Per the Chron, so behind their paywall (although this can occasionally be defeated via judicious use of the ESC key as the article paints on your screen). Is this a harbinger of things to come? As funding from the state and feds declines, and students/parents push back on fee hikes, colleges are not going to risk their very existence just so athletes can play a sport.

Tiny colleges are also closing. Holy Names here and Mills merged with northeastern.

HearstMining said:

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Per the Chron, so behind their paywall (although this can occasionally be defeated via judicious use of the ESC key as the article paints on your screen). Is this a harbinger of things to come? As funding from the state and feds declines, and students/parents push back on fee hikes, colleges are not going to risk their very existence just so athletes can play a sport.

---

One would hope education would not be jeopardized to play games but it often seems we prefer entertainment to meatier matters. I suspect a lot of fringe players will curtail or totally eliminate costly athletic programs as the 50-60 full on professional programs evolve.

In the D3 world, football teams and sports in general are seen as recruitment tools. With the imbalance between men and women at most colleges, football and its +100 players is thought to help balance out the ratios of men to women.

59bear said:

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HearstMining said:

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Per the Chron, so behind their paywall (although this can occasionally be defeated via judicious use of the ESC key as the article paints on your screen). Is this a harbinger of things to come? As funding from the state and feds declines, and students/parents push back on fee hikes, colleges are not going to risk their very existence just so athletes can play a sport.

---

One would hope education would not be jeopardized to play games but it often seems we prefer entertainment to meatier matters. I suspect a lot of fringe players will curtail or totally eliminate costly athletic programs as the 50-60 full on professional programs evolve.

---

It seems like we like to pretend schools should stay open when they don't have a reason to be open.

Enrollment is way down, maybe we need 20% less capacity? Naw... Sports that have been around as long as the school is the problem.

Oakland is about to go bankrupt in part on refusal to close some underused elementary schools. It's asinine.

Chabbear said:

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Tiny colleges are also closing. Holy Names here and Mills merged with northeastern.

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And Notre Dame in Belmont - I believe Stanford bought the campus.

LunchTime said:

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59bear said:

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HearstMining said:

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Per the Chron, so behind their paywall (although this can occasionally be defeated via judicious use of the ESC key as the article paints on your screen). Is this a harbinger of things to come? As funding from the state and feds declines, and students/parents push back on fee hikes, colleges are not going to risk their very existence just so athletes can play a sport.

---

One would hope education would not be jeopardized to play games but it often seems we prefer entertainment to meatier matters. I suspect a lot of fringe players will curtail or totally eliminate costly athletic programs as the 50-60 full on professional programs evolve.

---

It seems like we like to pretend schools should stay open when they don't have a reason to be open.

Enrollment is way down, maybe we need 20% less capacity? Naw... Sports that have been around as long as the school is the problem.

Oakland is about to go bankrupt in part on refusal to close some underused elementary schools. It's asinine.

---

OUSD has a $95 million deficit. Closing schools will only save around $5 million. Almost all the cuts are going to have to come from non-closure places.

Focus should be on their construction management major and related trades. Everyone would get a job.

Reductions are occuring not just at the university level but with K-12 schools in Red states. I'm not sure that private and charter schools will be able to offer athletic programs to prepare football and basketball athletes to play at the college level.

BearoutEast67 said:

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Reductions are occuring not just at the university level but with K-12 schools in Red states. I'm not sure that private and charter schools will be able to offer athletic programs to prepare football and basketball athletes to play at the college level.

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I'm all for high school sports and understand that this can motivate some kids to focus on doing well in school, but is the core purpose of high school (private or public) to prepare football and basketball athletes to play at the college level?

Bear70 said:

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75bear said:

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BearBoarBlarney said:

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I was stunned to read that Sonoma State University's enrollment has dropped by 38% since its high in 2015.

I know folks talk about the coming enrollment cliff in higher education, but I didn't realize that some CSU system campuses were feeling it to this extent.

---

In that same time period, Cal Poly Humboldt went from 8,500 to its current 6,000.

People are having fewer kids.

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Or, kids see the scam of paying for a worthless degree and are choosing trade schools.

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Yes, demand for college seems to be elastic - higher tuition, lower demand.

