Only the end results and money
https://npr.org/2024/04/24/1246829554/reggie-bush-heisman-trophy-reinstated
https://npr.org/2024/04/24/1246829554/reggie-bush-heisman-trophy-reinstated
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In todays NCAA rules don't matter
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Last: 7 days ago by philly1121
Tosh will be honored by the haul o' fame this year as the Peet's Paper Cup Bagman of the Century.
Bush's Heisman should not have been taken away in the first place.
Many other Heisman winners were "paid to play", and some other winners did far worse things than take some money, and none of their Heismans were ever threatened, much less taken away.
Exhibit A:
Many other Heisman winners were "paid to play", and some other winners did far worse things than take some money, and none of their Heismans were ever threatened, much less taken away.
Exhibit A:
— The Heisman Trophy (@HeismanTrophy) April 11, 2024
BearSD said:
Bush's Heisman should not have been taken away in the first place.
Many other Heisman winners were "paid to play", and some other winners did far worse things than take some money, and none of their Heismans were ever threatened, much less taken away.
Exhibit A:— The Heisman Trophy (@HeismanTrophy) April 11, 2024
Were they caught?
If the fans are saps, let any rules lapse.oski003 said:BearSD said:
Bush's Heisman should not have been taken away in the first place.
Many other Heisman winners were "paid to play", and some other winners did far worse things than take some money, and none of their Heismans were ever threatened, much less taken away.
Exhibit A:— The Heisman Trophy (@HeismanTrophy) April 11, 2024
Were they caught?
BearSD said:
Bush's Heisman should not have been taken away in the first place.
Many other Heisman winners were "paid to play", and some other winners did far worse things than take some money, and none of their Heismans were ever threatened, much less taken away.
Ah yes, moral relativism at its finest.
Fact is that Reggie Bush cheated and got caught. His Heisman was deservedly taken away for cheating under the rules that were in place during his playing days.
BearBoarBlarney said:BearSD said:
Bush's Heisman should not have been taken away in the first place.
Many other Heisman winners were "paid to play", and some other winners did far worse things than take some money, and none of their Heismans were ever threatened, much less taken away.
Ah yes, moral relativism at its finest.
Fact is that Reggie Bush cheated and got caught. His Heisman was deservedly taken away for cheating under the rules that were in place during his playing days.
how did he cheat? he took benefits that were impermissible by the ncaa at the time.
typical whining on this board. bush should never have lost his trophy and was an amazing college player
Not that he took benefits per se but the "benefits" he did receive were comically minor compared to the 8-figure NIL deals and Lambos that are being thrown at recruits before even coming onto campus these days.flounder said:how did he cheat? he took benefits that were impermissible by the ncaa at the time.BearBoarBlarney said:Ah yes, moral relativism at its finest.BearSD said:
Bush's Heisman should not have been taken away in the first place.
Many other Heisman winners were "paid to play", and some other winners did far worse things than take some money, and none of their Heismans were ever threatened, much less taken away.
Fact is that Reggie Bush cheated and got caught. His Heisman was deservedly taken away for cheating under the rules that were in place during his playing days.
I was never clear on whether Bush actually received anything of value impermissibly. I have always heard it was his family that supposedly got something and that he denied knowing about it and did not receive anything himself. This Wikipedia article indicates he received unspecified "lavish gifts" including a limousine ride to the Heisman Trophy ceremony. If that's really all they could prove he got, then the whole thing sounds like a farce and/or vendetta against USC.
Wikipedia: On June 10, 2010, the NCAA announced major sanctions against USC. The NCAA found that Bush had received lavish gifts from Lake and his partner, Michael Michaels, from at least December 2004 onward, including a limousine ride to the 2005 Heisman Trophy presentation. As a result, USC was given four years of probation and forced to vacate its last two wins of the 2004 season including the 2005 Orange Bowl as well as all of its wins in the 2005 season. The Trojans were also banned from bowl games in 2010 and 2011 and lost 30 scholarships over three years. Running backs coach Todd McNair was banned from off-campus recruiting for one year after the NCAA determined he had known about Bush's dealings with the agents. McNair sued the NCAA for damages related to his dismissal and the NCAA lost. The judge in the case found the NCAA conducted the USC investigation and that of McNair with "malice".[38] The NCAA also forced USC to disassociate itself from Bush.[39][40]
Wikipedia: On June 10, 2010, the NCAA announced major sanctions against USC. The NCAA found that Bush had received lavish gifts from Lake and his partner, Michael Michaels, from at least December 2004 onward, including a limousine ride to the 2005 Heisman Trophy presentation. As a result, USC was given four years of probation and forced to vacate its last two wins of the 2004 season including the 2005 Orange Bowl as well as all of its wins in the 2005 season. The Trojans were also banned from bowl games in 2010 and 2011 and lost 30 scholarships over three years. Running backs coach Todd McNair was banned from off-campus recruiting for one year after the NCAA determined he had known about Bush's dealings with the agents. McNair sued the NCAA for damages related to his dismissal and the NCAA lost. The judge in the case found the NCAA conducted the USC investigation and that of McNair with "malice".[38] The NCAA also forced USC to disassociate itself from Bush.[39][40]
Strykur said:Not that he took benefits per se but the "benefits" he did receive were comically minor compared to the 8-figure NIL deals and Lambos that are being thrown at recruits before even coming onto campus these days.flounder said:how did he cheat? he took benefits that were impermissible by the ncaa at the time.BearBoarBlarney said:Ah yes, moral relativism at its finest.BearSD said:
Bush's Heisman should not have been taken away in the first place.
