about NIL and not just collecting cash and paying kids to come to Wichita State."

Federal legislation is not the solution. Federal legislation requires the federal government to enforce the law and prosecute alleged violators. The federal government absolutely, 100 percent, does not want its investigators and its prosecutors investigating and prosecuting things like "Da U" and its billionaire booster if it turns out he "might have" coordinated with Miami's football coaches and AD when he handed out NIL deals as freely as if he was handing out candy to trick-or-treaters on Halloween.

The feds are going to divert resources from prosecuting organized crime, or trying to keep terrorists out of the US, just so they can clamp down on college athletes' NIL deals? No friggin' way.
gardenstatebear
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BearSD said:

gardenstatebear said:

HoopDreams said:

interesting ... university president fires their AD because he didn't participate in 'pay to play'

is this getting wacky or not?

https://www.espn.com/college-sports/story/_/id/33856428/wichita-state-shockers-fire-athletic-director-darron-boatright-amid-criticism-school-compete-nil-market
As I read the story, the AD was fired because he didn't "educate" boosters about NIL. The idea seems to be that an AD is supposed to tell the boosters, "hey, here's what you can do," but not necessarily help them do it, e.g. "have you thought about paying X to use his picture in your advertising?" That is a really fine line. It is why we need national legislation -- to define with some precision what schools can and cannot do it. The NCAA or conferences can try to do it, but they run the risk of anti-trust litigation, which of course Congress doesn't.
What Wichita State wanted is much more than just "educating" boosters. Here's a quote from the article, from the just-fired AD: "Where we erred was focusing on educating our athletes about NIL and not just collecting cash and paying kids to come to Wichita State."

Federal legislation is not the solution. Federal legislation requires the federal government to enforce the law and prosecute alleged violators. The federal government absolutely, 100 percent, does not want its investigators and its prosecutors investigating and prosecuting things like "Da U" and its billionaire booster if it turns out he "might have" coordinated with Miami's football coaches and AD when he handed out NIL deals as freely as if he was handing out candy to trick-or-treaters on Halloween.

The feds are going to divert resources from prosecuting organized crime, or trying to keep terrorists out of the US, just so they can clamp down on college athletes' NIL deals? No friggin' way.
That's a huge exaggeration. All that's really needed is for Congress to lay down some parameters, to authorize the Federal Trade Commission or Department of Education to make rules, and to authorize private lawsuits in addition to government enforcement to enforce the rules and statute. It doesn't require a huge expenditure of resources any more than any other federal regulation. No one, not even a billionaire, wants to run the risk of litigation against the government. (There's a saying that the government is big and dumb -- but it can fall on you!) The problem really is to get a sufficient coalition of the stakeholders to agree on legislation and for them to push for adoption.
calumnus
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BearSD said:

gardenstatebear said:

HoopDreams said:

interesting ... university president fires their AD because he didn't participate in 'pay to play'

is this getting wacky or not?

https://www.espn.com/college-sports/story/_/id/33856428/wichita-state-shockers-fire-athletic-director-darron-boatright-amid-criticism-school-compete-nil-market
As I read the story, the AD was fired because he didn't "educate" boosters about NIL. The idea seems to be that an AD is supposed to tell the boosters, "hey, here's what you can do," but not necessarily help them do it, e.g. "have you thought about paying X to use his picture in your advertising?" That is a really fine line. It is why we need national legislation -- to define with some precision what schools can and cannot do it. The NCAA or conferences can try to do it, but they run the risk of anti-trust litigation, which of course Congress doesn't.
What Wichita State wanted is much more than just "educating" boosters. Here's a quote from the article, from the just-fired AD: "Where we erred was focusing on educating our athletes about NIL and not just collecting cash and paying kids to come to Wichita State."

Federal legislation is not the solution. Federal legislation requires the federal government to enforce the law and prosecute alleged violators. The federal government absolutely, 100 percent, does not want its investigators and its prosecutors investigating and prosecuting things like "Da U" and its billionaire booster if it turns out he "might have" coordinated with Miami's football coaches and AD when he handed out NIL deals as freely as if he was handing out candy to trick-or-treaters on Halloween.

