The football (and especially the basketball team too) team doesn't have any solid relationship to Cal or its student body.

The above perception is how I feel more and more every season now.

I used to be able to relate to Cal players, albeit through my youthful imagination. Same same for basketball actually. I glowed every time Bobby Dalton or Darrall looked at me courtside. No more Pappy or Joe to look up to and make a personal declaration that some day I'll be a student on the Berkeley campus!

...sigh....I'm getting too old.......


That is, the teams don't represent the school.

I agree. We're in a different era now.

OK, ... Now consider the fact that UC Berkeley has purposely disassociated Itself from the general population of the State of California for over 60 years. Even the people in northern California now really don't care about Cal or It's disdain for having competitive athletic teams for anything but the Olympic sports. You reap what You sow remember?

The team represents the school as well as it has for the last 25 years, which is about as far back as I go. From everything I've read and heard, I think things have been like this for far longer than that.

I think you are correct on something else you said, though. You're getting old and you have nostalgia for a past that never was.

This iteration of the team is a pale imitation of the Tedford team in the 2000s. Unless you are saying the school is also in decline, which I would agree with, albeit much slower than the revenue sports teams

DoubtfulBear said:

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This iteration of the team is a pale imitation of the Tedford team in the 2000s. Unless you are saying the school is also in decline, which I would agree with, albeit much slower than the revenue sports teams

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I think you missed the context provided by the OP.

Edit to elaborate: OP said the team no longer represents the university. In context, I took this to mean that he thinks the athletes are athletes first, students second, and likely that he means they wouldn't be at the university if not for their athletic abilities. I am saying this has been true for 100 years, if not longer. And I'm saying anyone who thinks that this is new is engaging in false nostalgia.

DoubtfulBear said:

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This iteration of the team is a pale imitation of the Tedford team in the 2000s. Unless you are saying the school is also in decline, which I would agree with, albeit much slower than the revenue sports teams

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Not saying I disagree with you but curious your reasons for the academic side in decline?

GMP said:

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DoubtfulBear said:

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This iteration of the team is a pale imitation of the Tedford team in the 2000s. Unless you are saying the school is also in decline, which I would agree with, albeit much slower than the revenue sports teams

---

I think you missed the context provided by the OP.

Edit to elaborate: OP said the team no longer represents the university. In context, I took this to mean that he thinks the athletes are athletes first, students second, and likely that he means they wouldn't be at the university if not for their athletic abilities. I am saying this has been true for 100 years, if not longer. And I'm saying anyone who thinks that this is new is engaging in false nostalgia.

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The difference is the athletes were committed to the school. Now it seems the best players are *only* about the football (and NIL / NFL prospects). I can't grow attached to a freshman "representing my school". If they do well enough another school will throw NIL money at them and suddenly they won't be Cal Bears anymore. Hard to feel a connection to mercenaries.

C'mon BlueBlood. You don't really mean that. You saw the genuine joy among players and fans in a packed Memorial Stadium when Cal beat Stanford this year.

What I feel is a disconnect is between what is promised and what is delivered. Winning will cure that.

This sounds like a nostalgia driven gripefest.

Just because you don't feel connected doesn't mean the students and student athletes dont.

I got to hang out with Coach Wilcox on Monday night at his home.

We did a marathon of Emily the Criminal, Glass Onion: A Knives Out Story on Netflix and The Liberation of L.B. Jones on TCM.

We also listened to his shoegaze vinyl collection while smoking cigars.

Coach is such a fascinating guy. I'm glad I've got to spend time with him and now I'm more connected to the Cal football program than ever.

Dduster said:

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OK, ... Now consider the fact that UC Berkeley has purposely disassociated Itself from the general population of the State of California for over 60 years. Even the people in northern California now really don't care about Cal or It's disdain for having competitive athletic teams for anything but the Olympic sports. You reap what You sow remember?

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What is the general population of California? California is a massive state. There are more Trump voters here than any other state. There are all sorts of different people. I grew up in Los Angeles not knowing Cal and UC Berkeley were the same thing. Heck, I barely even heard of "Cal." Heck, I didn't even know Stanford was in the Bay Area.

GMP said:

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DoubtfulBear said:

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This iteration of the team is a pale imitation of the Tedford team in the 2000s. Unless you are saying the school is also in decline, which I would agree with, albeit much slower than the revenue sports teams

---

I think you missed the context provided by the OP.

Edit to elaborate: OP said the team no longer represents the university. In context, I took this to mean that he thinks the athletes are athletes first, students second, and likely that he means they wouldn't be at the university if not for their athletic abilities. I am saying this has been true for 100 years, if not longer. And I'm saying anyone who thinks that this is new is engaging in false nostalgia.

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Gee, if I'd known that, I wouldn't have been so disappointed when Chuck Muncie or Wesley Walker weren't in my Thermodynamics class . . .

Econ141 said:

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DoubtfulBear said:

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This iteration of the team is a pale imitation of the Tedford team in the 2000s. Unless you are saying the school is also in decline, which I would agree with, albeit much slower than the revenue sports teams

---

Not saying I disagree with you but curious your reasons for the academic side in decline?

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If you look at school rankings over time, we've been treading water/ slightly declining over the last two decades, while our public school rivals UCLA and Michigan are quickly gaining ground. Pretty soon our only advantage will be in NLs which is a vanity metric for most students of the school.

Blueblood said:

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The football (and especially the basketball team too) team doesn't have any solid relationship to Cal or its student body.

The above perception is how I feel more and more every season now.

I used to be able to relate to Cal players, albeit through my youthful imagination. Same same for basketball actually. I glowed every time Bobby Dalton or Darrall looked at me courtside. No more Pappy or Joe to look up to and make a personal declaration that some day I'll be a student on the Berkeley campus!