Many other Heisman winners were "paid to play", and some other winners did far worse things than take some money, and none of their Heismans were ever threatened, much less taken away.
Fact is that Reggie Bush cheated and got caught. His Heisman was deservedly taken away for cheating under the rules that were in place during his playing days.
So someone who gets a ticket for going 70 mph (or 75 mph with the 5 mph gratis philosophy) should get their money back if 15 years later the speed limit is raised from 65 up to 70 mph?
BBB
More specifically, today the NCAA doesn't matter.The organization has largely been stripped of any power to do the one thing (maintain competitive balance) for which there was ever any strong justification for its existence. College sports are now fully embroiled in an exercise in free market Darwinism that I believe will result in a very select minority of winners and a multitude of losers. Among the losers, those marginal scholarship athletes left out when cash strapped schools start culling sports.bluehenbear said:
Only the end results and money
https://npr.org/2024/04/24/1246829554/reggie-bush-heisman-trophy-reinstated
79 Bear said:
I was never clear on whether Bush actually received anything of value impermissibly. I have always heard it was his family that supposedly got something and that he denied knowing about it and did not receive anything himself. This Wikipedia article indicates he received unspecified "lavish gifts" including a limousine ride to the Heisman Trophy ceremony. If that's really all they could prove he got, then the whole thing sounds like a farce and/or vendetta against USC.
Wikipedia: On June 10, 2010, the NCAA announced major sanctions against USC. The NCAA found that Bush had received lavish gifts from Lake and his partner, Michael Michaels, from at least December 2004 onward, including a limousine ride to the 2005 Heisman Trophy presentation. As a result, USC was given four years of probation and forced to vacate its last two wins of the 2004 season including the 2005 Orange Bowl as well as all of its wins in the 2005 season. The Trojans were also banned from bowl games in 2010 and 2011 and lost 30 scholarships over three years. Running backs coach Todd McNair was banned from off-campus recruiting for one year after the NCAA determined he had known about Bush's dealings with the agents. McNair sued the NCAA for damages related to his dismissal and the NCAA lost. The judge in the case found the NCAA conducted the USC investigation and that of McNair with "malice".[38] The NCAA also forced USC to disassociate itself from Bush.[39][40]
His family got a house. Ricky Roe's family only got a tractor.
I think you made my point, a minor infraction that is now not even an infraction.BillyBoyBlue said:So someone who gets a ticket for going 70 mph (or 75 mph with the 5 mph gratis philosophy) should get their money back if 15 years later the speed limit is raised from 65 up to 70 mph?Strykur said:Not that he took benefits per se but the "benefits" he did receive were comically minor compared to the 8-figure NIL deals and Lambos that are being thrown at recruits before even coming onto campus these days.flounder said:how did he cheat? he took benefits that were impermissible by the ncaa at the time.BearBoarBlarney said:Ah yes, moral relativism at its finest.BearSD said:
Bush's Heisman should not have been taken away in the first place.
Many other Heisman winners were "paid to play", and some other winners did far worse things than take some money, and none of their Heismans were ever threatened, much less taken away.
Fact is that Reggie Bush cheated and got caught. His Heisman was deservedly taken away for cheating under the rules that were in place during his playing days.
BBB
BearBoarBlarney said:BearSD said:
Bush's Heisman should not have been taken away in the first place.
Many other Heisman winners were "paid to play", and some other winners did far worse things than take some money, and none of their Heismans were ever threatened, much less taken away.
Ah yes, moral relativism at its finest.
Fact is that Reggie Bush cheated and got caught. His Heisman was deservedly taken away for cheating under the rules that were in place during his playing days.
Disagree. Was never clear or established that he personally benefited from any gifts. He's also suing the NCAA for defamation. I'm glad they gave him his trophy back. He deserves it.
philly1121 said:BearBoarBlarney said:BearSD said:
Bush's Heisman should not have been taken away in the first place.
Many other Heisman winners were "paid to play", and some other winners did far worse things than take some money, and none of their Heismans were ever threatened, much less taken away.
Ah yes, moral relativism at its finest.
Fact is that Reggie Bush cheated and got caught. His Heisman was deservedly taken away for cheating under the rules that were in place during his playing days.
Disagree. Was never clear or established that he personally benefited from any gifts. He's also suing the NCAA for defamation. I'm glad they gave him his trophy back. He deserves it.
State records show the Apple Street home was built in late 2004 and early 2005, then purchased by Michaels on March 29, 2005 for $757,500. Around that time, neighbors say Bush's family moved in.
Michael Michaels is a man who is alleged to have tried to play a role in steering Bush toward an agent and who also has ties to a sports marketing company.
NCAA statutes prohibit student-athletes or their families from receiving extra benefits from professional sports agents, marketing companies or their representatives. A breach of these statutes could result in an athlete being ruled ineligible, and games in which they played could be forfeited.
I'm too tired to even deep dive this. Ok, fine. he broke the rules. And? Take it up with the judge. Players are getting millions now. To keep his statue forfeited is absurd given the amount of money changing hands now. And its pretty hypocritical. Give him his damn trophy back. He earned it.
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