Gkhoury2325 said:

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4thGenCal said:

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ducky23 said:

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It's time for him to finally come home. The whoever donors that don't like it, need to get over it.

Whatever money was supposed to go to sirmon and JKS plus add another 500k goes to him.

Hopefully the money and the knowledge that he'd be next in line will be enough.

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100% I know him personally and He is a force of nature. Incredible drive, motivating to his players, connected and will to win that is unsurpassed. Throw in Tosh's experience with past proven winner's, there is no question Cal would win and truly compete for conference titles. He made mistakes here on how He left, but He was also thrown under the bus with "injury gate" (was not his call yet was told to take the fall) and also on salary package promises that were met too late. Recruiting against Tosh, is a near impossible task - He is in nearly All major recruiting battles Oregon faces. And yes given that He is a Cal grad (De La Salle grad as well) former player and enjoys the Bay Area, for the right salary package AND alumni support, He would come back.

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4thGenCal, thank you for giving us the insight on if Tosh would actually come back to Cal since he has been gone for over a decade. Tosh would infuse so much energy into the program that is needed desperately. Cal has not had an influx of elite talent in years. I believe Cal needs to try and bring Tosh back, but will be use Cal again to get more money from Oregon. I guess I'm wondering if Tosh would really want to come back to Cal and try to propel it to new heights. Can he bring Tony Tuioti with to coach the DL. We need better recruiters.

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Yes I believe He would come back to Cal as HC, but only if the total package was enough for him to bring/hire top level coaches on his staff. And that sufficient resources were available to bring championship level football to Cal. He is about winning titles. He is used to having private plane access, NIL monies etc at his disposal - will the biggest donors step up? Would we have an AD and dept staff that would provide total support needed? Yes some alumni would be against hiring him, but for me - I would be all in, financially. Simply put Tosh would give the fan base the best hope to truly build a top ten program. The # of times He has out recruited key Cal targets, is very depressing. His intensity, competitiveness, ability to relate to student athletes, is off the charts and it's why Smart, Saban, Meyer, Sark, Lanning etc rebuffed outside interest/offers to keep him. However for now it's just banter, as Cal has a huge albatross of a contract with our HC.

01Bear said:

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calumnus said:

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01Bear said:

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kal kommie said:

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CNHTH said:

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kal kommie said:

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F*** Tosh

---

But not f*** Wilmoe who was the only one on Sark's staff who even knew tosh?
As I said before I can almost guarantee wilmoe's contract at udubb was tied to luring away tosh / some sort of recruiting milestone payout aka "I know a guy from my time at cal who is a master recruiter I'll see if the fuskies will buy him a houseboat"
Sorry but I've never understood those who blast tosh on one hand and then defend the ****tiest coach in our history who was instrumental in poaching tosh and just conned our hapless ad into one of the top 5 most ****ty contracts in the history of contracts.

---

Why do you assume these are mutually exclusive? I've wanted Wilcox fired for years.

But it's ridiculous to see people even try to draw an equivalence between Tosh and Wilcox here. Tosh was Benedict Arnold. Wilcox was some British general who helped his superiors recruit a traitor to benefit their own side.

No Tosh under any circumstances. Just say no to traitors. Maybe that's a simpleton rule but I do think some things aren't complicated.

---

Also, Wilcox didn't take Cal's money and burn Cal's only permissible visit to a star recruit's home to tell him to sign with another school.

---

Wilcox took the UW DC job and hired Tosh as his DL coach the week (?) before LOI day without informing Tedford, who gave him his first coaching job, and had Tosh start recruiting right away, who else was Tosh going to recruit but the same guys he had been recruiting? Of course Wilcox knew what was happening, he isn't that clueless. The Thompson family credits Wilcox for flipping Shaq.

---

Again, did Wilcox take Cal's money to fund a recruiting trip for UW?

Wilcox did what he was supposed to do, which was hire the best available assistants he could. Tosh, OTOH, used a trip Cal paid for to visit a recruit (IIRC, it was Shaq Thompson, but I could be mistaken) and convince him to go to UW instead of Cal. This not only was double dealing of the worst sort, but it also burned Cal's (IIRC only permissible) home visit to the recruit's family.

Had Tosh just resigned before the trip and not used Cal's trip to recruit on behalf of UW, no harm no foul. But he didn't have the moral fiber to do that. He screwed Cal and Tedford (even after Tedford went to bat for him and matched the salary UW offered).

---

Facts: 1) Injury gate" was ordered by the then DC who told Tosh to do it - Tosh did not want to do it, but after being ordered to twice, He complied. Afterwards the Conf commish told the AD simply to either suspend a coach for one game and if refused He would personally suspend Tedford. Tedford then chose to suspend Tosh (not the DC) only problem was he did Not notify Tosh of his one game suspension quick enough. Tosh found out via a reporter calling Tosh directly to get his take on the penalty! How unprofessional was that? This Info straight from Tosh to me. Tosh watched the game from Tightwad Hill. 2) Tedford only at the 11th hour matched Sark salary - I know because Tedford called me to explain why He was not going to match the initial salary request (Tedford said not fair to his more tenured coaches who had 5-9 years more team coaching experience to be paid less than Tosh. In particular Tedford said the KT the LB coach would not like a younger coach being paid more. I told him that Tosh is bringing in these program changing key recruits and therefore worth it.Tedford insisted that the key recruits were "the result of multiple coaches efforts! (totally wrong). Tosh's salary was approx $135k and only when Tosh explained that Sark had offered $235k did Tedford come up to match. However the same day Sark then went much higher with $285k and additional perks for Tosh that included others close to him did Tosh change direction and took the substantially higher offer. Tosh went back and forth, yes left us and yes convinced those very "team recruited players" with him. Life is tough, He looked out for himself. Could have it been handled better on both sides? Yes. But to somehow paint Tosh as this terrible guy is off base - He has always loved his alma mater. I do believe He would come back with the right package. And there is no question Cal would win under his leadership.

