Strykur said:

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Cal88 said:

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PAC-10-BEAR said:

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Cal88 said:

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Silver's previous recommendation for the Cal job was Hue Jackson...

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Who do you want at Cal besides Indiana's head coach?

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Oregon OC Will Stein is going to get a HC job next year, If Brohm leaves Louisville then I think they take Stein, who played QB at Lville, otherwise I think he should be a finalist for the Cal job.

The last OC from Oregon we hired turned out pretty well.

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Brohm just got an extension to ward off suitors elsewhere, so Louisville is locked up for a while, but Will Stein can get many other jobs better than ours at the moment

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Stein is definitely someone we should pursue though.

We need to go for great candidates because our fallback option should be Ron Rivera.

JimSox said:

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Can never forgive. NAY

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The kind of thing that Tosh did, is wired in, not just a simple mistake. Maybe, maaaaaaaaaybe, you could score it up to immaturity, but I don't think so. There'll always be that chance.

On top of that, what has Tosh done to show that he could be a successful hc?

gobears3000 said:

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Yea, hire a Cal guy for once.

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what is a cal guy?

wilcox was a cal guy. Holmoe was a cal guy. Mooch was a cal guy.

Cal88 said:

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okaydo said:

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Once upon a time, there was a well-respected Cal assistant who went on to become a well-respected defensive coordinator.

But that well-respected defensive coordinator never made the leap to head coach for some reason, despite defensive coordinating for famous teams in the SEC and the Big Ten.

This is the story of Justin Wilcox in 2016, of Tosh Lupoi in 2025 (so far).

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Wilcox is a better DC than Lupoi. Lupoi couldn't even hold an assistant coaching position in the NFL for more than one season. Wilcox can coach DBs in the NFL, or perform as DC at a decent P4 program, he would be an upgrade over Tosh at Oregon. Lupoi is a much better recruiter, that's it.

• Alabama (2018)
  Defensive coordinator & outside linebackers coach

• Cleveland Browns (2019)
  Defensive line coach
• Atlanta Falcons (2020)
  Defensive line coach & run game coordinator
• Jacksonville Jaguars (2021)
  Defensive line coach
• Oregon (2022present)

---

You've either not done your research, or intentionally left out some details about Tosh's employment in the NFL. The firings were not limited to Lupoi. In all three cases the head coach was fired, and it's rare that any staff member is retained. New Head Coaches usually bring in their own guys.

2019--Head coach Freddie Kitchens was fired at the end of the year. He was there only one year.

2020-Atlanta coach Dan Quinn was fired 5 games into the season. He was replaced by Raheem Morris.

2021 Jacksonville head coach Urban Meyer was fired after 11 games into the season.

So you could say he failed as an NFL assistant, but the failures were also due to total staff replacements. It's hard to get a true reading here. But I'll also add that Lupoi is much better suited to the College environment due to his recruiting energy.

01Bear said:

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95bears said:

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He's a Walnut Creek kid and De La Salle guy that grew up a Cal fan and played for his dream school. I don't think he turns down a solid offer from Cal.

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If that were true he never would've betrayed Cal and told a recruit to go elsewhere on Cal's dime. Tedford already matched the salary UW was offering him. He then went back to UW and used Cal's offer to increase his pay before pulling his negative recruiting on Cal's recruiting trip.

To be clear, I'd have no problems with what he did if he hadn't negatively recruited against Cal while employed by Cal and sent on a recruiting trip for Cal. If he'd just told Tedford, I'm going to UW because they're willing to pay me even more, that's perfectly fine. If he'd negatively recruited Cal while employed as an agent of UW, that's all good. What he did was not. It showed utter disdain for Cal and the coach who gave him a shot at the coaching ranks.

Screw Tosh.

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Pushing for Tosh's return, given how he left, says something about our own self-respect as a program. It's also fair to ask whether Tosh would truly respect a fanbase and university willing to overlook how things unfolded before just because we're so damn desperate for a winning program?

OnlyBearFans said:

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01Bear said:

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95bears said:

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He's a Walnut Creek kid and De La Salle guy that grew up a Cal fan and played for his dream school. I don't think he turns down a solid offer from Cal.

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If that were true he never would've betrayed Cal and told a recruit to go elsewhere on Cal's dime. Tedford already matched the salary UW was offering him. He then went back to UW and used Cal's offer to increase his pay before pulling his negative recruiting on Cal's recruiting trip.

