The weather today was what you would probably best called "unsettled". Several short burst of rain swept through, and the stadium announcer informed us that in the possible event of thunderstorms approaching within 10 miles, the coaches would decide whether to stop the game and evacuate the field. Luckily that never happened, while the precipitation and wind largely ceased after half time.

Cal jumped off to a good start, notching two tries within the first 20 minutes. I think the rain was part of the problem for St. Marys, as they botched 3 successive lineouts, giving Cal extra possessions. St. Marys finally scored a try, and the game became exciting again. Cal scored another try to go up 17-7 and then, I think, the Gaels notched another one. Around this time, a St. Marys player got a yellow card (for high tackle), so they were down a player for 15 minutes. Towards the end of the half, Cal had the ball close to scoring try #4, but lost the ball near the goal line. It looked like St. Marys dodged a bullet, but the Bears immediately got the ball back and made their 4th try of the day, putting the halftime score at 24-14.

But as the weather cleared for the 2nd half, so did St. Marys' play. The scored two more tries in the first 10 minutes of the 2nd half to take the lead 26-24. Cal scored next to go up 31-26. With the clock winding down, St. Marys scored another try ... except they didn't. The ref ruled that a penalty just prior to that score had to be assessed (against the Bears), so the Gaels got another chance on offense in good scoring position. This time they capitalized and scored a try at almost dead center of the field. This made the score 31-31, with the Gaels now having an easy conversion attempt for 2 points ... which they missed. With under 5 minutes to go and the game tied, it was crunch time, and St, Marys made the most of it, scoring a try (with conversion) with only 3 minutes left in regulation 38-31. The clock went to zero time but play kept on going. Cal got the ball back and for the next 3-5 minutes kept at it, trying to ram the ball into goal. Unfortunately, they couldn't do it, so St. Marys came away the winners.

Cal suffered a LOT of missed opportunities due to penalties - otherwise I'd say they played well. St. Mary's certainly is an excellent squad, and although I didn't like the outcome, I did like the idea of being treated to some A-1 rugby playing. The reserve squads were scheduled to face off afterwards, but I didn't stay around to see them play.

Demote rugby to a club sport!

Left at halftime. Didn't dress properly. Met the big kids mother Finley which was the highlight. We both shared our mutual non-understanding of rhe rules and/or strategies

go play in traffic

Wow why so angry?

oskiswifeshusband said:

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Wow why so angry?

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Maybe because this is the 900th off-topic thread on the football board not labeled OT?

I'm ok with non football stuff on this board. Otherwise I have no clue what's happening in the cal sports scene. At this point I just go to or find events where we win.

I thought that by beginning a posting with the title "Rugby results...", it was pretty clearly not dealing with gridiron football, and thus adding an "OT" was superfluous. Of course, one may argue that rugby IS a form of football, and that (at least in the past) the same players played in both sports, and (historically) rugby replaced gridiron football for a short time when the latter sport was considered too violent. Regardless, I intend to continue posting about rugby football on this forum because: 1). It is a form of football, 2) rugby football is by and large active when gridiron football is quiescent, and 3) there is not a surge of postings about rugby football that overwhelm discussions about gridiron football, or any other topic posted here.

Go Bears!

chalcidbear said:

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I thought that by beginning a posting with the title "Rugby results...", it was pretty clearly not dealing with gridiron football, and thus adding an "OT" was superfluous. Of course, one may argue that rugby IS a form of football, and that (at least in the past) the same players played in both sports, and (historically) rugby replaced gridiron football for a short time when the latter sport was considered too violent. Regardless, I intend to continue posting about rugby football on this forum because: 1). It is a form of football, 2) rugby football is by and large active when gridiron football is quiescent, and 3) there is not a surge of postings about rugby football that overwhelm discussions about gridiron football, or any other topic posted here.

Go Bears!

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It's ok. I just hate rugby, and was venting. Go Bears.

So St. Mary's is better than us in basketball AND rugby? Good thing they dropped football.

That's funny. The jury is out on me with Rugby but I have immense respect for Clark. I wish I knew more about the rules. But I also didn't like olives as a kid, but knew instinctively that I should develop a taste. Now I'm an olive lover. I'm figuring if I go to enough games with someone that can explain the rules I'll be fine. Walked many foreigners thru the arcane and confusing football rules at Memorial.

For rugby rules while you get accustomed to the game it can be confusing as in the US we're very well seasoned with American football rules so coming to grips with rugby rules at first can be frustrating, but build on the basics and you'll really gain an more solid appreciation for the game.

