This message board and the current state of Cal Football

10,192 Views | 130 Replies | Last: 9 days ago by going4roses
BearGreg
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This has to be a safe place for venting, sharing feelings, thoughts and ideas. Right now, we're teetering on losing against that requirement. Incessant posting is not okay. Attacking others is not okay. And we're getting too close to using this board in ways that are so far from the intent of BearInsider. Specifically, creating straw man arguments and if then statements designed to inflame or defame people.

Enough! We're going to start seriously moderating this forum, something we've never had to do since I've owned it. I know that this community can behave better and expect it to do so.

On the topics de jour:

Does Cal take football seriously? What recent signs might tell us whether they do or not? The Regents hired Rich Lyons as the Chancellor and part of his vetting process was based on his knowledge and ideas about Athletics. Rich Lyons hired Ron Rivera. Jim Knowlton was let go. Ron Rivera was given full control of all things related to Football.

Donations are way, way up, new large donors have come forward. The amount of money being spent on Football relative to Cal's peers is significantly improved.

Judge for yourself whether the above means anything. I know very clearly the conclusions that I draw.

Meanwhile, the football team is 5-3 against a very weak schedule. The team has a lot of hallmarks of not being well coached - penalties, tackling, dropped passes, slow or inadequate defensive adjustments as well some markers that there's some good things happening - recruited a generational talent at QB, a top tier pass defense despite the loss of the starting Safety and the teams best edge player, improved Special teams, etc.

Cal has a coach in his ninth season. The record is what it is. Ron Rivera is super aware of that record and also painfully aware of how screwed up the administration was around football. When he talks about the latter, it's not an excuse, it's a reality. It's only an excuse if he believes that Wilcox record is what it is entirely because of that lack of support. Ron and Chancellor Lyons are very bright, rational and well informed people that have big ambitions for this program and have set a high bar for it which they've been explicit about.

Ron is on the record saying he wants to evaluate Wilcox, now that he has administrative support, based on his full season of work. Some clearly do not agree with that. The one thing you get with a midseason firing is temporary relief from the anxiety, anger and frustration you may be feeling. While I can understand that motivation, that doesn't mean it's the right answer.

BUT. HERE"S THE REALITY - The ONLY THING that really matters is how capable is the coaching staff and how talented is the roster of the Cal Football Team in 2026. That's it. The rest is just noise. Sure, you can have some PR and marketing wins or losses between now and knowing whether the above is true, but it's ephemeral and in the end insignificant.

Take a deep breath and understand that a.) Wow, I really care and feel deeply about this otherwise I wouldn't be posting and reading messages that convey this much emotion; b.) I have to decide for myself how I feel about watching and attending games the rest of this season and hopefully I can respect others choices on this matter without judgment. c.) As a stakeholder - donor, season ticket holder, avid fan - I won't know whether I believe in this program until it's clear who the coach will be and how talented the roster will be for 2026 and even then I won't really know until the 2026 season has played out and perhaps even beyond that. d.). I can be aware that other people, significant donors and school leadership are going to be the real influencers of how things play out. Am I communicating to those people in a way that is likely to persuade them of something or am I ranting because I need a place to vent and can I distinguish between those two things?
75bear
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Thank you for posting this.

Perhaps the first step in moderation can be to prevent the 18th new thread about Wilcox. They all say the same thing, and from all of the same posters.

I believe in free speech, but not for a member spamming the board with the same take over and over and over again.

We're all frustrated, me included. I still have hope Ron will do the right thing over the next month.
TandemBear
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The reason there are 18+ threads about dumping Wilcox is because of Cal's inability to get rid of this dead weight! Not only has Cal not fired him, they extended him with an absurdly onerous contract that may have doomed the program.

Sorry if the fanbase is frustrated. I see it as a good thing - it shows anyone listening just how fed up everyone is. Anyone in admin better be following BI to see the true sentiments of Cal's most ardent followers. Censoring these sentiments would be an outrage, especially at the origin of the Free Speech Movement.

Not reading all these "Fire Wilcox!" threads would be dereliction of duty and cause for termination in my book!
sycasey
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TandemBear said:

The reason there are 18+ threads about dumping Wilcox is because of Cal's inability to get rid of this dead weight! Not only has Cal not fired him, they extended him with an absurdly onerous contract that may have doomed the program.

Quite true, but this goes back to the screwed-up administration (as described by Greg) that preceded the current Lyons/Rivera regime. It's fair to give them time to clean this up and to dig out of the hole Knowlton put them in.
75bear
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TandemBear said:

The reason there are 18+ threads about dumping Wilcox is because of Cal's inability to get rid of this dead weight! Not only has Cal not fired him, they extended him with an absurdly onerous contract that may have doomed the program.

Sorry if the fanbase is frustrated. I see it as a good thing - it shows anyone listening just how fed up everyone is. Anyone in admin better be following BI to see the true sentiments of Cal's most ardent followers. Censoring these sentiments would be an outrage, especially at the origin of the Free Speech Movement.

