Foradolla23 said:
BarcaBear said:
WalterSobchak said:
Only way anyone thinks Kendrick came out on top is because they weren't paying attention.
Drake and Kendrick should both sue each other for slander and libel. Only defense against defamation of character is the truth, but in the case of Kendrick, he would have to sue himself because he completely wrecked his own brand with his approach. He should have kept sitting on that diss album (10 diss tracks) he created 4 years ago.
The Drake haters came out hating Drake just as before. But his reputation didn't drop. His fans are still his fans. Kendricks fans were never Drake fans and vice versa.
Kendricks entire list of disses were recycled from internet forums. The women involved in the accusations against Drake have been gaslit for years and continue to be gaslit by Kendrick fanboys. it is weird how the people who hate Drake are so quick to completely dismiss what the women involved have said. They call that misogyny.
Millie called all the dudes creeps for fetishizing her friendship with Drake and sexualizing something that wasn't. The Colorado on stage kiss didn't violate Colorado law, even though it violated the sensibilities of many. The woman has come out in defense of that kiss. The claims of pedophilia have been debunked, and the closest anybody can claim is maybe grooming, but none of the women mentioned have come out accusing him.
Kendrick, on the other hand came out tore up by this. He was exposed as a fake activist and if you didn't realize that then you weren't paying attention to hip hop when Macklemore released Hinds Hall and threw a subliminal at Kendrick for staying silent. Kendrick also got called out for racist cultural appropriation of Indigenous culture (sacred indigenous medicine).
Kendrick got exposed for deeply colonized thinking, and calling Drake a colonizer doesn't hide his failure to correct himself. Kendrick got called out by Suge Knight and others for his use of racist colorism against Drake. Imagine being on the receiving end of a tweet from Suge and losing. Before this petty fighting unfolded nobody ever imagined that happening.
Worse, Black women called out Kendrick and Drake for exploiting the violence against women in order to win a petty rap battle. How shallow and misogynistic for two famous men to throw around accusations of domestic violence and pedophilia yet never have said anything for all these years. If they truly believed in this they should have stood on business. Neither did. Problem for Kendrick is that Drake's accusations can only be lifted by the woman involved, Kendrick's fiance, Whitney, and she isn't standing up for him. The women involved in the Drake accusations already spoke out denying the claims of inappropriate behaviour or underage dating.
Ultimately, there is more truth to what Drake said about Kendrick, than the other way around. And most of what harmed Kendrick was his own approach, and not anything Drake said. The only way you think Kendrick won is if you weren't paying attention.
Kendrick has had 3 of the top 10 streaming songs during this, and one of them was the most streamed song on spotify ever. Not like us is beeing played over and over again with people dancing and hollering out "Certified PDFile" in clubs and weddings. Not like Us was even played during the NBA playoffs. Not sure how this signifies a hurting of his brand.
Issues surrounding abuse are far more complicated than simply believing what the victims are saying especially in regards to defense of abusive behavior by the victim. Millie was 14 when Drake reached out to her. If the claims of pedophilia have been debunked, why is it you go on to concede that it could be grooming? what do you think people groom 14 year olds for?
Was Kendrick really exposed as a fake activist? This was addressed in the Big Steppers album. Where he straight up states, "I am not your savior". Drake's accusations all came from songs on the big stepper album. Kendrick's song "We Cry Together" I m certain is where Drake got this claim of domestic violence, much like he got the whole "you must have been molested" from Mother I sober where drake completely misunderstood the song, and shamed him for being molested, when the point of the song was that Kendrick was not the one who was molested.
Your commentary on DV and PDFilia being exploited for rap battle is on point mostly except for this is true for rap beefs in general and is not specific to Drake and Kendrick. Dr. Dre had a line in Dre Day "Put down the candy and let the little boy go" targeting Eazy, and Eazy targeted Dr Dre's assault of Dee Barnes.
Not sure I take what Macklemore stated in Hines Hall as a sneak diss toward Kendrick, as much as it was commentary on how glued to the beef the general public was and how everyone is waiting for responses. Especially considering that he has his own history of exploitning kendrick by posting a text message he sent to kendrick and blasting the text on the internet to say, 'See I'm down."
As far as colorism is concerned, Ithink Kendrick's claims have more to do with being from Canada and how Drake operates within the industry and less to do with him being half white or light skinned. in regards to colonizer claims, Drake has some issues with the way he moves through the industry. See issues with the Weeknd.
On a scholarly perspective, I can see how one can claim that Kendrick lost, but as far as the cultural zeitgeist of it all, Kendrick won, and its not even close (see 1st paragraph).
his brand has been wrecked. if you don't realize that, then you haven't been paying attention to what his rep was for years and what his rep is now. you know enough about him that you listened to Mr Morale, so given what we know now, listen to the songs again because he was trying to tell people things that are hard for him to say publicly.
before that, I would say careful to not confuse people's notions of his brand with them dancing to music that DJ's play on the radio, at clubs or in stadiums. When they play Push Ups or any other Drake song people are still vibing to it and partying. as to why so many DJ's are playing it, well, did you not notice when content creators on various platforms were profusely thanking Kendrick for what he did for them during the Beef?
