Don't get it - these players bust their ass for you and this team year-round and when a ref throws a phantom flag at a key point in the game - you have nothing meaningful to say?

We can't get a formal accounting of the penalty (name of ref who threw flag, who was it on, NBC LOS camera shot etc.? This was not a garden variety bad pi or holding call.

You owe it to your players. Show some fire for a change.

SmellinRoses said:

---

Don't get it - these players bust their ass for you and this team year-round and when a ref throws a phantom flag at a key point in the game - you have nothing meaningful to say?

We can't get a formal accounting of the penalty (name of ref who threw flag, who was it on, NBC LOS camera shot etc.? This was not a garden variety bad pi or holding call.

You owe it to your players. Show some fire for a change.

---

PREACH!!!! Can't believe his classic BS responses to it:

Wilcox at halftime: "I'm not going to talk about it."
Wilcox postgame: "We've got to get better at overcoming penalties."

WHAT.........THE........**** dude.?!?!

How about at least saying something like this when asked after the game:

"You all saw the play. I still haven't gotten an explanation on why they threw that flag, which obviously had a huge impact on the outcome of the game. We will be sending the tape to the ACC Commissioner and I trust that the crew will be disciplined appropriately."

Is there a fine on the school if he comments? If so this one is worth it. This one was way beyond the subjective calls that can happen. This was just straight up robbery in broad daylight.

I feel certain he will lodge a complaint. Why go all crazy and postal about it now when it doesn't matter? Anything wrong with responding rather than reacting? We all agree it was terrible.. He seemed more than pissed at halftime. Give him some time.like more than 24 hours?? Go Bears! Beat the ***** cats.

KoreAmBear said:

---

Is there a fine on the school if he comments? If so this one is worth it. This one was way beyond the subjective calls that can happen. This was just straight up robbery in broad daylight.

---

If there is, Wilcox should be able to foot the bill with his new close to $5M a year extension.

72CalBear said:

---

. Why go all crazy and postal about it now

---

Maybe because it shows his team how much this game means to him. Sadly, he is as bland a hc as i've seen. He knows his fb, but there's little enthusiasm.

72CalBear said:

---

I feel certain he will lodge a complaint. Why go all crazy and postal about it now when it doesn't matter? Anything wrong with responding rather than reacting? We all agree it was terrible.. He seemed more than pissed at halftime. Give him some time.like more than 24 hours?? Go Bears! Beat the ***** cats.

---

This. I assume he said one thing to his players, another thing to the media and is probably saying a third thing, back channel, to whatever powers there might be for this.

It's like the TV announcers said (paraphrased) after they showed the replay for a second time and saw nobody offsides: The call isn't going to be changed, so now Wilcox needs to move on and not let it affect him.

Of all the problems we have, it seems like one of the smallest is that Wilcox didn't complain about the refs enough after the call was finalized. That's really going to help by making the players feel supported?!?


Knowlton ought to be demanding an explanation, though. It was an absurd call.

Big C said:

---

72CalBear said:

---

I feel certain he will lodge a complaint. Why go all crazy and postal about it now when it doesn't matter? Anything wrong with responding rather than reacting? We all agree it was terrible.. He seemed more than pissed at halftime. Give him some time.like more than 24 hours?? Go Bears! Beat the ***** cats.

---

It was an absurd call.

---

Compounded by the other refs who, knowing the truth, didn't overrule him. They all went along, whether by design (waiting for the right opportunity) or timidity.

SmellinRoses said:

---

Don't get it - these players bust their ass for you and this team year-round and when a ref throws a phantom flag at a key point in the game - you have nothing meaningful to say?

We can't get a formal accounting of the penalty (name of ref who threw flag, who was it on, NBC LOS camera shot etc.? This was not a garden variety bad pi or holding call.

You owe it to your players. Show some fire for a change.

