Per usual suspects

theres the advantage of firing your coach before season end, because u can already move forward with your next one. (for those of us who insists on "what do we have to gain by acting sooner"). i am sure franklin will do his best to help vtech land a great portal class


also. i read that they negotiated a buyout from $49M to $9M. but no offset so anything franklin make will be additive
this is a win win win for all 3 parties. franklin is happy he got a raise. pennstate saved $40M. vtech landed their next coach before the season is even over.


we need busienss people running our football ops. sometimes the dollars and cents is not immediately apparent but in the long run it could work out if you have a vision

TedfordTheGreat said:

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we need busienss people running our football ops. sometimes the dollars and cents is not immediately apparent but in the long run it could work out if you have a vision

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Exactly! One thing we don't have at Cal in the AD is anyone with business experience or a vision.

It's a good spot for him. There aren't any big games in the ACC to blow.

This is great for all parties. All Franklin needs to do is consistently win 8-10 games and be a contender for ACC champ every year. I'm jealous of the amount of hope and optimism VT fans feel about this move

Tosh Lupoi vs James Franklin is going to be awesome next season.

Was UCLA interested in the coach they defeated without a head coach?

How did PSU negotiate the buyout to such a small number ($9 million)? I would have thought PSU lost all leverage once they fired Franklin.

75bear said:

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How did PSU negotiate the buyout to such a small number ($9 million)? I would have thought PSU lost all leverage once they fired Franklin.

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Va Tech was willing to give him a raise over what he would have gotten straight from the buyout

Joegeo said:

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75bear said:

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How did PSU negotiate the buyout to such a small number ($9 million)? I would have thought PSU lost all leverage once they fired Franklin.

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Va Tech was willing to give him a raise over what he would have gotten straight from the buyout

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also due to contract offset language, Franklin was not going to earn another dime more. Everything Vtech was paying goes back to Penn State unless their entire amount is mitigated. Now this way Franklin gets an immediate check for $9M and then get his paycheck from Vtech. Penn State saves a significant amount over the next 5+ years. Huge win win

TedfordTheGreat said:

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Joegeo said:

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75bear said:

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How did PSU negotiate the buyout to such a small number ($9 million)? I would have thought PSU lost all leverage once they fired Franklin.

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Va Tech was willing to give him a raise over what he would have gotten straight from the buyout

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also due to contract offset language, Franklin was not going to earn another dime more. Everything Vtech was paying goes back to Penn State unless their entire amount is mitigated. Now this way Franklin gets an immediate check for $9M and then get his paycheck from Vtech. Penn State saves a significant amount over the next 5+ years. Huge win win

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There is no contract any more, but there is a win win..

For the lawyers that would say yes but (for example what happens if Franklin if fired during the six year period),
per Sports Illustrated, Penn State and Franklin negotiated a buyout of about $9 million contingent on Franklin signing with VA State and tore up his existing contract. Penn State is off the hook for the remainder of the buyout and Franklin in essence received far more than the partial salary he would have received this year for the period after he was "terminated". He also gets that payment now before he becomes a resident of higher income tax rate Virginia (Pennsylvania's max income tax is about half that of Virginia).

PA income tax rate is 3.07%
VA income tax rate is 5.75%
CA income tax rate is 13.3%

Pretty brutal difference that puts Cal at a disadvantage, not to mention the cost of living.

There is a reason why we don't land top coaching talent.

CALiforniALUM said:

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PA income tax rate is 3.07%
VA income tax rate is 5.75%
CA income tax rate is 13.3%

Pretty brutal difference that puts Cal at a disadvantage, not to mention the cost of living.

There is a reason why we don't land top coaching talent.

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Not to mention, FL, TN, WA, and TX income tax rate is 0.0%

was somewhat nervous he would go to stanfurd so am pretty okay with this.

PAC-10-BEAR said:

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CALiforniALUM said:

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PA income tax rate is 3.07%
VA income tax rate is 5.75%
CA income tax rate is 13.3%

Pretty brutal difference that puts Cal at a disadvantage, not to mention the cost of living.

There is a reason why we don't land top coaching talent.

