Searching high and low, I've only seen an ACC Football scheduling "model". But when does the 2024 schedule come out? I've got some trips to schedule!

end of january

Think the ACC is having a scheduling show on Jan 31.

BearoutEast67 said:

---

Searching high and low, I've only seen an ACC Football scheduling "model". But when does the 2024 schedule come out? I've got some trips to schedule!

---

Mickey is working hard right now to maximize potential ratings. It's like something out of the sorcerer's apprentice.

We should know in two weeks.

BearoutEast67 said:

---

Searching high and low, I've only seen an ACC Football scheduling "model". But when does the 2024 schedule come out? I've got some trips to schedule!

---

Related ACC news. Any suggestions as to where there could be a discussion of Cal entering a partial merger of the old Pac 12 and the Mountain West, with details about how that should be done. I have a proposal about how that would work, which would eliminate the brutal mutltiple flights Cal fans would have to endure to get to east coast ACC destinations, which I will post soon. The more flights you have to take to reach your end destinatoin, the more time it would take, given the mutliple flights it would normally take. Just want a good plaace to post that article within BI comments. Tx,

d

Bob

Gobears49 said:

---

BearoutEast67 said:

---

Searching high and low, I've only seen an ACC Football scheduling "model". But when does the 2024 schedule come out? I've got some trips to schedule!

---

Related ACC news. Any suggestions as to where there could be a discussion of Cal entering a partial merger of the old Pac 12 and the Mountain West, with details about how that should be done. I have a proposal about how that would work, which would eliminate the brutal mutltiple flights Cal fans would have to endure to get to east coast ACC destinations, which I will post soon. The more flights you have to take to reach your end destinatoin, the more time it would take, given the mutliple flights it would normally take. Just want a good plaace to post that article within BI comments. Tx,

d

Bob

---

IMO: any proposal that has Cal leaving the ACC soon is, at best, pre-mature. Things have to fail to go back to how they were, or anything close to that.
Spoiler alert: it's not going to "fail" because less fans travel to Pittsburgh vs. going to Pullman. For some of the destinations, there are going to be Cal Alumni on the East Coast that will represent well, thinking the NYC Club Alumni to Syracuse, and the DC Club Alumni to UVA; us Philly Club folks will make some trips too of course...
Conversely, at least in the short run, Miami, Clemson, even FSU coming Cal will put more butts in the seats than a lot of the visiting former Pac-12 schools. It will be interesting to see what the Net gain/loss there is, though missing a yearly trip from the LA schools doesn't help....
But again: I don't believe for a second that anyone was worrying about the travel issues of Cal fans when this deal was made.

mbBear, I agree, though I am optimistic that there will be a significant uptick for the first couple of years from the new conference schools' crowds...game attendance the last few years for the LA schools and the next most attended games:

2023 - avg 38.5
- USC 44k
- Auburn 44k
- WSU 38
- avg 38.5

2022 - avg 38.5
- UCLA 36 (Saturday after T-day)
- Stanford 52
- UNLV 38
- Oregon 37
- UA 37

2021 - avg 37.2
- USC 42
- WSU 40
- OSU 38

2019
- USC 46
- UCD 44
- ASU 47
- OSU 42
- WSU 39
- U North Texas 35

2018
- UCLA 45.7
- Stanford 57
- UNC 42
- UO 43
- UW 39
- CU 34


2017 -
- USC 46.7
- Ole Miss 37
- UA 37
- OSU 35
- WSU 26 - WSU was 8-1 and ranked #8 at the time


I am not sure of how well the new opponents' fan bases travel, but if we can get 2-3 Auburn equivalents in the first visits, then we should be ahead in overall attendance. Another unknown is how many local alumni there are from these schools...

All that said, the biggest determining factor is Cal putting a winner on the field...as the build across 2018 and through 2019 shows, we will draw crowds with a winner. Period.