Splitting hairs defending Wilcox is the dumbest *****

4thGenCal said:

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01Bear said:

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calumnus said:

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01Bear said:

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kal kommie said:

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CNHTH said:

---

kal kommie said:

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F*** Tosh

---

But not f*** Wilmoe who was the only one on Sark's staff who even knew tosh?
As I said before I can almost guarantee wilmoe's contract at udubb was tied to luring away tosh / some sort of recruiting milestone payout aka "I know a guy from my time at cal who is a master recruiter I'll see if the fuskies will buy him a houseboat"
Sorry but I've never understood those who blast tosh on one hand and then defend the ****tiest coach in our history who was instrumental in poaching tosh and just conned our hapless ad into one of the top 5 most ****ty contracts in the history of contracts.

---

Why do you assume these are mutually exclusive? I've wanted Wilcox fired for years.

But it's ridiculous to see people even try to draw an equivalence between Tosh and Wilcox here. Tosh was Benedict Arnold. Wilcox was some British general who helped his superiors recruit a traitor to benefit their own side.

No Tosh under any circumstances. Just say no to traitors. Maybe that's a simpleton rule but I do think some things aren't complicated.

---

Also, Wilcox didn't take Cal's money and burn Cal's only permissible visit to a star recruit's home to tell him to sign with another school.

---

Wilcox took the UW DC job and hired Tosh as his DL coach the week (?) before LOI day without informing Tedford, who gave him his first coaching job, and had Tosh start recruiting right away, who else was Tosh going to recruit but the same guys he had been recruiting? Of course Wilcox knew what was happening, he isn't that clueless. The Thompson family credits Wilcox for flipping Shaq.

---

Again, did Wilcox take Cal's money to fund a recruiting trip for UW?

Wilcox did what he was supposed to do, which was hire the best available assistants he could. Tosh, OTOH, used a trip Cal paid for to visit a recruit (IIRC, it was Shaq Thompson, but I could be mistaken) and convince him to go to UW instead of Cal. This not only was double dealing of the worst sort, but it also burned Cal's (IIRC only permissible) home visit to the recruit's family.

Had Tosh just resigned before the trip and not used Cal's trip to recruit on behalf of UW, no harm no foul. But he didn't have the moral fiber to do that. He screwed Cal and Tedford (even after Tedford went to bat for him and matched the salary UW offered).

---

Facts: 1) Injury gate" was ordered by the then DC who told Tosh to do it - Tosh did not want to do it, but after being ordered to twice, He complied. Afterwards the Conf commish told the AD simply to either suspend a coach for one game and if refused He would personally suspend Tedford. Tedford then chose to suspend Tosh (not the DC) only problem was he did Not notify Tosh of his one game suspension quick enough. Tosh found out via a reporter calling Tosh directly to get his take on the penalty! How unprofessional was that? This Info straight from Tosh to me. Tosh watched the game from Tightwad Hill. 2) Tedford only at the 11th hour matched Sark salary - I know because Tedford called me to explain why He was not going to match the initial salary request (Tedford said not fair to his more tenured coaches who had 5-9 years more team coaching experience to be paid less than Tosh. In particular Tedford said the KT the LB coach would not like a younger coach being paid more. I told him that Tosh is bringing in these program changing key recruits and therefore worth it.Tedford insisted that the key recruits were "the result of multiple coaches efforts! (totally wrong). Tosh's salary was approx $135k and only when Tosh explained that Sark had offered $235k did Tedford come up to match. However the same day Sark then went much higher with $285k and additional perks for Tosh that included others close to him did Tosh change direction and took the substantially higher offer. Tosh went back and forth, yes left us and yes convinced those very "team recruited players" with him. Life is tough, He looked out for himself. Could have it been handled better on both sides? Yes. But to somehow paint Tosh as this terrible guy is off base - He has always loved his alma mater. I do believe He would come back with the right package. And there is no question Cal would win under his leadership.

---

Serious question, did Tosh tell a recruit to go to UW while on a recruiting trip paid for by Cal? If so, what does this say about him and what does it say about his alleged love of Cal?

01Bear said:

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4thGenCal said:

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01Bear said:

---

calumnus said:

---

01Bear said:

---

kal kommie said:

---

CNHTH said:

---

kal kommie said:

---

F*** Tosh

---

But not f*** Wilmoe who was the only one on Sark's staff who even knew tosh?
As I said before I can almost guarantee wilmoe's contract at udubb was tied to luring away tosh / some sort of recruiting milestone payout aka "I know a guy from my time at cal who is a master recruiter I'll see if the fuskies will buy him a houseboat"
Sorry but I've never understood those who blast tosh on one hand and then defend the ****tiest coach in our history who was instrumental in poaching tosh and just conned our hapless ad into one of the top 5 most ****ty contracts in the history of contracts.

---

Why do you assume these are mutually exclusive? I've wanted Wilcox fired for years.

But it's ridiculous to see people even try to draw an equivalence between Tosh and Wilcox here. Tosh was Benedict Arnold. Wilcox was some British general who helped his superiors recruit a traitor to benefit their own side.

No Tosh under any circumstances. Just say no to traitors. Maybe that's a simpleton rule but I do think some things aren't complicated.

---

Also, Wilcox didn't take Cal's money and burn Cal's only permissible visit to a star recruit's home to tell him to sign with another school.

---

Wilcox took the UW DC job and hired Tosh as his DL coach the week (?) before LOI day without informing Tedford, who gave him his first coaching job, and had Tosh start recruiting right away, who else was Tosh going to recruit but the same guys he had been recruiting? Of course Wilcox knew what was happening, he isn't that clueless. The Thompson family credits Wilcox for flipping Shaq.

---

Again, did Wilcox take Cal's money to fund a recruiting trip for UW?

