Pittstop said:

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calumnus said:

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Bobodeluxe said:

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So there is that

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The pundits are clearly not as sanguine about our offseason as this board is.

According to 247 we have 34 outgoing transfers with Mendoza, Ott, Cardwell, Endries, Anderson and Hunter all rated 4 stars (plus The Jet) leaving on offense. We have 37 incoming transfers, with Sagapolutele the only 4 star but most here are expecting Brown to start.

We shall see.

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Tbh, Endries was a lightly recruited walk-on, and Jet was very lightly recruited with Cal being his best offer. Mavin never produced to the level of his hs recruiting profile.

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calbear93 said:

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HearstMining said:

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BearoutEast67 said:

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As a backhanded compliment, the transfer portal seems to be a reflection of Cal's ability to develop most players well. Now, until there's some NIL governance, we need the funds to keep our best players, who will be more likely to stay the more successful our team is.

The Cal degree remains a valued product for student-athletes who are not only focused on NIL money.

Consider this:
Number of High School Football players (2023-2024): 1,118,705
Number of FCS Football players: 14,837
Number of FBS Football players: 18,518
Number of College players invited to the NFL Combine (2025): 329
Number of players drafted into the NFL: 257
The average NFL career length is 3.3 years
Guaranteed NFL Rookie salary (2025): $840, 000.

There's only a 1.7% chance of being drafted into the NFL from an FCS program. And only a 0.022 % chance to make the NFL among high school players. That college degree still matters, as that NIL money will not be enough to support one for a lifetime of living.

---

Too bad most of those players never take a Prob/Stats class . . . they'd rather go with the "never stop reaching for your dream" approach. But to be fair, the demands placed on college players effectively eliminates many college majors for them to consider.

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For many college football players, NIL payments may be the peak of their football earnings.

The stupidity of what CFB has become has allowed me to root more purely for the school itself as opposed to getting emotional about recruiting class or players who are more of a coin operator and rotate in and out of the program based on the best offer.

Now, less passion for, and less knowledge about, the program. But when I watch, I root truly just for the school name on the helmet and assume that the name on the back will be tied to another school name the next year.

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DoubtfulBear said:

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BearlyCareAnymore said:

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HearstMining said:

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BearoutEast67 said:

---

As a backhanded compliment, the transfer portal seems to be a reflection of Cal's ability to develop most players well. Now, until there's some NIL governance, we need the funds to keep our best players, who will be more likely to stay the more successful our team is.

The Cal degree remains a valued product for student-athletes who are not only focused on NIL money.

Consider this:
Number of High School Football players (2023-2024): 1,118,705
Number of FCS Football players: 14,837
Number of FBS Football players: 18,518
Number of College players invited to the NFL Combine (2025): 329
Number of players drafted into the NFL: 257
The average NFL career length is 3.3 years
Guaranteed NFL Rookie salary (2025): $840, 000.

There's only a 1.7% chance of being drafted into the NFL from an FCS program. And only a 0.022 % chance to make the NFL among high school players. That college degree still matters, as that NIL money will not be enough to support one for a lifetime of living.

---

Too bad most of those players never take a Prob/Stats class . . . they'd rather go with the "never stop reaching for your dream" approach. But to be fair, the demands placed on college players effectively eliminates many college majors for them to consider.

---

3. This analysis assumes a Cal degree magically gives one value. It does a little bit. But Cal alums mostly have higher lifetime earnings because they are elite students who choose to succeed academically at an elite level, who are exposed to an elite education and are highly motivated to take advantage of it and then are highly motivated in whatever they do after college.

---

This is such an important point that is constantly underrated on this board. Cal students are successful because they are smart, hard working, resourceful, etc., which are qualities that got them accepted in the first place. It has very little to do with the lectures attended or the piece of paper received at graduation. If you put all Cal students into UCR or Merced, they would still have very high lifetime earnings simply because of who they are.

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DoubtfulBear said:

---

BearoutEast67 said:

---

DoubtfulBear said:

---

BearlyCareAnymore said:

---

HearstMining said:

---

BearoutEast67 said:

---

As a backhanded compliment, the transfer portal seems to be a reflection of Cal's ability to develop most players well. Now, until there's some NIL governance, we need the funds to keep our best players, who will be more likely to stay the more successful our team is.

The Cal degree remains a valued product for student-athletes who are not only focused on NIL money.

Consider this:
Number of High School Football players (2023-2024): 1,118,705
Number of FCS Football players: 14,837
Number of FBS Football players: 18,518
Number of College players invited to the NFL Combine (2025): 329
Number of players drafted into the NFL: 257
The average NFL career length is 3.3 years
Guaranteed NFL Rookie salary (2025): $840, 000.

There's only a 1.7% chance of being drafted into the NFL from an FCS program. And only a 0.022 % chance to make the NFL among high school players. That college degree still matters, as that NIL money will not be enough to support one for a lifetime of living.

---

Too bad most of those players never take a Prob/Stats class . . . they'd rather go with the "never stop reaching for your dream" approach. But to be fair, the demands placed on college players effectively eliminates many college majors for them to consider.

---

3. This analysis assumes a Cal degree magically gives one value. It does a little bit. But Cal alums mostly have higher lifetime earnings because they are elite students who choose to succeed academically at an elite level, who are exposed to an elite education and are highly motivated to take advantage of it and then are highly motivated in whatever they do after college.

---

This is such an important point that is constantly underrated on this board. Cal students are successful because they are smart, hard working, resourceful, etc., which are qualities that got them accepted in the first place. It has very little to do with the lectures attended or the piece of paper received at graduation. If you put all Cal students into UCR or Merced, they would still have very high lifetime earnings simply because of who they are.

---

Not fully true. Yes, Cal students are - as a whole - very intelligent. But it is the "sink-or-swim" competitive nature at Cal that promotes great academic and career paths.