91Cal said:

---

mbBear, I agree, though I am optimistic that there will be a significant uptick for the first couple of years from the new conference schools' crowds...game attendance the last few years for the LA schools and the next most attended games:

2023 - avg 38.5
- USC 44k
- Auburn 44k
- WSU 38
- avg 38.5

2022 - avg 38.5
- UCLA 36 (Saturday after T-day)
- Stanford 52
- UNLV 38
- Oregon 37
- UA 37

2021 - avg 37.2
- USC 42
- WSU 40
- OSU 38

2019
- USC 46
- UCD 44
- ASU 47
- OSU 42
- WSU 39
- U North Texas 35

2018
- UCLA 45.7
- Stanford 57
- UNC 42
- UO 43
- UW 39
- CU 34


2017 -
- USC 46.7
- Ole Miss 37
- UA 37
- OSU 35
- WSU 26 - WSU was 8-1 and ranked #8 at the time


I am not sure of how well the new opponents' fan bases travel, but if we can get 2-3 Auburn equivalents in the first visits, then we should be ahead in overall attendance. Another unknown is how many local alumni there are from these schools...

All that said, the biggest determining factor is Cal putting a winner on the field...as the build across 2018 and through 2019 shows, we will draw crowds with a winner. Period.

---

A winning team and then marketing our brand more broadly to football fans and families in the East Bay and SF (ie, the BART footprint). Maybe working with BART to develop a Saturday group discount rate (discount exiting at Downtown Berkeley pregame and entering Downtown Berkeley postgame?) with extra long trains and direct SF trains?

Gobears49 said:

---

BearoutEast67 said:

---

Searching high and low, I've only seen an ACC Football scheduling "model". But when does the 2024 schedule come out? I've got some trips to schedule!

---

Related ACC news. Any suggestions as to where there could be a discussion of Cal entering a partial merger of the old Pac 12 and the Mountain West, with details about how that should be done. I have a proposal about how that would work, which would eliminate the brutal mutltiple flights Cal fans would have to endure to get to east coast ACC destinations, which I will post soon. The more flights you have to take to reach your end destinatoin, the more time it would take, given the mutliple flights it would normally take. Just want a good plaace to post that article within BI comments. Tx,

d

Bob

---

F-dat. I live on the East Coast smack dab in the middle of the ACC and can't wait to see a few games on my turf (AKA Bear territory).

Any idea aligning with the PAC-12 now is DOA in terms of Cal keeping major Athletics going.

CALiforniALUM said:

---

Gobears49 said:

---

---

F-dat. I live on the East Coast smack dab in the middle of the ACC and can't wait to see a few games on my turf (AKA Bear territory).

Any idea aligning with the PAC-12 now is DOA in terms of Cal keeping major Athletics going.

---

It's DOA because it wouldn't be "aligning with the Pac-12", it would be aligning with the Mountain West. Let's be honest about what it is: It's a proposal to align with Nevada and San Jose State.

CALiforniALUM said:

---

Gobears49 said:

---

BearoutEast67 said:

---

Searching high and low, I've only seen an ACC Football scheduling "model". But when does the 2024 schedule come out? I've got some trips to schedule!

---

Related ACC news. Any suggestions as to where there could be a discussion of Cal entering a partial merger of the old Pac 12 and the Mountain West, with details about how that should be done. I have a proposal about how that would work, which would eliminate the brutal mutltiple flights Cal fans would have to endure to get to east coast ACC destinations, which I will post soon. The more flights you have to take to reach your end destinatoin, the more time it would take, given the mutliple flights it would normally take. Just want a good plaace to post that article within BI comments. Tx,

d

Bob

---

F-dat. I live on the East Coast smack dab in the middle of the ACC and can't wait to see a few games on my turf (AKA Bear territory).

Any idea aligning with the PAC-12 now is DOA in terms of Cal keeping major Athletics going.

---

It would be great if we can get a big contingent of East Coast (and Southeast) Cal fans to make attending games a tradition. I do think a lot of West Coast fans will be making the trips, far more than would have gone to B1G venues and maybe even more than some of the PAC-12 opponents (other than LA, where we have a huge number of alums).

The weather on the other coast being more extreme than on the left one, scheduling becomes more important. You want to hit the southern schools late in the season (not just to avoid the heat but also the stormy/hurricane season) and the northern ones earlier. so hopefully we get FSU and SMU in November and Pitt in October.

The other thing to look for are the noon EST kickoffs, I guess we will only find out about those next Fall.



Finally, it would really suck to have the Big Game thrown in the middle of the season, this might be a good bellweather as to whether our new overlords in Tobacco Road give a hoot about us.

Cal88 said:

---

The weather on the other coast being more extreme than on the left one, scheduling becomes more important. You want to hit the southern schools late in the season (not just to avoid the heat but also the stormy/hurricane season) and the northern ones earlier. so hopefully we get FSU and SMU in November and Pitt in October.