The feds are going to divert resources from prosecuting organized crime, or trying to keep terrorists out of the US, just so they can clamp down on college athletes' NIL deals? No friggin' way.


Federal Legislation is only needed for an antitrust exemption to authorize the NCAA to set the rules and regulate the universities.
BearSD
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calumnus said:

BearSD said:

gardenstatebear said:

HoopDreams said:

interesting ... university president fires their AD because he didn't participate in 'pay to play'

is this getting wacky or not?

https://www.espn.com/college-sports/story/_/id/33856428/wichita-state-shockers-fire-athletic-director-darron-boatright-amid-criticism-school-compete-nil-market
As I read the story, the AD was fired because he didn't "educate" boosters about NIL. The idea seems to be that an AD is supposed to tell the boosters, "hey, here's what you can do," but not necessarily help them do it, e.g. "have you thought about paying X to use his picture in your advertising?" That is a really fine line. It is why we need national legislation -- to define with some precision what schools can and cannot do it. The NCAA or conferences can try to do it, but they run the risk of anti-trust litigation, which of course Congress doesn't.
What Wichita State wanted is much more than just "educating" boosters. Here's a quote from the article, from the just-fired AD: "Where we erred was focusing on educating our athletes about NIL and not just collecting cash and paying kids to come to Wichita State."

Federal legislation is not the solution. Federal legislation requires the federal government to enforce the law and prosecute alleged violators. The federal government absolutely, 100 percent, does not want its investigators and its prosecutors investigating and prosecuting things like "Da U" and its billionaire booster if it turns out he "might have" coordinated with Miami's football coaches and AD when he handed out NIL deals as freely as if he was handing out candy to trick-or-treaters on Halloween.

The feds are going to divert resources from prosecuting organized crime, or trying to keep terrorists out of the US, just so they can clamp down on college athletes' NIL deals? No friggin' way.

Federal Legislation is only needed for an antitrust exemption to authorize the NCAA to set the rules and regulate the universities.
Empower the NCAA? No thanks. That cure is worse than the disease.
calumnus
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BearSD said:

calumnus said:

BearSD said:

gardenstatebear said:

HoopDreams said:

interesting ... university president fires their AD because he didn't participate in 'pay to play'

is this getting wacky or not?

https://www.espn.com/college-sports/story/_/id/33856428/wichita-state-shockers-fire-athletic-director-darron-boatright-amid-criticism-school-compete-nil-market
As I read the story, the AD was fired because he didn't "educate" boosters about NIL. The idea seems to be that an AD is supposed to tell the boosters, "hey, here's what you can do," but not necessarily help them do it, e.g. "have you thought about paying X to use his picture in your advertising?" That is a really fine line. It is why we need national legislation -- to define with some precision what schools can and cannot do it. The NCAA or conferences can try to do it, but they run the risk of anti-trust litigation, which of course Congress doesn't.
What Wichita State wanted is much more than just "educating" boosters. Here's a quote from the article, from the just-fired AD: "Where we erred was focusing on educating our athletes about NIL and not just collecting cash and paying kids to come to Wichita State."

Federal legislation is not the solution. Federal legislation requires the federal government to enforce the law and prosecute alleged violators. The federal government absolutely, 100 percent, does not want its investigators and its prosecutors investigating and prosecuting things like "Da U" and its billionaire booster if it turns out he "might have" coordinated with Miami's football coaches and AD when he handed out NIL deals as freely as if he was handing out candy to trick-or-treaters on Halloween.

The feds are going to divert resources from prosecuting organized crime, or trying to keep terrorists out of the US, just so they can clamp down on college athletes' NIL deals? No friggin' way.

Federal Legislation is only needed for an antitrust exemption to authorize the NCAA to set the rules and regulate the universities.
Empower the NCAA? No thanks. That cure is worse than the disease.