Not reading all these "Fire Wilcox!" threads would be dereliction of duty and cause for termination in my book!
Nobody is saying there shouldn't be a Fire Wilcox thread - free speech is obviously a necessity.

Your first paragraph illustrates the issue - I've seen you post these exact same sentiments over and over again. We all get it - we know how you feel.
Alkiadt
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sycasey said:

TandemBear said:

The reason there are 18+ threads about dumping Wilcox is because of Cal's inability to get rid of this dead weight! Not only has Cal not fired him, they extended him with an absurdly onerous contract that may have doomed the program.

Quite true, but this goes back to the screwed-up administration (as described by Greg) that preceded the current Lyons/Rivera regime. It's fair to give them time to clean this up and to dig out of the hole Knowlton put them in.


That hole has been growing under multiple chancellors for the past 6 decades that ignored and even disdained athletics. Rivera and Lyons are trying to correct years of lack of institutional support.
socaltownie
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Alkiadt said:

sycasey said:

TandemBear said:

The reason there are 18+ threads about dumping Wilcox is because of Cal's inability to get rid of this dead weight! Not only has Cal not fired him, they extended him with an absurdly onerous contract that may have doomed the program.

Quite true, but this goes back to the screwed-up administration (as described by Greg) that preceded the current Lyons/Rivera regime. It's fair to give them time to clean this up and to dig out of the hole Knowlton put them in.


That hole has been growing under multiple chancellors for the past 6 decades that ignored and even disdained athletics. Rivera and Lyons are trying to correct years of lack of institutional support.

I get that this is the narrative. And I try to give people the benefit of the doubt. But what evidence is there of this? I get that the whales are telling us it is happening. I get the drama over give ron the keys suggests that they get it but what concrete evidence is there? Again, concrete signs of change would be to end the co-DC thing Monday.
Take care of your Chicken
sycasey
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socaltownie said:

Alkiadt said:

sycasey said:

TandemBear said:

The reason there are 18+ threads about dumping Wilcox is because of Cal's inability to get rid of this dead weight! Not only has Cal not fired him, they extended him with an absurdly onerous contract that may have doomed the program.

Quite true, but this goes back to the screwed-up administration (as described by Greg) that preceded the current Lyons/Rivera regime. It's fair to give them time to clean this up and to dig out of the hole Knowlton put them in.


That hole has been growing under multiple chancellors for the past 6 decades that ignored and even disdained athletics. Rivera and Lyons are trying to correct years of lack of institutional support.

I get that this is the narrative. And I try to give people the benefit of the doubt. But what evidence is there of this? I get that the whales are telling us it is happening. I get the drama over give ron the keys suggests that they get it but what concrete evidence is there? Again, concrete signs of change would be to end the co-DC thing Monday.

Well, I would say that Knowlton (and to a lesser degree the old athletic marketing head Everett) being shown the door is indeed concrete evidence that things are changing. One could argue that we should have seen more, but personally I did not expect a new head coach before the season was done, at the earliest. Wilcox starting with a superficially decent record also probably made that a lot less likely.
socaltownie
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sycasey said:

socaltownie said:

Alkiadt said:

sycasey said:

TandemBear said:

The reason there are 18+ threads about dumping Wilcox is because of Cal's inability to get rid of this dead weight! Not only has Cal not fired him, they extended him with an absurdly onerous contract that may have doomed the program.

Quite true, but this goes back to the screwed-up administration (as described by Greg) that preceded the current Lyons/Rivera regime. It's fair to give them time to clean this up and to dig out of the hole Knowlton put them in.


That hole has been growing under multiple chancellors for the past 6 decades that ignored and even disdained athletics. Rivera and Lyons are trying to correct years of lack of institutional support.

I get that this is the narrative. And I try to give people the benefit of the doubt. But what evidence is there of this? I get that the whales are telling us it is happening. I get the drama over give ron the keys suggests that they get it but what concrete evidence is there? Again, concrete signs of change would be to end the co-DC thing Monday.

Well, I would say that Knowlton (and to a lesser degree the old athletic marketing head Everett) being shown the door is indeed concrete evidence that things are changing. One could argue that we should have seen more, but personally I did not expect a new head coach before the season was done, at the earliest. Wilcox starting with a superficially decent record also probably made that a lot less likely.

Fair. Being in LowCal I don't have an on the ground appreciation for how good (or bad) our marketing efforts were.
Take care of your Chicken
Alkiadt
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socaltownie said:

sycasey said:

socaltownie said:

Alkiadt said:

sycasey said:

TandemBear said:

The reason there are 18+ threads about dumping Wilcox is because of Cal's inability to get rid of this dead weight! Not only has Cal not fired him, they extended him with an absurdly onerous contract that may have doomed the program.

Quite true, but this goes back to the screwed-up administration (as described by Greg) that preceded the current Lyons/Rivera regime. It's fair to give them time to clean this up and to dig out of the hole Knowlton put them in.