The other thing to look for are the noon EST kickoffs, I guess we will only find out about those next Fall.



Finally, it would really suck to have the Big Game thrown in the middle of the season, this might be a good bellweather as to whether our new overlords in Tobacco Road give a hoot about us.

---

Good points. I do hope ESPN considers the advantage of having us in one of the later kickoffs on the East Coast in order to attract a West Coast audience.

Cal88 said:

---

The weather on the other coast being more extreme than on the left one, scheduling becomes more important. You want to hit the southern schools late in the season (not just to avoid the heat but also the stormy/hurricane season) and the northern ones earlier. so hopefully we get FSU and SMU in November and Pitt in October.

The other thing to look for are the noon EST kickoffs, I guess we will only find out about those next Fall.



Finally, it would really suck to have the Big Game thrown in the middle of the season, this might be a good bellweather as to whether our new overlords in Tobacco Road give a hoot about us.

---

Knowing that the conference schedule doesn't start until after Sept. 28, weather-wise, the only one that is of concern for me is at Tallahassee.

Get ready for 9am PT kickoffs at Pitt, SMU and Wake.

mbBear said:

---

Cal88 said:

---

The weather on the other coast being more extreme than on the left one, scheduling becomes more important. You want to hit the southern schools late in the season (not just to avoid the heat but also the stormy/hurricane season) and the northern ones earlier. so hopefully we get FSU and SMU in November and Pitt in October.

The other thing to look for are the noon EST kickoffs, I guess we will only find out about those next Fall.



Finally, it would really suck to have the Big Game thrown in the middle of the season, this might be a good bellweather as to whether our new overlords in Tobacco Road give a hoot about us.

---

Knowing that the conference schedule doesn't start until after Sept. 28, weather-wise, the only one that is of concern for me is at Tallahassee.

---

All we know are the dates of the three scheduled non-conference games.

It's possible that an ACC game could be scheduled for Sep. 21. That could be an off week -- there will be two off weeks in the 2024 season because there are 14 Saturdays this year in which to play 12 games. But it's also possible that both off weeks will be later in the season.

BearSD said:

---

mbBear said:

---

Cal88 said:

---

The weather on the other coast being more extreme than on the left one, scheduling becomes more important. You want to hit the southern schools late in the season (not just to avoid the heat but also the stormy/hurricane season) and the northern ones earlier. so hopefully we get FSU and SMU in November and Pitt in October.

The other thing to look for are the noon EST kickoffs, I guess we will only find out about those next Fall.



Finally, it would really suck to have the Big Game thrown in the middle of the season, this might be a good bellweather as to whether our new overlords in Tobacco Road give a hoot about us.

---

Knowing that the conference schedule doesn't start until after Sept. 28, weather-wise, the only one that is of concern for me is at Tallahassee.

---

All we know are the dates of the three scheduled non-conference games.

It's possible that an ACC game could be scheduled for Sep. 21. That could be an off week -- there will be two off weeks in the 2024 season because there are 14 Saturdays this year in which to play 12 games. But it's also possible that both off weeks will be later in the season.

---

I just looked at that last date, so my bad....the 21st would be a wild card for sure...most likely to not be awful in Carolina, but can't say that for sure...

mbBear said:

---

BearSD said:

---

mbBear said:

---

Cal88 said:

---

The weather on the other coast being more extreme than on the left one, scheduling becomes more important. You want to hit the southern schools late in the season (not just to avoid the heat but also the stormy/hurricane season) and the northern ones earlier. so hopefully we get FSU and SMU in November and Pitt in October.

The other thing to look for are the noon EST kickoffs, I guess we will only find out about those next Fall.



Finally, it would really suck to have the Big Game thrown in the middle of the season, this might be a good bellweather as to whether our new overlords in Tobacco Road give a hoot about us.

---

Knowing that the conference schedule doesn't start until after Sept. 28, weather-wise, the only one that is of concern for me is at Tallahassee.

---

All we know are the dates of the three scheduled non-conference games.

It's possible that an ACC game could be scheduled for Sep. 21. That could be an off week -- there will be two off weeks in the 2024 season because there are 14 Saturdays this year in which to play 12 games. But it's also possible that both off weeks will be later in the season.