---

This is Knowlton's job. Wilcox needs to stay above this and not let his players get focused on calls that don't get there way. If he makes a big deal of this, we will be *****ing and whining about everything. This is Knowlton's battle to fight upwards. But he isn't going to do jack because he's a worthless piece of turd.

fat_slice said:

---

SmellinRoses said:

---

Don't get it - these players bust their ass for you and this team year-round and when a ref throws a phantom flag at a key point in the game - you have nothing meaningful to say?

We can't get a formal accounting of the penalty (name of ref who threw flag, who was it on, NBC LOS camera shot etc.? This was not a garden variety bad pi or holding call.

You owe it to your players. Show some fire for a change.

---

This is Knowlton's job. Wilcox needs to stay above this and not let his players get focused on calls that don't get there way. If he makes a big deal of this, we will be *****ing and whining about everything. This is Knowlton's battle to fight upwards. But he isn't going to do jack because he's a worthless piece of turd.

---

Actually, according to Wilner, it is Wilcox's job to contact the Pac 12 head of officiating, who then coordinates with the ACC.

I agree - this was so egregious it needs to be addressed. it is one thing to not want to blame the refs; it is another to be absolutely robbed and not stand up for yourself.

I'm told no statement coming from the ACC. Process with noncon game is for opposing HC to contact his supervisor of officials (for Wilcox, that would be David Coleman), who then works with his peer in the ACC

— Jon Wilner (@wilnerhotline) September 19, 2022

Somebody knows something about why this happened, and they will either have integrity and come forward, or they will go to hell.

Thanks Goggles. Good info - missed that.

Wow. Just Holy Wah! There was no offsides. There is some sort of fix where ND is not allowed to start the season 0-3. Too big to fail? I think so. F ND, and F NBC, and F the ACC officials.

Wow, was listening to it on the air, and had no idea it was so blatantly a non-call, I thought the 5yd 1st down was the controversial part. This is so disappointing to see.

BearGoggles said:

---

fat_slice said:

---

SmellinRoses said:

---

Don't get it - these players bust their ass for you and this team year-round and when a ref throws a phantom flag at a key point in the game - you have nothing meaningful to say?

We can't get a formal accounting of the penalty (name of ref who threw flag, who was it on, NBC LOS camera shot etc.? This was not a garden variety bad pi or holding call.

You owe it to your players. Show some fire for a change.

---

This is Knowlton's job. Wilcox needs to stay above this and not let his players get focused on calls that don't get there way. If he makes a big deal of this, we will be *****ing and whining about everything. This is Knowlton's battle to fight upwards. But he isn't going to do jack because he's a worthless piece of turd.

---

Actually, according to Wilner, it is Wilcox's job to contact the Pac 12 head of officiating, who then coordinates with the ACC.

I agree - this was so egregious it needs to be addressed. it is one thing to not want to blame the refs; it is another to be absolutely robbed and not stand up for yourself.

I'm told no statement coming from the ACC. Process with noncon game is for opposing HC to contact his supervisor of officials (for Wilcox, that would be David Coleman), who then works with his peer in the ACC

— Jon Wilner (@wilnerhotline) September 19, 2022

---

I'd like to know when, in the play, the hankie came out and who threw it. I was watching on tv and didn't see anything until after the ball went left. As to who threw it, you couldn't see and they weren't saying.

Side judge along the sideline on the Cal side from what I could see. Not sure if it was the same guy that threw the OPI flag on Hunter for that ridiculous call. He was close to 40 yds away and threw the flag after the ball landed out of bounds.

From a few eyewitness accounts the flag was dropped well after the kick was missed. Let's see what Wilcox, Cal, and the P12 office do about it. My guess is nothing.

GCGBear said:

---

Side judge along the sideline on the Cal side from what I could see. Not sure if it was the same guy that threw the OPI flag on Hunter for that ridiculous call. He was close to 40 yds away and threw the flag after the ball landed out of bounds.

---

The Side Judge! Good God!