That hole has been growing under multiple chancellors for the past 6 decades that ignored and even disdained athletics. Rivera and Lyons are trying to correct years of lack of institutional support.

I get that this is the narrative. And I try to give people the benefit of the doubt. But what evidence is there of this? I get that the whales are telling us it is happening. I get the drama over give ron the keys suggests that they get it but what concrete evidence is there? Again, concrete signs of change would be to end the co-DC thing Monday.

Well, I would say that Knowlton (and to a lesser degree the old athletic marketing head Everett) being shown the door is indeed concrete evidence that things are changing. One could argue that we should have seen more, but personally I did not expect a new head coach before the season was done, at the earliest. Wilcox starting with a superficially decent record also probably made that a lot less likely.

Fair. Being in LowCal I don't have an on the ground appreciation for how good (or bad) our marketing efforts were.

They were nonexistent.
Bobodeluxe
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Alkiadt said:

socaltownie said:

sycasey said:

socaltownie said:

Alkiadt said:

sycasey said:

TandemBear said:

The reason there are 18+ threads about dumping Wilcox is because of Cal's inability to get rid of this dead weight! Not only has Cal not fired him, they extended him with an absurdly onerous contract that may have doomed the program.

Quite true, but this goes back to the screwed-up administration (as described by Greg) that preceded the current Lyons/Rivera regime. It's fair to give them time to clean this up and to dig out of the hole Knowlton put them in.


That hole has been growing under multiple chancellors for the past 6 decades that ignored and even disdained athletics. Rivera and Lyons are trying to correct years of lack of institutional support.

I get that this is the narrative. And I try to give people the benefit of the doubt. But what evidence is there of this? I get that the whales are telling us it is happening. I get the drama over give ron the keys suggests that they get it but what concrete evidence is there? Again, concrete signs of change would be to end the co-DC thing Monday.

Well, I would say that Knowlton (and to a lesser degree the old athletic marketing head Everett) being shown the door is indeed concrete evidence that things are changing. One could argue that we should have seen more, but personally I did not expect a new head coach before the season was done, at the earliest. Wilcox starting with a superficially decent record also probably made that a lot less likely.

Fair. Being in LowCal I don't have an on the ground appreciation for how good (or bad) our marketing efforts were.

They were nonexistent.

Keeping ticket prices high, and raising them higher, was marketing genius. There was a story in the local rags recently about how successful Hawaii has been in raising prices across the board to discourage the riff-raff. A more enjoyable experience for visitors as well as locals. JK was ahead of the marketing trend.

lol
Bobodeluxe
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BearGreg said:

This has to be a safe place for venting, sharing feelings, thoughts and ideas. Right now, we're teetering on losing against that requirement. Incessant posting is not okay. Attacking others is not okay. And we're getting too close to using this board in ways that are so far from the intent of BearInsider. Specifically, creating straw man arguments and if then statements designed to inflame or defame people.

Enough! We're going to start seriously moderating this forum, something we've never had to do since I've owned it. I know that this community can behave better and expect it to do so.

On the topics de jour:

Does Cal take football seriously? What recent signs might tell us whether they do or not? The Regents hired Rich Lyons as the Chancellor and part of his vetting process was based on his knowledge and ideas about Athletics. Rich Lyons hired Ron Rivera. Jim Knowlton was let go. Ron Rivera was given full control of all things related to Football.

Donations are way, way up, new large donors have come forward. The amount of money being spent on Football relative to Cal's peers is significantly improved.

Judge for yourself whether the above means anything. I know very clearly the conclusions that I draw.

Meanwhile, the football team is 5-3 against a very weak schedule. The team has a lot of hallmarks of not being well coached - penalties, tackling, dropped passes, slow or inadequate defensive adjustments as well some markers that there's some good things happening - recruited a generational talent at QB, a top tier pass defense despite the loss of the starting Safety and the teams best edge player, improved Special teams, etc.

Cal has a coach in his ninth season. The record is what it is. Ron Rivera is super aware of that record and also painfully aware of how screwed up the administration was around football. When he talks about the latter, it's not an excuse, it's a reality. It's only an excuse if he believes that Wilcox record is what it is entirely because of that lack of support. Ron and Chancellor Lyons are very bright, rational and well informed people that have big ambitions for this program and have set a high bar for it which they've been explicit about.

Ron is on the record saying he wants to evaluate Wilcox, now that he has administrative support, based on his full season of work. Some clearly do not agree with that. The one thing you get with a midseason firing is temporary relief from the anxiety, anger and frustration you may be feeling. While I can understand that motivation, that doesn't mean it's the right answer.

BUT. HERE"S THE REALITY - The ONLY THING that really matters is how capable is the coaching staff and how talented is the roster of the Cal Football Team in 2026. That's it. The rest is just noise. Sure, you can have some PR and marketing wins or losses between now and knowing whether the above is true, but it's ephemeral and in the end insignificant.

