Hard to compete with that in the NIL era

Nonsense. If a million UC Berkeley Bears fans give $100 a year, we good.

Why give money to a place that gave huge extensions to Knowlton and Wilcox

Strykur said:

---

Why give money to a place that gave huge extensions to Knowlton and Wilcox

---

That's why everyone should be donating to Cal Legends instead of the athletic department.

Strykur said:

---

Why give money to a place that gave huge extensions to Knowlton and Wilcox

---

SMU's millionaires decided that the solution to wanting a new coach or a new AD or better recruiting is to donate enough money to make that happen.

That seems to be working better for SMU football than your approach is working for Cal football.

Lots of generational oil $ there at SMU

Back to NIL - on the broadcast Gilmore was saying that SMU's NIL money was prioritized for OL and DL. I don't know how true that is but it is painfully obvious that any wannabe program with some NIL resources should be doing the same.

How much NIL$ do all-league OL and DL command these days?

SMU is the USC of Texas, snobby private school. They have rich oil donors who embrace the Texas culture of football, football, football, all levels. Some High school coaches make six-figure salaries and the majority of high school principals are former football coaches. There is no comparison anywhere in California to this, even with the elite private schools. Unlike California, the best high school football teams in Texas are public schools, although it helps when many of them have enrollments of 4 to 6 thousand or more.

Is SMU generally considered a good school?

burritos said:

---

Is SMU generally considered a good school?

---

From Wikipedia:

In the 2023 edition, U.S. News & World Report SMU is tied for 89th in the rankings of national universities, with its highest ranking by the U.S. News & World Report being 56th in 2011 and 2017.[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Methodist_University#cite_note-77][77][/url][url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Methodist_University#cite_note-78][78][/url][url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Methodist_University#cite_note-SMU_Rankings_and_Recognitions-79][79][/url]
In spring 2020, U.S. News & World Report ranked the Cox School's Executive M.B.A. program 27th in the nation.[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Methodist_University#cite_note-80][80][/url]
U.S. News & World Report ranked the Dedman School of Law tied for 56th in the U.S. for 2021.[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Methodist_University#cite_note-USNWR_Grad_School_Rankings-76][76][/url] and it ranks 23rd among the top 50 law schools with the highest average salaries of first-year graduates, according to data released by the U.S. Department of Education in April 2020 based on 2016 salaries.[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Methodist_University#cite_note-SMU_Rankings_and_Recognitions-79][79][/url]
In 2020, Cond Nast Traveler ranked SMU 6th among "The 50 Most Beautiful College Campuses in America".[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Methodist_University#cite_note-SMU_Rankings_and_Recognitions-79][79][/url][url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Methodist_University#cite_note-81][81][/url]
In 2020 The Princeton Review in its 11th edition ranked SMU Guildhall as the No. 4 "Graduate Program for Game Design" in the world. Since the rankings debuted in 2010, the SMU Guildhall has ranked in the top 10, earning N0. 7 in 2013, No. 3 in 2014 and 2015, No. 2 in 2016 and 2019, and the No. 1 spot in 2017, and 2018 for two years in a row in a survey of over 150 institutions. The Princeton Review also ranked SMU as one of the "Best Western Colleges" and as eighth in "Lots of Greek Life."[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Methodist_University#cite_note-Southern_Methodist_University-82][82][/url][url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Methodist_University#cite_note-83][83][/url][url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Methodist_University#cite_note-84][84][/url][url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Methodist_University#cite_note-85][85][/url][url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Methodist_University#cite_note-86][86][/url][url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Methodist_University#cite_note-87][87][/url]
In the 2019 edition, SMU was ranked 91st in by Forbes.[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Methodist_University#cite_note-:3-88][88][/url]
In 2016, Bloomberg Businessweek ranked the Cox School B.B.A. program No. 21 in the nation the second consecutive ranking at No. 21 in that publication, and No. 5 in the nation for post-graduation B.B.A. salaries.[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Methodist_University#cite_note-SMU_Rankings_and_Recognitions-79][79][/url] The 2016 Bloomberg Businessweek undergraduate rankings survey, which the publication announced it will no longer conduct after this year, ranked 114 U.S. schools based heavily on career outcomes. Bloomberg Businessweek also ranked the SMU Cox Professional MBA program No. 7 in the nation; the SMU Cox Full-Time MBA program No. 31 in the nation; and ranked the SMU Cox Executive MBA program no. 3 in the world in 2013, the last year the publication ranked EMBA programs.[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Methodist_University#cite_note-89][89][/url]
In 2015, Forbes named Southern Methodist University 14th among America's Most Entrepreneurial Universities.[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Methodist_University#cite_note-90][90][/url]
In 2014, USA Today ranked SMU as the number 1 music college in the United States.[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Methodist_University#cite_note-91][91][/url]