Rushinbear said:

---

GCGBear said:

---

Side judge along the sideline on the Cal side from what I could see. Not sure if it was the same guy that threw the OPI flag on Hunter for that ridiculous call. He was close to 40 yds away and threw the flag after the ball landed out of bounds.

---

The Side Judge! Good God!

---

In my more charitable moments, I think that somehow he thought Hearns lined up offsides.

That said, he should have been overruled immediately by one of the many other officials who were, hopefully, also watching the game.

I normally find it disgusting when fans personally attack players, coaches, refs, etc., but this act of cheating was so egregious and detrimental to our program, I'd like to see that ref's name put out to the public so he can get some well-deserved hate emails/messages. Especially, since I doubt Wilcox and/or Knowlton will do anything about it.

SmellinRoses said:

---

Don't get it - these players bust their ass for you and this team year-round and when a ref throws a phantom flag at a key point in the game - you have nothing meaningful to say?

We can't get a formal accounting of the penalty (name of ref who threw flag, who was it on, NBC LOS camera shot etc.? This was not a garden variety bad pi or holding call.

You owe it to your players. Show some fire for a change.

---

A public display not outrage might make fans feel better but is not necessary to show the team he's with them and certainly wouldn't change anything. It was a s***** call but not the reason we lost.

59bear said:

---

SmellinRoses said:

---

Don't get it - these players bust their ass for you and this team year-round and when a ref throws a phantom flag at a key point in the game - you have nothing meaningful to say?

We can't get a formal accounting of the penalty (name of ref who threw flag, who was it on, NBC LOS camera shot etc.? This was not a garden variety bad pi or holding call.

You owe it to your players. Show some fire for a change.

---

A public display not outrage might make fans feel better but is not necessary to show the team he's with them and certainly wouldn't change anything. It was a s***** call but not the reason we lost.

---

It very well could have been the reason we lost. They had multiple punts before that and a missed FGA would have been demoralizing. Instead of 7-7 it would have remained 7-0 and then we drove for another FG to make it 10-0 with them reeling. The difference in the game was 7 points. That offsides may have saved the game and possibly the season for them. Although I figure they are really not going anywhere.

But besides that. it was a unicorn kind of bad call. So obvious. Not even open for even an iota of a debate. Not the typical bad call that still can be argued as subjectively feasible. The only explanation for this offsides was that there was an agenda involved. Very similar the agenda that the Pac-12 provided to refs to protect Furd in Big Games v. us when they were nationally relevant.

Times like these remind me of the SNL sketch featuring John Goodman as Referee Pitman.

"It seems as though you were ******ed on that play, ref."

https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=2438131106322938

KoreAmBear said:

---

59bear said:

---

SmellinRoses said:

---

Don't get it - these players bust their ass for you and this team year-round and when a ref throws a phantom flag at a key point in the game - you have nothing meaningful to say?

We can't get a formal accounting of the penalty (name of ref who threw flag, who was it on, NBC LOS camera shot etc.? This was not a garden variety bad pi or holding call.

You owe it to your players. Show some fire for a change.

---

A public display not outrage might make fans feel better but is not necessary to show the team he's with them and certainly wouldn't change anything. It was a s***** call but not the reason we lost.

---

It very well could have been the reason we lost. They had multiple punts before that and a missed FGA would have been demoralizing. Instead of 7-7 it would have remained 7-0 and then we drove for another FG to make it 10-0 with them reeling. The difference in the game was 7 points. That offsides may have saved the game and possibly the season for them. Although I figure they are really not going anywhere.

But besides that. it was a unicorn kind of bad call. So obvious. Not even open for even an iota of a debate. Not the typical bad call that still can be argued as subjectively feasible. The only explanation for this offsides was that there was an agenda involved. Very similar the agenda that the Pac-12 provided to refs to protect Furd in Big Games v. us when they were nationally relevant.

