Great job, Jake! Turnovers, special teams mistakes, and key injuries (Kittle/Jennings), and still brought home a big win.

pingpong2 said:

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Shanny says that Kittle will be out multiple weeks, so it looks like Tonges is going to get a lot of run as the pass-catching TE for the next few weeks.

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Purdy is out, too.

Bobodeluxe said:

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pingpong2 said:

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Shanny says that Kittle will be out multiple weeks, so it looks like Tonges is going to get a lot of run as the pass-catching TE for the next few weeks.

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Purdy is out, too.

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The official statement from the Niners is that Purdy is "questionable" for the New Orleans game. Kittle is out 1 to 2 weeks.

sycasey said:

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Golden One said:

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pingpong2 said:

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Jake Tonges >>>>>>>>>>> Jake Moody

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Jake Moody needs to be cut. He is a head case with a very unreliable leg. He sucks!

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Example #1 for why you don't spend high draft picks on kickers.

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I generally agree but I don't have a huge issue with it in principle, but you damn sure better be right. If you land a Ray Guy, or Janikowski, or Bryan Anger then your fans will be upset at the investment at first but get over it. If you draft Roberto Aguayo or Jake Moody then you will never live it down. That sounds pedantic because it's true for every position but the point still stands. Like early RBs in the first round in the modern era: Derrick Henry or Saquan Barkley? Cool. Trent Richardson? Good luck in your career in whatever future industry you go into outside of football. IOL is the same way, they are the lesser valued positions but if you hit on a generational talent no one is going to give you guff

Bearly Clad said:

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sycasey said:

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Golden One said:

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pingpong2 said:

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Jake Tonges >>>>>>>>>>> Jake Moody

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Jake Moody needs to be cut. He is a head case with a very unreliable leg. He sucks!

---

Example #1 for why you don't spend high draft picks on kickers.

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I generally agree but I don't have a huge issue with it in principle, but you damn sure better be right. If you land a Ray Guy, or Janikowski, or Bryan Anger then your fans will be upset at the investment at first but get over it. If you draft Roberto Aguayo or Jake Moody then you will never live it down. That sounds pedantic because it's true for every position but the point still stands. Like early RBs in the first round in the modern era: Derrick Henry or Saquan Barkley? Cool. Trent Richardson? Good luck in your career in whatever future industry you go into outside of football. IOL is the same way, they are the lesser valued positions but if you hit on a generational talent no one is going to give you guff

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I think the difference is that a "generational talent" at kicker doesn't actually move the needle for your team that much. You can get real difference-makers at any other position but for a kicker you just kind of want them to be reliable and otherwise invisible.

sycasey said:

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Bearly Clad said:

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sycasey said:

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Golden One said:

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pingpong2 said:

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Jake Tonges >>>>>>>>>>> Jake Moody

---

Jake Moody needs to be cut. He is a head case with a very unreliable leg. He sucks!

---

Example #1 for why you don't spend high draft picks on kickers.

---

I generally agree but I don't have a huge issue with it in principle, but you damn sure better be right. If you land a Ray Guy, or Janikowski, or Bryan Anger then your fans will be upset at the investment at first but get over it. If you draft Roberto Aguayo or Jake Moody then you will never live it down. That sounds pedantic because it's true for every position but the point still stands. Like early RBs in the first round in the modern era: Derrick Henry or Saquan Barkley? Cool. Trent Richardson? Good luck in your career in whatever future industry you go into outside of football. IOL is the same way, they are the lesser valued positions but if you hit on a generational talent no one is going to give you guff

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I think the difference is that a "generational talent" at kicker doesn't actually move the needle for your team that much. You can get real difference-makers at any other position but for a kicker you just kind of want them to be reliable and otherwise invisible.

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Idk if I agree with that. If you land a top kicker like Viniateri or Justin Tucker (as $h!tty of a human as he is) how many games do they win you? Being the difference between missing the playoffs or making it, turning wild card teams into home playoff teams, changing a close playoff loss into a win with a long FG and reliable consistency on shorter FGs has major value on the margins. And punters who can give massive hangtime and hit the coffin corners forcing teams to march 90+ yards or boom a 70 yarder over the returner's head out of their own endzone are incredibly valuable, albeit significantly moreso when you're a team built with a great defense and playing the field position game.

They're not necessarily more valuable than an elite LT, DE, or ballhawking DB but they can absolutely be the consistent difference in 1-2 games a year and close games in the playoffs. For positions that can play 15 years before dropping off that's a huge impact on team success during that period. Will they turn a good team into a contender single-handedly? No. But for an already great team they can be the difference between 1-3 shots at a title and repeated disappointment.

Edit: Just to add on, Viniateri was the difference between the Pats losing several of their early super bowls and AFCCGs and being the dynasty they became. Lack of kicking was the difference between LSJU in the Luck years losing the Orange Bowl and the Rose Bowl or competing for National Championships

Why didn't 49ers simply re-sign Robbie Gold

sycasey said:

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Not sure if that was a brilliant or stupid play by Brock Purdy, but let's go Jake!

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Brock Purdy needs to purchase for Jake Tonges one of those vehicles he got his linemen!
Tonges made a fantastic move/jump to get to that ball, and to catch it.
It could have ended up intercepted, with the 49ers not able to even tie the game with a FG in the event of an incompletion.
In other words, Purdy almost completely ruined the game. Instead, Tonges completely won the game!!