bencgilmore said:

---

BearSD said:

---

CheezIt Bear said:

---

BearSD said:

---

Strykur said:

---

Why give money to a place that gave huge extensions to Knowlton and Wilcox

---

SMU's millionaires decided that the solution to wanting a new coach or a new AD or better recruiting is to donate enough money to make that happen.

That seems to be working better for SMU football than your approach is working for Cal football.

---

You could give Cal Legends $100 Million and it still won't make Wilcox a winning coach. Nothing is going to change until Wilcox and Knowlton are gone.

---

You are evading the point, which is that if millionaire donors cared enough, they would pay buyouts for those guys. At SMU, that buyout money would already have been pledged.

---

A more fundamental point is that those donors don't currently exist at Cal, so while it's a potentially interesting point it isn't a very helpful one

---

You mean the plane full of boosters they flew in for the Auburn game weren't donors? A reward for really good Cal fans, like they have great blue and gold outfits?
The dinner at the Hall of Fame the night before...again, just a reward for rooting hard???
Oh, I get it: SMU alums do better in the real world than Cal alums, thus the deeper pockets?

This isn't that hard. Football is more important to rich SMU alumni than it is to rich Berkeley alumni.

This isn't anything new. Football is a religion in Texas. Football is a barely tolerated (and just one of many) pastime in California.

AunBear89 said:

---

This isn't that hard. Football is more important to rich SMU alumni than it is to rich Berkeley alumni.

This isn't anything new. Football is a religion in Texas. Football is a barely tolerated (and just one of many) pastime in California.

---

Better to express criticism and vitriol towards coaches, players, admin, and other posters(that don't align with one's negativity) on a fan board than towards your spouse. It might preserve marital harmony. It's also a form of therapy. I personally find playing piano better for my soul.

BearSD said:

---

Strykur said:

---

Why give money to a place that gave huge extensions to Knowlton and Wilcox

---

SMU's millionaires decided that the solution to wanting a new coach or a new AD or better recruiting is to donate enough money to make that happen.

That seems to be working better for SMU football than your approach is working for Cal football.

---

They also had confidence that their school President was fully invested in the football program.

The amount of money flowing into high profile college football programs is unreal, and the crazy thing is that it does not always produce the hoped-for results. All the TV money going to UCLA and USC has not gotten them top-flight teams. These budgets are starting to dwarf academic budgets at the institutions and arguments that trickle down lifts academics are dubious at best.


https://www.marketwatch.com/story/billionaire-larry-ellison-helped-give-a-high-school-student-10-million-to-play-football-for-michigan-and-gave-us-a-glimpse-behind-the-nil-curtain-6bf5d87f

https://sports.yahoo.com/oregon-football-unlimited-nil-backing-203209065.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAADlg62Td2WHcH5tNGKL84JjrkM_kAOFYDngzACAXIiY8Gha8JMPcTSE52M2-6eBBOSUpbblmoD5DWwq2Edj_Y0iEumgZALPpU-DsNKz17y4Nws7WVrWXQG8kHwOcYbzIf1srzeVW_UMhDyI0BpeOryGsv51q3kTBr5DOFEIGwy-U

https://today.usc.edu/usc-breaks-ground-on-state-of-the-art-bloom-football-performance-center/

GoCal80 said:

---

The amount of money flowing into high profile college football programs is unreal, and the crazy thing is that it does not always produce the hoped-for results. All the TV money going to UCLA and USC has not gotten them top-flight teams. These budgets are starting to dwarf academic budgets at the institutions and arguments that trickle down lifts academics are dubious at best.


https://www.marketwatch.com/story/billionaire-larry-ellison-helped-give-a-high-school-student-10-million-to-play-football-for-michigan-and-gave-us-a-glimpse-behind-the-nil-curtain-6bf5d87f

https://sports.yahoo.com/oregon-football-unlimited-nil-backing-203209065.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAADlg62Td2WHcH5tNGKL84JjrkM_kAOFYDngzACAXIiY8Gha8JMPcTSE52M2-6eBBOSUpbblmoD5DWwq2Edj_Y0iEumgZALPpU-DsNKz17y4Nws7WVrWXQG8kHwOcYbzIf1srzeVW_UMhDyI0BpeOryGsv51q3kTBr5DOFEIGwy-U

https://today.usc.edu/usc-breaks-ground-on-state-of-the-art-bloom-football-performance-center/

---

I agree with you. SMU has all this football money but as soon as we entered two sports bars everyone was following Texas and Texas A&M. No celebrAting SMU fans. When their senior band and cheer were being rewarded, they listed off triple degree earners that would be nearly impossible at Cal's level of rigor: biomedicine, astrophysics, and mathematics for Buffy the cheerleader that seemed dubious. Cal will continue to attract student athletes who want an excellent education.
Maybe we need a football GM like Stanford who frees our coach to coach. And a separate younger OL coach who can create recruiting miracles.

BearoutEast67 said:

---

GoCal80 said:

---

The amount of money flowing into high profile college football programs is unreal, and the crazy thing is that it does not always produce the hoped-for results. All the TV money going to UCLA and USC has not gotten them top-flight teams. These budgets are starting to dwarf academic budgets at the institutions and arguments that trickle down lifts academics are dubious at best.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/billionaire-larry-ellison-helped-give-a-high-school-student-10-million-to-play-football-for-michigan-and-gave-us-a-glimpse-behind-the-nil-curtain-6bf5d87f

https://sports.yahoo.com/oregon-football-unlimited-nil-backing-203209065.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAADlg62Td2WHcH5tNGKL84JjrkM_kAOFYDngzACAXIiY8Gha8JMPcTSE52M2-6eBBOSUpbblmoD5DWwq2Edj_Y0iEumgZALPpU-DsNKz17y4Nws7WVrWXQG8kHwOcYbzIf1srzeVW_UMhDyI0BpeOryGsv51q3kTBr5DOFEIGwy-U

https://today.usc.edu/usc-breaks-ground-on-state-of-the-art-bloom-football-performance-center

---

I agree with you. SMU has all this football money but as soon as we entered two sports bars everyone was following Texas and Texas A&M. No celebrAting SMU fans. When their senior band and cheer were being rewarded, they listed off triple degree earners that would be nearly impossible at Cal's level of rigor: biomedicine, astrophysics, and mathematics for Buffy the cheerleader that seemed dubious. Cal will still attract student athletes that want an excellent education.

Maybe we need a football GM like Stanford that frees our coach to coach. And a separate younger OL coach who can create recruiting miracles.

---

Re USC and UCLA: Their first Big Ten distribution has not yet arrived, it will be paid next spring.

Re Capt. Andrew Luck and Stanford: I suspect his primary mission will be raising $$$$$$$ from donors for Stanford football. Our Bears absolutely, positively, need someone to do that for Cal football. (And of course we also need recruiting to deliver a huge upgrade to the O-line.)