Kendrick did something Drake could not do--remove the copyrights on his music. Why did you think Kenny do that? out of the genuineness of his heart? lmao no, he did it because he knew that it would get more air time because of that and that would be distorted into people thinking he won a meaningless beef. truth is, nobody has to pay him (Kendrick) to play these beef tracks. it was a genius move, kinda like contacting the Tupac estate to get them to threaten a lawsuit in order to force the song Taylor Made off the air completely. Folks forget that Snoop was perfectly okay with the song (he agreed with the bars that his AI voice said). If anything, those bars are what hurt Kendrick the most. Remember, AI Snoop bars were about Kendrick being passed the torch and not living up to it, putting on a persona (doing prison push ups) as if he was about that lifestyle. That track was brutal to the persona Kendrick was putting forth on social media. truth is, he's never worn shower shoes so it really is ridiculous that he puts up videos of him doing prison push up routines.
back to the copyrights. Drake can't remove copyrights like that because he would have to get permission from UMG and UMG is NOT ever going to do that because they own him to the tune of $400 million.
so, don't read too much into the streaming numbers either. if you noticed Push Ups had more views in 2 weeks than Not Like US did in two weeks, but once Kendrick removed the copyrights it started artificially boosting his numbers. If Drake removed the copyrights on his music the numbers would explode.
when it comes to the numbers be aware of what is actually pushing numbers. its kinda like how Its a Wonderful Life was being played endlessly during Christmas for decades. It wasn't because it was a great movie, its because the TV networks didn't have to pay for the right to play the movie.
anyway, back to the reputation issue:
1) Kendrick is now literally mentioned in the same sentence as other rappers that have beat women. That was NOT the case before this. His reputation was pristine before. you know that. everyone knows that. He was being lorded over everyone else by mainstream media for winning a Pulitzer, he was seen as an activist, there literally was no stain on his reputation.
and now?
Now, he is literally mentioned in the same sentence as Breezy (Chris Brown) who beat Rihanna. This subject sets off his fanboys on social media all the time, because it grates on them that his rep has been permanently stained. The truth is that only his fiance or ex-fiance, Whitney, can clean him of that stain and she has refused to do so, because its true. Listen to Savior again, because Kendrick himself is alluding to this, "Like it when they pro-Black, but I'm more Kodak Black" Remember, Kendrick is known for having deeper meaning to his lyrics, but I'll return to this on the subject of his activism.
As to Drake's reputation. His music was popular, and he dominated the industry for fifteen years. He was never discussed as a great lyricist, because that wasn't his thing. He stuck to the classic tropes that defined hip hop music: boasting about having a lifestyle of more money, more ladies, more partying than everyone else. Only thing he couldn't really claim was being about that life as a gangster, but then he began surrounding himself with real hitters and that's sort of changed, he did call himself the 6 God.
2) the claims of pedophilia don't hold up, no matter how many people are acting creepy shouting pedophile in clubs. to believe it was pedophilia requires a person to a) not know the law, b) misinterpret things they don't know about, and c) gaslight the women involved.
You bring up Millie being 14. She has clearly stated that he was giving her advice as someone who was himself a child actor. the only people that can actually advise someone about that are former child actors. if you are distorting that and clinging to a belief it was grooming then you bite into the fact that she called people who do that "creeps" for painting her friendship as something it never was. Grooming requires sexual abuse of a minor. None of the people that have been named have ever discussed having a sexual relationship with him, so you are launching yourself into the stratosphere with your conclusions. The only legitimate stance you can literally have about him is that 1) you don't know, and 2) that he, like almost every rapper in the industry, objectifies young adult women by popularizing strip clubs.
3) as to the activist...yes, he literally wrote a song where he says he is not a savior. he is a hardcore christian. so he is actually talking about not being a christian savior--jesus. You are misreading his words to mean that he is not an activist, although he believes you shouldn't look up to him or others because they are just people struggling and that you should turn to jesus, his savior. he isn't saying he is not an activist, he clearly says that he is.
revisit verse 1:
"two times center codefendant judging my life
back pedaler, what they say? You do the cha-cha
I'ma stand on it, 6'5" from 5'5"
fun fact, I ain't taking sh*t back
Like it when they pro-black, but I'm more kodak black..."