Then the individual leagues? The NCAA is the governing authority for college sports. Right now, their hands are tied on NIL without an act of Congress. If there are going to be rules, and going to be enforcement, especially uniform rules among all the schools, so inter league competition is meaningful, then the NCAA is the logical rule making and enforcement entity, as imperfect as they have been and always will be. The only real alternative is the Wild West, no rules, let the market decide.
BearSD
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calumnus said:

BearSD said:

calumnus said:

BearSD said:

gardenstatebear said:

HoopDreams said:

interesting ... university president fires their AD because he didn't participate in 'pay to play'

is this getting wacky or not?

https://www.espn.com/college-sports/story/_/id/33856428/wichita-state-shockers-fire-athletic-director-darron-boatright-amid-criticism-school-compete-nil-market
As I read the story, the AD was fired because he didn't "educate" boosters about NIL. The idea seems to be that an AD is supposed to tell the boosters, "hey, here's what you can do," but not necessarily help them do it, e.g. "have you thought about paying X to use his picture in your advertising?" That is a really fine line. It is why we need national legislation -- to define with some precision what schools can and cannot do it. The NCAA or conferences can try to do it, but they run the risk of anti-trust litigation, which of course Congress doesn't.
What Wichita State wanted is much more than just "educating" boosters. Here's a quote from the article, from the just-fired AD: "Where we erred was focusing on educating our athletes about NIL and not just collecting cash and paying kids to come to Wichita State."

Federal legislation is not the solution. Federal legislation requires the federal government to enforce the law and prosecute alleged violators. The federal government absolutely, 100 percent, does not want its investigators and its prosecutors investigating and prosecuting things like "Da U" and its billionaire booster if it turns out he "might have" coordinated with Miami's football coaches and AD when he handed out NIL deals as freely as if he was handing out candy to trick-or-treaters on Halloween.

The feds are going to divert resources from prosecuting organized crime, or trying to keep terrorists out of the US, just so they can clamp down on college athletes' NIL deals? No friggin' way.

Federal Legislation is only needed for an antitrust exemption to authorize the NCAA to set the rules and regulate the universities.
Empower the NCAA? No thanks. That cure is worse than the disease.

Then the individual leagues? The NCAA is the governing authority for college sports. Right now, their hands are tied on NIL without an act of Congress. If there are going to be rules, and going to be enforcement, especially uniform rules among all the schools, so inter league competition is meaningful, then the NCAA is the logical rule making and enforcement entity, as imperfect as they have been and always will be. The only real alternative is the Wild West, no rules, let the market decide.
I can't think of any organization that I would trust to make rules that wouldn't just screw the athletes.

If the NCAA, or the SEC, passed a rule limiting head football coaches' compensation to $200,000/year, that would be illegal.

If the law doesn't permit limiting Nick Saban's compensation, why should the law permit limiting the compensation of the athletes whose hard work makes Saban a success and makes Alabama and its boosters want to pay him $11 million/year?
Bobodeluxe
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Professional leagues have pay caps and other methods to approach something like competitive balance. The college game is dead if nothing changes.
HoopDreams
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the earlier judge ruled extra educational-related stipends up to a certain limit, with a very liberal definition of 'educational-related'. Her ruling heavily considered how her decision would impact the overall college athletics landscape.

she understood that a ruling helping the athlete, but ultimately kill the sport, is not good for the athlete, or at least athletes as a group.

The current situation doesn't seem to contemplate that



calumnus
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BearSD said:

calumnus said:

BearSD said:

calumnus said:

BearSD said:

gardenstatebear said:

HoopDreams said:

interesting ... university president fires their AD because he didn't participate in 'pay to play'

is this getting wacky or not?

https://www.espn.com/college-sports/story/_/id/33856428/wichita-state-shockers-fire-athletic-director-darron-boatright-amid-criticism-school-compete-nil-market
As I read the story, the AD was fired because he didn't "educate" boosters about NIL. The idea seems to be that an AD is supposed to tell the boosters, "hey, here's what you can do," but not necessarily help them do it, e.g. "have you thought about paying X to use his picture in your advertising?" That is a really fine line. It is why we need national legislation -- to define with some precision what schools can and cannot do it. The NCAA or conferences can try to do it, but they run the risk of anti-trust litigation, which of course Congress doesn't.
What Wichita State wanted is much more than just "educating" boosters. Here's a quote from the article, from the just-fired AD: "Where we erred was focusing on educating our athletes about NIL and not just collecting cash and paying kids to come to Wichita State."