It was an incredibly stupid pass. Brock would have been excoriated for his losing 3 INT game. Instead, he was praised for his winning TD pass. Gimme a break - Tonges saved him, BIG TIME!

Jake Tonges was like 6'8" on that play.

Born July 8, 1999 (age 26) Cincinnati, Ohio, U.S.
Height, 6 ft 4 in
Weight, 240 lb

Pearsall needs to not tell folks in the postgame interview that he learned from someone else to push off on the the DB at the end before the ball arrives to create space. That's possibly a flag for offensive PI. Yet, he bragged about it.
Dark arts, don't reveal the secret sauce.

Bearly Clad said:

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sycasey said:

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Bearly Clad said:

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sycasey said:

---

Golden One said:

---

pingpong2 said:

---

Jake Tonges >>>>>>>>>>> Jake Moody

---

Jake Moody needs to be cut. He is a head case with a very unreliable leg. He sucks!

---

Example #1 for why you don't spend high draft picks on kickers.

---

I generally agree but I don't have a huge issue with it in principle, but you damn sure better be right. If you land a Ray Guy, or Janikowski, or Bryan Anger then your fans will be upset at the investment at first but get over it. If you draft Roberto Aguayo or Jake Moody then you will never live it down. That sounds pedantic because it's true for every position but the point still stands. Like early RBs in the first round in the modern era: Derrick Henry or Saquan Barkley? Cool. Trent Richardson? Good luck in your career in whatever future industry you go into outside of football. IOL is the same way, they are the lesser valued positions but if you hit on a generational talent no one is going to give you guff

---

I think the difference is that a "generational talent" at kicker doesn't actually move the needle for your team that much. You can get real difference-makers at any other position but for a kicker you just kind of want them to be reliable and otherwise invisible.

---

Idk if I agree with that. If you land a top kicker like Viniateri or Justin Tucker (as $h!tty of a human as he is) how many games do they win you? Being the difference between missing the playoffs or making it, turning wild card teams into home playoff teams, changing a close playoff loss into a win with a long FG and reliable consistency on shorter FGs has major value on the margins. And punters who can give massive hangtime and hit the coffin corners forcing teams to march 90+ yards or boom a 70 yarder over the returner's head out of their own endzone are incredibly valuable, albeit significantly moreso when you're a team built with a great defense and playing the field position game.

They're not necessarily more valuable than an elite LT, DE, or ballhawking DB but they can absolutely be the consistent difference in 1-2 games a year and close games in the playoffs. For positions that can play 15 years before dropping off that's a huge impact on team success during that period. Will they turn a good team into a contender single-handedly? No. But for an already great team they can be the difference between 1-3 shots at a title and repeated disappointment.

Edit: Just to add on, Viniateri was the difference between the Pats losing several of their early super bowls and AFCCGs and being the dynasty they became. Lack of kicking was the difference between LSJU in the Luck years losing the Orange Bowl and the Rose Bowl or competing for National Championships

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I agree that a great kicker can be important on the margins, but to take your two examples . . . Vinatieri and Tucker were both undrafted players. The other most accurate kickers in the game right now are Harrison Butker (7th round pick) and Chris Boswell (undrafted). That's the larger point. You don't need to spend a high pick on one.

100%. I'm just saying that if you *do* invest high in a kicker it's not a bad investment as long as you're right. Interestingly kickers in the first 4 rounds have a 70% career average while undrafted kickers have a 77% career average. There's common sense context to that though. If a team drafts a kicker high they expect them they expect them to start right away and will try to stick with them through rough play to get ROI. An undrafted kicker has to perform well to win the job and a single bad stretch or even horrible single moment is justification enough to bench or cut them

Bearly Clad said:

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100%. I'm just saying that if you *do* invest high in a kicker it's not a bad investment as long as you're right. Interestingly kickers in the first 4 rounds have a 70% career average while undrafted kickers have a 77% career average. There's common sense context to that though. If a team drafts a kicker high they expect them they expect them to start right away and will try to stick with them through rough play to get ROI. An undrafted kicker has to perform well to win the job and a single bad stretch or even horrible single moment is justification enough to bench or cut them

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Yup, that's the issue exactly. "Sunk cost fallacy" comes in pretty heavily with a kicker you drafted high.

I just think that with kickers there's a lot of similarity on the physical traits: there are more than enough guys with strong legs and enough accuracy in practice to fill the available NFL jobs. It's not like at other positions where there legitimately are guys who are bigger, stronger, faster, and you can measure that. The difference between kickers is on the mental side, which is extremely hard to measure until you actually get them on the field. So you probably shouldn't be spending high draft capital on them when so many great ones come to the league without their teams needing to spend that.

You could actually make similar arguments about quarterbacks (that the mental side is way more important, once the guy has a basic minimum of physical traits), and that being why it's so hard to land a good one in the draft. Sunk cost fallacy also rears its head a lot with the QBs that get drafted high. But with QBs I get the logic on drafting one high . . . if you get a great one, the effect on your whole team is so exponentially great that it's worth taking the risk. With kickers, not so much.