OT: Anchor Brewing Company Shutting Down

5,796 Views | 43 Replies | Last: 1 yr ago by DiabloWags
Eastern Oregon Bear
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The oldest craft brewery in the United States is shutting down after 127 years

Farewell to Anchor Steam beer. I drank quite a few bottles when I was young but haven't had one in years. Apparently Sapporo beer bought it a few years back and couldn't figure out how to market a quirky craft beer to the American public. I doubt I'll find it around here, but I'll make the effort to look and see if I can find one last bottle before it's one for good.
Strykur
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Found a 6-pack (canned) at my local corner, Safeway and Costco cleaned out, going to head out this weekend to some local spots to maybe drink the last drafts left.
bearsandgiants
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I took a brewery tour at cal during and sampled their just-released Christmas ale straight from the tap. It was an incredible experience. On fridays; the workers used to drink all day and party with guests in the tasting room. They sold out, started distributing nationwide (which for me was amazing as i could now find steam and even the Christmas ale on the east coast), but they spread themselves too thin. After the Sapporo sale, I believe they started canning. Steam beer suddenly tastes like swill. I got a can at a giants game and couldn't finish it. I think they changed the recipe. I do hope someone will buy the assets and fire it up again, maybe at a different location. All good things come to an end, but this didn't need to happen. They were trying to beat San adams at their own game. They became a macro brew, and I think that's why sales declined. It tasted like garbage in the end, at least to me.
Bobodeluxe
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bearsandgiants said:

I took a brewery tour at cal during and sampled their just-released Christmas ale straight from the tap. It was an incredible experience. On fridays; the workers used to drink all day and party with guests in the tasting room. They sold out, started distributing nationwide (which for me was amazing as i could now find steam and even the Christmas ale on the east coast), but they spread themselves too thin. After the Sapporo sale, I believe they started canning. Steam beer suddenly tastes like swill. I got a can at a giants game and couldn't finish it. I think they changed the recipe. I do hope someone will buy the assets and fire it up again, maybe at a different location. All good things come to an end, but this didn't need to happen. They were trying to beat San adams at their own game. They became a macro brew, and I think that's why sales declined. It tasted like garbage in the end, at least to me.
Blind taste tests indicate that canned beer is superior to bottled when compared to draft. The recipe was tweaked to "improve" the beer, and the brewing moved to a different location. Stuff happens. A good, not great, beer with significant historical importance is now lost. Maybe…
BancroftSteps
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https://shorturl.at/pvwI4

Thurston Howell impersonator leverages generational wealth to invent craft brewing after his aimless studies at Stanford. Haha …. this is classic furdie!

I will miss the Christmas Ale though …..
HearstMining
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Fritz Maytag, who resurrected Anchor Brewing in the 1970s is one of the few Stanfurd grads who's worth a rat's @ss, in my opinion. He originated the craft brewing industry. As the market grew, Millennials demanded new varieties which resulted in crap like raspberry mango sours and quadruple IPAs. Anchor was just too old-school for them. My boys have refrigerators full of $16 4-packs of obscure brews but they still keep some Anchor Steam or Porter for me.

Now, maybe that won't be the case, but I'm optimistic and I hope somebody local buys the recipes and maybe Anchor's unique shallow fermenters to keep brewing the core products. Maytag is in his 80s, so probably too old but maybe Ken Grossman, founder of Sierra Nevada. Or maybe the guys who own Drakes/Triple Rock/Jupiter or Fieldwork Brewing.

I first tasted Anchor Steam at the Cheshire Cat on Northside in 1976. It was a revelation. My idea of the perfect meal is a slice of pizza at The Golden Boy in SF accompanied by a glass of Steam. If you're looking for some, I found both Anchor Steam Beer and Anchor Porter at Grocery Outlet in Folsom yesterday.
sosheezy
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HearstMining said:

Fritz Maytag, who resurrected Anchor Brewing in the 1970s is one of the few Stanfurd grads who's worth a rat's @ss, in my opinion. He originated the craft brewing industry. As the market grew, Millennials demanded new varieties which resulted in crap like raspberry mango sours and quadruple IPAs. Anchor was just too old-school for them. My boys have refrigerators full of $16 4-packs of obscure brews but they still keep some Anchor Steam or Porter for me.