Wilcox did what he was supposed to do, which was hire the best available assistants he could. Tosh, OTOH, used a trip Cal paid for to visit a recruit (IIRC, it was Shaq Thompson, but I could be mistaken) and convince him to go to UW instead of Cal. This not only was double dealing of the worst sort, but it also burned Cal's (IIRC only permissible) home visit to the recruit's family.

Had Tosh just resigned before the trip and not used Cal's trip to recruit on behalf of UW, no harm no foul. But he didn't have the moral fiber to do that. He screwed Cal and Tedford (even after Tedford went to bat for him and matched the salary UW offered).

---

Facts: 1) Injury gate" was ordered by the then DC who told Tosh to do it - Tosh did not want to do it, but after being ordered to twice, He complied. Afterwards the Conf commish told the AD simply to either suspend a coach for one game and if refused He would personally suspend Tedford. Tedford then chose to suspend Tosh (not the DC) only problem was he did Not notify Tosh of his one game suspension quick enough. Tosh found out via a reporter calling Tosh directly to get his take on the penalty! How unprofessional was that? This Info straight from Tosh to me. Tosh watched the game from Tightwad Hill. 2) Tedford only at the 11th hour matched Sark salary - I know because Tedford called me to explain why He was not going to match the initial salary request (Tedford said not fair to his more tenured coaches who had 5-9 years more team coaching experience to be paid less than Tosh. In particular Tedford said the KT the LB coach would not like a younger coach being paid more. I told him that Tosh is bringing in these program changing key recruits and therefore worth it.Tedford insisted that the key recruits were "the result of multiple coaches efforts! (totally wrong). Tosh's salary was approx $135k and only when Tosh explained that Sark had offered $235k did Tedford come up to match. However the same day Sark then went much higher with $285k and additional perks for Tosh that included others close to him did Tosh change direction and took the substantially higher offer. Tosh went back and forth, yes left us and yes convinced those very "team recruited players" with him. Life is tough, He looked out for himself. Could have it been handled better on both sides? Yes. But to somehow paint Tosh as this terrible guy is off base - He has always loved his alma mater. I do believe He would come back with the right package. And there is no question Cal would win under his leadership.

---

Serious question, did Tosh tell a recruit to go to UW while on a recruiting trip paid for by Cal? If so, what does this say about him and what does it say about his alleged love of Cal?

---

Your current head coach asked him to. Why is that hard to comprehend? If the argument against Tosh is that he "betrayed" CAL, Golden Bear fans could spit and hit the guy who was complicit.

ducktilldeath said:

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01Bear said:

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4thGenCal said:

---

01Bear said:

---

calumnus said:

---

01Bear said:

---

kal kommie said:

---

CNHTH said:

---

kal kommie said:

---

F*** Tosh

---

But not f*** Wilmoe who was the only one on Sark's staff who even knew tosh?
As I said before I can almost guarantee wilmoe's contract at udubb was tied to luring away tosh / some sort of recruiting milestone payout aka "I know a guy from my time at cal who is a master recruiter I'll see if the fuskies will buy him a houseboat"
Sorry but I've never understood those who blast tosh on one hand and then defend the ****tiest coach in our history who was instrumental in poaching tosh and just conned our hapless ad into one of the top 5 most ****ty contracts in the history of contracts.

---

Why do you assume these are mutually exclusive? I've wanted Wilcox fired for years.

But it's ridiculous to see people even try to draw an equivalence between Tosh and Wilcox here. Tosh was Benedict Arnold. Wilcox was some British general who helped his superiors recruit a traitor to benefit their own side.

No Tosh under any circumstances. Just say no to traitors. Maybe that's a simpleton rule but I do think some things aren't complicated.

---

Also, Wilcox didn't take Cal's money and burn Cal's only permissible visit to a star recruit's home to tell him to sign with another school.

---

Wilcox took the UW DC job and hired Tosh as his DL coach the week (?) before LOI day without informing Tedford, who gave him his first coaching job, and had Tosh start recruiting right away, who else was Tosh going to recruit but the same guys he had been recruiting? Of course Wilcox knew what was happening, he isn't that clueless. The Thompson family credits Wilcox for flipping Shaq.

---

Again, did Wilcox take Cal's money to fund a recruiting trip for UW?

Wilcox did what he was supposed to do, which was hire the best available assistants he could. Tosh, OTOH, used a trip Cal paid for to visit a recruit (IIRC, it was Shaq Thompson, but I could be mistaken) and convince him to go to UW instead of Cal. This not only was double dealing of the worst sort, but it also burned Cal's (IIRC only permissible) home visit to the recruit's family.

Had Tosh just resigned before the trip and not used Cal's trip to recruit on behalf of UW, no harm no foul. But he didn't have the moral fiber to do that. He screwed Cal and Tedford (even after Tedford went to bat for him and matched the salary UW offered).

---

Facts: 1) Injury gate" was ordered by the then DC who told Tosh to do it - Tosh did not want to do it, but after being ordered to twice, He complied. Afterwards the Conf commish told the AD simply to either suspend a coach for one game and if refused He would personally suspend Tedford. Tedford then chose to suspend Tosh (not the DC) only problem was he did Not notify Tosh of his one game suspension quick enough. Tosh found out via a reporter calling Tosh directly to get his take on the penalty! How unprofessional was that? This Info straight from Tosh to me. Tosh watched the game from Tightwad Hill. 2) Tedford only at the 11th hour matched Sark salary - I know because Tedford called me to explain why He was not going to match the initial salary request (Tedford said not fair to his more tenured coaches who had 5-9 years more team coaching experience to be paid less than Tosh. In particular Tedford said the KT the LB coach would not like a younger coach being paid more. I told him that Tosh is bringing in these program changing key recruits and therefore worth it.Tedford insisted that the key recruits were "the result of multiple coaches efforts! (totally wrong). Tosh's salary was approx $135k and only when Tosh explained that Sark had offered $235k did Tedford come up to match. However the same day Sark then went much higher with $285k and additional perks for Tosh that included others close to him did Tosh change direction and took the substantially higher offer. Tosh went back and forth, yes left us and yes convinced those very "team recruited players" with him. Life is tough, He looked out for himself. Could have it been handled better on both sides? Yes. But to somehow paint Tosh as this terrible guy is off base - He has always loved his alma mater. I do believe He would come back with the right package. And there is no question Cal would win under his leadership.