---

I strongly disagree. If anything, the "sink-or-swim" nature has only bred resentment and the reason why I would never donate a single cent to the school. Why would I "pay it forward" when the school has done nothing but treat me as a statistic of 20K undergrads?

Everything I accomplished was in spite of the limited resources the school provided. No academic advisors to guide and counsel on my career path, no rich community of alumni willing to offer internships. Instead, everything was a struggle, like trying to apply for unemployment benefits during a recession.

Every on-campus networking event was like the Hunger Games, where the ratio of students to professionals was 10-1 at best. With students physically jockeying for attention in hopes of getting a first round interview. The Big 3 consulting firms didn't even bother coming to recruit on-campus and you had to go out of your way to hope to apply. Meanwhile my friends at Stanford sleepwalked their way to a great career, armed with support from every direction.

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Bobodeluxe said:

---

DoubtfulBear said:

---

BearoutEast67 said:

---

DoubtfulBear said:

---

BearlyCareAnymore said:

---

HearstMining said:

---

BearoutEast67 said:

---

As a backhanded compliment, the transfer portal seems to be a reflection of Cal's ability to develop most players well. Now, until there's some NIL governance, we need the funds to keep our best players, who will be more likely to stay the more successful our team is.

The Cal degree remains a valued product for student-athletes who are not only focused on NIL money.

Consider this:
Number of High School Football players (2023-2024): 1,118,705
Number of FCS Football players: 14,837
Number of FBS Football players: 18,518
Number of College players invited to the NFL Combine (2025): 329
Number of players drafted into the NFL: 257
The average NFL career length is 3.3 years
Guaranteed NFL Rookie salary (2025): $840, 000.

There's only a 1.7% chance of being drafted into the NFL from an FCS program. And only a 0.022 % chance to make the NFL among high school players. That college degree still matters, as that NIL money will not be enough to support one for a lifetime of living.

---

Too bad most of those players never take a Prob/Stats class . . . they'd rather go with the "never stop reaching for your dream" approach. But to be fair, the demands placed on college players effectively eliminates many college majors for them to consider.

---

3. This analysis assumes a Cal degree magically gives one value. It does a little bit. But Cal alums mostly have higher lifetime earnings because they are elite students who choose to succeed academically at an elite level, who are exposed to an elite education and are highly motivated to take advantage of it and then are highly motivated in whatever they do after college.

---

This is such an important point that is constantly underrated on this board. Cal students are successful because they are smart, hard working, resourceful, etc., which are qualities that got them accepted in the first place. It has very little to do with the lectures attended or the piece of paper received at graduation. If you put all Cal students into UCR or Merced, they would still have very high lifetime earnings simply because of who they are.

---

Not fully true. Yes, Cal students are - as a whole - very intelligent. But it is the "sink-or-swim" competitive nature at Cal that promotes great academic and career paths.

---

I strongly disagree. If anything, the "sink-or-swim" nature has only bred resentment and the reason why I would never donate a single cent to the school. Why would I "pay it forward" when the school has done nothing but treat me as a statistic of 20K undergrads?

Everything I accomplished was in spite of the limited resources the school provided. No academic advisors to guide and counsel on my career path, no rich community of alumni willing to offer internships. Instead, everything was a struggle, like trying to apply for unemployment benefits during a recession.

Every on-campus networking event was like the Hunger Games, where the ratio of students to professionals was 10-1 at best. With students physically jockeying for attention in hopes of getting a first round interview. The Big 3 consulting firms didn't even bother coming to recruit on-campus and you had to go out of your way to hope to apply. Meanwhile my friends at Stanford sleepwalked their way to a great career, armed with support from every direction.

---

lol

The caste system in any state school is basically about previous connections/family wealth. The brahman get benifits comparable to most privates, while the peasantry slog it out. Life.

Why do you hate America?

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HearstMining said:

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BearoutEast67 said:

---

As a backhanded compliment, the transfer portal seems to be a reflection of Cal's ability to develop most players well. Now, until there's some NIL governance, we need the funds to keep our best players, who will be more likely to stay the more successful our team is.

The Cal degree remains a valued product for student-athletes who are not only focused on NIL money.

Consider this:
Number of High School Football players (2023-2024): 1,118,705
Number of FCS Football players: 14,837
Number of FBS Football players: 18,518
Number of College players invited to the NFL Combine (2025): 329
Number of players drafted into the NFL: 257
The average NFL career length is 3.3 years
Guaranteed NFL Rookie salary (2025): $840, 000.

There's only a 1.7% chance of being drafted into the NFL from an FCS program. And only a 0.022 % chance to make the NFL among high school players. That college degree still matters, as that NIL money will not be enough to support one for a lifetime of living.

---

Too bad most of those players never take a Prob/Stats class . . . they'd rather go with the "never stop reaching for your dream" approach. But to be fair, the demands placed on college players effectively eliminates many college majors for them to consider.

---

DoubtfulBear said:

---

BearoutEast67 said:

---

DoubtfulBear said:

---

BearlyCareAnymore said:

---

HearstMining said:

---

BearoutEast67 said:

---

As a backhanded compliment, the transfer portal seems to be a reflection of Cal's ability to develop most players well. Now, until there's some NIL governance, we need the funds to keep our best players, who will be more likely to stay the more successful our team is.

The Cal degree remains a valued product for student-athletes who are not only focused on NIL money.

Consider this:
Number of High School Football players (2023-2024): 1,118,705
Number of FCS Football players: 14,837
Number of FBS Football players: 18,518
Number of College players invited to the NFL Combine (2025): 329
Number of players drafted into the NFL: 257
The average NFL career length is 3.3 years
Guaranteed NFL Rookie salary (2025): $840, 000.

There's only a 1.7% chance of being drafted into the NFL from an FCS program. And only a 0.022 % chance to make the NFL among high school players. That college degree still matters, as that NIL money will not be enough to support one for a lifetime of living.