Now, maybe that won't be the case, but I'm optimistic and I hope somebody local buys the recipes and maybe Anchor's unique shallow fermenters to keep brewing the core products. Maytag is in his 80s, so probably too old but maybe Ken Grossman, founder of Sierra Nevada. Or maybe the guys who own Drakes/Triple Rock/Jupiter or Fieldwork Brewing.

I first tasted Anchor Steam at the Cheshire Cat on Northside in 1976. It was a revelation. My idea of the perfect meal is a slice of pizza at The Golden Boy in SF accompanied by a glass of Steam. If you're looking for some, I found both Anchor Steam Beer and Anchor Porter at Grocery Outlet in Folsom yesterday.

https://vinepair.com/booze-news/anchor-brewing-company-sale/

Sierra Nevada and Russian River mentioned in rumors to buy Anchor apparently, but nothing so far. Could well up just be recipes sold at auction. Really going to miss the Christmas Ale.
Oski87
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Stunned and saddened. Growing up in SF, this seems to me to be a death knell of the city I knew. Next thing you know, It's it is going to be gone.
GMP
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Oski87 said:

Stunned and saddened. Growing up in SF, this seems to me to be a death knell of the city I knew. Next thing you know, It's it is going to be gone.

I spent almost a decade going to Anchor Brewing on the last Friday before Christmas with friends for their free tour, kicking off a fun weekend/reunion. Fritz was often there, working, greeting his guests, too, but mostly actually working.

While I was bummed yesterday, I was not stunned. The writing had been on the wall for quite some time. Basically, this was coming the day Fritz sold. Obviously, he could not own it forever. But he kept the place true. Once he left, there was little hope those private investment type would keep things churning. As expected, they got away from what made Anchor great and tried and failed to keep up with the newest fads. The coming failure was even more obvious when a conglomerate (Sapporo) took over a few years ago. When they re-designed the iconic label a couple years back, you might as well have started carving the tombstone. Then, last month they announced they would cease national distribution and would not be releasing the Christmas Ale. Which...***? Anchor's Christmas Ale is a cherished tradition. So, I figured this news would come sooner rather than later, but figured they might make it through the year instead of just two more weeks.

But just as discussion of the demise of the City is overblown, so is the discussion surrounding the closure of Anchor. The brewery has closed and re-opened many times over the last 100+ years. Someone with at least half a brain will realize that the brand and the beer are still marketable and will buy it up and get things going again. Hopefully that person has an appreciation for Anchor Steam and SF and will tend to the brewery like Fritz did.
Strykur
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GMP said:

Oski87 said:

Stunned and saddened. Growing up in SF, this seems to me to be a death knell of the city I knew. Next thing you know, It's it is going to be gone.
The brewery has closed and re-opened many times over the last 100+ years. Someone with at least half a brain will realize that the brand and the beer are still marketable and will buy it up and get things going again. Hopefully that person has an appreciation for Anchor Steam and SF and will tend to the brewery like Fritz did.
Perhaps but the operation was a major money loser and even if Anchor draft is brought back somewhere else it won't be the same.
GMP
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Strykur said:

GMP said:

Oski87 said:

Stunned and saddened. Growing up in SF, this seems to me to be a death knell of the city I knew. Next thing you know, It's it is going to be gone.
The brewery has closed and re-opened many times over the last 100+ years. Someone with at least half a brain will realize that the brand and the beer are still marketable and will buy it up and get things going again. Hopefully that person has an appreciation for Anchor Steam and SF and will tend to the brewery like Fritz did.
Perhaps but the operation was a major money loser and even if Anchor draft is brought back somewhere else it won't be the same.

I don't have the insides of their financials and I doubt you do, either. I doubt the operation was a major money loser for the decades it was owned by Fritz. If the operation became a major money loser, it's because the new owners didn't understand their product or their market - they wasted likely millions developing, brewing, marketing, and distributing dozens of beers over the last decade or so. They wasted likely millions on a re-brand that made their loyal customer base angry. It was a total sh-t show.