---

Agreed. We lost by 7, that gave them 7. Moreover, Wilcox teams play much better with the lead. Musgrave would not have gone all pass in the 4th quarter. We would have most likely stuck with our productive ground game. Probably added another score.

calumnus said:

---

KoreAmBear said:

---

59bear said:

---

... not the reason we lost.

---

It very well could have been the reason we lost. They had multiple punts before that and a missed FGA would have been demoralizing. Instead of 7-7 it would have remained 7-0 and then we drove for another FG to make it 10-0 with them reeling. The difference in the game was 7 points. That offsides may have saved the game and possibly the season for them. Although I figure they are really not going anywhere.

But besides that. it was a unicorn kind of bad call. So obvious. Not even open for even an iota of a debate. Not the typical bad call that still can be argued as subjectively feasible. The only explanation for this offsides was that there was an agenda involved. Very similar the agenda that the Pac-12 provided to refs to protect Furd in Big Games v. us when they were nationally relevant.

---

Agreed. We lost by 7, that gave them 7. Moreover, Wilcox teams play much better with the lead. Musgrave would not have gone all pass in the 4th quarter. We would have most likely stuck with our productive ground game. Probably added another score.

---

It is, of course, impossible to say - but it had huge potential to shift the game. Not to mention the referees' unmistakable message (reinforcing the signal sent by that BS celebration penalty): We are not going to let you win. Whether true about the referees or not. It has to have an impact on the players. Looking for a single variable in a 7 point game, I'd start there.

A couple of comments:
1. I have no problem with Wilcox not going nuts, it's important to set the example that players need to continue to play after bad calls, and focus on what you can control.
2. It definitely gave Notre Dame 7 points, but it would have been moot if Sirmon doesnt lose Tyree in coverage.
3. Those 7 points would have been key, as it would have forced Notre Dame to pass downfield more. Pyne is a terrible qb and I felt if he were forced to pass downfield, he would have had an interception or two.
4. I'm mixed about those 7 points helping the offense because with exception to the drive where Brooks got going when ND had two starting Dlinemen out with injury, the Oline was unable to create holes and the run game was terrible.
5. At the least, I would like an apology from the ACC for their officiating.

I feel like psychology/motivation of 18-22 year olds playing football is often overlooked / under appreciated. In fact, I think that was Tedfords biggest weakness, and what led to his demise (and also why he looks great when he goes somewhere new).

These aren't mature adults. These aren't people who have "been there" before. Notre Dame had punted it on what, 4 straight possessions to open the game? They were going no where. Cal started out poorly too, but looked like they were putting things together and were out to a 7 nothing lead. Notre Dame didn't have a first down at this point. Not a single first down. Everything that could go wrong for them was. Their QB was clearly rattled and they couldn't even complete the high percentage plays.

Then after Cal scored they were gifted the ball right at midfield at around the 45 yard line. They finally got a first down or two...they couldn't muster much more than that, but at least it was a scoring opportunity.

Then the ball clanked off the upright. This is when people start to give up. NOTHING going their way. Can't move the ball. Can't even hit a field goal. Pressure starts mounting on the offense to perform which causes things to spiral further and further out of control. There is a reason the announcers kept saying they have to calm the game down for the QB. Defense starts to give up. Why bother if the offense can't even get a first down let alone score.

Instead of this, the refs bailed them out, gave them second life, and to their credit, they turned it into 7 points.

Again...who knows what happens after this. Maybe Cal goes up 14-0, Notre Dame pulls their quarterback and the third string comes in with no pressure and re-ignites the team to a huge win. Maybe Cal is able to put the pedal down on a defeated Notre Dame team and beats then 28-0. Its impossible to tell for sure how the game would have played out, but it certainly was a huge boost to Notre Dames psyche.

And then there is the flip side. How many bogus/errant calls can be made against you before you give up if you are a Cal player? Get a good stop? Why bother? The refs will bail them out when it matters most. In context, this was a made up off sides penalty after an extremely soft excessive celebration set up the kick in the first place. Not too far after a questionable targeting call bailed ND out of a fourth and long situation. This wasn't even *that* controversial a call. I don't like it, but it was at least debatable...but after everything else that transpired its hard not to fall into a "refs are against us" mentality for the players.