To be clear, I'd have no problems with what he did if he hadn't negatively recruited against Cal while employed by Cal and sent on a recruiting trip for Cal. If he'd just told Tedford, I'm going to UW because they're willing to pay me even more, that's perfectly fine. If he'd negatively recruited Cal while employed as an agent of UW, that's all good. What he did was not. It showed utter disdain for Cal and the coach who gave him a shot at the coaching ranks.

Screw Tosh.

---

Pushing for Tosh's return, given how he left, says something about our own self-respect as a program. It's also fair to ask whether Tosh would truly respect a fanbase and university willing to overlook how things unfolded before just because we're so damn desperate for a winning program?

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This is so dramatic. If he's the best candidate, why would we not hire him unless we're determined to cut off our nose to spite our face?

It's not drama. It's just acknowledging that history matters. If Tosh really is the best option, he should also be someone who respects the program and it's a fair question whether that's the case given how things ended before.

OnlyBearFans said:

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It's not drama. It's just acknowledging that history matters. If Tosh really is the best option, he should also be someone who respects the program and it's a fair question whether that's the case given how things ended before.

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I just don't understand this argument. His beef was with Tedford and the cal administration at the time. Him leaving was not disrespecting cal the institution.

Also in what world does a random coaching hire with no ties to Cal (pick Eric Morris, Bob Chesney, Will Stein, or any other name being thrown around) "respect the program" more than an alum who grew up here, went here, coached here, and would be intensely motivated to prove that he can not only return Cal to glory but reach even higher heights than the administration that he felt didn't respect/value him and forced his hand to leave?

If he's as egotistical as everyone says, great. He'll be motivated to elevate Cal to national prominence as a feather in his own cap? We all win.

Bearbassics said:

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OnlyBearFans said:

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It's not drama. It's just acknowledging that history matters. If Tosh really is the best option, he should also be someone who respects the program and it's a fair question whether that's the case given how things ended before.

---

I just don't understand this argument. His beef was with Tedford and the cal administration at the time. Him leaving was not disrespecting cal the institution.

Also in what world does a random coaching hire with no ties to Cal (pick Eric Morris, Bob Chesney, Will Stein, or any other name being thrown around) "respect the program" more than an alum who grew up here, went here, coached here, and would be intensely motivated to prove that he can not only return Cal to glory but reach even higher heights than the administration that he felt didn't respect/value him and forced his hand to leave?

If he's as egotistical as everyone says, great. He'll be motivated to elevate Cal to national prominence as a feather in his own cap? We all win.

---

How can Tosh be the best candidate when he's had how many years to advance, yet no one else has chosen him? He and his performance have been well-known in the profession. We can't be the first school to mention him in this context. They've all passed.

Rushinbear said:

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Bearbassics said:

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OnlyBearFans said:

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It's not drama. It's just acknowledging that history matters. If Tosh really is the best option, he should also be someone who respects the program and it's a fair question whether that's the case given how things ended before.

---

I just don't understand this argument. His beef was with Tedford and the cal administration at the time. Him leaving was not disrespecting cal the institution.

Also in what world does a random coaching hire with no ties to Cal (pick Eric Morris, Bob Chesney, Will Stein, or any other name being thrown around) "respect the program" more than an alum who grew up here, went here, coached here, and would be intensely motivated to prove that he can not only return Cal to glory but reach even higher heights than the administration that he felt didn't respect/value him and forced his hand to leave?

If he's as egotistical as everyone says, great. He'll be motivated to elevate Cal to national prominence as a feather in his own cap? We all win.

---

How can Tosh be the best candidate when he's had how many years to advance, yet no one else has chosen him? He and his performance have been well-known in the profession. We can't be the first school to mention him in this context. They've all passed.

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He's 44! Tedford was 41 when we gave him his first head coaching shot, as was Wilcox. What's the argument exactly? That since someone else didn't already hire him as a head coach, we shouldn't?

01Bear said:

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Those who want Tosh back are the same kind of fools who will take back an ex that broke up with him for someone else. They totally lack any self-respect and are gluttons for punishment. Cal's better than that!

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Some of you are just absolute drama queens (and probably wondering why exes left you)

Bearbassics said:

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OnlyBearFans said:

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It's not drama. It's just acknowledging that history matters. If Tosh really is the best option, he should also be someone who respects the program and it's a fair question whether that's the case given how things ended before.

---

I just don't understand this argument. His beef was with Tedford and the cal administration at the time. Him leaving was not disrespecting cal the institution.