---

Too bad most of those players never take a Prob/Stats class . . . they'd rather go with the "never stop reaching for your dream" approach. But to be fair, the demands placed on college players effectively eliminates many college majors for them to consider.

---

3. This analysis assumes a Cal degree magically gives one value. It does a little bit. But Cal alums mostly have higher lifetime earnings because they are elite students who choose to succeed academically at an elite level, who are exposed to an elite education and are highly motivated to take advantage of it and then are highly motivated in whatever they do after college.

---

This is such an important point that is constantly underrated on this board. Cal students are successful because they are smart, hard working, resourceful, etc., which are qualities that got them accepted in the first place. It has very little to do with the lectures attended or the piece of paper received at graduation. If you put all Cal students into UCR or Merced, they would still have very high lifetime earnings simply because of who they are.

---

Not fully true. Yes, Cal students are - as a whole - very intelligent. But it is the "sink-or-swim" competitive nature at Cal that promotes great academic and career paths.

---

I strongly disagree. If anything, the "sink-or-swim" nature has only bred resentment and the reason why I would never donate a single cent to the school. Why would I "pay it forward" when the school has done nothing but treat me as a statistic of 20K undergrads?

Everything I accomplished was in spite of the limited resources the school provided. No academic advisors to guide and counsel on my career path, no rich community of alumni willing to offer internships. Instead, everything was a struggle, like trying to apply for unemployment benefits during a recession.

Every on-campus networking event was like the Hunger Games, where the ratio of students to professionals was 10-1 at best. With students physically jockeying for attention in hopes of getting a first round interview. The Big 3 consulting firms didn't even bother coming to recruit on-campus and you had to go out of your way to hope to apply. Meanwhile my friends at Stanford sleepwalked their way to a great career, armed with support from every direction

---

HearstMining said:

---

DoubtfulBear said:

---

BearoutEast67 said:

---

DoubtfulBear said:

---

BearlyCareAnymore said:

---

HearstMining said:

---

BearoutEast67 said:

---

As a backhanded compliment, the transfer portal seems to be a reflection of Cal's ability to develop most players well. Now, until there's some NIL governance, we need the funds to keep our best players, who will be more likely to stay the more successful our team is.

The Cal degree remains a valued product for student-athletes who are not only focused on NIL money.

Consider this:
Number of High School Football players (2023-2024): 1,118,705
Number of FCS Football players: 14,837
Number of FBS Football players: 18,518
Number of College players invited to the NFL Combine (2025): 329
Number of players drafted into the NFL: 257
The average NFL career length is 3.3 years
Guaranteed NFL Rookie salary (2025): $840, 000.

There's only a 1.7% chance of being drafted into the NFL from an FCS program. And only a 0.022 % chance to make the NFL among high school players. That college degree still matters, as that NIL money will not be enough to support one for a lifetime of living.

---

Too bad most of those players never take a Prob/Stats class . . . they'd rather go with the "never stop reaching for your dream" approach. But to be fair, the demands placed on college players effectively eliminates many college majors for them to consider.

---

3. This analysis assumes a Cal degree magically gives one value. It does a little bit. But Cal alums mostly have higher lifetime earnings because they are elite students who choose to succeed academically at an elite level, who are exposed to an elite education and are highly motivated to take advantage of it and then are highly motivated in whatever they do after college.

---

This is such an important point that is constantly underrated on this board. Cal students are successful because they are smart, hard working, resourceful, etc., which are qualities that got them accepted in the first place. It has very little to do with the lectures attended or the piece of paper received at graduation. If you put all Cal students into UCR or Merced, they would still have very high lifetime earnings simply because of who they are.

---

Not fully true. Yes, Cal students are - as a whole - very intelligent. But it is the "sink-or-swim" competitive nature at Cal that promotes great academic and career paths.

---

I strongly disagree. If anything, the "sink-or-swim" nature has only bred resentment and the reason why I would never donate a single cent to the school. Why would I "pay it forward" when the school has done nothing but treat me as a statistic of 20K undergrads?

Everything I accomplished was in spite of the limited resources the school provided. No academic advisors to guide and counsel on my career path, no rich community of alumni willing to offer internships. Instead, everything was a struggle, like trying to apply for unemployment benefits during a recession.

Every on-campus networking event was like the Hunger Games, where the ratio of students to professionals was 10-1 at best. With students physically jockeying for attention in hopes of getting a first round interview. The Big 3 consulting firms didn't even bother coming to recruit on-campus and you had to go out of your way to hope to apply. Meanwhile my friends at Stanford sleepwalked their way to a great career, armed with support from every direction.

---

Your comments do strike a chord even though I graduated in the '70s and it was a different time, but yeah, classes like Econ 1 were an intimate gathering of 700 in PSL and we were just cogs in the machine. And even when I got into upper division engineering courses, a lot of the faculty were only interested in their grad students. Fortunately, there were some exceptions (Jim Kelly for my Engin-36 and Gareth Thomas in my Mat Sci major). There were no networking events back then, just on-campus interviews with companies in the old "T-buildings". And yup, once in your professional life, don't expect any special treatment or even interest from another Cal grad, at least not in tech fields that I inhabited. All in all, it didn't build a lot of sentiment for the dear old alma mater.

I had a different, and better experience when getting an MBA a few years later at Michigan, but we had limited interaction with the university as a whole and maybe it would have been the same with Haas.

I didn't donate to Cal for years but finally started about 20 years ago. Neither of my sons were accepted to Cal and I was secretly happy as I didn't think the environment would be a good match for them. They had great experiences Cal Poly SLO, and subsequently successful careers, at least so far.

EDIT - I don't donate to Cal out of gratitude. I do it because, as a California resident, I think it's important that the university be successful. And no, I don't suppose my few hundred dollars is a huge driver, but I can sleep at night knowing that I contribute something.