---

Serious question, did Tosh tell a recruit to go to UW while on a recruiting trip paid for by Cal? If so, what does this say about him and what does it say about his alleged love of Cal?

---

Your current head coach asked him to. Why is that hard to comprehend? If the argument against Tosh is that he "betrayed" CAL, Golden Bear fans could spit and hit the guy who was complicit.

---

I don't defend Wilcox. I want him gone.

That said, Wilcox did what he was supposed to do as an employee of UW. He hired the best assistants he could. He also persuaded an impressionable young man (I'm being generous here instead saying what I really think of him) to go on a recruiting trip on Cal's dime but to recruit for UW.

Again, if Tosh had just resigned earlier and not traveled on Cal's dime as a Cal employee and then told a Cal recruit to play for a rival, then there's no problem. Tosh was doing what he should, which was to maximize his earnings while young. But the fact of the matter is, Tosh did not resign from Cal before recruiting against Cal.

I'm not sure, but I've not seen a Tosh apologist explain away that. I'm pretty sure everyone agrees that was beyond the pale.

01Bear said:

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ducktilldeath said:

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01Bear said:

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4thGenCal said:

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01Bear said:

---

calumnus said:

---

01Bear said:

---

kal kommie said:

---

CNHTH said:

---

kal kommie said:

---

F*** Tosh

---

But not f*** Wilmoe who was the only one on Sark's staff who even knew tosh?
As I said before I can almost guarantee wilmoe's contract at udubb was tied to luring away tosh / some sort of recruiting milestone payout aka "I know a guy from my time at cal who is a master recruiter I'll see if the fuskies will buy him a houseboat"
Sorry but I've never understood those who blast tosh on one hand and then defend the ****tiest coach in our history who was instrumental in poaching tosh and just conned our hapless ad into one of the top 5 most ****ty contracts in the history of contracts.

---

Why do you assume these are mutually exclusive? I've wanted Wilcox fired for years.

But it's ridiculous to see people even try to draw an equivalence between Tosh and Wilcox here. Tosh was Benedict Arnold. Wilcox was some British general who helped his superiors recruit a traitor to benefit their own side.

No Tosh under any circumstances. Just say no to traitors. Maybe that's a simpleton rule but I do think some things aren't complicated.

---

Also, Wilcox didn't take Cal's money and burn Cal's only permissible visit to a star recruit's home to tell him to sign with another school.

---

Wilcox took the UW DC job and hired Tosh as his DL coach the week (?) before LOI day without informing Tedford, who gave him his first coaching job, and had Tosh start recruiting right away, who else was Tosh going to recruit but the same guys he had been recruiting? Of course Wilcox knew what was happening, he isn't that clueless. The Thompson family credits Wilcox for flipping Shaq.

---

Again, did Wilcox take Cal's money to fund a recruiting trip for UW?

Wilcox did what he was supposed to do, which was hire the best available assistants he could. Tosh, OTOH, used a trip Cal paid for to visit a recruit (IIRC, it was Shaq Thompson, but I could be mistaken) and convince him to go to UW instead of Cal. This not only was double dealing of the worst sort, but it also burned Cal's (IIRC only permissible) home visit to the recruit's family.

Had Tosh just resigned before the trip and not used Cal's trip to recruit on behalf of UW, no harm no foul. But he didn't have the moral fiber to do that. He screwed Cal and Tedford (even after Tedford went to bat for him and matched the salary UW offered).

---

Facts: 1) Injury gate" was ordered by the then DC who told Tosh to do it - Tosh did not want to do it, but after being ordered to twice, He complied. Afterwards the Conf commish told the AD simply to either suspend a coach for one game and if refused He would personally suspend Tedford. Tedford then chose to suspend Tosh (not the DC) only problem was he did Not notify Tosh of his one game suspension quick enough. Tosh found out via a reporter calling Tosh directly to get his take on the penalty! How unprofessional was that? This Info straight from Tosh to me. Tosh watched the game from Tightwad Hill. 2) Tedford only at the 11th hour matched Sark salary - I know because Tedford called me to explain why He was not going to match the initial salary request (Tedford said not fair to his more tenured coaches who had 5-9 years more team coaching experience to be paid less than Tosh. In particular Tedford said the KT the LB coach would not like a younger coach being paid more. I told him that Tosh is bringing in these program changing key recruits and therefore worth it.Tedford insisted that the key recruits were "the result of multiple coaches efforts! (totally wrong). Tosh's salary was approx $135k and only when Tosh explained that Sark had offered $235k did Tedford come up to match. However the same day Sark then went much higher with $285k and additional perks for Tosh that included others close to him did Tosh change direction and took the substantially higher offer. Tosh went back and forth, yes left us and yes convinced those very "team recruited players" with him. Life is tough, He looked out for himself. Could have it been handled better on both sides? Yes. But to somehow paint Tosh as this terrible guy is off base - He has always loved his alma mater. I do believe He would come back with the right package. And there is no question Cal would win under his leadership.

---

Serious question, did Tosh tell a recruit to go to UW while on a recruiting trip paid for by Cal? If so, what does this say about him and what does it say about his alleged love of Cal?

---

Your current head coach asked him to. Why is that hard to comprehend? If the argument against Tosh is that he "betrayed" CAL, Golden Bear fans could spit and hit the guy who was complicit.

---

I don't defend Wilcox. I want him gone.