As for whether it will be the same, I disagree. Well, I should say I don't necessarily agree. If they buy the recipes (and perhaps even the equipment) and especially if they buy the brewhouse, it would be very easy to make Anchor Steam beer just as it was made for decades. It's simple chemistry.
MSaviolives
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When they came out with those awful rebranded yellow cans I knew something was up. Funny story (to me anyway): There was a bar at the corner of Piedmont and Pleasant Valley in Oakland that for decades had a mosaic window that had the words "Steam Beer" in the mosaic. I drove by that place for years as a kid, always noticing that sign. Finally, many years later, a friend of mine invited me to meet him there for a drink. I went in and ordered an Anchor Steam. They said they don't carry steam beers.
HearstMining
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GMP said:

Strykur said:

GMP said:

Oski87 said:

Stunned and saddened. Growing up in SF, this seems to me to be a death knell of the city I knew. Next thing you know, It's it is going to be gone.
The brewery has closed and re-opened many times over the last 100+ years. Someone with at least half a brain will realize that the brand and the beer are still marketable and will buy it up and get things going again. Hopefully that person has an appreciation for Anchor Steam and SF and will tend to the brewery like Fritz did.
Perhaps but the operation was a major money loser and even if Anchor draft is brought back somewhere else it won't be the same.

I don't have the insides of their financials and I doubt you do, either. I doubt the operation was a major money loser for the decades it was owned by Fritz. If the operation became a major money loser, it's because the new owners didn't understand their product or their market - they wasted likely millions developing, brewing, marketing, and distributing dozens of beers over the last decade or so. They wasted likely millions on a re-brand that made their loyal customer base angry. It was a total sh-t show.

As for whether it will be the same, I disagree. Well, I should say I don't necessarily agree. If they buy the recipes (and perhaps even the equipment) and especially if they buy the brewhouse, it would be very easy to make Anchor Steam beer just as it was made for decades. It's simple chemistry.
Fritz doubtless loves all the romance and lore about brewing, but he'd agree with your statement - it's simple chemistry. If you precisely duplicate the ingredients and the process, you'll get the same excellent product. Unfortunately, craft beer became a fashion business with cool and trendy products crowding out those that are really great. IPAs (how many GenZers even know what IPA means?) are fine, but do we really need Double IPAs and then Triples? I googled "Quintuple IPA" and found some! Crazy - and then there are the sours (strawberry? mango?) - so maybe Fritz saw the handwriting on the wall and that's why he sold when he did. But great products like Anchor and Levi's 501s endure and can come back if handled correctly.

I will disagree on one point - I think buying the brewery is a mistake. Craft brewing is on a downward swing (thank you, hard lemonade, hard seltzer, cocktails, etc) and the brewery has too much capacity with way too high fixed costs. That's why I'd like to see one of the other NorCal brewers buy the recipes and maybe some of the equipment. Grossman at Sierra Nevada would be perfect - he has the historical perspective to treat the brand appropriately, probably has known Fritz for 40 years, strong distribution channels, and he probably has excess brewing capacity in a relatively low-cost location (Chico). Brew the core Anchor products WITH THE OLD LABELING, build the brand back up slowly in NorCal first (major grocery chains, restaurants, concerts, fairs) then up and down the coast.
EDIT - And at Giants/Cal/Stanfurd games!
sosheezy
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MSaviolives said:

When they came out with those awful rebranded yellow cans I knew something was up. Funny story (to me anyway): There was a bar at the corner of Piedmont and Pleasant Valley in Oakland that for decades had a mosaic window that had the words "Steam Beer" in the mosaic. I drove by that place for years as a kid, always noticing that sign. Finally, many years later, a friend of mine invited me to meet him there for a drink. I went in and ordered an Anchor Steam. They said they don't carry steam beers.
The old King's X, birthplace of fantasy football!
MSaviolives
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Yes the King's X. I guess it's a tiki bar now.
rkt88edmo
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There was an article in one of the financial online rags, they basically had losses about equal to sales in the 9-12 MM range for the last 4-5 years, I can only imagine it was due to debt piled on in the deal. I hope someone does come in to keep them alive.

Orange Splash is the best baseball gimmick beer around.
SBGold
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MSaviolives said:

When they came out with those awful rebranded yellow cans I knew something was up. Funny story (to me anyway): There was a bar at the corner of Piedmont and Pleasant Valley in Oakland that for decades had a mosaic window that had the words "Steam Beer" in the mosaic. I drove by that place for years as a kid, always noticing that sign. Finally, many years later, a friend of mine invited me to meet him there for a drink. I went in and ordered an Anchor Steam. They said they don't carry steam beers.
King's X was legendary
Unit2Sucks
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Sad day. In college my dad was friends with a distributor and one day showed up at my apartment in Berkeley with an anchor neon sign which I cherished for years. It's now back in my parents home and I never expected it to outlive the brewery.