Also in what world does a random coaching hire with no ties to Cal (pick Eric Morris, Bob Chesney, Will Stein, or any other name being thrown around) "respect the program" more than an alum who grew up here, went here, coached here, and would be intensely motivated to prove that he can not only return Cal to glory but reach even higher heights than the administration that he felt didn't respect/value him and forced his hand to leave?

If he's as egotistical as everyone says, great. He'll be motivated to elevate Cal to national prominence as a feather in his own cap? We all win.

---

I'm not blaming him for leaving. Coaches leave. The problem was going back to UW for more money and steering Cal recruits away while still representing Cal. That goes beyond a disagreement with Tedford.

Given that history, it's reasonable to ask whether he'd respect the job now. I just don't want him seeing us as a fanbase he can walk over because we're eager to forget everything.

And yes, mindset matters. A random outsider coach doesn't need a deep history with Cal to respect the job. They can still come in hungry, committed, and fully invested because the opportunity itself matters to them.

But Tosh's track record makes it fair to ask whether he respects the job in a way that leads to long-term stability. Being an alum doesn't automatically guarantee loyalty or alignment. His own actions demonstrated that.

And sure, maybe Tosh would be motivated now. Maybe he wants to prove something. But motivation isn't the same as respect. A coach who's driven mainly to elevate his own profile can create volatility especially when adversity hits.

All I'm saying is that fit, mindset, and trust matter for a head coach. Given what happened, it's reasonable, not dramatic, to ask whether Tosh would bring the right mentality for long-term success this time.

If he truly has changed and wants to rebuild that trust? Great. But that's still a fair question to ask.

Alkiadt said:

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Cal88 said:

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okaydo said:

---

Once upon a time, there was a well-respected Cal assistant who went on to become a well-respected defensive coordinator.

But that well-respected defensive coordinator never made the leap to head coach for some reason, despite defensive coordinating for famous teams in the SEC and the Big Ten.

This is the story of Justin Wilcox in 2016, of Tosh Lupoi in 2025 (so far).

---

Wilcox is a better DC than Lupoi. Lupoi couldn't even hold an assistant coaching position in the NFL for more than one season. Wilcox can coach DBs in the NFL, or perform as DC at a decent P4 program, he would be an upgrade over Tosh at Oregon. Lupoi is a much better recruiter, that's it.

• Alabama (2018)
  Defensive coordinator & outside linebackers coach

• Cleveland Browns (2019)
  Defensive line coach
• Atlanta Falcons (2020)
  Defensive line coach & run game coordinator
• Jacksonville Jaguars (2021)
  Defensive line coach
• Oregon (2022present)

---

You've either not done your research, or intentionally left out some details about Tosh's employment in the NFL. The firings were not limited to Lupoi. In all three cases the head coach was fired, and it's rare that any staff member is retained. New Head Coaches usually bring in their own guys.

2019--Head coach Freddie Kitchens was fired at the end of the year. He was there only one year.

2020-Atlanta coach Dan Quinn was fired 5 games into the season. He was replaced by Raheem Morris.

2021 Jacksonville head coach Urban Meyer was fired after 11 games into the season.

So you could say he failed as an NFL assistant, but the failures were also due to total staff replacements. It's hard to get a true reading here. But I'll also add that Lupoi is much better suited to the College environment due to his recruiting energy.

---

Fair enough, but if he was doing a good job as a DL coach, he would have been picked up by a more stable HC. Three 1 year terms in a row is a low probability string in a league where over 78% of HC retain their position on an average season.

There is no question about his demotion as a DC from Alabama though.

Also, in the post NIL environment there is less emphasis on recruiting, and more emphasis on player evaluation and onboarding, those are more technical and organizational aspects within the coaching skillset.

Bearbassics said:

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Rushinbear said:

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Bearbassics said:

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OnlyBearFans said:

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It's not drama. It's just acknowledging that history matters. If Tosh really is the best option, he should also be someone who respects the program and it's a fair question whether that's the case given how things ended before.

---

I just don't understand this argument. His beef was with Tedford and the cal administration at the time. Him leaving was not disrespecting cal the institution.

Also in what world does a random coaching hire with no ties to Cal (pick Eric Morris, Bob Chesney, Will Stein, or any other name being thrown around) "respect the program" more than an alum who grew up here, went here, coached here, and would be intensely motivated to prove that he can not only return Cal to glory but reach even higher heights than the administration that he felt didn't respect/value him and forced his hand to leave?