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BearlyCareAnymore said:

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HearstMining said:

---

BearoutEast67 said:

---

As a backhanded compliment, the transfer portal seems to be a reflection of Cal's ability to develop most players well. Now, until there's some NIL governance, we need the funds to keep our best players, who will be more likely to stay the more successful our team is.

The Cal degree remains a valued product for student-athletes who are not only focused on NIL money.

Consider this:
Number of High School Football players (2023-2024): 1,118,705
Number of FCS Football players: 14,837
Number of FBS Football players: 18,518
Number of College players invited to the NFL Combine (2025): 329
Number of players drafted into the NFL: 257
The average NFL career length is 3.3 years
Guaranteed NFL Rookie salary (2025): $840, 000.

There's only a 1.7% chance of being drafted into the NFL from an FCS program. And only a 0.022 % chance to make the NFL among high school players. That college degree still matters, as that NIL money will not be enough to support one for a lifetime of living.

---

Too bad most of those players never take a Prob/Stats class . . . they'd rather go with the "never stop reaching for your dream" approach. But to be fair, the demands placed on college players effectively eliminates many college majors for them to consider.

---

The college football world has passed you guys by. This argument is completely faulty in today's world. In fact, it cuts against you.

1. If there is only a 1.7% chance of being drafted all the more reason you need to maximize your earning coming from alums who are willing to pay you way more than your market value to where their universities logo. If we were talking about a guy choosing between $50K or a better degree, you guys might be right. Those aren't the guys we are talking about. When you are getting into 6 or 7 figures, as we are talking about here, the obvious smart play is to take the bird in the hand. If a guy gets $1m today and invests it with a piddly 5% return, he is looking at retiring with $7M. It's not like he will have no job after college. A lot of these guys will never earn the money that is being thrown at them outside of football even over a lifelong career. To say that NIL money won't last forever seems to be naive to what these guys are getting paid.

2. There may be a 1.7% chance ON AVERAGE that a guy gets drafted from an FCS program. But the 5th string CB at SJSU does not have the same chance as a starting QB in the Big Ten. We are talking about players on the high end. They have a much greater chance of being drafted. Do you think Marshawn Lynch had a 1.7% chance of getting drafted? And, not coincidentally, programs that pay more for players also generally offer a better chance to get to the next level. So they are maximizing both their current income and their chance of succeeding in their chosen field.

3. This analysis assumes a Cal degree magically gives one value. It does a little bit. But Cal alums mostly have higher lifetime earnings because they are elite students who choose to succeed academically at an elite level, who are exposed to an elite education and are highly motivated to take advantage of it and then are highly motivated in whatever they do after college. To the extent that is not you, you serious devalue the impact of that degree. Most football players are not elite students who are highly motivated to take advantage of the education and skills a high level academic institution can give them. They are highly motivated ATHLETES who are highly motivated to take advantage of the skills a high level athletic institution can give them. Most of these guys at the highest level are professional football players who are maximizing their football value, not their academic value. The value of an elite education at a school where they are practicing football is flat out lower for most of them.

The differential value between a Cal education and a Nebraska/Indiana/Texas education for someone who is mostly practicing football is simply not going to make up for a significant differential in pay and exposure and better football training. I don't know what the comparative NIL offers were for some of the high end players we lost, but with the dollars we are throwing around I think it is a hard argument to say you don't maximize your earnings now instead of choosing a path that may or may not make up the difference over 40 years. The lost opportunity cost on the investment alone is going to swamp the extra money they can make in a better nonfootball job that they might be able to make with a more elite education.

I think if these were your kids instead of guys you wish would play on your football team, you would suddenly see the wisdom of their decisions.

Again, there is a level at which your argument might still make sense. It is not the level that moves the needle on an ESPN analysis of how we did this offseason. ESPN cares that we lost Ott, Jet, Mendoza, Endries, not whether we lost guys who won't command large NIL payments.

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BearoutEast67 said:

---

BearlyCareAnymore said:

---

HearstMining said:

---

BearoutEast67 said:

---

As a backhanded compliment, the transfer portal seems to be a reflection of Cal's ability to develop most players well. Now, until there's some NIL governance, we need the funds to keep our best players, who will be more likely to stay the more successful our team is.

The Cal degree remains a valued product for student-athletes who are not only focused on NIL money.

Consider this:
Number of High School Football players (2023-2024): 1,118,705
Number of FCS Football players: 14,837
Number of FBS Football players: 18,518
Number of College players invited to the NFL Combine (2025): 329
Number of players drafted into the NFL: 257
The average NFL career length is 3.3 years
Guaranteed NFL Rookie salary (2025): $840, 000.

There's only a 1.7% chance of being drafted into the NFL from an FCS program. And only a 0.022 % chance to make the NFL among high school players. That college degree still matters, as that NIL money will not be enough to support one for a lifetime of living.

---

Too bad most of those players never take a Prob/Stats class . . . they'd rather go with the "never stop reaching for your dream" approach. But to be fair, the demands placed on college players effectively eliminates many college majors for them to consider.

---

The college football world has passed you guys by. This argument is completely faulty in today's world. In fact, it cuts against you.

1. If there is only a 1.7% chance of being drafted all the more reason you need to maximize your earning coming from alums who are willing to pay you way more than your market value to where their universities logo. If we were talking about a guy choosing between $50K or a better degree, you guys might be right. Those aren't the guys we are talking about. When you are getting into 6 or 7 figures, as we are talking about here, the obvious smart play is to take the bird in the hand. If a guy gets $1m today and invests it with a piddly 5% return, he is looking at retiring with $7M. It's not like he will have no job after college. A lot of these guys will never earn the money that is being thrown at them outside of football even over a lifelong career. To say that NIL money won't last forever seems to be naive to what these guys are getting paid.