I do remember that around 1999, we figured we could easily pay for Cal/CSU educations for our two boys, even as fees had increased from the $212.50/quarter that I had paid at Cal in the 1970s. But by the time, the oldest started in 2006, and certainly when the two overlapped in college for a year, we were selling some stock to make it work.

GivemTheAxe said:

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75bear said:

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BearBoarBlarney said:

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I was stunned to read that Sonoma State University's enrollment has dropped by 38% since its high in 2015.

I know folks talk about the coming enrollment cliff in higher education, but I didn't realize that some CSU system campuses were feeling it to this extent.

---

In that same time period, Cal Poly Humboldt went from 8,500 to its current 6,000.

People are having fewer kids.

---

Oakland has its own set of problems including a totally incompetent leadership starting with the Mayor (who can't even bother to file a timely application to get millions in State aid for its police)

However Oakland's educational system is in part suffering the same problems that the entire US is suffering- declining enrollment. The Baby Boom was an aberration.
There are different start dates for the Baby Boom. Some have set the date as early as 1944 when couples started marrying earlier some. Have set it at 1945. Currently most have set it at 1946. But by the late 1960's the birth rates were falling precipitously

For over twenty years the US benefited from exponential growth

But throughout most of US history the US benefited from massive amounts of immigrants (documented and undocumented). Contrary to what some politicians say. Those immigrants and their children provided the human resources and drive that made America great.

Those immigrants and their children provided the students who filled up American elementary schools high schools and later colleges.

With the Baby Boom generation. The US did not have a great need for massive immigration.

Now that the Baby Boom generation is aging out. The reality of our need for immigrants is Becoming more obvious. Who will provide the Human Resources to keep our status of living (including our colleges and our college
Football teams) going.

Granted the foregoing explanation is a generalization. And people can try to criticize and pick it apart. But the general trends cannot be ignored.

---

My two cents from the Insider thread on the topic, as modified for brevity:

College in the US (including at Cal) are very expensive compared to in other countries, due to the high level of student amenities, activities, entertainment and technology costs).

American schools invest in attractive facilities and student services, which can increase costs that are passed on to students. We build way more expensive, high maintenance buildings in comparison to other countries. American schools have way more expensive administrators, a fair amount of which is for compliance with governmental mandates to be eligible for federal and state money. Americans tend to view college partly as a fun time to "try out" adult hood, so competing colleges respond with ever nicer services, programs, athletics and other activities for students to enjoy, and American parents in the past seem willing to underwrite these costs. Higher college costs in the US prices tend to be followed by ever more generous government supported financial aid; thus, raising prices tends to be a bit of a race between schools to capture more of the government aide pie. This doesn't help students who don't qualify for aide, and one would expect, as certain degrees may be less value relative to college costs, parents are reconsidering the value of the American college education.

Specifically to athletics, American college athletics is on an astronomically different scale where events often are well attended, athletes may receive scholarships, preference in admissions, NIL, media attention, and training for professional or Olympic aspirations, which generally is not the case outside the US.

wifeisafurd said:

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GivemTheAxe said:

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75bear said:

---

BearBoarBlarney said:

---

I was stunned to read that Sonoma State University's enrollment has dropped by 38% since its high in 2015.

I know folks talk about the coming enrollment cliff in higher education, but I didn't realize that some CSU system campuses were feeling it to this extent.

---

In that same time period, Cal Poly Humboldt went from 8,500 to its current 6,000.

People are having fewer kids.

---

Oakland has its own set of problems including a totally incompetent leadership starting with the Mayor (who can't even bother to file a timely application to get millions in State aid for its police)

However Oakland's educational system is in part suffering the same problems that the entire US is suffering- declining enrollment. The Baby Boom was an aberration.
There are different start dates for the Baby Boom. Some have set the date as early as 1944 when couples started marrying earlier some. Have set it at 1945. Currently most have set it at 1946. But by the late 1960's the birth rates were falling precipitously

For over twenty years the US benefited from exponential growth

But throughout most of US history the US benefited from massive amounts of immigrants (documented and undocumented). Contrary to what some politicians say. Those immigrants and their children provided the human resources and drive that made America great.

Those immigrants and their children provided the students who filled up American elementary schools high schools and later colleges.

With the Baby Boom generation. The US did not have a great need for massive immigration.

Now that the Baby Boom generation is aging out. The reality of our need for immigrants is Becoming more obvious. Who will provide the Human Resources to keep our status of living (including our colleges and our college
Football teams) going.