That said, Wilcox did what he was supposed to do as an employee of UW. He hired the best assistants he could. He also persuaded an impressionable young man (I'm being generous here instead saying what I really think of him) to go on a recruiting trip on Cal's dime but to recruit for UW.

Again, if Tosh had just resigned earlier and not traveled on Cal's dime as a Cal employee and then told a Cal recruit to play for a rival, then there's no problem. Tosh was doing what he should, which was to maximize his earnings while young. But the fact of the matter is, Tosh did not resign from Cal before recruiting against Cal.

I'm not sure, but I've not seen a Tosh apologist explain away that. I'm pretty sure everyone agrees that was beyond the pale.

---

Life is hard. The big fish eat the little ones. Etc, etc, etc. What's really awful is all the people lying to themselves saying they're morally superior.

4thGenCal said:

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01Bear said:

---

calumnus said:

---

01Bear said:

---

kal kommie said:

---

CNHTH said:

---

kal kommie said:

---

F*** Tosh

---

But not f*** Wilmoe who was the only one on Sark's staff who even knew tosh?
As I said before I can almost guarantee wilmoe's contract at udubb was tied to luring away tosh / some sort of recruiting milestone payout aka "I know a guy from my time at cal who is a master recruiter I'll see if the fuskies will buy him a houseboat"
Sorry but I've never understood those who blast tosh on one hand and then defend the ****tiest coach in our history who was instrumental in poaching tosh and just conned our hapless ad into one of the top 5 most ****ty contracts in the history of contracts.

---

Why do you assume these are mutually exclusive? I've wanted Wilcox fired for years.

But it's ridiculous to see people even try to draw an equivalence between Tosh and Wilcox here. Tosh was Benedict Arnold. Wilcox was some British general who helped his superiors recruit a traitor to benefit their own side.

No Tosh under any circumstances. Just say no to traitors. Maybe that's a simpleton rule but I do think some things aren't complicated.

---

Also, Wilcox didn't take Cal's money and burn Cal's only permissible visit to a star recruit's home to tell him to sign with another school.

---

Wilcox took the UW DC job and hired Tosh as his DL coach the week (?) before LOI day without informing Tedford, who gave him his first coaching job, and had Tosh start recruiting right away, who else was Tosh going to recruit but the same guys he had been recruiting? Of course Wilcox knew what was happening, he isn't that clueless. The Thompson family credits Wilcox for flipping Shaq.

---

Again, did Wilcox take Cal's money to fund a recruiting trip for UW?

Wilcox did what he was supposed to do, which was hire the best available assistants he could. Tosh, OTOH, used a trip Cal paid for to visit a recruit (IIRC, it was Shaq Thompson, but I could be mistaken) and convince him to go to UW instead of Cal. This not only was double dealing of the worst sort, but it also burned Cal's (IIRC only permissible) home visit to the recruit's family.

Had Tosh just resigned before the trip and not used Cal's trip to recruit on behalf of UW, no harm no foul. But he didn't have the moral fiber to do that. He screwed Cal and Tedford (even after Tedford went to bat for him and matched the salary UW offered).

---

Facts: 1) Injury gate" was ordered by the then DC who told Tosh to do it - Tosh did not want to do it, but after being ordered to twice, He complied. Afterwards the Conf commish told the AD simply to either suspend a coach for one game and if refused He would personally suspend Tedford. Tedford then chose to suspend Tosh (not the DC) only problem was he did Not notify Tosh of his one game suspension quick enough. Tosh found out via a reporter calling Tosh directly to get his take on the penalty! How unprofessional was that? This Info straight from Tosh to me. Tosh watched the game from Tightwad Hill. 2) Tedford only at the 11th hour matched Sark salary - I know because Tedford called me to explain why He was not going to match the initial salary request (Tedford said not fair to his more tenured coaches who had 5-9 years more team coaching experience to be paid less than Tosh. In particular Tedford said the KT the LB coach would not like a younger coach being paid more. I told him that Tosh is bringing in these program changing key recruits and therefore worth it.Tedford insisted that the key recruits were "the result of multiple coaches efforts! (totally wrong). Tosh's salary was approx $135k and only when Tosh explained that Sark had offered $235k did Tedford come up to match. However the same day Sark then went much higher with $285k and additional perks for Tosh that included others close to him did Tosh change direction and took the substantially higher offer. Tosh went back and forth, yes left us and yes convinced those very "team recruited players" with him. Life is tough, He looked out for himself. Could have it been handled better on both sides? Yes. But to somehow paint Tosh as this terrible guy is off base - He has always loved his alma mater. I do believe He would come back with the right package. And there is no question Cal would win under his leadership.

---

Thank you for posting this.

01Bear said:

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ducktilldeath said:

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01Bear said:

---

4thGenCal said:

---

01Bear said:

---

calumnus said:

---

01Bear said:

---

kal kommie said:

---

CNHTH said:

---

kal kommie said:

---

F*** Tosh

---

But not f*** Wilmoe who was the only one on Sark's staff who even knew tosh?
As I said before I can almost guarantee wilmoe's contract at udubb was tied to luring away tosh / some sort of recruiting milestone payout aka "I know a guy from my time at cal who is a master recruiter I'll see if the fuskies will buy him a houseboat"
Sorry but I've never understood those who blast tosh on one hand and then defend the ****tiest coach in our history who was instrumental in poaching tosh and just conned our hapless ad into one of the top 5 most ****ty contracts in the history of contracts.

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Why do you assume these are mutually exclusive? I've wanted Wilcox fired for years.

But it's ridiculous to see people even try to draw an equivalence between Tosh and Wilcox here. Tosh was Benedict Arnold. Wilcox was some British general who helped his superiors recruit a traitor to benefit their own side.

No Tosh under any circumstances. Just say no to traitors. Maybe that's a simpleton rule but I do think some things aren't complicated.

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Also, Wilcox didn't take Cal's money and burn Cal's only permissible visit to a star recruit's home to tell him to sign with another school.