2. There may be a 1.7% chance ON AVERAGE that a guy gets drafted from an FCS program. But the 5th string CB at SJSU does not have the same chance as a starting QB in the Big Ten. We are talking about players on the high end. They have a much greater chance of being drafted. Do you think Marshawn Lynch had a 1.7% chance of getting drafted? And, not coincidentally, programs that pay more for players also generally offer a better chance to get to the next level. So they are maximizing both their current income and their chance of succeeding in their chosen field.

3. This analysis assumes a Cal degree magically gives one value. It does a little bit. But Cal alums mostly have higher lifetime earnings because they are elite students who choose to succeed academically at an elite level, who are exposed to an elite education and are highly motivated to take advantage of it and then are highly motivated in whatever they do after college. To the extent that is not you, you serious devalue the impact of that degree. Most football players are not elite students who are highly motivated to take advantage of the education and skills a high level academic institution can give them. They are highly motivated ATHLETES who are highly motivated to take advantage of the skills a high level athletic institution can give them. Most of these guys at the highest level are professional football players who are maximizing their football value, not their academic value. The value of an elite education at a school where they are practicing football is flat out lower for most of them.

The differential value between a Cal education and a Nebraska/Indiana/Texas education for someone who is mostly practicing football is simply not going to make up for a significant differential in pay and exposure and better football training. I don't know what the comparative NIL offers were for some of the high end players we lost, but with the dollars we are throwing around I think it is a hard argument to say you don't maximize your earnings now instead of choosing a path that may or may not make up the difference over 40 years. The lost opportunity cost on the investment alone is going to swamp the extra money they can make in a better nonfootball job that they might be able to make with a more elite education.

I think if these were your kids instead of guys you wish would play on your football team, you would suddenly see the wisdom of their decisions.

Again, there is a level at which your argument might still make sense. It is not the level that moves the needle on an ESPN analysis of how we did this offseason. ESPN cares that we lost Ott, Jet, Mendoza, Endries, not whether we lost guys who won't command large NIL payments.

---

I don't think Cal football should be steered by what ESPN thinks. Those idiots and FOX helped create this current college football mess. If my son were in the mix, h@ll no would I encourage him to think in your one-track manner. Always, always, develop 2-4 options for your future.

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GivemTheAxe said:

---

HearstMining said:

---

DoubtfulBear said:

---

BearoutEast67 said:

---

DoubtfulBear said:

---

BearlyCareAnymore said:

---

HearstMining said:

---

BearoutEast67 said:

---

As a backhanded compliment, the transfer portal seems to be a reflection of Cal's ability to develop most players well. Now, until there's some NIL governance, we need the funds to keep our best players, who will be more likely to stay the more successful our team is.

The Cal degree remains a valued product for student-athletes who are not only focused on NIL money.

Consider this:
Number of High School Football players (2023-2024): 1,118,705
Number of FCS Football players: 14,837
Number of FBS Football players: 18,518
Number of College players invited to the NFL Combine (2025): 329
Number of players drafted into the NFL: 257
The average NFL career length is 3.3 years
Guaranteed NFL Rookie salary (2025): $840, 000.

There's only a 1.7% chance of being drafted into the NFL from an FCS program. And only a 0.022 % chance to make the NFL among high school players. That college degree still matters, as that NIL money will not be enough to support one for a lifetime of living.

---

Too bad most of those players never take a Prob/Stats class . . . they'd rather go with the "never stop reaching for your dream" approach. But to be fair, the demands placed on college players effectively eliminates many college majors for them to consider.

---

3. This analysis assumes a Cal degree magically gives one value. It does a little bit. But Cal alums mostly have higher lifetime earnings because they are elite students who choose to succeed academically at an elite level, who are exposed to an elite education and are highly motivated to take advantage of it and then are highly motivated in whatever they do after college.

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This is such an important point that is constantly underrated on this board. Cal students are successful because they are smart, hard working, resourceful, etc., which are qualities that got them accepted in the first place. It has very little to do with the lectures attended or the piece of paper received at graduation. If you put all Cal students into UCR or Merced, they would still have very high lifetime earnings simply because of who they are.

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Not fully true. Yes, Cal students are - as a whole - very intelligent. But it is the "sink-or-swim" competitive nature at Cal that promotes great academic and career paths.

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I strongly disagree. If anything, the "sink-or-swim" nature has only bred resentment and the reason why I would never donate a single cent to the school. Why would I "pay it forward" when the school has done nothing but treat me as a statistic of 20K undergrads?

Everything I accomplished was in spite of the limited resources the school provided. No academic advisors to guide and counsel on my career path, no rich community of alumni willing to offer internships. Instead, everything was a struggle, like trying to apply for unemployment benefits during a recession.

Every on-campus networking event was like the Hunger Games, where the ratio of students to professionals was 10-1 at best. With students physically jockeying for attention in hopes of getting a first round interview. The Big 3 consulting firms didn't even bother coming to recruit on-campus and you had to go out of your way to hope to apply. Meanwhile my friends at Stanford sleepwalked their way to a great career, armed with support from every direction.

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Your comments do strike a chord even though I graduated in the '70s and it was a different time, but yeah, classes like Econ 1 were an intimate gathering of 700 in PSL and we were just cogs in the machine. And even when I got into upper division engineering courses, a lot of the faculty were only interested in their grad students. Fortunately, there were some exceptions (Jim Kelly for my Engin-36 and Gareth Thomas in my Mat Sci major). There were no networking events back then, just on-campus interviews with companies in the old "T-buildings". And yup, once in your professional life, don't expect any special treatment or even interest from another Cal grad, at least not in tech fields that I inhabited. All in all, it didn't build a lot of sentiment for the dear old alma mater.