...sigh....I'm getting too old.......

That is, the teams don't represent the school.

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Just win, baby !

Econ141 said:

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DoubtfulBear said:

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This iteration of the team is a pale imitation of the Tedford team in the 2000s. Unless you are saying the school is also in decline, which I would agree with, albeit much slower than the revenue sports teams

---

Not saying I disagree with you but curious your reasons for the academic side in decline?

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I know this wasn't directed to me, but my take on it is that education is increasingly becoming out of reach for many people. The premise of the state UC system was to serve the educational needs of the California population and to a lesser extent beyond California. It seems this mandate is becoming harder to achieve, a sort of decline in the mission of the system. I think the educational system at large is suffering a decline. When elementary schools resort to burning books and higher education systems charge more than the value of the education it provides you have a problem.

I'd counter that CA has a robust junior college system that is providing cheap, reasonably high level education in most areas and that the quality of education that can be obtained at a CSU is high enough that not going to a UC isn't holding anyone back.

And to rub it in, all of the football playing CSU's had winning football teams this year too:

Fresno State 10-4
San Diego State 7-6
San Jose State 7-5
Sacramento State 12-1

Chabbear said:

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And to rub it in, all of the football playing CSU's had winning football teams this year too:

Fresno State 10-4
San Diego State 7-6
San Jose State 7-5
Sacramento State 12-1

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Re: CSPoly Tech - don't we know their head football coach?

Cal Strong strongly empathize with Blueblood. Given what has occurred the past 13 years, there a strong argument to be made that Cal should focus on academics and turn Memorial Stadium into a giant tomato garden.

As far as dissociative disorder concerned, Adam Duritz from the Counting Crows has this -- and he a strong fan of the Golden Bears. Cal Strong spotted him on the bench press once.

Two of his songs strongly encapsulate his struggles with dissociative disorder. Perhaps they will help Blueblood:

Jumping Jesus --

Hospital - -

I don't disagree with the JC counter. I've taken my share of courses at JC's in California years ago and some of the best classes I ever took were on those campuses. But I still think my point broadly stands. If you have ever saved for your kid's education you realize that it will be the second most expensive thing you are likely to pay for behind your house.

I went to a JC out of high school in 1969 and transferred to Cal in 1971. I got the first two years of college free, except for books, and got all the lower division classes out of the way. I applied to the business school when I transferred (not called Haas then) and had to take three additional classes the first quarter and got into the school in the second quarter. Business was not a popular subject in those counter culture days and there was no problem getting in. And I paid my way with my summer job. Now, of everything that happened to me what could be duplicated now? The JC part. I could have been admitted from high school but saved a ton of money.

You saved $212.50 per quarter, and missed some interesting times.

Bear8 said:

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Re: CSPoly Tech - don't we know their head football coach?

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We sort of know Cal Poly's head football coach, Paul Wulff, who was a 4 year starter at center for Washington St. in the late 80's and went 4-32 in conference, 9-40 overall, in his four years as head football coach of Washington St. from 2008-2011. He grew up in Woodland, so a NorCal guy.

Seems like a nice guy who had hard things in his life. His mom disappeared when Paul was 12 in 1979, almost certainly murdered by Paul's dad, he lived with his mom's brother and his wife until he went off to WSU. His mom's body wasn't identified until 2020 although it was found 48 days after she disappeared and buried as a Jane Doe. On top of that, Paul's first wife dealt with brain cancer for 5 years before dying in 2002.

Wullf was pretty successful at Eastern Washington before taking the WSU job, so maybe he can do okay at Cal Poly in spite of his record at WSU. It will be hard to do worse than his predecessor Beau Baldwin, who we perhaps know better than Wulff and is now the offensive coordinator at Arizona St. Baldwin went 2-17 in the Big Sky Conference (4-21 overall) in his 3 years as HC at Cal Poly.

Bobodeluxe said:

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You saved $212.50 per quarter, and missed some interesting times.

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i found my old checkbook from that year and yes, that was tuition. l also found $5 checks that I cashed to eat for the week from shopping at the Co-op in Berkeley.

God, I hate thread thief. Yes,
rkt88edmo, how's this? This
is a contemporary gripefest.
Feel better?

Larno said:

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I went to a JC out of high school in 1969 and transferred to Cal in 1971. I got the first two years of college free, except for books, and got all the lower division classes out of the way. I applied to the business school when I transferred (not called Haas then) and had to take three additional classes the first quarter and got into the school in the second quarter. Business was not a popular subject in those counter culture days and there was no problem getting in. And I paid my way with my summer job. Now, of everything that happened to me what could be duplicated now? The JC part. I could have been admitted from high school but saved a ton of money.

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Thats what idid.

Bear8 said:

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Re: CSPoly Tech - don't we know their head football coach?

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Not anymore, he now it the OC at ASU.

Blueblood said:

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God, I hate thread thief. Yes,
rkt88edmo, how's this? This
is a contemporary gripefest.
Feel better?

---

Feels almost as good as pooping on your lawn.

MrGPAC shared:

The difference is the athletes were committed to the school. Now it seems the best players are *only* about the football (and NIL / NFL prospects). I can't grow attached to a freshman "representing my school". If they do well enough another school will throw NIL money at them and suddenly they won't be Cal Bears anymore. Hard to feel a connection to mercenaries.

I echo this feeling. While I love Cal football, my passion for it is increasingly declining for just this reason. With every passing year I find myself more passionate about attending Cal Rugby games (and I drive up from L.A. for them). There, players still play for love of game, university, and commitment.

(They also know how to tackle) !!!