I'm not sure if Anchor Steam was ever the best beer but combined with nostalgia and the connection to SF, it was one I always enjoyed. I agree with everyone else that the Christmas Ale was banging.

Hopefully someone revives it and, if so, does it justice.
Big C
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Yeah, I enjoyed the idea of the local Anchor Steam Beer and something about "steam beer" sounded good. However, the 6-7 different times I drank it, it was pretty good, but I didn't love it. Haven't had it in years... coulda just been my beer tastes, at the time.
philly1121
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MSaviolives said:

When they came out with those awful rebranded yellow cans I knew something was up. Funny story (to me anyway): There was a bar at the corner of Piedmont and Pleasant Valley in Oakland that for decades had a mosaic window that had the words "Steam Beer" in the mosaic. I drove by that place for years as a kid, always noticing that sign. Finally, many years later, a friend of mine invited me to meet him there for a drink. I went in and ordered an Anchor Steam. They said they don't carry steam beers.
Whoever was the dude that designed that new label - he should have been fired. It looks like a Twisted Tea label.

I hope they get bought by Sierra Nevada or some other brewery that knows what theyre doing. The Christmas Ale is a tradition in my family. Another good Christmas ale was Pete's Wicked. That was good back in the day.
Oski87
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At the ballpark tonight for one of the last Dead shows….I assume like Anchor that just means until they want to roll it out again. But they did have Anchor on draft and supposedly will have it through the season according to the bartender.
Cal Strong!
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Cal Strong enjoyed it at restaurants until he discovered the furd connection. Then it was dead to Cal Strong.

Now it is dead to everyone. Cal Strong was early.
philbert
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"Dead" you say?


bearsandgiants
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This story always seemed a bit odd, given the popularity of the brand. Didn't realize they were union, and now some employees are trying to buy it and run it as a worker co-op. Would be great if it were employee-owned. Seems like this closure was just an attempt to bust a union as their contract ended in March and they finally had just renegotiated a single-year contract, perhaps with Sapporo negotiating in bad faith knowing they would close the business anyway.

Strykur
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bearsandgiants said:

This story always seemed a bit odd, given the popularity of the brand. Didn't realize they were union, and now some employees are trying to buy it and run it as a worker co-op. Would be great if it were employee-owned. Seems like this closure was just an attempt to bust a union as their contract ended in March and they finally had just renegotiated a single-year contract, perhaps with Sapporo negotiating in bad faith knowing they would close the business anyway.


Don't see this happening as the operation was losing millions of dollars annually (even before the Sapporo takeover) so not sure what capital partners would want to come onboard.
BearGoggles
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bearsandgiants said:

This story always seemed a bit odd, given the popularity of the brand. Didn't realize they were union, and now some employees are trying to buy it and run it as a worker co-op. Would be great if it were employee-owned. Seems like this closure was just an attempt to bust a union as their contract ended in March and they finally had just renegotiated a single-year contract, perhaps with Sapporo negotiating in bad faith knowing they would close the business anyway.



Very strange you would view closing a money-losing company as a union busting measure. No owner literally ends their business to bust a union. They closed because they couldn't make a profit.

I hope the employees do purchase the company. My guess is the first thing they would do is cut costs - including salary/benefits.

bearsandgiants
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BearGoggles said:

bearsandgiants said:

This story always seemed a bit odd, given the popularity of the brand. Didn't realize they were union, and now some employees are trying to buy it and run it as a worker co-op. Would be great if it were employee-owned. Seems like this closure was just an attempt to bust a union as their contract ended in March and they finally had just renegotiated a single-year contract, perhaps with Sapporo negotiating in bad faith knowing they would close the business anyway.



Very strange you would view closing a money-losing company as a union busting measure. No owner literally ends their business to bust a union. They closed because they couldn't make a profit.

I hope the employees do purchase the company. My guess is the first thing they would do is cut costs - including salary/benefits.


https://newrepublic.com/post/172571/starbucks-closing-stores-main-union-stronghold
BearGoggles
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bearsandgiants said:

BearGoggles said:

bearsandgiants said:

This story always seemed a bit odd, given the popularity of the brand. Didn't realize they were union, and now some employees are trying to buy it and run it as a worker co-op. Would be great if it were employee-owned. Seems like this closure was just an attempt to bust a union as their contract ended in March and they finally had just renegotiated a single-year contract, perhaps with Sapporo negotiating in bad faith knowing they would close the business anyway.