I had a different, and better experience when getting an MBA a few years later at Michigan, but we had limited interaction with the university as a whole and maybe it would have been the same with Haas.

I didn't donate to Cal for years but finally started about 20 years ago. Neither of my sons were accepted to Cal and I was secretly happy as I didn't think the environment would be a good match for them. They had great experiences Cal Poly SLO, and subsequently successful careers, at least so far.

EDIT - I don't donate to Cal out of gratitude. I do it because, as a California resident, I think it's important that the university be successful. And no, I don't suppose my few hundred dollars is a huge driver, but I can sleep at night knowing that I contribute something.

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I do volunteer fundraising for Cal. I ask the people I talk to, to give what they can and what they feel comfortable giving. But try to give something once a year.

Many agencies rating colleges take it as a positive sign about how alums feel about their college experiences by how many alums give something. That number is often deemed just as important as how much money do alums give.

All three of my kids graduated from Cal. When each of the graduated I paid for them to join the Alumni Association and encouraged them to give $50 to Cal The year they graduated and to up that amount as their annual salary grew.

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Bobodeluxe said:

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So there is that

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6956bear said:

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BearlyCareAnymore said:

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BearlyCareAnymore said:

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BearoutEast67 said:

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BearlyCareAnymore said:

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HearstMining said:

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BearoutEast67 said:

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As a backhanded compliment, the transfer portal seems to be a reflection of Cal's ability to develop most players well. Now, until there's some NIL governance, we need the funds to keep our best players, who will be more likely to stay the more successful our team is.

The Cal degree remains a valued product for student-athletes who are not only focused on NIL money.

Consider this:
Number of High School Football players (2023-2024): 1,118,705
Number of FCS Football players: 14,837
Number of FBS Football players: 18,518
Number of College players invited to the NFL Combine (2025): 329
Number of players drafted into the NFL: 257
The average NFL career length is 3.3 years
Guaranteed NFL Rookie salary (2025): $840, 000.

There's only a 1.7% chance of being drafted into the NFL from an FCS program. And only a 0.022 % chance to make the NFL among high school players. That college degree still matters, as that NIL money will not be enough to support one for a lifetime of living.

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Too bad most of those players never take a Prob/Stats class . . . they'd rather go with the "never stop reaching for your dream" approach. But to be fair, the demands placed on college players effectively eliminates many college majors for them to consider.

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The college football world has passed you guys by. This argument is completely faulty in today's world. In fact, it cuts against you.

1. If there is only a 1.7% chance of being drafted all the more reason you need to maximize your earning coming from alums who are willing to pay you way more than your market value to where their universities logo. If we were talking about a guy choosing between $50K or a better degree, you guys might be right. Those aren't the guys we are talking about. When you are getting into 6 or 7 figures, as we are talking about here, the obvious smart play is to take the bird in the hand. If a guy gets $1m today and invests it with a piddly 5% return, he is looking at retiring with $7M. It's not like he will have no job after college. A lot of these guys will never earn the money that is being thrown at them outside of football even over a lifelong career. To say that NIL money won't last forever seems to be naive to what these guys are getting paid.

2. There may be a 1.7% chance ON AVERAGE that a guy gets drafted from an FCS program. But the 5th string CB at SJSU does not have the same chance as a starting QB in the Big Ten. We are talking about players on the high end. They have a much greater chance of being drafted. Do you think Marshawn Lynch had a 1.7% chance of getting drafted? And, not coincidentally, programs that pay more for players also generally offer a better chance to get to the next level. So they are maximizing both their current income and their chance of succeeding in their chosen field.

3. This analysis assumes a Cal degree magically gives one value. It does a little bit. But Cal alums mostly have higher lifetime earnings because they are elite students who choose to succeed academically at an elite level, who are exposed to an elite education and are highly motivated to take advantage of it and then are highly motivated in whatever they do after college. To the extent that is not you, you serious devalue the impact of that degree. Most football players are not elite students who are highly motivated to take advantage of the education and skills a high level academic institution can give them. They are highly motivated ATHLETES who are highly motivated to take advantage of the skills a high level athletic institution can give them. Most of these guys at the highest level are professional football players who are maximizing their football value, not their academic value. The value of an elite education at a school where they are practicing football is flat out lower for most of them.

The differential value between a Cal education and a Nebraska/Indiana/Texas education for someone who is mostly practicing football is simply not going to make up for a significant differential in pay and exposure and better football training. I don't know what the comparative NIL offers were for some of the high end players we lost, but with the dollars we are throwing around I think it is a hard argument to say you don't maximize your earnings now instead of choosing a path that may or may not make up the difference over 40 years. The lost opportunity cost on the investment alone is going to swamp the extra money they can make in a better nonfootball job that they might be able to make with a more elite education.

I think if these were your kids instead of guys you wish would play on your football team, you would suddenly see the wisdom of their decisions.

Again, there is a level at which your argument might still make sense. It is not the level that moves the needle on an ESPN analysis of how we did this offseason. ESPN cares that we lost Ott, Jet, Mendoza, Endries, not whether we lost guys who won't command large NIL payments.

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I don't think Cal football should be steered by what ESPN thinks. Those idiots and FOX helped create this current college football mess. If my son were in the mix, h@ll no would I encourage him to think in your one-track manner. Always, always, develop 2-4 options for your future.

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I give you too much credit to think anything but you are kidding yourself because you aren't stupid . If someone offers you $2m today + and more exposure and better training, you don't give up that opportunity to develop more much less value multiple alternatives. The saying isn't 10 birds across 4 potential bushes is worth 2 million birds in the hand.

You absolutely missed 90% of the point. If they want it, they are getting a college education that is worth almost as much to them + they are getting significantly more money.


Again, if it weren't for the fact that the reality of that decision means your football team isn't as good and you care about that a million times more than the value the player gets, you would see that. The attitude of some on this board seems to be that the 99% of college football players who make essentially the same decision are all stupid and if only they weren't such idiots they'd be coming here. Any neutral party would not only say they are making the right decision, they would say they would be damned fools not too.