Take a deep breath and understand that a.) Wow, I really care and feel deeply about this otherwise I wouldn't be posting and reading messages that convey this much emotion; b.) I have to decide for myself how I feel about watching and attending games the rest of this season and hopefully I can respect others choices on this matter without judgment. c.) As a stakeholder - donor, season ticket holder, avid fan - I won't know whether I believe in this program until it's clear who the coach will be and how talented the roster will be for 2026 and even then I won't really know until the 2026 season has played out and perhaps even beyond that. d.). I can be aware that other people, significant donors and school leadership are going to be the real influencers of how things play out. Am I communicating to those people in a way that is likely to persuade them of something or am I ranting because I need a place to vent and can I distinguish between those two things?

Also, if you consider this statement a "rant", you really need 'ranting lessons'. Many here would gladly oblige.
DaveT
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Agree 100%, nobody should take personal shots at other posters. As for the overall tenor of the board, we've got to grow up, that's the overriding theme. We're immature. We have glimpses where we can make meaningful posts, but it's too much of a roller-coaster. Can't post that way and win.
going4roses
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Self imposed time out incoming
How (are) you gonna win when you ain’t right within…
Strykur
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BearGreg said:

BUT. HERE"S THE REALITY - The ONLY THING that really matters is how capable is the coaching staff and how talented is the roster of the Cal Football Team in 2026. That's it. The rest is just noise.

I was already doing this but you essentially said to forget about the rest of this year and check out until next season, ok then
Strykur
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DaveT said:

Agree 100%, nobody should take personal shots at other posters. As for the overall tenor of the board, we've got to grow up, that's the overriding theme. We're immature.

I agree, only a cognitive issue would explain why someone would still be in support of the current state of affairs
PAC-10-BEAR
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In the Off Topic forum, we have over a hundred threads related to Donald Trump (mostly negative TDS content) but also an official Trump administration thread that contains the most posts and views.

To reduce board spamming and clutter on Growls, we only need one Justin Wilcox thread in the same way we only need one game thread for each game. Veteran Bearinsiders should recognize this.
TonyTiger
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You right Greg, and i wont be posting anything else negative about Wilcox. But that's because I've said everything negative under the sun and its all true; Yet since everything negative under the sun has been said by me about him, anything else would indeed be overkill . There is literally nothing under the sun that can be said about him that is negative. I ran out of things to say but didn't realize it. Thanks for reminding me.

I'm all angered out.
What a once beautiful football program -all gone - sad.

Besides, i don't have 15 million and no one on this board seems to either especially to dish out to someone who hasn't earned it. I guess we should shut up and face defeat.

Its Over- We have lost. Goodbye.
SouthKBear
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The main point Greg was speaking on was having a mature forum and respect amongst posters. In years past and even presently, someone gives an opinion and everyone begins to attack by calling them a troll or negative comments. I know for a fact because I've seen it. Some people post and it blows my mind that the fan base that went to a great school like Berkeley, can have such low intellectual responses to someone's opinion. I believe, such as Greg, that we need to mind our tongue someone. Free speech of course, but respect others speech as well and realize we all have opinions. Let them be. Respond if you like the topic or having something to contribute to and if not, don't read or read and not respond.

This is the best forum and most visually laid out platform than any other team. I consider that a win, even if it's not on the field where we'd like it.

Wilcox sucks, know this. We all want him gone. If there's another thread, it's only because we want to turn to a new chapter with a different theme. Not the same chapter that goes off tangents. When I start a thread, it's to stir it back to a similar topic with a fresh perspective and outlook. But I do appreciate Greg speaking out. There is a rule of law and we do need to be check. Checks and balances work, most of the time. Hopefully. Go Bears!
HKBear97!
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I've only been a Cal fan for 30+ years, which is less than many on this board. However, from my experience, this post is simply the latest way to say "but this time is different". Time will tell, but I think I've seen this movie before.
philly1121
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sycasey said:

TandemBear said:

The reason there are 18+ threads about dumping Wilcox is because of Cal's inability to get rid of this dead weight! Not only has Cal not fired him, they extended him with an absurdly onerous contract that may have doomed the program.

Quite true, but this goes back to the screwed-up administration (as described by Greg) that preceded the current Lyons/Rivera regime. It's fair to give them time to clean this up and to dig out of the hole Knowlton put them in.

I think the sunshine pumpers on this board would say, the problem with that is - the clock is ticking. Realignment is in 29/30.

I don't agree that we can magically improve to the extent that we would be invited to the B1G. I suspect most in Administration would think the same. I think its a matter of evaluating what things look like from the standpoint of a reduced ACC. And how to remain competitive from a budgetary and performance standpoint. But I think there are a great many college football programs that are doing this.