---

Not to mention, FL, TN, WA, and TX income tax rate is 0.0%

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This argument is invalid. The taxes and increased cost of living are the premiums you pay to live in a premium part of the country. They balance out perfectly.

bearsandgiants said:

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PAC-10-BEAR said:

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CALiforniALUM said:

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PA income tax rate is 3.07%
VA income tax rate is 5.75%
CA income tax rate is 13.3%

Pretty brutal difference that puts Cal at a disadvantage, not to mention the cost of living.

There is a reason why we don't land top coaching talent.

---

Not to mention, FL, TN, WA, and TX income tax rate is 0.0%

---

This argument is invalid. The taxes and increased cost of living are the premiums you pay to live in a premium part of the country. They balance out perfectly.

---

I think the cost of living in California has a much greater impact on the assistant pool than the HC. A HC will make a very good salary with a lot of it guaranteed. The assistants will make much less. And housing is much higher here than almost anywhere else.

But the weather, dining, wine country, entertainment options and so much else are great here.

bearsandgiants said:

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PAC-10-BEAR said:

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CALiforniALUM said:

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PA income tax rate is 3.07%
VA income tax rate is 5.75%
CA income tax rate is 13.3%

Pretty brutal difference that puts Cal at a disadvantage, not to mention the cost of living.

There is a reason why we don't land top coaching talent.

---

Not to mention, FL, TN, WA, and TX income tax rate is 0.0%

---

This argument is invalid. The taxes and increased cost of living are the premiums you pay to live in a premium part of the country. They balance out perfectly.

---

No, taxes are not offset by the perceived desirability of a geographic area, at least not for most college football coaches.

DoubtfulBear said:

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This is great for all parties. All Franklin needs to do is consistently win 8-10 games and be a contender for ACC champ every year. I'm jealous of the amount of hope and optimism VT fans feel about this move

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Be interesting to see if he can do it. He's been living off the fat of the land for years. Now, he'll have to raise his own crops.

Rushinbear said:

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DoubtfulBear said:

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This is great for all parties. All Franklin needs to do is consistently win 8-10 games and be a contender for ACC champ every year. I'm jealous of the amount of hope and optimism VT fans feel about this move

---

Be interesting to see if he can do it. He's been living off the fat of the land for years. Now, he'll have to raise his own crops.

---

He used to be at JMU and Vanderbilt and has plenty of ties to the area. Also of all perceived shortcomings of Franklin, recruiting is certainly not one of them. And with the $229M investment by VT in athletics as well as all the PSU kids he recruited looking to follow him, I would say he's set at least for the next 4 years

DoubtfulBear said:

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Rushinbear said:

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DoubtfulBear said:

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This is great for all parties. All Franklin needs to do is consistently win 8-10 games and be a contender for ACC champ every year. I'm jealous of the amount of hope and optimism VT fans feel about this move

---

Be interesting to see if he can do it. He's been living off the fat of the land for years. Now, he'll have to raise his own crops.

---

He used to be at JMU and Vanderbilt and has plenty of ties to the area. Also of all perceived shortcomings of Franklin, recruiting is certainly not one of them. And with the $229M investment by VT in athletics as well as all the PSU kids he recruited looking to follow him, I would say he's set at least for the next 4 years

---

His advancing Vandy's program is the most impressive. That got him the PSU job and the slow slide began, once his inheritance moved on.

Rushinbear said:

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DoubtfulBear said:

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Rushinbear said:

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DoubtfulBear said:

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This is great for all parties. All Franklin needs to do is consistently win 8-10 games and be a contender for ACC champ every year. I'm jealous of the amount of hope and optimism VT fans feel about this move

---

Be interesting to see if he can do it. He's been living off the fat of the land for years. Now, he'll have to raise his own crops.

---

He used to be at JMU and Vanderbilt and has plenty of ties to the area. Also of all perceived shortcomings of Franklin, recruiting is certainly not one of them. And with the $229M investment by VT in athletics as well as all the PSU kids he recruited looking to follow him, I would say he's set at least for the next 4 years

---

His advancing Vandy's program is the most impressive. That got him the PSU job and the slow slide began, once his inheritance moved on.

---

If you define losing the CFP semi-final game by 3 points a slow slide, how would you quantify 0.471 in 9 seasons?

oski003 said:

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bearsandgiants said:

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PAC-10-BEAR said:

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CALiforniALUM said:

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PA income tax rate is 3.07%
VA income tax rate is 5.75%
CA income tax rate is 13.3%

Pretty brutal difference that puts Cal at a disadvantage, not to mention the cost of living.