Granted the foregoing explanation is a generalization. And people can try to criticize and pick it apart. But the general trends cannot be ignored.

---

My two cents from the Insider thread on the topic, as modified for brevity:

College in the US (including at Cal) are very expensive compared to in other countries, due to the high level of student amenities, activities, entertainment and technology costs).

American schools invest in attractive facilities and student services, which can increase costs that are passed on to students. We build way more expensive, high maintenance buildings in comparison to other countries. American schools have way more expensive administrators, a fair amount of which is for compliance with governmental mandates to be eligible for federal and state money. Americans tend to view college partly as a fun time to "try out" adult hood, so competing colleges respond with ever nicer services, programs, athletics and other activities for students to enjoy, and American parents in the past seem willing to underwrite these costs. Higher college costs in the US prices tend to be followed by ever more generous government supported financial aid; thus, raising prices tends to be a bit of a race between schools to capture more of the government aide pie. This doesn't help students who don't qualify for aide, and one would expect, as certain degrees may be less value relative to college costs, parents are reconsidering the value of the American college education.

Specifically to athletics, American college athletics is on an astronomically different scale where events often are well attended, athletes may receive scholarships, preference in admissions, NIL, media attention, and training for professional or Olympic aspirations, which generally is not the case outside the US.

---

College campus housing and recreation centers are the modern equivalent of the Cold War arms race. At every campus, they were a featured part of the tour and all were new and gorgeous. When we did the California campus tour routine with our oldest son, the only school where the student guide didn't even mention the rec center was Berkeley. My favorite line, however, was at Cal Poly where a parent asked about the difficulty of graduating in four years due to impacted classes and the student guide suavely replied, "Well, we like to say that graduating in four years at Cal Poly is like leaving the party at 9PM". In spite of this, our two sons went there, had a great time, and did graduate in four years.

I agree that the recreation and food service that my son enjoyed are leap years ahead of what I got. However, there must have been free architectural dorm plans in the 1950s because when I dropped my son off at his New York up state college, the dorm was identical to my California college dorm. The only change was that the showers had curtains which they did not in the 1970s!

Title IX has been a slow poison to many collegiate athletic programs, including Cal.

HearstMining said:

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BearoutEast67 said:

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Reductions are occuring not just at the university level but with K-12 schools in Red states. I'm not sure that private and charter schools will be able to offer athletic programs to prepare football and basketball athletes to play at the college level.

---

I'm all for high school sports and understand that this can motivate some kids to focus on doing well in school, but is the core purpose of high school (private or public) to prepare football and basketball athletes to play at the college level?

---

I'm not claiming that. Are you?

HearstMining said:

---

wifeisafurd said:

---

GivemTheAxe said:

---

75bear said:

---

BearBoarBlarney said:

---

I was stunned to read that Sonoma State University's enrollment has dropped by 38% since its high in 2015.

I know folks talk about the coming enrollment cliff in higher education, but I didn't realize that some CSU system campuses were feeling it to this extent.

---

In that same time period, Cal Poly Humboldt went from 8,500 to its current 6,000.

People are having fewer kids.

---

Oakland has its own set of problems including a totally incompetent leadership starting with the Mayor (who can't even bother to file a timely application to get millions in State aid for its police)

However Oakland's educational system is in part suffering the same problems that the entire US is suffering- declining enrollment. The Baby Boom was an aberration.
There are different start dates for the Baby Boom. Some have set the date as early as 1944 when couples started marrying earlier some. Have set it at 1945. Currently most have set it at 1946. But by the late 1960's the birth rates were falling precipitously

For over twenty years the US benefited from exponential growth

But throughout most of US history the US benefited from massive amounts of immigrants (documented and undocumented). Contrary to what some politicians say. Those immigrants and their children provided the human resources and drive that made America great.

Those immigrants and their children provided the students who filled up American elementary schools high schools and later colleges.

With the Baby Boom generation. The US did not have a great need for massive immigration.

Now that the Baby Boom generation is aging out. The reality of our need for immigrants is Becoming more obvious. Who will provide the Human Resources to keep our status of living (including our colleges and our college
Football teams) going.

Granted the foregoing explanation is a generalization. And people can try to criticize and pick it apart. But the general trends cannot be ignored.