---

I just looked at that last date, so my bad....the 21st would be a wild card for sure...most likely to not be awful in Carolina, but can't say that for sure...

---

Assuming that there is a sliver of tradition and we get BG the weekend before Thanksgiving, I am hoping that we don't have @Pitt the week before BG or worse, the weekend after Thanksgiving.

Coming this week!

𝘾𝙊𝙈𝙄𝙉𝙂 𝙉𝙀𝙓𝙏 𝙒𝙀𝙀𝙆 🚨

Mark your calendar - the full 2024 ACC Football schedule will be announced Wednesday, January 24 on @ACCNetwork!

🏈 https://t.co/RIdJg0WKF1 pic.twitter.com/KkH7iKbzDE

— ACC Football (@ACCFootball) January 19, 2024

My ideal schedule….

8/31- Davis
9/7- @ Auburn
9/14- SDSU
9/21- Syracuse
9/28- OSU
10/5- @ Pitt
10/12- BYE
10/19- NC State
10/26- Miami
11/2- BYE
11/9- @ FSU
11/15- @ Wake
11/23- Stanford
11/30- @ SMU

Couple notes: I'd love to see SMU become the new UCLA weekend. Thanksgiving in Texas for all our Texas players would be special. Return trip would be great weekend for Texas families

I'd love to have yearly Sat 9am east coast game (once a year) followed by the following Friday night east coast game. Spend the week. Maybe find some open dorms the players to stay at. Online class that week. Cuts down traveling. That would be FSU & Wake this year

Keep Big Game weekend before Thanksgiving

Syracuse as an easier home first ACC win early in the year

BYE week after Miami and before FSU

JB was a Chieftain said:

---

My ideal schedule….

8/31- Davis
9/7- @ Auburn
9/14- SDSU
9/21- Syracuse
9/28- OSU
10/5- @ Pitt
10/12- BYE
10/19- NC State
10/26- Miami
11/2- BYE
11/9- @ FSU
11/15- @ Wake
11/23- Stanford
11/30- @ SMU

Couple notes: I'd love to see SMU become the new UCLA weekend. Thanksgiving in Texas for all our Texas players would be special. Return trip would be great weekend for Texas families

I'd love to have yearly Sat 9am east coast game (once a year) followed by the following Friday night east coast game. Spend the week. Maybe find some open dorms the players to stay at. Online class that week. Cuts down traveling. That would be FSU & Wake this year

Keep Big Game weekend before Thanksgiving

Syracuse as an easier home first ACC win early in the year

BYE week after Miami and before FSU

---

Agree except for the 9 a.m. east coast games. I still remember Maryland when Tedford was coach and how the team sleepwalked through the first 3 quarters.

91Cal said:

---

mbBear said:

---

BearSD said:

---

mbBear said:

---

Cal88 said:

---

The weather on the other coast being more extreme than on the left one, scheduling becomes more important. You want to hit the southern schools late in the season (not just to avoid the heat but also the stormy/hurricane season) and the northern ones earlier. so hopefully we get FSU and SMU in November and Pitt in October.

The other thing to look for are the noon EST kickoffs, I guess we will only find out about those next Fall.



Finally, it would really suck to have the Big Game thrown in the middle of the season, this might be a good bellweather as to whether our new overlords in Tobacco Road give a hoot about us.

---

Knowing that the conference schedule doesn't start until after Sept. 28, weather-wise, the only one that is of concern for me is at Tallahassee.

---

All we know are the dates of the three scheduled non-conference games.

It's possible that an ACC game could be scheduled for Sep. 21. That could be an off week -- there will be two off weeks in the 2024 season because there are 14 Saturdays this year in which to play 12 games. But it's also possible that both off weeks will be later in the season.

---

I just looked at that last date, so my bad....the 21st would be a wild card for sure...most likely to not be awful in Carolina, but can't say that for sure...

---

Assuming that there is a sliver of tradition and we get BG the weekend before Thanksgiving, I am hoping that we don't have @Pitt the week before BG or worse, the weekend after Thanksgiving.

---

I guess I am less worried about the cold than I am the heat, probably because Cal has gone to the Northwest, especially Pullman, at not great times.
But, that's a fair concern....fyi: average high temp for Pittsburgh for November (2010-2019) is 51....

southseasbear said:

---

JB was a Chieftain said:

---

My ideal schedule….