Its hard to play when you think the refs are against you. And the refs kept doing just enough to remind Cal they were there. Challenging Plummers qb sneak for a td? Even the review official wondered why they were wasting our time with it. Offensive pass interference on a sideline play? How do you fight for the ball the next time down when it seems the ref will just negate it anyways?

It would have been very easy for Cal to give up on this game entirely based on how it was officiated and from that perspective I thought they actually did a relatively good job and took it down to the wire with a last second play that actually had a chance of going their way.

Officiating played a HUGE role in not just the scores, but the psyche of the players, on both sides. And us the fans were robbed of what could have been a legendary game for Cal. Good ND team or not.

golden sloth said:

---

A couple of comments:
1. I have no problem with Wilcox not going nuts, it's important to set the example that players need to continue to play after bad calls, and focus on what you can control.
2. It definitely gave Notre Dame 7 points, but it would have been moot if Sirmon doesnt lose Tyree in coverage.
3. Those 7 points would have been key, as it would have forced Notre Dame to pass downfield more. Pyne is a terrible qb and I felt if he were forced to pass downfield, he would have had an interception or two.
4. I'm mixed about those 7 points helping the offense because with exception to the drive where Brooks got going when ND had two starting Dlinemen out with injury, the Oline was unable to create holes and the run game was terrible.
5. At the least, I would like an apology from the ACC for their officiating.

---

Agree, especially with respect to number 1. Keep playing and focus on the next play. Protest after the game through the appropriate channels.

Go!Bears said:

---

calumnus said:

---

KoreAmBear said:

---

59bear said:

---

... not the reason we lost.

---

It very well could have been the reason we lost. They had multiple punts before that and a missed FGA would have been demoralizing. Instead of 7-7 it would have remained 7-0 and then we drove for another FG to make it 10-0 with them reeling. The difference in the game was 7 points. That offsides may have saved the game and possibly the season for them. Although I figure they are really not going anywhere.

But besides that. it was a unicorn kind of bad call. So obvious. Not even open for even an iota of a debate. Not the typical bad call that still can be argued as subjectively feasible. The only explanation for this offsides was that there was an agenda involved. Very similar the agenda that the Pac-12 provided to refs to protect Furd in Big Games v. us when they were nationally relevant.

---

Agreed. We lost by 7, that gave them 7. Moreover, Wilcox teams play much better with the lead. Musgrave would not have gone all pass in the 4th quarter. We would have most likely stuck with our productive ground game. Probably added another score.

---

It is, of course, impossible to say - but it had huge potential to shift the game. Not to mention the referees' unmistakable message (reinforcing the signal sent by that BS celebration penalty): We are not going to let you win. Whether true about the referees or not. It has to have an impact on the players. Looking for a single variable in a 7 point game, I'd start there.

---

I forgot about the "celebration." Pushed his arms out in front of him twice. But, it's ok for a lineman to boost the td scorer way up in the air. In fact, I doubt that any but a few players on either team and a few refs even saw it. But, ONE DID; it was his chance and he took it.

Rushinbear said:

---

Go!Bears said:

---

calumnus said:

---

KoreAmBear said:

---

59bear said:

---

... not the reason we lost.

---

It very well could have been the reason we lost. They had multiple punts before that and a missed FGA would have been demoralizing. Instead of 7-7 it would have remained 7-0 and then we drove for another FG to make it 10-0 with them reeling. The difference in the game was 7 points. That offsides may have saved the game and possibly the season for them. Although I figure they are really not going anywhere.

But besides that. it was a unicorn kind of bad call. So obvious. Not even open for even an iota of a debate. Not the typical bad call that still can be argued as subjectively feasible. The only explanation for this offsides was that there was an agenda involved. Very similar the agenda that the Pac-12 provided to refs to protect Furd in Big Games v. us when they were nationally relevant.