---

Wilcox took the UW DC job and hired Tosh as his DL coach the week (?) before LOI day without informing Tedford, who gave him his first coaching job, and had Tosh start recruiting right away, who else was Tosh going to recruit but the same guys he had been recruiting? Of course Wilcox knew what was happening, he isn't that clueless. The Thompson family credits Wilcox for flipping Shaq.

---

Again, did Wilcox take Cal's money to fund a recruiting trip for UW?

Wilcox did what he was supposed to do, which was hire the best available assistants he could. Tosh, OTOH, used a trip Cal paid for to visit a recruit (IIRC, it was Shaq Thompson, but I could be mistaken) and convince him to go to UW instead of Cal. This not only was double dealing of the worst sort, but it also burned Cal's (IIRC only permissible) home visit to the recruit's family.

Had Tosh just resigned before the trip and not used Cal's trip to recruit on behalf of UW, no harm no foul. But he didn't have the moral fiber to do that. He screwed Cal and Tedford (even after Tedford went to bat for him and matched the salary UW offered).

---

Facts: 1) Injury gate" was ordered by the then DC who told Tosh to do it - Tosh did not want to do it, but after being ordered to twice, He complied. Afterwards the Conf commish told the AD simply to either suspend a coach for one game and if refused He would personally suspend Tedford. Tedford then chose to suspend Tosh (not the DC) only problem was he did Not notify Tosh of his one game suspension quick enough. Tosh found out via a reporter calling Tosh directly to get his take on the penalty! How unprofessional was that? This Info straight from Tosh to me. Tosh watched the game from Tightwad Hill. 2) Tedford only at the 11th hour matched Sark salary - I know because Tedford called me to explain why He was not going to match the initial salary request (Tedford said not fair to his more tenured coaches who had 5-9 years more team coaching experience to be paid less than Tosh. In particular Tedford said the KT the LB coach would not like a younger coach being paid more. I told him that Tosh is bringing in these program changing key recruits and therefore worth it.Tedford insisted that the key recruits were "the result of multiple coaches efforts! (totally wrong). Tosh's salary was approx $135k and only when Tosh explained that Sark had offered $235k did Tedford come up to match. However the same day Sark then went much higher with $285k and additional perks for Tosh that included others close to him did Tosh change direction and took the substantially higher offer. Tosh went back and forth, yes left us and yes convinced those very "team recruited players" with him. Life is tough, He looked out for himself. Could have it been handled better on both sides? Yes. But to somehow paint Tosh as this terrible guy is off base - He has always loved his alma mater. I do believe He would come back with the right package. And there is no question Cal would win under his leadership.

---

Serious question, did Tosh tell a recruit to go to UW while on a recruiting trip paid for by Cal? If so, what does this say about him and what does it say about his alleged love of Cal?

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Your current head coach asked him to. Why is that hard to comprehend? If the argument against Tosh is that he "betrayed" CAL, Golden Bear fans could spit and hit the guy who was complicit.

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I don't defend Wilcox. I want him gone.

That said, Wilcox did what he was supposed to do as an employee of UW. He hired the best assistants he could. He also persuaded an impressionable young man (I'm being generous here instead saying what I really think of him) to go on a recruiting trip on Cal's dime but to recruit for UW.

Again, if Tosh had just resigned earlier and not traveled on Cal's dime as a Cal employee and then told a Cal recruit to play for a rival, then there's no problem. Tosh was doing what he should, which was to maximize his earnings while young. But the fact of the matter is, Tosh did not resign from Cal before recruiting against Cal.

I'm not sure, but I've not seen a Tosh apologist explain away that. I'm pretty sure everyone agrees that was beyond the pale.

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Wilcox hired his friends, that's what he always does.

ducktilldeath said:

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01Bear said:

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ducktilldeath said:

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01Bear said:

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4thGenCal said:

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01Bear said:

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calumnus said:

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01Bear said:

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kal kommie said:

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CNHTH said:

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kal kommie said:

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F*** Tosh

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But not f*** Wilmoe who was the only one on Sark's staff who even knew tosh?
As I said before I can almost guarantee wilmoe's contract at udubb was tied to luring away tosh / some sort of recruiting milestone payout aka "I know a guy from my time at cal who is a master recruiter I'll see if the fuskies will buy him a houseboat"
Sorry but I've never understood those who blast tosh on one hand and then defend the ****tiest coach in our history who was instrumental in poaching tosh and just conned our hapless ad into one of the top 5 most ****ty contracts in the history of contracts.

---

Why do you assume these are mutually exclusive? I've wanted Wilcox fired for years.

But it's ridiculous to see people even try to draw an equivalence between Tosh and Wilcox here. Tosh was Benedict Arnold. Wilcox was some British general who helped his superiors recruit a traitor to benefit their own side.

No Tosh under any circumstances. Just say no to traitors. Maybe that's a simpleton rule but I do think some things aren't complicated.

---

Also, Wilcox didn't take Cal's money and burn Cal's only permissible visit to a star recruit's home to tell him to sign with another school.

---

Wilcox took the UW DC job and hired Tosh as his DL coach the week (?) before LOI day without informing Tedford, who gave him his first coaching job, and had Tosh start recruiting right away, who else was Tosh going to recruit but the same guys he had been recruiting? Of course Wilcox knew what was happening, he isn't that clueless. The Thompson family credits Wilcox for flipping Shaq.

---

Again, did Wilcox take Cal's money to fund a recruiting trip for UW?

Wilcox did what he was supposed to do, which was hire the best available assistants he could. Tosh, OTOH, used a trip Cal paid for to visit a recruit (IIRC, it was Shaq Thompson, but I could be mistaken) and convince him to go to UW instead of Cal. This not only was double dealing of the worst sort, but it also burned Cal's (IIRC only permissible) home visit to the recruit's family.