A culture shift - what Rivera was brought in to expedite - will take way too long for the time that is in front of us. I think the realization of that is what is driving alot of negativity on this board - some justified, some not. Its the price of middling around for too long.
Strykur
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HKBear97! said:

I've only been a Cal fan for 30+ years, which is less than many on this board. However, from my experience, this post is simply the latest way to say "but this time is different". Time will tell, but I think I've seen this movie before.

Same **** different day, a redux of the nonsense we saw after getting blasted in San Diego last month
sycasey
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philly1121 said:

sycasey said:

TandemBear said:

The reason there are 18+ threads about dumping Wilcox is because of Cal's inability to get rid of this dead weight! Not only has Cal not fired him, they extended him with an absurdly onerous contract that may have doomed the program.

Quite true, but this goes back to the screwed-up administration (as described by Greg) that preceded the current Lyons/Rivera regime. It's fair to give them time to clean this up and to dig out of the hole Knowlton put them in.

I think the sunshine pumpers on this board would say, the problem with that is - the clock is ticking. Realignment is in 29/30.

I don't agree that we can magically improve to the extent that we would be invited to the B1G. I suspect most in Administration would think the same. I think its a matter of evaluating what things look like from the standpoint of a reduced ACC. And how to remain competitive from a budgetary and performance standpoint. But I think there are a great many college football programs that are doing this.

A culture shift - what Rivera was brought in to expedite - will take way too long for the time that is in front of us. I think the realization of that is what is driving alot of negativity on this board - some justified, some not. Its the price of middling around for too long.

Unless something truly unexpected happens (like the B1G expanding way more than necessary), we are probably going to still be in the ACC after the next invites go out. These last two seasons with the easy schedule were the window to make a big splash and grow the program and that is now gone. Wilcox squandered it. But we should still do what we can to be as competitive as possible, because IMO 2030 will not be the last realignment.
pingpong2
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BearGreg said:

Ron is on the record saying he wants to evaluate Wilcox, now that he has administrative support, based on his full season of work. Some clearly do not agree with that. The one thing you get with a midseason firing is temporary relief from the anxiety, anger and frustration you may be feeling. While I can understand that motivation, that doesn't mean it's the right answer.

I'd love to understand from Ron how the lack of administrative support can lead to the team crapping the bed against winless opponents...multiple times. I'd also like to understand how lack of administrative support can lead to consistently poor clock management.

The reason fans want Wilcox out is because these type of flaws isn't something easily fixed, so giving him a chance with more "administrative support" just seems like we're wasting time.
Alkiadt
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pingpong2 said:

BearGreg said:

Ron is on the record saying he wants to evaluate Wilcox, now that he has administrative support, based on his full season of work. Some clearly do not agree with that. The one thing you get with a midseason firing is temporary relief from the anxiety, anger and frustration you may be feeling. While I can understand that motivation, that doesn't mean it's the right answer.

I'd love to understand from Ron how the lack of administrative support can lead to the team crapping the bed against winless opponents...multiple times. I'd also like to understand how lack of administrative support can lead to consistently poor clock management.

The reason fans want Wilcox out is because these type of flaws isn't something easily fixed, so giving him a chance with more "administrative support" just seems like we're wasting time.


If you don't think $$$ and the availability and timing of it to pay off the contract is part of the consideration, you didn't read SB's post. Rivera is already on record stating 8 wins is a goal. And he's said he'll wait for the full year to assess the situation. I think if there's two consecutive losses in the near future you might see that change. But because you are upset (like a lot of us are) with the 5-3 record, it's fruitless to expect anything to happen this week… JMO.
calumnus
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philly1121 said:

sycasey said:

TandemBear said:

The reason there are 18+ threads about dumping Wilcox is because of Cal's inability to get rid of this dead weight! Not only has Cal not fired him, they extended him with an absurdly onerous contract that may have doomed the program.

Quite true, but this goes back to the screwed-up administration (as described by Greg) that preceded the current Lyons/Rivera regime. It's fair to give them time to clean this up and to dig out of the hole Knowlton put them in.

I think the sunshine pumpers on this board would say, the problem with that is - the clock is ticking. Realignment is in 29/30.

I don't agree that we can magically improve to the extent that we would be invited to the B1G. I suspect most in Administration would think the same. I think its a matter of evaluating what things look like from the standpoint of a reduced ACC. And how to remain competitive from a budgetary and performance standpoint. But I think there are a great many college football programs that are doing this.

A culture shift - what Rivera was brought in to expedite - will take way too long for the time that is in front of us. I think the realization of that is what is driving alot of negativity on this board - some justified, some not. Its the price of middling around for too long.


In 2001 Holmoe went 0-10 until the makeup game against 2-8 Rutgers got our only win. Worse we were on NCAA sanctions.

People, especially the insiders and big donors, had been defending Holmoe on this board, saying our stadium and training facilities were terrible , our administration did not support football, the Bay Area is an NFL market….

Only three years later we were 1 play or a missed FG away from an 11-0 season and a berth in the National Championship Game.