---

Agreed. We lost by 7, that gave them 7. Moreover, Wilcox teams play much better with the lead. Musgrave would not have gone all pass in the 4th quarter. We would have most likely stuck with our productive ground game. Probably added another score.

---

It is, of course, impossible to say - but it had huge potential to shift the game. Not to mention the referees' unmistakable message (reinforcing the signal sent by that BS celebration penalty): We are not going to let you win. Whether true about the referees or not. It has to have an impact on the players. Looking for a single variable in a 7 point game, I'd start there.

---

I forgot about the "celebration." Pushed his arms out in front of him twice. But, it's ok for a lineman to boost the td scorer way up in the air. In fact, I doubt that any but a few players on either team and a few refs even saw it. But, ONE DID; it was his chance and he took it.

---

It was a half-assed cabbage patch, which by the letter of the law is a 'look at me' dance but he barely did anything. Like it was the most subtle almost pointless dance. Wish his teammates had gotten there faster to start the group celebration.

Rushinbear said:

---

Go!Bears said:

---

calumnus said:

---

KoreAmBear said:

---

59bear said:

---

... not the reason we lost.

---

It very well could have been the reason we lost. They had multiple punts before that and a missed FGA would have been demoralizing. Instead of 7-7 it would have remained 7-0 and then we drove for another FG to make it 10-0 with them reeling. The difference in the game was 7 points. That offsides may have saved the game and possibly the season for them. Although I figure they are really not going anywhere.

But besides that. it was a unicorn kind of bad call. So obvious. Not even open for even an iota of a debate. Not the typical bad call that still can be argued as subjectively feasible. The only explanation for this offsides was that there was an agenda involved. Very similar the agenda that the Pac-12 provided to refs to protect Furd in Big Games v. us when they were nationally relevant.

---

Agreed. We lost by 7, that gave them 7. Moreover, Wilcox teams play much better with the lead. Musgrave would not have gone all pass in the 4th quarter. We would have most likely stuck with our productive ground game. Probably added another score.

---

It is, of course, impossible to say - but it had huge potential to shift the game. Not to mention the referees' unmistakable message (reinforcing the signal sent by that BS celebration penalty): We are not going to let you win. Whether true about the referees or not. It has to have an impact on the players. Looking for a single variable in a 7 point game, I'd start there.

---

I forgot about the "celebration." Pushed his arms out in front of him twice. But, it's ok for a lineman to boost the td scorer way up in the air. In fact, I doubt that any but a few players on either team and a few refs even saw it. But, ONE DID; it was his chance and he took it.

---

What keeps a qb from cold-cocking that ref with a "pass." Plummer's got more self-restraint than I might.

Only 10 Cal players on the replay that I am seeing, where is our 11th player #15?

Gee, if only we had a hot head mercurial coach who had not built his program with players on self-control and not getting too high or to low. Gee, then we would be fine.

calftball said:

---

Only 10 Cal players on the replay that I am seeing, where is our 11th player #15?

---

#15 is actually on screen, he is at the top of the line of scrimmage. But you are correct the 11th player is not seen, which has bothered me since the play was called.

UrsineMaximus said:

---

calftball said:

---

Only 10 Cal players on the replay that I am seeing, where is our 11th player #15?

---

#15 is actually on screen, he is at the top of the line of scrimmage. But you are correct the 11th player is not seen, which has bothered me since the play was called.

---

In another thread (or maybe even this one), somebody said that the 11th player (not shown) was #10, Oladejo and that he was way behind the line of scrimmage and the other Cal players (out of sight to the left).

Not surprising that somebody might have thought #15 Hearns was maybe out of sight down at the bottom and perhaps was the one offsides, since he was actually CLEARLY NOT OFFSIDES at the top of the screen (and right in front of the ref), so who would expect him to be the one they identified.

It's weird: Today's Monday and I'm madder about this than I was yesterday. Not supposed to work that way...