If he's as egotistical as everyone says, great. He'll be motivated to elevate Cal to national prominence as a feather in his own cap? We all win.

---

How can Tosh be the best candidate when he's had how many years to advance, yet no one else has chosen him? He and his performance have been well-known in the profession. We can't be the first school to mention him in this context. They've all passed.

---

He's 44! Tedford was 41 when we gave him his first head coaching shot, as was Wilcox. What's the argument exactly? That since someone else didn't already hire him as a head coach, we shouldn't?

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More that we should interrogate why someone else didn't hire him the past 7-8 years even though his resume would indicate he's qualified. Just about every Saban coordinator with championship pedigree has gotten hired for the top job at better programs/teams.

For the record, I think Tosh should be a top candidate because we need to inject enthusiasm and energy into the program but this isn't the slam dunk others think it is.

MTbear22 said:

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01Bear said:

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Those who want Tosh back are the same kind of fools who will take back an ex that broke up with him for someone else. They totally lack any self-respect and are gluttons for punishment. Cal's better than that!

---

Some of you are just absolute drama queens (and probably wondering why exes left you)

---

Lol! I'm the furthest thing from a drama queen. I just happen to accept that when someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time. Tosh showed he's someone who will stab Cal in the back, despite how much he is supposed to love Cal as an alumnus. (And no, I'm not talking about how he leveraged Cal to get a better payday from UW. I'm all in favor of employees knowing their value and demanding payment in keeping with it.)

For those who suggest that Tosh made a childish mistake and has now matured, setting aside the fact that he was an adult when he made the choice to take Cal's recruiting trip to recruit against Cal, what exactly has Tosh done to show remorse over what he did? Atonement requires taking some sort of action, including acknowledging past mistakes and seeking forgiveness along with changing his behavior. What has Tosh done to show he's even tried to atone for his past malfeasance? Tosh is not a young man anymore. He should know this. The fact that he hasn't atoned for his betrayal is further proof he has not changed. He is who he proved he was.

Cal's better than that.

01Bear said:

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MTbear22 said:

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01Bear said:

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Those who want Tosh back are the same kind of fools who will take back an ex that broke up with him for someone else. They totally lack any self-respect and are gluttons for punishment. Cal's better than that!

---

Some of you are just absolute drama queens (and probably wondering why exes left you)

---

Lol! I'm the furthest thing from a drama queen. I just happen to accept that when someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time. Tosh showed he's someone who will stab Cal in the back, despite how much he is supposed to love Cal as an alumnus. (And no, I'm not talking about how he leveraged Cal to get a better payday from UW. I'm all in favor of employees knowing their value and demanding payment in keeping with it.)

For those who suggest that Tosh made a childish mistake and has now matured, setting aside the fact that he was an adult when he made the choice to take Cal's recruiting trip to recruit against Cal, what exactly has Tosh done to show remorse over what he did? Atonement requires taking some sort of action, including acknowledging past mistakes and seeking forgiveness along with changing his behavior. What has Tosh done to show he's even tried to atone for his past malfeasance? Tosh is not a young man anymore. He should know this. The fact that he hasn't atoned for his betrayal is further proof he has not changed. He is who he proved he was.

Cal's better than that.

---

Sorry but your take is losing.
"All's fair in love and war"….and you don't bring a knife to a gun fight.
College football is war. No getting around it. It's big business. I'm glad Cal has finally recognized that nice guys finish last.

If that doesn't suit you, I get it. Find another sport or team. But I for one am tired of 15 straight years of Cal being irrelevant .

"Winning is not everything; it is far better to play the game squarely and lose than to win at the sacrifice of an ideal."

Alkiadt said:

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01Bear said:

---

MTbear22 said:

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01Bear said:

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Those who want Tosh back are the same kind of fools who will take back an ex that broke up with him for someone else. They totally lack any self-respect and are gluttons for punishment. Cal's better than that!

---

Some of you are just absolute drama queens (and probably wondering why exes left you)

---

Lol! I'm the furthest thing from a drama queen. I just happen to accept that when someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time. Tosh showed he's someone who will stab Cal in the back, despite how much he is supposed to love Cal as an alumnus. (And no, I'm not talking about how he leveraged Cal to get a better payday from UW. I'm all in favor of employees knowing their value and demanding payment in keeping with it.)