he's literally talking about him being an activist. standing on principles, not like folks that performatively pro-black with their black-out screens on social media (remember the people doing that with their profile pics on facebook?). People didn't grasp what he meant entirely by Kodak Black, because Kodak had been arrested on kidnapping, battery, and sexual assault charges (amongst many other things), but if you looked at Kendrick he was never charged on anything even remotely close to any of that and the only hint at a different side to his life was something that TDE had successfully buried back then. a security guard at the Hard Rock casino had been called to aid a woman who had been beaten and bloodied by Kendrick. Cops were involved, but TDE stepped in and hands were greased and the woman was bought off, but folks forgot to pay off the security guard who witnessed it. TDE crisis management team was all over it burying the story and getting the interview with the security guard removed by Youtube back in 2014. this was all before the Me Too movement.
so, when Kendrick says he's more like Kodak Black, he wasn't joking and there was deeper meaning to it.
also, revisit verse 2:
Bite they tongues in rap lyrics
scared to be crucified by a song, but they won't admit it
politically correct is how you keep an opinion
N****s is tight lipped, **** who dare to be different..."
Verse 3:
capitalists posing as compassionates be offending me
Kendrick is saying that he is a lot more activist and that other artists upset him because they censor themselves. but here we are during the Gaza genocide and he has been silent. he's not protecting himself "in the valley of silence". the public is watching and he is silent.
3) folks misread Drakes diss when he commented on Mr. Morale, he doesn't say Kendrick was molested. he is saying after we can undersand why you are so obsessed about misreading things as pedophilia after everything we saw in that album and you talking about your mom and all the molestation and nobody believing your side. nowhere in his bars does Drake say that Kendrick was molested, he is talking about Kendricks obsession with the subject itself.
4) the DV and pedophilia stuff creeping up in verses in hip hop isn't knew. I do remember that Dre vs Eazy-E stuff going down that path. you brought up Dre, and in this context I will refer to him as more proof of something that has stained Dre's reputation, domestic violence. regardless of his success in the industry and in business, that stuff hangs on Dre to this day. domestic violence is going to hang on Kendrick to his dying days, as well.
5) I think Macklemore's verse in Hinds Hall is a subliminal, not a diss. Remember, when Hinds Hall the only person waiting on Drake dropping another track was Kendrick. Kendrick sitting on another 5 tracks has been brought up by a lot of folks, that he was just waiting for Drake to release another track in order to unload some more. I don't think that subliminal was aimed at Drake or the public, other than it is easy to say Drake because if he said Kendrick it would have pissed off a lot of fans, and Macklemore still feels bad about having won out over Drake during the Grammys that one year. as a complete aside: Macklemore winning out with The Heist over Kendrick's "good kid m.A.A.d city" is still one of the most absurd things in Grammy history.
6) the zeitgeist is being misread by you. the numbers are the only thing Kendrick won. Drake lost the numbers. but something that popped up in this beef that has been unique is the reputation thing. that's not something that really ever showed up before in any rap battle: not LL Cool J vs Kool Moe D, Dre vs Eazy, Ice Cube vs NWA, 50 versus anybody, Nas vs Jay-Z. This battle took on a different tone. its unique. and Kendrick lost something he desperately craves. and Drake can't win something that won't ever be given to him because he is light skinned and half white. That colorism stuff is about race, not Toronto.
people get really stuck in this weird place with regard to notions of "The Culture" somehow magically not extending beyond the imaginary borders of the US. Go ask Snoop if the Culture extends to the favelas of Brazil, the banlieues of Paris, the Tower Hamlets of Northeast London. Go to those hoods and ask them if they are allowed to say the N word? Suge Knight was correct in calling out Kendrick for his racist colorism. Folks butcher the concept in order to try to defend Kendricks internalized bigotry, saying its about Drake dipping into sounds from the Caribbean. But that's being said by folks that have no knowledge whatsoever about the Black immigrant community of Toronto. its predominantly folks from Trinidad, Somalia, Ethiopia, Jamaica. Kendrick dips into Jamaican culture but he's not Jamaican, so where does that leave him? folks who think the rights to the culture are dependent on how dark the shade of someone's skin is, are as lost as Kendrick.
Ultimately, Kendrick has been completely silent about everything except for putting forth this fake persona of being hard growing up in Compton as shown by his one public appearance doing pull ups with folks in Harlem. Hoenstly, Compton isn't that hard. Kendrick didn't grow up in pre-gang injuction CPT when things were crazy. He grew up in CPT that is 75% non-Black, predominantly Indigenous (aka Latinos). Around 20% of the city is Black. just saying, Kendrick is fake af with this hard persona and people are realizing this because the message keeps spreading even though he tried to stamp it out. I have had this discussion with a lot of people in Oakland, LA, Houston, Toronto, and some folks back east in the New York area and the only thing that anybody can claim is that Kendrick won the numbers, but he lost everything else about his reputation. he will end up like Dre one day, rich and famous and with folks still thinking about how he beat on women.