The difference was only having a good coach. It helped that Gladstone was the temporary AD and could recognize good coaching, but that was it.

Since then we have spent more on our stadium and facilities than any other school (not arguing they are the best, but far better than under Tedford). We have a Cal alum and fan as our chancellor for the first time in our history. We have put a former Cal All American player and Super Bowl head coach in charge of the program. The Raiders (and A's) are gone. The East Bay market is ours for the taking. We are one of two West Coast teams ESPN owns exclusive rights to and wants to actively promote us. We have one of the easiest schedules on the country, one of the easiest in our history. We are still in the state that produces the most NFL talent and now regularly play in Texas, Florida, Georgia, North Carolina, Pennsylvania…. We are the nearest D1 school to Hawaii with the most, and cheapest air flights…. We have the wealthiest alumni collectively of any D1 program. We and our rival offer the top academics in D1 football. Our campus and stadium are beautiful. The Bay Area weather and culture are unique and a huge draw…

As in 2001, all it takes is firing the losing coach and hiring a good coach. If anything, everything else is FAR better now.
Alkiadt
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calumnus said:

philly1121 said:

sycasey said:

TandemBear said:

The reason there are 18+ threads about dumping Wilcox is because of Cal's inability to get rid of this dead weight! Not only has Cal not fired him, they extended him with an absurdly onerous contract that may have doomed the program.

Quite true, but this goes back to the screwed-up administration (as described by Greg) that preceded the current Lyons/Rivera regime. It's fair to give them time to clean this up and to dig out of the hole Knowlton put them in.

I think the sunshine pumpers on this board would say, the problem with that is - the clock is ticking. Realignment is in 29/30.

I don't agree that we can magically improve to the extent that we would be invited to the B1G. I suspect most in Administration would think the same. I think its a matter of evaluating what things look like from the standpoint of a reduced ACC. And how to remain competitive from a budgetary and performance standpoint. But I think there are a great many college football programs that are doing this.

A culture shift - what Rivera was brought in to expedite - will take way too long for the time that is in front of us. I think the realization of that is what is driving alot of negativity on this board - some justified, some not. Its the price of middling around for too long.


In 2001 Holmoe went 0-10 until the makeup game against 2-8 Rutgers got our only win. Worse we were on NCAA sanctions.

People, especially the insiders and big donors, had been defending Holmoe on this board, saying our stadium and training facilities were terrible , our administration did not support football, the Bay Area is an NFL market….

Only three years later we were 1 play or a missed FG away from an 11-0 season and a berth in the National Championship Game.

The difference was only having a good coach. It helped that Gladstone was the temporary AD and could recognize good coaching, but that was it.

Since then we have spent more on our stadium and facilities than any other school (not arguing they are the best, but far better than under Tedford). We have a Cal alum and fan as our chancellor for the first time in our history. We have put a former Cal All American player and Super Bowl head coach in charge of the program. The Raiders (and A's) are gone. The East Bay market is ours for the taking. We are one of two West Coast teams ESPN owns exclusive rights to and wants to actively promote us. We have one of the easiest schedules on the country, one of the easiest in our history. We are still in the state that produces the most NFL talent and now regularly play in Texas, Florida, Georgia, North Carolina, Pennsylvania…. We are the nearest D1 school to Hawaii with the most, and cheapest air flights…. We have the wealthiest alumni collectively of any D1 program. We and our rival offer the top academics in D1 football. Our campus and stadium are beautiful. The Bay Area weather and culture are unique and a huge draw…

As in 2001, all it takes is firing the losing coach and hiring a good coach. If anything, everything else is FAR better now.


Great perspective.
DaveT
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I'm not upset at the 5-3 record, I'm mystified we can have that record after having played so poorly. RR doesn't need a full season to evaluate Wilcox unless he's been asleep for the past nine years. Maybe there's some 3D chess going on behind the scenes, but to the average fan like me, it just looks like more Cal foot-dragging and indecision. I understand Wilcox won't be canned until after the season (if at all), I just find it bizarre under the circumstances.
philly1121
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calumnus said:

philly1121 said:

sycasey said:

TandemBear said:

The reason there are 18+ threads about dumping Wilcox is because of Cal's inability to get rid of this dead weight! Not only has Cal not fired him, they extended him with an absurdly onerous contract that may have doomed the program.

Quite true, but this goes back to the screwed-up administration (as described by Greg) that preceded the current Lyons/Rivera regime. It's fair to give them time to clean this up and to dig out of the hole Knowlton put them in.

I think the sunshine pumpers on this board would say, the problem with that is - the clock is ticking. Realignment is in 29/30.

I don't agree that we can magically improve to the extent that we would be invited to the B1G. I suspect most in Administration would think the same. I think its a matter of evaluating what things look like from the standpoint of a reduced ACC. And how to remain competitive from a budgetary and performance standpoint. But I think there are a great many college football programs that are doing this.