Some high level basics of rugby to get started:

• There are multiple versions ("15s" [aka - "Rugby Union" and "7s") - there is also a different version call "Rugby League" which is historically more blue collar whereas the version Cal plays "Rugby Union" is historically associated with more traditionally elite schools.
• Two 40 min. halves with no clock stop unless ref. calls to stop the clock for a head/serious injury (there are no time outs), review or other ref. reason (to speak with the captains). Note that after "fulltime" - when the clock is at 80 min. - unless there is a penalty or turnover or unless the team with the lead kicks the ball out of bounds, play can continue (confusing for American football fans).
• Scoring - 5 pts. for a "try" (touchdown in American football - EXCEPT to get the try you must use downward pressure on the ball in the try zone (no "breaking the plane" of the try zone) - sometimes called "dotting the ball down". 2 pts. for a conversion - conversion takes place at angle where the ball is "dotted down" so the try scorer will always try to get as close to the center of the posts as possible when scoring a try. 3 pts. for a "drop goal" - kick that goes between uprights while on offense (kind of rare these days, but does happen).
• When scoring the team that scored gets to receive the kickoff (counter to American football) as in 15s rugby receiving the kickoff deep in your end is typically a disadvantage and you will see some "kick tennis" where each team kicks to the other team from deep in their end looking to ultimately gain a territory advantage from the other team's mistake (catching the ball and going out of bounds (called "into touch").
• Note there is no "knee" or "elbow" "play dead" rules in rugby - the equivalent would be "being held in the tackle" which ends the run and the tackled player must release the ball. A runner, can fall down, slip etc. or even be contacted by an opposing player but unless he is "held in the tackle" he can continue running. This can be confusing for American football fans.
• No forward passing (laterals - called a "flat" pass or backward passing allowed), no going out of bounds (called going into "touch") on offense (or other team gets the ball for a 'lineout' at that spot, no leaving the feet for a tackle, no blocking for your runner on offense (this is called 'obstruction'), no tackles without "wrapping up" meaning you have to use both arms to tackle, no high/"seat belt" tackles, no shoulder to head contact, no tackling a player who's feet is not on the ground, no tackling a player without the ball, no tipping the ball away with 1 hand when the other team has the ball (you MUST be confident you can intercept the ball or it is a penalty.
• To move the ball ahead - you must use laterals, called "flat passes", or backward passes are typical, but you can kick ahead and recover the ball (as long as the ball doesn't go out of bounds).
• A fumble must be backward for a team on offense to retain the ball - any fumble which moves the slightest bit forward is a "knock on" and the other team gets the ball for a scrum at that point of the knock on or "knock" for short.
• One confusing aspect is when fouls (penalties) are called the ref. will call it "to" the team getting the benefit of the penalty whereas in American football the penalty is called on the team committing the penalty. So for example - if St. Mary's commits a penalty it will be penalty to Cal, and NOT penalty on St. Mary's. This always trips me up. For the most part when the team gets a penalty in their favor they can elect to - a). kick the ball as far ahead as possible out of bounds and then has a 'line out' (where they lift the players to catch the ball [ball must be thrown perpendicular to the sideline which is call the touch line I think, and come down with the ball, b) they can elect to kick between the uprights for 3 pts. if close enough, or c). they can elect for a "scrum" which 'sucks' in alot of players to then hope to pass the ball out to runners hopefully with more space to run/advance the ball.
• When a runner is "held in the tackle" - tackled to the ground the player with the ball must release the ball right away and the tackler must release the tackled player right away - penalties around not releasing the ball or tackler are judgement calls and are often the most common penalties called.
• When running with the ball and then getting tackled the runner needs "support" meaning other teammates close by as he must release the ball so if "isolated" the defense can come over the ball and turn the ball over.
• A player can only leave the game and return if there is an HIA (head injury assessment that clears the player to return, if there is blood (to get stitched or cleaned up), - so an ankle or knee issue will be wrapped by the trainer while play continues on the field. If a player is subbed out the player cannot return/is done for the game. In a national championship game (Cal vs. BYU) back around 2009-2010 played at Furd, I saw a Cal player jogging near the sideline (called "touch" line) in parallel with a jogging trainer and as they went by me I could see our player's little finger was 90 degrees perpendicular to the other fingers so was dislocated - the trainer "popped" it back straight and the player darted back to the action. That is rugby.
• You'll note there is only 1 ref. and the ref. will actually advise the teams against penalties during the game - will firmly tell the scrum half to "use it" - meaning to kick the ball and not delay, will advise on the scrum front row players position, will warn the captains about an issue before issuing a "card" - yellow for a moderate infraction - 10 min. in the "sin" bin, and completely out of the game for a "red" card for a very serious infraction causing high potential for injury.