Federal legislation is not the solution. Federal legislation requires the federal government to enforce the law and prosecute alleged violators. The federal government absolutely, 100 percent, does not want its investigators and its prosecutors investigating and prosecuting things like "Da U" and its billionaire booster if it turns out he "might have" coordinated with Miami's football coaches and AD when he handed out NIL deals as freely as if he was handing out candy to trick-or-treaters on Halloween.

The feds are going to divert resources from prosecuting organized crime, or trying to keep terrorists out of the US, just so they can clamp down on college athletes' NIL deals? No friggin' way.

Federal Legislation is only needed for an antitrust exemption to authorize the NCAA to set the rules and regulate the universities.
Empower the NCAA? No thanks. That cure is worse than the disease.

Then the individual leagues? The NCAA is the governing authority for college sports. Right now, their hands are tied on NIL without an act of Congress. If there are going to be rules, and going to be enforcement, especially uniform rules among all the schools, so inter league competition is meaningful, then the NCAA is the logical rule making and enforcement entity, as imperfect as they have been and always will be. The only real alternative is the Wild West, no rules, let the market decide.
I can't think of any organization that I would trust to make rules that wouldn't just screw the athletes.

If the NCAA, or the SEC, passed a rule limiting head football coaches' compensation to $200,000/year, that would be illegal.

If the law doesn't permit limiting Nick Saban's compensation, why should the law permit limiting the compensation of the athletes whose hard work makes Saban a success and makes Alabama and its boosters want to pay him $11 million/year?


The antitrust laws were created by Congress, Congress can give out exemptions, like they did for baseball (which the owners screwed up). In professional sports (including baseball) there is collective bargaining between players' unions and ownership that establishes salary minimums and salary caps. However there are too many schools, players, coaches to effectively collectively bargain.

Thus, without an act of Congress, there cannot be leagues with different "salary caps" imposed by the league or anyone else. Or divisions. Apart from enabling act of Congress, the only choice is increasingly unequal competition in the current system, or a market based system like relegation enacted at the national level, with the NCAA as the presumptive organizer. However, it is unlikely the conferences would surrender their current power willingly, so the path of increasingly unequal competition under the current system (except with players getting paid) looks like the near term future.
gardenstatebear
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Here is a link to a site that itself links to the bills introduced in Congress to regulate NIL. At least the one I looked at didn't simply punt the issue to the NCAA. https://www.saul.com/nil-legislation-tracker
calumnus
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gardenstatebear said:

Here is a link to a site that itself links to the bills introduced in Congress to regulate NIL. At least the one I looked at didn't simply punt the issue to the NCAA. https://www.saul.com/nil-legislation-tracker


From my quick glancing through the bills they are focused on establishing the rights of players to their NIL and enforcement of those rights by the FTC, or in a few of the Republican sponsored bills, a new Federal commission. The only restrictions being receiving money tied to gambling or other "objectionable" sources. A key point of the bills is "non-waiver ability" so schools cannot sign players to contracts/scholarship agreements where they waive their rights to NIL. Basically, they are just bills meant to firmly establish, at a national level, the NIL rights that many states have already granted and the NCAA has already accepted as the new legal reality. Enforcement of players' rights to compensation will never be "punted" to the NCAA, since the NCAA is essentially the employer organization. Their interest is in restricting player earnings, as they have done throughout their history.

Thus, as I have been saying, if there are going to be any RESTRICTIONS on the amount of player payments, by divisions or leagues, it would require Congress to grant schools, leagues or the NCAA those rights (basically the opposite of what these bills are doing). If there is public outcry after years under the new Wild West, maybe Congress acts, but it will be tough to put the genie back in the bottle as it will face legal challenges.