So the bottom line is that you can convince yourself they are all dumb or you can provide a program with great coaching and administration and exposure plus cash offers that are competitive. Only one of those options works.

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To make this simpler, I would ask everyone here if they would pay $1m to go to Cal instead of another college? Because in asking athletes to forgo that kind of cash, that is exactly what you are doing.


These are no longer the days where we are only comparing the better Cal education to the better Alabama football program and making an argument that the education is worth it. There are actual huge sums of (now above the table) money involved.

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Many of the people on this board never had the ability to play a sport at this level. I played through JC. But when I was advised that my talent was not good enough to play high level I chose the academic path. I did not have the options of playing for many top notch programs. It made it an easy choice.

I had options in baseball (not football) after JC. But none were really good and did not offer full scholarships. But believe me if I would have had better options I likely would have gone for it. Regardless of the academic prestige. I think many do not understand the mindset of the elite athlete. They believe they are delusional. It hurts when somebdy tells you that your playing days are over. I was not an elite player but it still stings when your days are done. Especially when you want to continue.

My son played D1 soccer. He never once got a full scholarship. Those scholies are divided among the entire team. But when faced with making a decision he made a mostly soccer decision. I was not in full agreement though I understand how he felt. What drove the decision.

He chose an easier academic path for what he believed would be a better soccer experience. His life has turned out just fine. He is an environmental scientist making a good living in Washington state. Could he have made more money if he chose a higher academic school? Perhaps. But now these players are faced with taking the money and playing in a high profile program. And guess what if it does not work out as hoped they can now transfer and get paid again and hopefully play.

I was very mediocre in football. But there is nothing quite like a football locker room after a win. if you never lived that it is very hard to understand. I was better at baseball ( by a lot) but it never carried the same excitement or passion.

It is very easy to pick apart decisions made by others, when you have never been in a similar position. So if Cal is to become good at football they will need to commit. The value of the Cal degree is still a thing. But when faced with playing elite football and getting a bag it does not hold up. That is what we see with recruiting all over the nation. The best football programs with the most money win. So yes commit to support, provide good coaching and training, give the program the best exposure possible and provide competitive compensation. That is what the market is showing.

Cal is a great school. It is bad at the revenue sports. There is a reason. It is not bad decisions by potential student athletes it is poor support by the University. Excusing weak coaching and training. It is working to provide the best exposure possible. And now it also involves being competitive in compensation. Today. Not in years down the road when the Cal degree begins to pay dividends.

We have seen what selling the 40 year plan has brought. It has provided years of mediocre or worse teams. If Cal and its fans want more they need to commit to that idea. But it seems to me that Cal is getting exactly what they want. And then complaining that the athletes are just delusional or stupid.

Great athletes want a great experience from their sport. Cal needs to decide if that is what they want to provide or just simply be a participant. The decision is much harder for these athletes today than ever. Many here denigrate the entire NIL process. I am not a big fan but it is here. It is a big part of the decision making process.

Support, coaching and training, exposure and compensation matter. The 40 year plan for high level athletes is no longer the thing it used to be. There are great experiences to be had a lot of places. Cal needs to up its game in athletics. The school is too good to accept the consistent low performing revenue sports programs.

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SBGold said:

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6956bear said:

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BearlyCareAnymore said:

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BearlyCareAnymore said:

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BearoutEast67 said:

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BearlyCareAnymore said:

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HearstMining said:

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BearoutEast67 said:

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As a backhanded compliment, the transfer portal seems to be a reflection of Cal's ability to develop most players well. Now, until there's some NIL governance, we need the funds to keep our best players, who will be more likely to stay the more successful our team is.

The Cal degree remains a valued product for student-athletes who are not only focused on NIL money.

Consider this:
Number of High School Football players (2023-2024): 1,118,705
Number of FCS Football players: 14,837
Number of FBS Football players: 18,518
Number of College players invited to the NFL Combine (2025): 329
Number of players drafted into the NFL: 257
The average NFL career length is 3.3 years
Guaranteed NFL Rookie salary (2025): $840, 000.

There's only a 1.7% chance of being drafted into the NFL from an FCS program. And only a 0.022 % chance to make the NFL among high school players. That college degree still matters, as that NIL money will not be enough to support one for a lifetime of living.

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Too bad most of those players never take a Prob/Stats class . . . they'd rather go with the "never stop reaching for your dream" approach. But to be fair, the demands placed on college players effectively eliminates many college majors for them to consider.

---

The college football world has passed you guys by. This argument is completely faulty in today's world. In fact, it cuts against you.

1. If there is only a 1.7% chance of being drafted all the more reason you need to maximize your earning coming from alums who are willing to pay you way more than your market value to where their universities logo. If we were talking about a guy choosing between $50K or a better degree, you guys might be right. Those aren't the guys we are talking about. When you are getting into 6 or 7 figures, as we are talking about here, the obvious smart play is to take the bird in the hand. If a guy gets $1m today and invests it with a piddly 5% return, he is looking at retiring with $7M. It's not like he will have no job after college. A lot of these guys will never earn the money that is being thrown at them outside of football even over a lifelong career. To say that NIL money won't last forever seems to be naive to what these guys are getting paid.

2. There may be a 1.7% chance ON AVERAGE that a guy gets drafted from an FCS program. But the 5th string CB at SJSU does not have the same chance as a starting QB in the Big Ten. We are talking about players on the high end. They have a much greater chance of being drafted. Do you think Marshawn Lynch had a 1.7% chance of getting drafted? And, not coincidentally, programs that pay more for players also generally offer a better chance to get to the next level. So they are maximizing both their current income and their chance of succeeding in their chosen field.