BearSD said:

---

BearoutEast67 said:

---

GoCal80 said:

---

The amount of money flowing into high profile college football programs is unreal, and the crazy thing is that it does not always produce the hoped-for results. All the TV money going to UCLA and USC has not gotten them top-flight teams. These budgets are starting to dwarf academic budgets at the institutions and arguments that trickle down lifts academics are dubious at best.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/billionaire-larry-ellison-helped-give-a-high-school-student-10-million-to-play-football-for-michigan-and-gave-us-a-glimpse-behind-the-nil-curtain-6bf5d87f

https://sports.yahoo.com/oregon-football-unlimited-nil-backing-203209065.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAADlg62Td2WHcH5tNGKL84JjrkM_kAOFYDngzACAXIiY8Gha8JMPcTSE52M2-6eBBOSUpbblmoD5DWwq2Edj_Y0iEumgZALPpU-DsNKz17y4Nws7WVrWXQG8kHwOcYbzIf1srzeVW_UMhDyI0BpeOryGsv51q3kTBr5DOFEIGwy-U

https://today.usc.edu/usc-breaks-ground-on-state-of-the-art-bloom-football-performance-center

---

I agree with you. SMU has all this football money but as soon as we entered two sports bars everyone was following Texas and Texas A&M. No celebrAting SMU fans. When their senior band and cheer were being rewarded, they listed off triple degree earners that would be nearly impossible at Cal's level of rigor: biomedicine, astrophysics, and mathematics for Buffy the cheerleader that seemed dubious. Cal will still attract student athletes that want an excellent education.

Maybe we need a football GM like Stanford that frees our coach to coach. And a separate younger OL coach who can create recruiting miracles.

---

Re USC and UCLA: Their first Big Ten distribution has not yet arrived, it will be paid next spring.

Re Capt. Andrew Luck and Stanford: I suspect his primary mission will be raising $$$$$$$ from donors for Stanford football. Our Bears absolutely, positively, need someone to do that for Cal football. (And of course we also need recruiting to deliver a huge upgrade to the O-line.)

---

Add to the wish list, retaining certain key players and recruiting to the program for "graduation" losses on defense.

Wonder what the dynamics will be if a top recruit is getting a million but then support players get only a fraction of that?

southseasbear said:

---

burritos said:

---

Is SMU generally considered a good school?

---

From Wikipedia:

In the 2023 edition, U.S. News & World Report SMU is tied for 89th in the rankings of national universities, with its highest ranking by the U.S. News & World Report being 56th in 2011 and 2017.[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Methodist_University#cite_note-77][77][/url][url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Methodist_University#cite_note-78][78][/url][url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Methodist_University#cite_note-SMU_Rankings_and_Recognitions-79][79][/url]
In spring 2020, U.S. News & World Report ranked the Cox School's Executive M.B.A. program 27th in the nation.[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Methodist_University#cite_note-80][80][/url]
U.S. News & World Report ranked the Dedman School of Law tied for 56th in the U.S. for 2021.[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Methodist_University#cite_note-USNWR_Grad_School_Rankings-76][76][/url] and it ranks 23rd among the top 50 law schools with the highest average salaries of first-year graduates, according to data released by the U.S. Department of Education in April 2020 based on 2016 salaries.[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Methodist_University#cite_note-SMU_Rankings_and_Recognitions-79][79][/url]
In 2020, Cond Nast Traveler ranked SMU 6th among "The 50 Most Beautiful College Campuses in America".[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Methodist_University#cite_note-SMU_Rankings_and_Recognitions-79][79][/url][url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Methodist_University#cite_note-81][81][/url]
In 2020 The Princeton Review in its 11th edition ranked SMU Guildhall as the No. 4 "Graduate Program for Game Design" in the world. Since the rankings debuted in 2010, the SMU Guildhall has ranked in the top 10, earning N0. 7 in 2013, No. 3 in 2014 and 2015, No. 2 in 2016 and 2019, and the No. 1 spot in 2017, and 2018 for two years in a row in a survey of over 150 institutions. The Princeton Review also ranked SMU as one of the "Best Western Colleges" and as eighth in "Lots of Greek Life."[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Methodist_University#cite_note-Southern_Methodist_University-82][82][/url][url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Methodist_University#cite_note-83][83][/url][url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Methodist_University#cite_note-84][84][/url][url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Methodist_University#cite_note-85][85][/url][url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Methodist_University#cite_note-86][86][/url][url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Methodist_University#cite_note-87][87][/url]
In the 2019 edition, SMU was ranked 91st in by Forbes.[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Methodist_University#cite_note-:3-88][88][/url]
In 2016, Bloomberg Businessweek ranked the Cox School B.B.A. program No. 21 in the nation the second consecutive ranking at No. 21 in that publication, and No. 5 in the nation for post-graduation B.B.A. salaries.[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Methodist_University#cite_note-SMU_Rankings_and_Recognitions-79][79][/url] The 2016 Bloomberg Businessweek undergraduate rankings survey, which the publication announced it will no longer conduct after this year, ranked 114 U.S. schools based heavily on career outcomes. Bloomberg Businessweek also ranked the SMU Cox Professional MBA program No. 7 in the nation; the SMU Cox Full-Time MBA program No. 31 in the nation; and ranked the SMU Cox Executive MBA program no. 3 in the world in 2013, the last year the publication ranked EMBA programs.[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Methodist_University#cite_note-89][89][/url]
In 2015, Forbes named Southern Methodist University 14th among America's Most Entrepreneurial Universities.[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Methodist_University#cite_note-90][90][/url]
In 2014, USA Today ranked SMU as the number 1 music college in the United States.[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Methodist_University#cite_note-91][91][/url]