That is why, my prediction is people will either come to accept the increasingly unequal landscape with losing teams possibly dropping the sport, or as an alternative some sort of market based system will develop or be adopted like relegation, either organized or defacto (weak teams getting kicked out of or quitting strong leagues).

gardenstatebear
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calumnus said:

gardenstatebear said:

Here is a link to a site that itself links to the bills introduced in Congress to regulate NIL. At least the one I looked at didn't simply punt the issue to the NCAA. https://www.saul.com/nil-legislation-tracker


From my quick glancing through the bills they are focused on establishing the rights of players to their NIL and enforcement of those rights by the FTC, or in a few of the Republican sponsored bills, a new Federal commission. The only restrictions being receiving money tied to gambling or other "objectionable" sources. A key point of the bills is "non-waiver ability" so schools cannot sign players to contracts/scholarship agreements where they waive their rights to NIL. Basically, they are just bills meant to firmly establish, at a national level, the NIL rights that many states have already granted and the NCAA has already accepted as the new legal reality. Enforcement of players' rights to compensation will never be "punted" to the NCAA, since the NCAA is essentially the employer organization. Their interest is in restricting player earnings, as they have done throughout their history.

Thus, as I have been saying, if there are going to be any RESTRICTIONS on the amount of player payments, by divisions or leagues, it would require Congress to grant schools, leagues or the NCAA those rights (basically the opposite of what these bills are doing). If there is public outcry after years under the new Wild West, maybe Congress acts, but it will be tough to put the genie back in the bottle as it will face legal challenges.

That is why, my prediction is people will either come to accept the increasingly unequal landscape with losing teams possibly dropping the sport, or as an alternative some sort of market based system will develop or be adopted like relegation, either organized or defacto (weak teams getting kicked out of or quitting strong leagues).


I agree with the thrust of this. I think it is *very* unlikely that legislation will ever pass that ends NIL. We're in a new world. My guess is that there will be restrictions on what schools can do to be intermediaries between athletes and boosters. The schools with the richest and most passionate boosters will come out ahead, but maybe that's not all that different from what was going on anyway. Fans, I suspect, will get used to college athletes being compensated through NIL and to athletes transferring to get better deals, just as pro athletes use free agency to ger more money. I'm not sure what it means for schools like Cal except to further reduce the already slim chance that such schools will win football or men's basketball scholarships. I don't know what that means for fan interest, but how many of us really expect that Cal will return to the Rose Bowl or win an NCAA basketball tournament in our lifetimes?
oski003
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Jordan Addison is getting paid 3.5 million to play for USC this year. Insanity.

"Pitt WR Jordan Addison reportedly transferring to USC on NIL mega-deal, will make more than JuJu Smith-Schuster with the Chiefs in 2022."
GMP
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oski003 said:

Jordan Addison is getting paid 3.5 million to play for USC this year. Insanity.

"Pitt WR Jordan Addison reportedly transferring to USC on NIL mega-deal, will make more than JuJu Smith-Schuster with the Chiefs in 2022."


Why is it insane, though?
Unit2Sucks
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GMP said:

oski003 said:

Jordan Addison is getting paid 3.5 million to play for USC this year. Insanity.

"Pitt WR Jordan Addison reportedly transferring to USC on NIL mega-deal, will make more than JuJu Smith-Schuster with the Chiefs in 2022."


Why is it insane, though?
USC stars historically took a pay cut when they went to the NFL. This is just a return to the 70's. It's insane to expect the NIL to play out differently.
Bobodeluxe
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College football and basketball are the only professional sports we have without a salary cap. I hope it comes to the NFL, NBA and MLB, because I don't care about them either.
SFCityBear
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Big Dog said:

Golden One said:

calumnus said:



We go back to losing a lot of games and viewing Big Game as the season.
This is the way it's been for over 50 years, except for the best Snyder and Tedford years. Hard to see that changing anytime soon.
Mike White and Joe Roth would like a word...!
Exactly. Not to mention Wesley Walker, Chuck Muncie, and Steve Rivera, et al. That was one of Cal's very best teams.
SFCityBear
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