3. This analysis assumes a Cal degree magically gives one value. It does a little bit. But Cal alums mostly have higher lifetime earnings because they are elite students who choose to succeed academically at an elite level, who are exposed to an elite education and are highly motivated to take advantage of it and then are highly motivated in whatever they do after college. To the extent that is not you, you serious devalue the impact of that degree. Most football players are not elite students who are highly motivated to take advantage of the education and skills a high level academic institution can give them. They are highly motivated ATHLETES who are highly motivated to take advantage of the skills a high level athletic institution can give them. Most of these guys at the highest level are professional football players who are maximizing their football value, not their academic value. The value of an elite education at a school where they are practicing football is flat out lower for most of them.

The differential value between a Cal education and a Nebraska/Indiana/Texas education for someone who is mostly practicing football is simply not going to make up for a significant differential in pay and exposure and better football training. I don't know what the comparative NIL offers were for some of the high end players we lost, but with the dollars we are throwing around I think it is a hard argument to say you don't maximize your earnings now instead of choosing a path that may or may not make up the difference over 40 years. The lost opportunity cost on the investment alone is going to swamp the extra money they can make in a better nonfootball job that they might be able to make with a more elite education.

I think if these were your kids instead of guys you wish would play on your football team, you would suddenly see the wisdom of their decisions.

Again, there is a level at which your argument might still make sense. It is not the level that moves the needle on an ESPN analysis of how we did this offseason. ESPN cares that we lost Ott, Jet, Mendoza, Endries, not whether we lost guys who won't command large NIL payments.

---

I don't think Cal football should be steered by what ESPN thinks. Those idiots and FOX helped create this current college football mess. If my son were in the mix, h@ll no would I encourage him to think in your one-track manner. Always, always, develop 2-4 options for your future.

---

I give you too much credit to think anything but you are kidding yourself because you aren't stupid . If someone offers you $2m today + and more exposure and better training, you don't give up that opportunity to develop more much less value multiple alternatives. The saying isn't 10 birds across 4 potential bushes is worth 2 million birds in the hand.

You absolutely missed 90% of the point. If they want it, they are getting a college education that is worth almost as much to them + they are getting significantly more money.


Again, if it weren't for the fact that the reality of that decision means your football team isn't as good and you care about that a million times more than the value the player gets, you would see that. The attitude of some on this board seems to be that the 99% of college football players who make essentially the same decision are all stupid and if only they weren't such idiots they'd be coming here. Any neutral party would not only say they are making the right decision, they would say they would be damned fools not too.


So the bottom line is that you can convince yourself they are all dumb or you can provide a program with great coaching and administration and exposure plus cash offers that are competitive. Only one of those options works.

---

To make this simpler, I would ask everyone here if they would pay $1m to go to Cal instead of another college? Because in asking athletes to forgo that kind of cash, that is exactly what you are doing.


These are no longer the days where we are only comparing the better Cal education to the better Alabama football program and making an argument that the education is worth it. There are actual huge sums of (now above the table) money involved.

---

Many of the people on this board never had the ability to play a sport at this level. I played through JC. But when I was advised that my talent was not good enough to play high level I chose the academic path. I did not have the options of playing for many top notch programs. It made it an easy choice.

I had options in baseball (not football) after JC. But none were really good and did not offer full scholarships. But believe me if I would have had better options I likely would have gone for it. Regardless of the academic prestige. I think many do not understand the mindset of the elite athlete. They believe they are delusional. It hurts when somebdy tells you that your playing days are over. I was not an elite player but it still stings when your days are done. Especially when you want to continue.

My son played D1 soccer. He never once got a full scholarship. Those scholies are divided among the entire team. But when faced with making a decision he made a mostly soccer decision. I was not in full agreement though I understand how he felt. What drove the decision.

He chose an easier academic path for what he believed would be a better soccer experience. His life has turned out just fine. He is an environmental scientist making a good living in Washington state. Could he have made more money if he chose a higher academic school? Perhaps. But now these players are faced with taking the money and playing in a high profile program. And guess what if it does not work out as hoped they can now transfer and get paid again and hopefully play.

I was very mediocre in football. But there is nothing quite like a football locker room after a win. if you never lived that it is very hard to understand. I was better at baseball ( by a lot) but it never carried the same excitement or passion.

It is very easy to pick apart decisions made by others, when you have never been in a similar position. So if Cal is to become good at football they will need to commit. The value of the Cal degree is still a thing. But when faced with playing elite football and getting a bag it does not hold up. That is what we see with recruiting all over the nation. The best football programs with the most money win. So yes commit to support, provide good coaching and training, give the program the best exposure possible and provide competitive compensation. That is what the market is showing.

Cal is a great school. It is bad at the revenue sports. There is a reason. It is not bad decisions by potential student athletes it is poor support by the University. Excusing weak coaching and training. It is working to provide the best exposure possible. And now it also involves being competitive in compensation. Today. Not in years down the road when the Cal degree begins to pay dividends.

We have seen what selling the 40 year plan has brought. It has provided years of mediocre or worse teams. If Cal and its fans want more they need to commit to that idea. But it seems to me that Cal is getting exactly what they want. And then complaining that the athletes are just delusional or stupid.

Great athletes want a great experience from their sport. Cal needs to decide if that is what they want to provide or just simply be a participant. The decision is much harder for these athletes today than ever. Many here denigrate the entire NIL process. I am not a big fan but it is here. It is a big part of the decision making process.

Support, coaching and training, exposure and compensation matter. The 40 year plan for high level athletes is no longer the thing it used to be. There are great experiences to be had a lot of places. Cal needs to up its game in athletics. The school is too good to accept the consistent low performing revenue sports programs.

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we have decided to just be a participant for far too long. I'm just tired of accepting mediocrity here in athletics when we do not in other parts of the University (which is rightly so).

Go Bears Forever

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