There is a reason why we don't land top coaching talent.

---

Not to mention, FL, TN, WA, and TX income tax rate is 0.0%

---

This argument is invalid. The taxes and increased cost of living are the premiums you pay to live in a premium part of the country. They balance out perfectly.

---

No, taxes are not offset by the perceived desirability of a geographic area, at least not for most college football coaches.

---

Which is why those schools need to focus on attracting the coaches that greatly appreciate the desirability of the geographic area and can sell that appreciation to recruits. They especially need to avoid coaches that see the geographical location as a negative.

For example, Hawaii can be a great positive for someone from Hawaii or just someone who appreciates it despite its high costs and taxes. Someone who is from Hawaii or just loves Hawaii can sell recruits on going to Hawaii.

For many people, having a high 7 figure income means they can afford to buy more expensive cars or afford to live in a more expensive and desirable area. However, that desireabity is subjective: some people prefer a huge air conditioned house in Dallas with no income tax but huge property taxes, others prefer a smaller open air home with an ocean view and cooling breezes.

DoubtfulBear said:

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Rushinbear said:

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DoubtfulBear said:

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Rushinbear said:

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DoubtfulBear said:

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This is great for all parties. All Franklin needs to do is consistently win 8-10 games and be a contender for ACC champ every year. I'm jealous of the amount of hope and optimism VT fans feel about this move

---

Be interesting to see if he can do it. He's been living off the fat of the land for years. Now, he'll have to raise his own crops.

---

He used to be at JMU and Vanderbilt and has plenty of ties to the area. Also of all perceived shortcomings of Franklin, recruiting is certainly not one of them. And with the $229M investment by VT in athletics as well as all the PSU kids he recruited looking to follow him, I would say he's set at least for the next 4 years

---

His advancing Vandy's program is the most impressive. That got him the PSU job and the slow slide began, once his inheritance moved on.

---

If you define losing the CFP semi-final game by 3 points a slow slide, how would you quantify 0.471 in 9 seasons?

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I thought we4 were talking about Franklin. "What abouts" are just a distraction from the subject at hand.

So, with what Franklin has to work with, that one CFP semi doesn't shout excellence to me. Come to think of it, his teams remind me of Cal under JW, just with better raw material. Conservative O and tough D. The Nits are sitting right in the middle of a rrrrrrrich hs football environment. Cal? Not so much. Factor in academic expectations (sorry, PSU, you don't measure up - good, but) and they do bare a slight resemblance.

The thing that hurt PSU lately is the end of the Paterno era. That's a stain that has persevered in the minds of recruits and their families ever since, in my opinion, having no data to back it up.

calumnus said:

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oski003 said:

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bearsandgiants said:

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PAC-10-BEAR said:

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CALiforniALUM said:

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PA income tax rate is 3.07%
VA income tax rate is 5.75%
CA income tax rate is 13.3%

Pretty brutal difference that puts Cal at a disadvantage, not to mention the cost of living.

There is a reason why we don't land top coaching talent.

---

Not to mention, FL, TN, WA, and TX income tax rate is 0.0%

---

This argument is invalid. The taxes and increased cost of living are the premiums you pay to live in a premium part of the country. They balance out perfectly.

---

No, taxes are not offset by the perceived desirability of a geographic area, at least not for most college football coaches.

---

Which is why those schools need to focus on attracting the coaches that greatly appreciate the desirability of the geographic area and can sell that appreciation to recruits. They especially need to avoid coaches that see the geographical location as a negative.

For example, Hawaii can be a great positive for someone from Hawaii or just someone who appreciates it despite its high costs and taxes. Someone who is from Hawaii or just loves Hawaii can sell recruits on going to Hawaii.

For many people, having a high 7 figure income means they can afford to buy more expensive cars or afford to live in a more expensive and desirable area. However, that desireabity is subjective: some people prefer a huge air conditioned house in Dallas with no income tax but huge property taxes, others prefer a smaller open air home with an ocean view and cooling breezes.

---

The desirability is certainly subjective and I would argue that if a coach who has as one of his primary jobs selling the school and the area doesn't subjectively find it desirable enough to pay the premium than they probably aren't the right coach to be doing that job.