Very strange you would view closing a money-losing company as a union busting measure. No owner literally ends their business to bust a union. They closed because they couldn't make a profit.

I hope the employees do purchase the company. My guess is the first thing they would do is cut costs - including salary/benefits.


https://newrepublic.com/post/172571/starbucks-closing-stores-main-union-stronghold

Apparently you don't realize there's a difference between going out of business (the situation with Anchor Steam) vs closing down operations in limited locations/regions.

What Starbucks is doing is arguably "union busting" as you would describe it (not sure I agree, but it is at least possible). Going out of business is not. A company that is out of business doesn't care if the union exists (or not). In this case, it seems undisputed that Anchor Steam has been losing money for years - particularly since covid because a majority of its sales are/were apparently to bars . That is why it is being closed.
bearsandgiants
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BearGoggles said:

bearsandgiants said:

BearGoggles said:

bearsandgiants said:

This story always seemed a bit odd, given the popularity of the brand. Didn't realize they were union, and now some employees are trying to buy it and run it as a worker co-op. Would be great if it were employee-owned. Seems like this closure was just an attempt to bust a union as their contract ended in March and they finally had just renegotiated a single-year contract, perhaps with Sapporo negotiating in bad faith knowing they would close the business anyway.



Very strange you would view closing a money-losing company as a union busting measure. No owner literally ends their business to bust a union. They closed because they couldn't make a profit.

I hope the employees do purchase the company. My guess is the first thing they would do is cut costs - including salary/benefits.


https://newrepublic.com/post/172571/starbucks-closing-stores-main-union-stronghold

Apparently you don't realize there's a difference between going out of business (the situation with Anchor Steam) vs closing down operations in limited locations/regions.

What Starbucks is doing is arguably "union busting" as you would describe it (not sure I agree, but it is at least possible). Going out of business is not. A company that is out of business doesn't care if the union exists (or not). In this case, it seems undisputed that Anchor Steam has been losing money for years - particularly since covid because a majority of its sales are/were apparently to bars . That is why it is being closed.


Anchor is to Sapporo as a cluster of Starbucks outlets is to Starbucks. Maybe at a different scale, but Sapporo isn't going out of business, their annoying little investment with the union staff is. Why not try to sell it? Why run it into the ground and sell off the equipment? It may not just be about union busting but I think there's more to this story, and at least someone is digging.

https://vinepair.com/articles/sapporo-usa-anchor-brewing-liquidation-analysis/
bearsandgiants
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bearsandgiants said:

BearGoggles said:

bearsandgiants said:

BearGoggles said:

bearsandgiants said:

This story always seemed a bit odd, given the popularity of the brand. Didn't realize they were union, and now some employees are trying to buy it and run it as a worker co-op. Would be great if it were employee-owned. Seems like this closure was just an attempt to bust a union as their contract ended in March and they finally had just renegotiated a single-year contract, perhaps with Sapporo negotiating in bad faith knowing they would close the business anyway.



Very strange you would view closing a money-losing company as a union busting measure. No owner literally ends their business to bust a union. They closed because they couldn't make a profit.

I hope the employees do purchase the company. My guess is the first thing they would do is cut costs - including salary/benefits.


https://newrepublic.com/post/172571/starbucks-closing-stores-main-union-stronghold

Apparently you don't realize there's a difference between going out of business (the situation with Anchor Steam) vs closing down operations in limited locations/regions.

What Starbucks is doing is arguably "union busting" as you would describe it (not sure I agree, but it is at least possible). Going out of business is not. A company that is out of business doesn't care if the union exists (or not). In this case, it seems undisputed that Anchor Steam has been losing money for years - particularly since covid because a majority of its sales are/were apparently to bars . That is why it is being closed.


Anchor is to Sapporo as a cluster of Starbucks outlets is to Starbucks. Maybe at a different scale, but Sapporo isn't going out of business, their annoying little investment with the union staff is. Why not try to sell it? Why run it into the ground and sell off the equipment? It may not just be about union busting but I think there's more to this story, and at least someone is digging.

https://vinepair.com/articles/sapporo-usa-anchor-brewing-liquidation-analysis/



Btw, Starbucks has already been fined and ordered to reinstate workers by the NLRB due to recent, proven, union-busting efforts.
DiabloWags
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This has nothing to do with union busting.