Had Tosh just resigned before the trip and not used Cal's trip to recruit on behalf of UW, no harm no foul. But he didn't have the moral fiber to do that. He screwed Cal and Tedford (even after Tedford went to bat for him and matched the salary UW offered).

---

Facts: 1) Injury gate" was ordered by the then DC who told Tosh to do it - Tosh did not want to do it, but after being ordered to twice, He complied. Afterwards the Conf commish told the AD simply to either suspend a coach for one game and if refused He would personally suspend Tedford. Tedford then chose to suspend Tosh (not the DC) only problem was he did Not notify Tosh of his one game suspension quick enough. Tosh found out via a reporter calling Tosh directly to get his take on the penalty! How unprofessional was that? This Info straight from Tosh to me. Tosh watched the game from Tightwad Hill. 2) Tedford only at the 11th hour matched Sark salary - I know because Tedford called me to explain why He was not going to match the initial salary request (Tedford said not fair to his more tenured coaches who had 5-9 years more team coaching experience to be paid less than Tosh. In particular Tedford said the KT the LB coach would not like a younger coach being paid more. I told him that Tosh is bringing in these program changing key recruits and therefore worth it.Tedford insisted that the key recruits were "the result of multiple coaches efforts! (totally wrong). Tosh's salary was approx $135k and only when Tosh explained that Sark had offered $235k did Tedford come up to match. However the same day Sark then went much higher with $285k and additional perks for Tosh that included others close to him did Tosh change direction and took the substantially higher offer. Tosh went back and forth, yes left us and yes convinced those very "team recruited players" with him. Life is tough, He looked out for himself. Could have it been handled better on both sides? Yes. But to somehow paint Tosh as this terrible guy is off base - He has always loved his alma mater. I do believe He would come back with the right package. And there is no question Cal would win under his leadership.

---

Serious question, did Tosh tell a recruit to go to UW while on a recruiting trip paid for by Cal? If so, what does this say about him and what does it say about his alleged love of Cal?

---

Your current head coach asked him to. Why is that hard to comprehend? If the argument against Tosh is that he "betrayed" CAL, Golden Bear fans could spit and hit the guy who was complicit.

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I don't defend Wilcox. I want him gone.

That said, Wilcox did what he was supposed to do as an employee of UW. He hired the best assistants he could. He also persuaded an impressionable young man (I'm being generous here instead saying what I really think of him) to go on a recruiting trip on Cal's dime but to recruit for UW.

Again, if Tosh had just resigned earlier and not traveled on Cal's dime as a Cal employee and then told a Cal recruit to play for a rival, then there's no problem. Tosh was doing what he should, which was to maximize his earnings while young. But the fact of the matter is, Tosh did not resign from Cal before recruiting against Cal.

I'm not sure, but I've not seen a Tosh apologist explain away that. I'm pretty sure everyone agrees that was beyond the pale.

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Life is hard. The big fish eat the little ones. Etc, etc, etc. What's really awful is all the people lying to themselves saying they're morally superior.

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So your defense of Tosh is what, exactly?

No one ever claimed life is easy. That's just an entirely non sequitor strawman.

4thGenCal said:

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01Bear said:

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calumnus said:

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01Bear said:

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kal kommie said:

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CNHTH said:

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kal kommie said:

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F*** Tosh

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But not f*** Wilmoe who was the only one on Sark's staff who even knew tosh?
As I said before I can almost guarantee wilmoe's contract at udubb was tied to luring away tosh / some sort of recruiting milestone payout aka "I know a guy from my time at cal who is a master recruiter I'll see if the fuskies will buy him a houseboat"
Sorry but I've never understood those who blast tosh on one hand and then defend the ****tiest coach in our history who was instrumental in poaching tosh and just conned our hapless ad into one of the top 5 most ****ty contracts in the history of contracts.

---

Why do you assume these are mutually exclusive? I've wanted Wilcox fired for years.

But it's ridiculous to see people even try to draw an equivalence between Tosh and Wilcox here. Tosh was Benedict Arnold. Wilcox was some British general who helped his superiors recruit a traitor to benefit their own side.

No Tosh under any circumstances. Just say no to traitors. Maybe that's a simpleton rule but I do think some things aren't complicated.

---

Also, Wilcox didn't take Cal's money and burn Cal's only permissible visit to a star recruit's home to tell him to sign with another school.

---

Wilcox took the UW DC job and hired Tosh as his DL coach the week (?) before LOI day without informing Tedford, who gave him his first coaching job, and had Tosh start recruiting right away, who else was Tosh going to recruit but the same guys he had been recruiting? Of course Wilcox knew what was happening, he isn't that clueless. The Thompson family credits Wilcox for flipping Shaq.

---

Again, did Wilcox take Cal's money to fund a recruiting trip for UW?

Wilcox did what he was supposed to do, which was hire the best available assistants he could. Tosh, OTOH, used a trip Cal paid for to visit a recruit (IIRC, it was Shaq Thompson, but I could be mistaken) and convince him to go to UW instead of Cal. This not only was double dealing of the worst sort, but it also burned Cal's (IIRC only permissible) home visit to the recruit's family.

Had Tosh just resigned before the trip and not used Cal's trip to recruit on behalf of UW, no harm no foul. But he didn't have the moral fiber to do that. He screwed Cal and Tedford (even after Tedford went to bat for him and matched the salary UW offered).