A culture shift - what Rivera was brought in to expedite - will take way too long for the time that is in front of us. I think the realization of that is what is driving alot of negativity on this board - some justified, some not. Its the price of middling around for too long.


In 2001 Holmoe went 0-10 until the makeup game against 2-8 Rutgers got our only win. Worse we were on NCAA sanctions.

People, especially the insiders and big donors, had been defending Holmoe on this board, saying our stadium and training facilities were terrible , our administration did not support football, the Bay Area is an NFL market….

Only three years later we were 1 play or a missed FG away from an 11-0 season and a berth in the National Championship Game.

The difference was only having a good coach. It helped that Gladstone was the temporary AD and could recognize good coaching, but that was it.

Since then we have spent more on our stadium and facilities than any other school (not arguing they are the best, but far better than under Tedford). We have a Cal alum and fan as our chancellor for the first time in our history. We have put a former Cal All American player and Super Bowl head coach in charge of the program. The Raiders (and A's) are gone. The East Bay market is ours for the taking. We are one of two West Coast teams ESPN owns exclusive rights to and wants to actively promote us. We have one of the easiest schedules on the country, one of the easiest in our history. We are still in the state that produces the most NFL talent and now regularly play in Texas, Florida, Georgia, North Carolina, Pennsylvania…. We are the nearest D1 school to Hawaii with the most, and cheapest air flights…. We have the wealthiest alumni collectively of any D1 program. We and our rival offer the top academics in D1 football. Our campus and stadium are beautiful. The Bay Area weather and culture are unique and a huge draw…

As in 2001, all it takes is firing the losing coach and hiring a good coach. If anything, everything else is FAR better now.


Three years later we finished 10-2. Three years. So, by that metric - and only that metric - we get good by the end of 2028. Far too late for any reasonable convo about "promotion". But let's face it - that was 20+ years ago. The college football landscape hasn't changed. Its completely transformed. It has been overturned.

All of what you describe means - nothing. We are up to our ears in stadium debt. We have a Cal Alum as chancellor. Ok. So he likes sports. The only metric that matters on this board at the moment is his decisionmaking around Wilcox. Rivera seems to be placing partial blame on the fans. Not a good look. It didn't matter about the Bay Area being "ours" when we were winning and sharing media landscape with the Raiders. But they have sucked for so long - the Bay Area has been ours! No one in college football gives a rip about academics. Seriously?

You paint a nice picture. But its not a reflection of reality.
TandemBear
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75bear said:

TandemBear said:

The reason there are 18+ threads about dumping Wilcox is because of Cal's inability to get rid of this dead weight! Not only has Cal not fired him, they extended him with an absurdly onerous contract that may have doomed the program.

Sorry if the fanbase is frustrated. I see it as a good thing - it shows anyone listening just how fed up everyone is. Anyone in admin better be following BI to see the true sentiments of Cal's most ardent followers. Censoring these sentiments would be an outrage, especially at the origin of the Free Speech Movement.

Not reading all these "Fire Wilcox!" threads would be dereliction of duty and cause for termination in my book!

Nobody is saying there shouldn't be a Fire Wilcox thread - free speech is obviously a necessity.

Your first paragraph illustrates the issue - I've seen you post these exact same sentiments over and over again. We all get it - we know how you feel.

Yeah, but did I tell you about how Cal should fire Wilcox?!!!!
TandemBear
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calumnus said:

In 2001 Holmoe went 0-10 until the makeup game against 2-8 Rutgers got our only win. Worse we were on NCAA sanctions.

Only Cal could screw up a perfect record by beating Rutgers in a make-up game at the end of the season.

I have fond memories of painting my sister's new house as I listened to that season's final game on the radio. Cal had an opportunity to compete a perfect record that year. Nope. Sullied the season's perfection with one stupid win.

TypiCal.
BearlyCareAnymore
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75bear said:

TandemBear said:

The reason there are 18+ threads about dumping Wilcox is because of Cal's inability to get rid of this dead weight! Not only has Cal not fired him, they extended him with an absurdly onerous contract that may have doomed the program.

Sorry if the fanbase is frustrated. I see it as a good thing - it shows anyone listening just how fed up everyone is. Anyone in admin better be following BI to see the true sentiments of Cal's most ardent followers. Censoring these sentiments would be an outrage, especially at the origin of the Free Speech Movement.

Not reading all these "Fire Wilcox!" threads would be dereliction of duty and cause for termination in my book!
Nobody is saying there shouldn't be a Fire Wilcox thread - free speech is obviously a necessity.

Your first paragraph illustrates the issue - I've seen you post these exact same sentiments over and over again. We all get it - we know how you feel.



People who want change: "Cal - please change"

Cal never changes

People who want change: "Cal - please change"


Response: "Geez. You already said that! Shut up already!"


I know that Cal has a long standing history of free speech and protest. They speak out and protest once and then go home. Wouldn't want to be repetitive. Ask nicely for change and if it happens, great! If not, oh well. You tried
StarsDoMatter
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I'm honestly shocked this was even posted. I want to be clear this isn't about attacking anyone personally. But there is such a thing as speaking up, especially at a school like Cal where that tradition has been part of who we are for generations.