Reading the above can perhaps help with the basics to make it more enjoyable to watch rugby. The foundation is quite simple, and don't get put off by the nuanced rules - many of while baffle me after seriously watching rugby for over 20 years!

There are innumerable nuanced rules which take more time to appreciate and understand, but the above will help make the game more interesting for sure to watch. More nuanced rules include rules around "poaching" the ball (you must clearly release the tackled player before trying to poach the ball and can only poach by going directly (not from the side) and supporting your full body weight (both feet on the ground), hands in the ruck, kicking out on the "full". Another confusing aspect is when a runner gets close to the try zone and is being tackled short of the end zone (called the "try zone") and even fully down on the field if he can he is allowed to stretch the ball out to touch the try zone or at least the white stripe start of the try zone and this will score the try - however "second" movements are not allowed - just one fluidly executed stretch attempt
Enjoy - it is an amazing game!! It's somewhat ruined my appreciation for American football as our football has so many stoppages. delays, timeouts, etc.

Go Bears!!

One other important law to remember (aside from the fact they are "laws", not "rules"), is offside. When a team is on offense (ie: has possession of the ball) NO PLAYER from that team may participate in play if they are ahead of the ball carrier. That is offside and results in the ball being turned over to the other team. If a player finds him/herself ahead of a team mate with the ball, s/he must retire as quickly as possible with as little interference as possible, until they are behind the ball carrier again. This has two major impacts - no forward passes, and NO BLOCKING for the ball carrier, both of which consequences tend to reduce injuries compared to gridiron football.

Just a really tremendous match between 2 teams I think are definitely top 5. St. Marys has risen to that top 5 level based on going undefeated this year. They have impressive wins over Grand Canyon and BYU......and now Cal.

The Bears have had an uncharacteristically "off" season, losing 3 regular season matches. I can't remember a time when they did that. But it is not so much a function of Cal degrading as it is other teams upping their game, particularly on the east coast.

Rugby Ossi, can you explain the removal of the Gaels try late in the game that led to what I think was SMC's last lineout? I drove 5 1/2 hours to get home by 10pm and watched that match again on the replay. I tried to review that phase 3 or 4 times and I STILL do not understand what happened there. First, I thought that the SMC "knock on" went sideways or even backwards. But someone said Cal committed an intentional knock on? Nothing in that whole phase made sense to me.

Credit to SMC for keeping that grass field in good shape. There was very little slippage and the field held up really well given the conditions.

The Bears road to a possible national title will be difficult. Navy is still really good. BYU strikes me as a team that can surprise. SMC is excellent. Lindenwood and Davenport have played some ambitious contests, Life is always up there, and Army looked impressive against the Bears. This is the best top 10 I've seen in a long time.

Rugby Oski! said:

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For rugby rules while you get accustomed to the game it can be confusing as in the US we're very well seasoned with American football rules so coming to grips with rugby rules at first can be frustrating, but build on the basics and you'll really gain an more solid appreciation for the game.

Some high level basics of rugby to get started:

• There are multiple versions ("15s" [aka - "Rugby Union" and "7s") - there is also a different version call "Rugby League" which is historically more blue collar whereas the version Cal plays "Rugby Union" is historically associated with more traditionally elite schools.
• Two 40 min. halves with no clock stop unless ref. calls to stop the clock for a head/serious injury (there are no time outs), review or other ref. reason (to speak with the captains). Note that after "fulltime" - when the clock is at 80 min. - unless there is a penalty or turnover or unless the team with the lead kicks the ball out of bounds, play can continue (confusing for American football fans).
• Scoring - 5 pts. for a "try" (touchdown in American football - EXCEPT to get the try you must use downward pressure on the ball in the try zone (no "breaking the plane" of the try zone) - sometimes called "dotting the ball down". 2 pts. for a conversion - conversion takes place at angle where the ball is "dotted down" so the try scorer will always try to get as close to the center of the posts as possible when scoring a try. 3 pts. for a "drop goal" - kick that goes between uprights while on offense (kind of rare these days, but does happen).
• When scoring the team that scored gets to receive the kickoff (counter to American football) as in 15s rugby receiving the kickoff deep in your end is typically a disadvantage and you will see some "kick tennis" where each team kicks to the other team from deep in their end looking to ultimately gain a territory advantage from the other team's mistake (catching the ball and going out of bounds (called "into touch").
• Note there is no "knee" or "elbow" "play dead" rules in rugby - the equivalent would be "being held in the tackle" which ends the run and the tackled player must release the ball. A runner, can fall down, slip etc. or even be contacted by an opposing player but unless he is "held in the tackle" he can continue running. This can be confusing for American football fans.
• No forward passing (laterals - called a "flat" pass or backward passing allowed), no going out of bounds (called going into "touch") on offense (or other team gets the ball for a 'lineout' at that spot, no leaving the feet for a tackle, no blocking for your runner on offense (this is called 'obstruction'), no tackles without "wrapping up" meaning you have to use both arms to tackle, no high/"seat belt" tackles, no shoulder to head contact, no tackling a player who's feet is not on the ground, no tackling a player without the ball, no tipping the ball away with 1 hand when the other team has the ball (you MUST be confident you can intercept the ball or it is a penalty.
• To move the ball ahead - you must use laterals, called "flat passes", or backward passes are typical, but you can kick ahead and recover the ball (as long as the ball doesn't go out of bounds).
• A fumble must be backward for a team on offense to retain the ball - any fumble which moves the slightest bit forward is a "knock on" and the other team gets the ball for a scrum at that point of the knock on or "knock" for short.
• One confusing aspect is when fouls (penalties) are called the ref. will call it "to" the team getting the benefit of the penalty whereas in American football the penalty is called on the team committing the penalty. So for example - if St. Mary's commits a penalty it will be penalty to Cal, and NOT penalty on St. Mary's. This always trips me up. For the most part when the team gets a penalty in their favor they can elect to - a). kick the ball as far ahead as possible out of bounds and then has a 'line out' (where they lift the players to catch the ball [ball must be thrown perpendicular to the sideline which is call the touch line I think, and come down with the ball, b) they can elect to kick between the uprights for 3 pts. if close enough, or c). they can elect for a "scrum" which 'sucks' in alot of players to then hope to pass the ball out to runners hopefully with more space to run/advance the ball.
• When a runner is "held in the tackle" - tackled to the ground the player with the ball must release the ball right away and the tackler must release the tackled player right away - penalties around not releasing the ball or tackler are judgement calls and are often the most common penalties called.
• When running with the ball and then getting tackled the runner needs "support" meaning other teammates close by as he must release the ball so if "isolated" the defense can come over the ball and turn the ball over.
• A player can only leave the game and return if there is an HIA (head injury assessment that clears the player to return, if there is blood (to get stitched or cleaned up), - so an ankle or knee issue will be wrapped by the trainer while play continues on the field. If a player is subbed out the player cannot return/is done for the game. In a national championship game (Cal vs. BYU) back around 2009-2010 played at Furd, I saw a Cal player jogging near the sideline (called "touch" line) in parallel with a jogging trainer and as they went by me I could see our player's little finger was 90 degrees perpendicular to the other fingers so was dislocated - the trainer "popped" it back straight and the player darted back to the action. That is rugby.
• You'll note there is only 1 ref. and the ref. will actually advise the teams against penalties during the game - will firmly tell the scrum half to "use it" - meaning to kick the ball and not delay, will advise on the scrum front row players position, will warn the captains about an issue before issuing a "card" - yellow for a moderate infraction - 10 min. in the "sin" bin, and completely out of the game for a "red" card for a very serious infraction causing high potential for injury.

Reading the above can perhaps help with the basics to make it more enjoyable to watch rugby. The foundation is quite simple, and don't get put off by the nuanced rules - many of while baffle me after seriously watching rugby for over 20 years!

There are innumerable nuanced rules which take more time to appreciate and understand, but the above will help make the game more interesting for sure to watch. More nuanced rules include rules around "poaching" the ball (you must clearly release the tackled player before trying to poach the ball and can only poach by going directly (not from the side) and supporting your full body weight (both feet on the ground), hands in the ruck, kicking out on the "full". Another confusing aspect is when a runner gets close to the try zone and is being tackled short of the end zone (called the "try zone") and even fully down on the field if he can he is allowed to stretch the ball out to touch the try zone or at least the white stripe start of the try zone and this will score the try - however "second" movements are not allowed - just one fluidly executed stretch attempt
Enjoy - it is an amazing game!! It's somewhat ruined my appreciation for American football as our football has so many stoppages. delays, timeouts, etc.

Go Bears!!

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thanks! I'll print this and use it as night time reading. Much obliged. One of the very few multi-paragraphed reads I I hope to find value from the Bearinsiders