---

My two cents from the Insider thread on the topic, as modified for brevity:

College in the US (including at Cal) are very expensive compared to in other countries, due to the high level of student amenities, activities, entertainment and technology costs).

American schools invest in attractive facilities and student services, which can increase costs that are passed on to students. We build way more expensive, high maintenance buildings in comparison to other countries. American schools have way more expensive administrators, a fair amount of which is for compliance with governmental mandates to be eligible for federal and state money. Americans tend to view college partly as a fun time to "try out" adult hood, so competing colleges respond with ever nicer services, programs, athletics and other activities for students to enjoy, and American parents in the past seem willing to underwrite these costs. Higher college costs in the US prices tend to be followed by ever more generous government supported financial aid; thus, raising prices tends to be a bit of a race between schools to capture more of the government aide pie. This doesn't help students who don't qualify for aide, and one would expect, as certain degrees may be less value relative to college costs, parents are reconsidering the value of the American college education.

Specifically to athletics, American college athletics is on an astronomically different scale where events often are well attended, athletes may receive scholarships, preference in admissions, NIL, media attention, and training for professional or Olympic aspirations, which generally is not the case outside the US.

---

College campus housing and recreation centers are the modern equivalent of the Cold War arms race. At every campus, they were a featured part of the tour and all were new and gorgeous. When we did the California campus tour routine with our oldest son, the only school where the student guide didn't even mention the rec center was Berkeley. My favorite line, however, was at Cal Poly where a parent asked about the difficulty of graduating in four years due to impacted classes and the student guide suavely replied, "Well, we like to say that graduating in four years at Cal Poly is like leaving the party at 9PM". In spite of this, our two sons went there, had a great time, and did graduate in four years.

---

I agree with some of the things in many of the foregoing posts.
But we must realize
1. The difficulties mentioned are there for a large number of US colleges (and junior colleges) not just the high priced colleges that pamper students

2. many non-third world countries are having similar difficulties to those in the US with declining student populations

3. Maybe the reason that some US colleges are spending so much money trying to impress and attract students is that there are so fewer students to attract.

In analyzing the problem We must ask ourselves: What factor is the cause? And what factor is the effect?

peterprescott said:

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Focus should be on their construction management major and related trades. Everyone would get a job.

---

I have been a lawyer for 49 years and have lived through five recessions. In each of those recessions the construction industry suffered massive layoffs which continued for several years. Then followed by periods of resurgence that started slowly (meaning: re- hiring started slowly)

Yes many people (not everyone) could get jobs if they studied construction management (or many other trade skills that are related to construction) but those who do should put aside a sizable rainy day fund to carry them through the recessions that happened on average every 10 years.

The recent run of prosperity was predicted to crash in 2021. It was staved off by huge government spending that had the negative effect of spiking inflation.
But we shouldn't count of perpetual prosperity in the construction (or many/most other) field (s)

75bear said:

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BearBoarBlarney said:

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I was stunned to read that Sonoma State University's enrollment has dropped by 38% since its high in 2015.

I know folks talk about the coming enrollment cliff in higher education, but I didn't realize that some CSU system campuses were feeling it to this extent.

---

In that same time period, Cal Poly Humboldt went from 8,500 to its current 6,000.

People are having fewer kids.

---

Sonoma State and Cal Poly Humboldt might be feeling the "demographic time bomb" more than most other Cal State campuses because the coastal counties north of SF have a significantly lower percentage of residents under 21 than the counties where most other Cal State campuses are located.

BearoutEast67 said:

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HearstMining said:

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BearoutEast67 said:

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Reductions are occuring not just at the university level but with K-12 schools in Red states. I'm not sure that private and charter schools will be able to offer athletic programs to prepare football and basketball athletes to play at the college level.

---

I'm all for high school sports and understand that this can motivate some kids to focus on doing well in school, but is the core purpose of high school (private or public) to prepare football and basketball athletes to play at the college level?

---

I'm not claiming that. Are you?

---

Maybe I misunderstood your comment about private and charter schools not being able to offer high-level football/basketball. Maybe you were being sarcastic in lamenting this and if so, I missed it and I apologize for that. I wish the site had a special font or something for sarcasm. Personally, I think high school sports are great, but I don't care if they prepare a kid to play the sport in college. So, I think you and I may be on the same page, here.