First, speaking up shows that we care. When no one shows up and no one speaks out, that's when BI is dead. That's when apathy takes over, and that's when we truly lose.

Second, we were this close to being stuck in the Pac 12/Mountain West crap conference. We begged to get a raw deal by the ACC just to have a home. Things are getting real for us, and time is running out. If we don't act soon, it could all be over. Leadership saying they care is nice, but talk is cheap. We need real action, and we need it fast.

Third, I know we're not LSU, but they have a standard. A high standard. What is our standard? Do we even have one? Words don't mean much unless they are backed up by actions.
We need to be louder than ever. We need to show that we care and that we expect better. Otherwise, we might as well just say goodbye to our football program. What's a shame.
sonofabear51
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"We need to be louder than ever."

Correct. And we need to be louder than ever every ******* day.

Getting rid of Knowlton, Everett, and the other changes are great. But more needs to happen rapid fire.

Every day.
calumnus
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philly1121 said:

calumnus said:

philly1121 said:

sycasey said:

TandemBear said:

The reason there are 18+ threads about dumping Wilcox is because of Cal's inability to get rid of this dead weight! Not only has Cal not fired him, they extended him with an absurdly onerous contract that may have doomed the program.

Quite true, but this goes back to the screwed-up administration (as described by Greg) that preceded the current Lyons/Rivera regime. It's fair to give them time to clean this up and to dig out of the hole Knowlton put them in.

I think the sunshine pumpers on this board would say, the problem with that is - the clock is ticking. Realignment is in 29/30.

I don't agree that we can magically improve to the extent that we would be invited to the B1G. I suspect most in Administration would think the same. I think its a matter of evaluating what things look like from the standpoint of a reduced ACC. And how to remain competitive from a budgetary and performance standpoint. But I think there are a great many college football programs that are doing this.

A culture shift - what Rivera was brought in to expedite - will take way too long for the time that is in front of us. I think the realization of that is what is driving alot of negativity on this board - some justified, some not. Its the price of middling around for too long.


In 2001 Holmoe went 0-10 until the makeup game against 2-8 Rutgers got our only win. Worse we were on NCAA sanctions.

People, especially the insiders and big donors, had been defending Holmoe on this board, saying our stadium and training facilities were terrible , our administration did not support football, the Bay Area is an NFL market….

Only three years later we were 1 play or a missed FG away from an 11-0 season and a berth in the National Championship Game.

The difference was only having a good coach. It helped that Gladstone was the temporary AD and could recognize good coaching, but that was it.

Since then we have spent more on our stadium and facilities than any other school (not arguing they are the best, but far better than under Tedford). We have a Cal alum and fan as our chancellor for the first time in our history. We have put a former Cal All American player and Super Bowl head coach in charge of the program. The Raiders (and A's) are gone. The East Bay market is ours for the taking. We are one of two West Coast teams ESPN owns exclusive rights to and wants to actively promote us. We have one of the easiest schedules on the country, one of the easiest in our history. We are still in the state that produces the most NFL talent and now regularly play in Texas, Florida, Georgia, North Carolina, Pennsylvania…. We are the nearest D1 school to Hawaii with the most, and cheapest air flights…. We have the wealthiest alumni collectively of any D1 program. We and our rival offer the top academics in D1 football. Our campus and stadium are beautiful. The Bay Area weather and culture are unique and a huge draw…

As in 2001, all it takes is firing the losing coach and hiring a good coach. If anything, everything else is FAR better now.


Three years later we finished 10-2. Three years. So, by that metric - and only that metric - we get good by the end of 2028. Far too late for any reasonable convo about "promotion". But let's face it - that was 20+ years ago. The college football landscape hasn't changed. Its completely transformed. It has been overturned.

All of what you describe means - nothing. We are up to our ears in stadium debt. We have a Cal Alum as chancellor. Ok. So he likes sports. The only metric that matters on this board at the moment is his decisionmaking around Wilcox. Rivera seems to be placing partial blame on the fans. Not a good look. It didn't matter about the Bay Area being "ours" when we were winning and sharing media landscape with the Raiders. But they have sucked for so long - the Bay Area has been ours! No one in college football gives a rip about academics. Seriously?

You paint a nice picture. But it's not a reflection of reality.

Well, you could argue 1-10 with NCAA sanctions is a lower starting point than where we are now.

Our Strength of Schedule in 2002, 2003 and 2004 was #26, #20 and #15. This year it is #98. Tedford had a much tougher task than the next coach will have. The ACC is a cakewalk by comparison. This team is not nearly as good as our 2004 team, but with just coaching a little more competent than Wilcox could have won 10 last year and this year.

And with the Portal change can happen A LOT faster with a good coach. Look at Indiana. That is the reality.
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