For those who suggest that Tosh made a childish mistake and has now matured, setting aside the fact that he was an adult when he made the choice to take Cal's recruiting trip to recruit against Cal, what exactly has Tosh done to show remorse over what he did? Atonement requires taking some sort of action, including acknowledging past mistakes and seeking forgiveness along with changing his behavior. What has Tosh done to show he's even tried to atone for his past malfeasance? Tosh is not a young man anymore. He should know this. The fact that he hasn't atoned for his betrayal is further proof he has not changed. He is who he proved he was.

Cal's better than that.

---

Sorry but your take is losing.
"All's fair in love and war"….and you don't bring a knife to a gun fight.
College football is war. No getting around it. It's big business. I'm glad Cal is finally recognized that nice guys finish last.

If that doesn't suit you, I get it. Find another sport or team. But I for one am tired of 15 straight years of Cal being irrelevant .

---

You want a capable general to lead you to war, not a salesman. Xs and Os, not Xbox.

Cal88 said:

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Alkiadt said:

---

01Bear said:

---

MTbear22 said:

---

01Bear said:

---

Those who want Tosh back are the same kind of fools who will take back an ex that broke up with him for someone else. They totally lack any self-respect and are gluttons for punishment. Cal's better than that!

---

Some of you are just absolute drama queens (and probably wondering why exes left you)

---

Lol! I'm the furthest thing from a drama queen. I just happen to accept that when someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time. Tosh showed he's someone who will stab Cal in the back, despite how much he is supposed to love Cal as an alumnus. (And no, I'm not talking about how he leveraged Cal to get a better payday from UW. I'm all in favor of employees knowing their value and demanding payment in keeping with it.)

For those who suggest that Tosh made a childish mistake and has now matured, setting aside the fact that he was an adult when he made the choice to take Cal's recruiting trip to recruit against Cal, what exactly has Tosh done to show remorse over what he did? Atonement requires taking some sort of action, including acknowledging past mistakes and seeking forgiveness along with changing his behavior. What has Tosh done to show he's even tried to atone for his past malfeasance? Tosh is not a young man anymore. He should know this. The fact that he hasn't atoned for his betrayal is further proof he has not changed. He is who he proved he was.

Cal's better than that.

---

Sorry but your take is losing.
"All's fair in love and war"….and you don't bring a knife to a gun fight.
College football is war. No getting around it. It's big business. I'm glad Cal is finally recognized that nice guys finish last.

If that doesn't suit you, I get it. Find another sport or team. But I for one am tired of 15 straight years of Cal being irrelevant .

---

You want a capable general to lead you to war, not a salesman. Xs and Os, not Xbox.

---

. His Xs and Os looked pretty good to me. So do the players he recruited to implement them.
You act like he doesn't know defense. Laughable based on his experience. As for Xbox, he was never breaking any rules. He figured out a way to talk to recruits while gaming. Good for him. The incompetence of the ncaa was the problem there.

Alkiadt said:

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01Bear said:

---

MTbear22 said:

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01Bear said:

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Those who want Tosh back are the same kind of fools who will take back an ex that broke up with him for someone else. They totally lack any self-respect and are gluttons for punishment. Cal's better than that!

---

Some of you are just absolute drama queens (and probably wondering why exes left you)

---

Lol! I'm the furthest thing from a drama queen. I just happen to accept that when someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time. Tosh showed he's someone who will stab Cal in the back, despite how much he is supposed to love Cal as an alumnus. (And no, I'm not talking about how he leveraged Cal to get a better payday from UW. I'm all in favor of employees knowing their value and demanding payment in keeping with it.)

For those who suggest that Tosh made a childish mistake and has now matured, setting aside the fact that he was an adult when he made the choice to take Cal's recruiting trip to recruit against Cal, what exactly has Tosh done to show remorse over what he did? Atonement requires taking some sort of action, including acknowledging past mistakes and seeking forgiveness along with changing his behavior. What has Tosh done to show he's even tried to atone for his past malfeasance? Tosh is not a young man anymore. He should know this. The fact that he hasn't atoned for his betrayal is further proof he has not changed. He is who he proved he was.

Cal's better than that.

---

Sorry but your take is losing.
"All's fair in love and war"….and you don't bring a knife to a gun fight.
College football is war. No getting around it. It's big business. I'm glad Cal is finally recognized that nice guys finish last.

If that doesn't suit you, I get it. Find another sport or team. But I for one am tired of 15 straight years of Cal being irrelevant .