8/31- Davis
9/7- @ Auburn
9/14- SDSU
9/21- Syracuse
9/28- OSU
10/5- @ Pitt
10/12- BYE
10/19- NC State
10/26- Miami
11/2- BYE
11/9- @ FSU
11/15- @ Wake
11/23- Stanford
11/30- @ SMU

Couple notes: I'd love to see SMU become the new UCLA weekend. Thanksgiving in Texas for all our Texas players would be special. Return trip would be great weekend for Texas families

I'd love to have yearly Sat 9am east coast game (once a year) followed by the following Friday night east coast game. Spend the week. Maybe find some open dorms the players to stay at. Online class that week. Cuts down traveling. That would be FSU & Wake this year

Keep Big Game weekend before Thanksgiving

Syracuse as an easier home first ACC win early in the year

BYE week after Miami and before FSU

---

Agree except for the 9 a.m. east coast games. I still remember Maryland when Tedford was coach and how the team sleepwalked through the first 3 quarters.

---

This is going to come up, no doubt....folks were critical of Tedford not taking the team until Friday, but also, that day was unusually humid for that time of year, and we really felt it sitting in the stands (despite being East Coast residents.)
I think Cal has since performed okay at Noon, like at N. Carolina? The only reason to be optimistic, if that's even the right word: the HUT levels, meaning people with TV's on, go up during the day....9a on the West Coast doesn't do the Networks any favors....

I believe I get the ACC channel on Fubo. Anyone else reacting while watching the Pac12 Network when you see their current commercials encouraging folks to watch Pac12 Football? I can't help responding "Not anymore" each time.

southseasbear said:

---

JB was a Chieftain said:

---

My ideal schedule….

8/31- Davis
9/7- @ Auburn
9/14- SDSU
9/21- Syracuse
9/28- OSU
10/5- @ Pitt
10/12- BYE
10/19- NC State
10/26- Miami
11/2- BYE
11/9- @ FSU
11/15- @ Wake
11/23- Stanford
11/30- @ SMU

Couple notes: I'd love to see SMU become the new UCLA weekend. Thanksgiving in Texas for all our Texas players would be special. Return trip would be great weekend for Texas families

I'd love to have yearly Sat 9am east coast game (once a year) followed by the following Friday night east coast game. Spend the week. Maybe find some open dorms the players to stay at. Online class that week. Cuts down traveling. That would be FSU & Wake this year

Keep Big Game weekend before Thanksgiving

Syracuse as an easier home first ACC win early in the year

BYE week after Miami and before FSU

---

Agree except for the 9 a.m. east coast games. I still remember Maryland when Tedford was coach and how the team sleepwalked through the first 3 quarters.

---

Again 9am is not ideal but it's going to happen. Once a year isn't the worst. Breakfast & Bears!

Away games with 9 am PT starts offset by 7:30 pm PT home game starts? Yay

southseasbear said:

---

JB was a Chieftain said:

---

My ideal schedule….

8/31- Davis
9/7- @ Auburn
9/14- SDSU
9/21- Syracuse
9/28- OSU
10/5- @ Pitt
10/12- BYE
10/19- NC State
10/26- Miami
11/2- BYE
11/9- @ FSU
11/15- @ Wake
11/23- Stanford
11/30- @ SMU

Couple notes: I'd love to see SMU become the new UCLA weekend. Thanksgiving in Texas for all our Texas players would be special. Return trip would be great weekend for Texas families

I'd love to have yearly Sat 9am east coast game (once a year) followed by the following Friday night east coast game. Spend the week. Maybe find some open dorms the players to stay at. Online class that week. Cuts down traveling. That would be FSU & Wake this year

Keep Big Game weekend before Thanksgiving

Syracuse as an easier home first ACC win early in the year

BYE week after Miami and before FSU

---

Agree except for the 9 a.m. east coast games. I still remember Maryland when Tedford was coach and how the team sleepwalked through the first 3 quarters.

---

Yea, but we also had 9:00 am games against Minnesota and Ole Miss and did all right.

bluehenbear said:

---

Away games with 9 am PT starts offset by 7:30 pm PT home game starts? Yay

---

2:15 average starting time? What's to complain about?