---

I've posted on this many times. There are three A level universities in Texas. In order of academic prominence they're Rice, UT Austin, and Texas A&M. SMU was similar to USC before SC greatly improved under Samples. SMU and TCU have both improved greatly because, like the top UC schools, students can't get into UT or A&M, and unlike the UC System, the UT system has always focused the big money on the Austin campus only. The drop-off from UT Austin and A&M to the next level other respective systems is enormous - like going from Cal/UCLA to Cal State Northridge. Texas is now the 2nd most populous state so just by pure numbers, SMU and TCU are getting a lot of smart kids from not only Texas, but from California as well. That being said, SMU has a long ways to go before it's in the same academic standing as USC or the top UC's. Like USC specifically, SMU still has a very strong alumni network, especially in the Metroplex.

burritos said:

---

Wonder what the dynamics will be if a top recruit is getting a million but then support players get only a fraction of that?

---

It's the same dynamic that runs this country

Great job by SMU. First year in the conference and they are in the playoff. Good move by the ACC as well considering the mediocrity on display top to bottom

AunBear89 said:

---

This isn't that hard. Football is more important to rich SMU alumni than it is to rich Berkeley alumni.

This isn't anything new. Football is a religion in Texas. Football is a barely tolerated (and just one of many) pastime in California.

---

Completely different than the "donors don't exist."
Winning has a way of increasing "tolerance."

For reference, Mack Brown said the NIL at UNC was 4M but is going up to 12m next year due to revenue sharing.

I don't know how that will compared to Cal

bencgilmore said:

---

BearSD said:

---

CheezIt Bear said:

---

BearSD said:

---

Strykur said:

---

Why give money to a place that gave huge extensions to Knowlton and Wilcox

---

SMU's millionaires decided that the solution to wanting a new coach or a new AD or better recruiting is to donate enough money to make that happen.

That seems to be working better for SMU football than your approach is working for Cal football.

---

You could give Cal Legends $100 Million and it still won't make Wilcox a winning coach. Nothing is going to change until Wilcox and Knowlton are gone.

---

You are evading the point, which is that if millionaire donors cared enough, they would pay buyouts for those guys. At SMU, that buyout money would already have been pledged.

---

A more fundamental point is that those donors don't currently exist at Cal, so while it's a potentially interesting point it isn't a very helpful one

---

OK but.....

Step back and think about universities as businesses. SMU is a private school and, as such, could not rely upon the texas government to provide an underlying level of support. Thus a core part of their business strategy involves building "brand loyalty" - so that the undergrads of today go onto being the donors of tomorrow.

Lets just look at ONE example (they are myriad and I am not sure if this is the best one).

Do you think that undergrads in unit 2 who, as I type today, are waiting MONTHS for maintenance to fix toilets, address mold, unclog sinks and drains and essentially are living in what would normally result in a health violation and a red tag are going to be more or less inclined to give to the university tomorrow? My guess is no.