As an aside, Californians pay $3200 per capita more than the Federal government than they get back. Tennessee gets $3200 more than they pay. Florida gets $800. Texas gets $1486 more than they pay.

$128B would buy one hell of a football coach. In many years California's total collection of state income tax is lower than the net amount it is subsidizing the federal government and in any case it is generally close. California wouldn't need to have income tax at all if it got a rebate in excess money that state taxpayers pay to the federal government. (as in my opinion all states should).

Rushinbear said:

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DoubtfulBear said:

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Rushinbear said:

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DoubtfulBear said:

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Rushinbear said:

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DoubtfulBear said:

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This is great for all parties. All Franklin needs to do is consistently win 8-10 games and be a contender for ACC champ every year. I'm jealous of the amount of hope and optimism VT fans feel about this move

---

Be interesting to see if he can do it. He's been living off the fat of the land for years. Now, he'll have to raise his own crops.

---

He used to be at JMU and Vanderbilt and has plenty of ties to the area. Also of all perceived shortcomings of Franklin, recruiting is certainly not one of them. And with the $229M investment by VT in athletics as well as all the PSU kids he recruited looking to follow him, I would say he's set at least for the next 4 years

---

His advancing Vandy's program is the most impressive. That got him the PSU job and the slow slide began, once his inheritance moved on.

---

If you define losing the CFP semi-final game by 3 points a slow slide, how would you quantify 0.471 in 9 seasons?

---

I thought we4 were talking about Franklin. "What abouts" are just a distraction from the subject at hand.

So, with what Franklin has to work with, that one CFP semi doesn't shout excellence to me. Come to think of it, his teams remind me of Cal under JW, just with better raw material. Conservative O and tough D. The Nits are sitting right in the middle of a rrrrrrrich hs football environment. Cal? Not so much. Factor in academic expectations (sorry, PSU, you don't measure up - good, but) and they do bare a slight resemblance.

The thing that hurt PSU lately is the end of the Paterno era. That's a stain that has persevered in the minds of recruits and their families ever since, in my opinion, having no data to back it up.

---

The higher up you go in the CFB hierarchy, the tougher it gets as the delta in talent between teams gets wider. PSU is great, but doesn't have the same caliber of talent of a OSU or Alabama.

It's laughable to call him Wilcox at a higher level. Wilcox has proven to deliver a team that is worth less than the sum of its parts. Wilcox at a higher level is much more comparable to Brian Kelly LSU or Mike Norvell FSU.


I bet PSU will regret this decision when the program declines and 10-2 season are no longer guaranteed with a new HC.

That hire would have been the end of Cal Football

As opposed to …?

DoubtfulBear said:

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Rushinbear said:

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DoubtfulBear said:

---

Rushinbear said:

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DoubtfulBear said:

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Rushinbear said:

---

DoubtfulBear said:

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This is great for all parties. All Franklin needs to do is consistently win 8-10 games and be a contender for ACC champ every year. I'm jealous of the amount of hope and optimism VT fans feel about this move

---

Be interesting to see if he can do it. He's been living off the fat of the land for years. Now, he'll have to raise his own crops.

---

He used to be at JMU and Vanderbilt and has plenty of ties to the area. Also of all perceived shortcomings of Franklin, recruiting is certainly not one of them. And with the $229M investment by VT in athletics as well as all the PSU kids he recruited looking to follow him, I would say he's set at least for the next 4 years

---

His advancing Vandy's program is the most impressive. That got him the PSU job and the slow slide began, once his inheritance moved on.

---

If you define losing the CFP semi-final game by 3 points a slow slide, how would you quantify 0.471 in 9 seasons?

---

I thought we4 were talking about Franklin. "What abouts" are just a distraction from the subject at hand.

So, with what Franklin has to work with, that one CFP semi doesn't shout excellence to me. Come to think of it, his teams remind me of Cal under JW, just with better raw material. Conservative O and tough D. The Nits are sitting right in the middle of a rrrrrrrich hs football environment. Cal? Not so much. Factor in academic expectations (sorry, PSU, you don't measure up - good, but) and they do bare a slight resemblance.

The thing that hurt PSU lately is the end of the Paterno era. That's a stain that has persevered in the minds of recruits and their families ever since, in my opinion, having no data to back it up.