---

Facts: 1) Injury gate" was ordered by the then DC who told Tosh to do it - Tosh did not want to do it, but after being ordered to twice, He complied. Afterwards the Conf commish told the AD simply to either suspend a coach for one game and if refused He would personally suspend Tedford. Tedford then chose to suspend Tosh (not the DC) only problem was he did Not notify Tosh of his one game suspension quick enough. Tosh found out via a reporter calling Tosh directly to get his take on the penalty! How unprofessional was that? This Info straight from Tosh to me. Tosh watched the game from Tightwad Hill. 2) Tedford only at the 11th hour matched Sark salary - I know because Tedford called me to explain why He was not going to match the initial salary request (Tedford said not fair to his more tenured coaches who had 5-9 years more team coaching experience to be paid less than Tosh. In particular Tedford said the KT the LB coach would not like a younger coach being paid more. I told him that Tosh is bringing in these program changing key recruits and therefore worth it.Tedford insisted that the key recruits were "the result of multiple coaches efforts! (totally wrong). Tosh's salary was approx $135k and only when Tosh explained that Sark had offered $235k did Tedford come up to match. However the same day Sark then went much higher with $285k and additional perks for Tosh that included others close to him did Tosh change direction and took the substantially higher offer. Tosh went back and forth, yes left us and yes convinced those very "team recruited players" with him. Life is tough, He looked out for himself. Could have it been handled better on both sides? Yes. But to somehow paint Tosh as this terrible guy is off base - He has always loved his alma mater. I do believe He would come back with the right package. And there is no question Cal would win under his leadership.

---

I don't know if he is a terrible guy and we are talking about something that happened years ago in discussing whether it should prevent a very hypothetical thing from happening that most likely isn't going to happen anyway. But out of your portrayal of events, there is one thing done that was way worse than anything else and that was done by Tosh.

1. I said at the time. Grow up. We were not going to have our head coach or our DC take the fall when they would be satisfied with a one game suspension of a position coach. Absolutely no program would do that. You claim that Tosh claims he wasn't told on time. If so, that was stupid on Tedford's part. But frankly, it should have been obvious to him what had to happen.

2. Tosh trying to get the most money out of Cal or Udub is entirely in his right to do. If everything is as you portrayed, it is reasonable for Tedford to be concerned about giving the guy a raise over other coaches. I think it is a stupid decision, but there is nothing wrong about it. There is nothing wrong with Tedford negotiating. There is nothing wrong with Tosh negotiating. There is nothing wrong with Tosh taking what he felt was the best offer. Anyone that is butt hurt about Tosh leaving is being a baby. Anyone who is butthurt because his current employer didn't give him money fast enough or about #1 is being a baby.

But no one has done anything wrong at this point in the situation. I have on many occasions cited Cal's stupid decision not to swallow hard and pay the guy what they needed to because he had their you know whats in a vice and after you spend millions on the stadium it was foolish not to spend a few hundo on saving the recruiting class. But whether we agree with that decision or not, Cal was looking out for Cal and Tosh was looking out for Tosh, both in completely acceptable ways.

3. The entirely immoral and unethical thing that was done was going on recruiting visits as a representative of Cal and recruiting for Udub. The second he turns in his notice, have at it. Flip as many guys as you want. Doing it on Cal's time, waiting for the head coach to leave the house and then doubling back and telling the recruit not to commit - that is incredibly wrong. Full stop. I don't care if he is butt hurt about injury gate. I don't care if he felt they should have offered him a bigger raise sooner. Those are bullshyte excuses.

That said, it was years ago. He was in his twenties. Young people make dumbass mistakes. I don't really care. Just don't tell me that there is some kind of equivalence about what was done. There wasn't. Frankly, I'm extremely unconvinced about him as a head coaching prospect, but that is up to people better qualified than me to decide. I am no way saying that a completely dumbass, unethical maneuver made in his twenties makes him ineligible for the job. If that is the criteria, there probably aren't many candidates in that pool to pull from.

But it was a dumbass, unethical thing to do. The irony is that he should have been suspended fort that far more than for injury gate. People had/have a right to be upset about it especially because it keeps being justified. Should they let it get in the way of hiring a good coach? I don't think so.

^ I don't think the situation can be articulated any better than this.

going4roses said:

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Ron needs to the DC advisor
Tedford OC advisor

GM has to be younger ( 30-40) recent college recruiting experience imo

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Tedford is going to be tosh's OC advisor? That would be fun. Tosh should make tedford watch the games from tightwad hill

BearSD said:

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ducky23 said:

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BearSD said:

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bencgilmore said:

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At this point id get over toshgate quick. Hell, Wilcox was part of toshgate so we really ought to be over it anyway

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LOL. Without the money provided by Uncle Phil (or by Alabama's donors), Tosh would be just another dime-a-dozen assistant coach trying out a sales pitch on high school kids.

Get the donor money first, and only then think about who is slick-talking the recruits.

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Tosh was brining in top classes when we were offering kids zero money and other schools were paying kids under the table

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Only one recruiting class in the top 25, and that was 15 years ago, and he wasn't the only coach involved in recruiting.

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And that Top 25 Class did not perform quite as expected because at Cal players must go to class and take
exams. Something unheard of at many other Top 25 colleges this requires a different type of recruiting

01Bear said:

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concordtom said:

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going4roses said:

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Ron DC advisor
Tedford OC advisor

GM has to be younger ( 30-40) recent college recruiting experience imo

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I thought GM was a new position that raised money from donors and closed the deal with recruits. Senior money man.
But I dunno how it works.

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Sincw college football is going toward the pro model, the fundraiser would likely be more of a guy like Sebasta, the GM should be more like the guy who identifies on-field (and coaching) talent.

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With football's importance to the school's budget it needs a group completely separate from the AD who would still oversee the other sports. Maybe basketball needs this too.

Given all the choices Cal athletics has made that I disagree with more strongly, I could live with Tosh as DL Coach, he would be an upgrade over Browning. The idea of Tosh as Head Coach is nuts.

The bottom line though is there are far better and certainly less divisive candidates for DL Coach and Head Coach than Tosh Lupoi.

Tosh is scum and should not even be permitted on campus if he's on an opposing coaching staff.

These "recruiter" types like him are truly the scum of the earth. I despise these "relate to the kids" type recruiters who manipulate kids into doing what they want them to do. You notice it's always what's best for them, never the athletes.