The Craft Beer industry is SATURATED (especially on the West Coast) and Anchor had nothing going for it aside from historical significance.

Speakeasy Ales & Lager (which actually produced some good beer like Big Daddy) closed down in Hunter's Point in 2017, drowning in bank debt. The business went into receivership and the Court got rid of the owner and sold off the assets.

And yet I didnt hear of any "hand-ringing" over that closure in SF.



BearGoggles
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DiabloWags said:

This has nothing to do with union busting.

The Craft Beer industry is SATURATED (especially on the West Coast) and Anchor had nothing going for it aside from historical significance.

Speakeasy Ales & Lager (which actually produced some good beer like Big Daddy) closed down in Hunter's Point in 2017, drowning in bank debt. The business went into receivership and the Court got rid of the owner and sold off the assets.

And yet I didnt hear of any "hand-ringing" over that closure in SF.





Since we apparently agree, I may need to reconsider my opinion. J/K.

I read that 70% of Anchor's sales were in bars. so they were crushed by COVID, in addition to competition. That, together with operating in a high cost market like SFO, were pretty big disadvantages.
StillNoStanfurdium
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DiabloWags said:

This has nothing to do with union busting.

The Craft Beer industry is SATURATED (especially on the West Coast) and Anchor had nothing going for it aside from historical significance.

Speakeasy Ales & Lager (which actually produced some good beer like Big Daddy) closed down in Hunter's Point in 2017, drowning in bank debt. The business went into receivership and the Court got rid of the owner and sold off the assets.

And yet I didnt hear of any "hand-ringing" over that closure in SF.




Speakeasy Ales was founded in 1997 vs. Anchor Steam which was founded in 1896. Are you really that surprised that more people had some kind of emotional connection to the local brand that's nearly 130 years old?

Also, as far as I can tell Speakeasy Ales did have to sell and everything but it was just a period of uncertainty from March 2017 to May 2017 when new ownership came in compared to Anchor possibly closing and ceasing production entirely (as of now). The closest you might get is if you remember what people were talking about in April of 2017 for that but nowadays they're still making Speakeasy Ales beer.

There was also that death by a thousands cuts with Anchor where after the Sapporo purchase there were already previously controversial moves like the re-branding which further raised ire or ceasing production of the annual Christmas ale. All those preceding moves (again due to the impact of tradition and history) fomented more reaction.

I just don't get the comparison as they seem like very different situations.
BearSD
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DiabloWags
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StillNoStanfurdium said:

DiabloWags said:

This has nothing to do with union busting.

The Craft Beer industry is SATURATED (especially on the West Coast) and Anchor had nothing going for it aside from historical significance.

Speakeasy Ales & Lager (which actually produced some good beer like Big Daddy) closed down in Hunter's Point in 2017, drowning in bank debt. The business went into receivership and the Court got rid of the owner and sold off the assets.

And yet I didnt hear of any "hand-ringing" over that closure in SF.




Speakeasy Ales was founded in 1997 vs. Anchor Steam which was founded in 1896. Are you really that surprised that more people had some kind of emotional connection to the local brand that's nearly 130 years old?

Also, as far as I can tell Speakeasy Ales did have to sell and everything but it was just a period of uncertainty from March 2017 to May 2017 when new ownership came in compared to Anchor possibly closing and ceasing production entirely (as of now). The closest you might get is if you remember what people were talking about in April of 2017 for that but nowadays they're still making Speakeasy Ales beer.

There was also that death by a thousands cuts with Anchor where after the Sapporo purchase there were already previously controversial moves like the re-branding which further raised ire or ceasing production of the annual Christmas ale. All those preceding moves (again due to the impact of tradition and history) fomented more reaction.

I just don't get the comparison as they seem like very different situations.

I didnt want to spend the time writing a 1200 word "essay" on what made these two situations different. Yes, they arent the same.

That having been said, my three main points remain . . . (1) This has nothing to do with union busting (2) the craft brewing business is extremely competitive and SATURATED on the West Coast and (3) Anchor beer wasnt all that special aside from its historical significance.

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