---

The higher up you go in the CFB hierarchy, the tougher it gets as the delta in talent between teams gets wider. PSU is great, but doesn't have the same caliber of talent of a OSU or Alabama.

It's laughable to call him Wilcox at a higher level. Wilcox has proven to deliver a team that is worth less than the sum of its parts. Wilcox at a higher level is much more comparable to Brian Kelly LSU or Mike Norvell FSU.


I bet PSU will regret this decision when the program declines and 10-2 season are no longer guaranteed with a new HC.

---

I was just talking about the style of play, not the results.

Rushinbear said:

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DoubtfulBear said:

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Rushinbear said:

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DoubtfulBear said:

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Rushinbear said:

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DoubtfulBear said:

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Rushinbear said:

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DoubtfulBear said:

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This is great for all parties. All Franklin needs to do is consistently win 8-10 games and be a contender for ACC champ every year. I'm jealous of the amount of hope and optimism VT fans feel about this move

---

Be interesting to see if he can do it. He's been living off the fat of the land for years. Now, he'll have to raise his own crops.

---

He used to be at JMU and Vanderbilt and has plenty of ties to the area. Also of all perceived shortcomings of Franklin, recruiting is certainly not one of them. And with the $229M investment by VT in athletics as well as all the PSU kids he recruited looking to follow him, I would say he's set at least for the next 4 years

---

His advancing Vandy's program is the most impressive. That got him the PSU job and the slow slide began, once his inheritance moved on.

---

If you define losing the CFP semi-final game by 3 points a slow slide, how would you quantify 0.471 in 9 seasons?

---

I thought we4 were talking about Franklin. "What abouts" are just a distraction from the subject at hand.

So, with what Franklin has to work with, that one CFP semi doesn't shout excellence to me. Come to think of it, his teams remind me of Cal under JW, just with better raw material. Conservative O and tough D. The Nits are sitting right in the middle of a rrrrrrrich hs football environment. Cal? Not so much. Factor in academic expectations (sorry, PSU, you don't measure up - good, but) and they do bare a slight resemblance.

The thing that hurt PSU lately is the end of the Paterno era. That's a stain that has persevered in the minds of recruits and their families ever since, in my opinion, having no data to back it up.

---

The higher up you go in the CFB hierarchy, the tougher it gets as the delta in talent between teams gets wider. PSU is great, but doesn't have the same caliber of talent of a OSU or Alabama.

It's laughable to call him Wilcox at a higher level. Wilcox has proven to deliver a team that is worth less than the sum of its parts. Wilcox at a higher level is much more comparable to Brian Kelly LSU or Mike Norvell FSU.


I bet PSU will regret this decision when the program declines and 10-2 season are no longer guaranteed with a new HC.

---

I was just talking about the style of play, not the results.

---

Wilcox's "style of play" would work a lot better if he and his staff were better recruiters. That old Midwest, grind it out style works best with dominant OL and DL, which is the opposite of the teams he has assembled,

Our best recruiting has been at WR, DB and RB and LB which suggests our best strategy would be a high scoring, Air Raid offense, forcing teams to try to throw against our secondary to keep up. It is how we built leads with Mendoza last year (only to lose when we went away from it towards Wilcox's preferred style in the 4th quarter). It is more or less how we beat Louisville this year.

going4roses said:

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That hire would have been the end of Cal Football

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Huh? Would be the most accomplished coach Cal ever hired before. Doesn't matter though - Franklin is way too smart to even consider a job like Cal.

How can that be when Cal is ranked a top Ten HC job ?

going4roses said:

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How can that be when Cal is ranked a top Ten HC job ?

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By who?

HKBear97! said:

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going4roses said:

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How can that be when Cal is ranked a top Ten HC job ?

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By who?

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We are clearly a top 10 team in the ACC

HKBear97! said:

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going4roses said:

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How can that be when Cal is ranked a top Ten HC job ?

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By who?

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https://bearinsider.com/forums/1/topics/130661/replies/2588162

DoubtfulBear said:

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HKBear97! said:

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going4roses said:

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How can that be when Cal is ranked a top Ten HC job ?

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By who?

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We are clearly a top 10 team in the ACC

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Not according to Sagarin, who has us rated as the #12 team in the ACC this year.