Happy that some of you are excited about this, however now that Pac-8/10/12 football is officially dead, I'm slowly but steadily losing enthusiasm, especially given that the ACC won't even exist in a few years, and who knows what will become of Cal football? Just can't get excited about sitting in Memorial Stadium, looking west through the Golden Gate and seeing the Pacific ocean, and watching Cal play a league game in the Atlantic Coast Conference...

Marty said:

---

Happy that some of you are excited about this, however now that Pac-8/10/12 football is officially dead, I'm slowly but steadily losing enthusiasm, especially given that the ACC won't even exist in a few years, and who knows what will become of Cal football? Just can't get excited about sitting in Memorial Stadium, looking west through the Golden Gate and seeing the Pacific ocean, and watching Cal play a league game in the Atlantic Coast Conference...

---

No one is excited about the demise of the Pac, but jeez man, time to replace the 8-track in the old Pacer or put down the Walkman and look forward to making the best of the reality ahead. I'm loving the idea of (re-)connecting with east coast alumni, seeing new towns and creating new rivalries even if only for a short while. Go Bears!

Marty said:

---

Happy that some of you are excited about this, however now that Pac-8/10/12 football is officially dead, I'm slowly but steadily losing enthusiasm, especially given that the ACC won't even exist in a few years, and who knows what will become of Cal football? Just can't get excited about sitting in Memorial Stadium, looking west through the Golden Gate and seeing the Pacific ocean, and watching Cal play a league game in the Atlantic Coast Conference...

---

Marty - I'm bummed too. Those ACC opponents are going to feel like non-conference games at first. But looking back, some of the most memorable games I've attended have been non-conference ones. Maybe you saw Craig Morton duel Roger Staubach. Or Cal stop a top-10 ranked Syracuse team in 1968. Or the 2007 win against Tennessee. Think of an exquisite October day, walking through campus or past places you lived as a student, maybe seeing old friends you only see at games. Maybe there will be 60k fans or maybe just 35k ( per Wikipedia, there were only 27k fans for Tedfords first home game against Baylor); who cares as long as you're there? As we get older, we don't want to eliminate things that gave us joy, we want to double-down to retain them as well as find new ones. Hang in there, man!

DISCLAIMER: I don't believe this ACC affiliation is going to last and I definitely don't think Cal will compete for the national championship any time in the foreseeable future, but I can live with that.

I think the ACC sticks around. Most of the schools are academic schools that are not quite good enough for the Big 10. FSU is really the only blue blood program. If they leave it hurts. But there is no real additional expansion going to happen. From the Big 10 and SEC. Peak TV is already done.

JB was a Chieftain said:

---

My ideal schedule….

8/31- Davis
9/7- @ Auburn
9/14- SDSU
9/21- Syracuse
9/28- OSU
10/5- @ Pitt
10/12- BYE
10/19- NC State
10/26- Miami
11/2- BYE
11/9- @ FSU
11/15- @ Wake
11/23- Stanford
11/30- @ SMU

Couple notes: I'd love to see SMU become the new UCLA weekend. Thanksgiving in Texas for all our Texas players would be special. Return trip would be great weekend for Texas families

I'd love to have yearly Sat 9am east coast game (once a year) followed by the following Friday night east coast game. Spend the week. Maybe find some open dorms the players to stay at. Online class that week. Cuts down traveling. That would be FSU & Wake this year

Keep Big Game weekend before Thanksgiving

Syracuse as an easier home first ACC win early in the year

BYE week after Miami and before FSU

---

Syracuse is the coldest place in the ACC, but they play in a domed stadium, so it doesn't matter when we travel there in terms of game conditions. However as a roadie, you want that game to fall in the peak foliage season early to mid-October, gorgeous colors, would make a great road trip for a west coast Cal fan.

The ACC is a lifeboat. It is an opportunity. If our program is going to survive we need to embrace the opportunity. Enjoy traveling to great locations back east. Support Cal Legends.

If Cal fans travel well, if we can win more ACC games than we lose, upset Clemson and FSU regularly and earn some national respect, get our ratings up with the help of ESPN, improve our brand and attendance, then the next round of realignment if the ACC really is broken up we will have a shot at being back in a West Coast pod with the LA schools, UW and Oregon.

Or we can mope about the end of the PAC-12, complain about the way things are with no hope or plan for improvement and watch our program die.

Dude - You're perfectly entitled to your perspective, and I respect it. perhaps I'll adjust. But save the condescending ageism for some other place and time.