---

100%

Duplication

> Yea or nay on hiring Tosh Lupoi to replace Wilcox?

if i had a vote i'd say no, for no good reason, only hoping fill-in comes as soon as possible (obviously)
# in ron & stephanie we trust

OldenBear said:

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"Winning is not everything; it is far better to play the game squarely and lose than to win at the sacrifice of an ideal."

---

I'm more than familiar with Andy Smith's quote.
Too bad that culture is dead in big time college sports. And it's never coming back.

So I guess there's other options for sports fans. I just haven't found any as entertaining to me as college football or basketball.

okaydo said:

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gobears3000 said:

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Yea, hire a Cal guy for once.

---

what is a cal guy?

wilcox was a cal guy. Holmoe was a cal guy. Mooch was a cal guy.

---

I mean, Mooch should have been hired earlier. Instead we got stuck with him as a short-termer.

For those that are a hard no on Tosh based on how he left Cal...

What if anything could he say or do to make it up to you and change your mind?

Would a public apology be enough?
What if he came back with a reasonable explanation for his actions?
What if he publicly made peace with Tedford?

Is there anything that he can do to mend that bridge for you, or is it burned beyond repair no matter what he says or does?

MrGPAC said:

---

For those that are a hard no on Tosh based on how he left Cal...

What if anything could he say or do to make it up to you and change your mind?

Would a public apology be enough?
What if he came back with a reasonable explanation for his actions?
What if he publicly made peace with Tedford?

Is there anything that he can do to mend that bridge for you, or is it burned beyond repair no matter what he says or does?

---

That was a character-revealing action. What has he done to reform his character? Born Again? Psychotherapy? I doubt he's even taken stock. That's how deep it is, in my opinion.

And, I'm still back at the question of, absent the character stuff, how does he merit his first hc job to be Cal? We may be liver, but the ACC is not chopped liver. In all these years, has he had a head job on which we could evaluate his merits at being in charge?

OldenBear said:

---

"Winning is not everything; it is far better to play the game squarely and lose than to win at the sacrifice of an ideal."

---

This is NOT a Joe McCarthy quote, I believe.

Alkiadt said:

---

Duplication

---

Concise, and on point.

MrGPAC said:

---

For those that are a hard no on Tosh based on how he left Cal...

What if anything could he say or do to make it up to you and change your mind?

Would a public apology be enough?
What if he came back with a reasonable explanation for his actions?
What if he publicly made peace with Tedford?

Is there anything that he can do to mend that bridge for you, or is it burned beyond repair no matter what he says or does?

---

I don't know how you guys can be around Cal for as many years and not understand that a story will always be concocted to satisfy the needs of the agenda of the day. Whether that is protecting a head coach whose top recruiter left or protecting a former assistant coach that some want to bring back as a head coach, the facts will change to suit the circumstances.

Alkiadt said:

---

01Bear said:

---

MTbear22 said:

---

01Bear said:

---

Those who want Tosh back are the same kind of fools who will take back an ex that broke up with him for someone else. They totally lack any self-respect and are gluttons for punishment. Cal's better than that!

---

Some of you are just absolute drama queens (and probably wondering why exes left you)

---

Lol! I'm the furthest thing from a drama queen. I just happen to accept that when someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time. Tosh showed he's someone who will stab Cal in the back, despite how much he is supposed to love Cal as an alumnus. (And no, I'm not talking about how he leveraged Cal to get a better payday from UW. I'm all in favor of employees knowing their value and demanding payment in keeping with it.)

For those who suggest that Tosh made a childish mistake and has now matured, setting aside the fact that he was an adult when he made the choice to take Cal's recruiting trip to recruit against Cal, what exactly has Tosh done to show remorse over what he did? Atonement requires taking some sort of action, including acknowledging past mistakes and seeking forgiveness along with changing his behavior. What has Tosh done to show he's even tried to atone for his past malfeasance? Tosh is not a young man anymore. He should know this. The fact that he hasn't atoned for his betrayal is further proof he has not changed. He is who he proved he was.

Cal's better than that.

---

Sorry but your take is losing.
"All's fair in love and war"….and you don't bring a knife to a gun fight.
College football is war. No getting around it. It's big business. I'm glad Cal has finally recognized that nice guys finish last.

If that doesn't suit you, I get it. Find another sport or team. But I for one am tired of 15 straight years of Cal being irrelevant .

---

I have no problem with hiring Tosh in spite of his actions years ago. I have a problem that some of you either want to recast it as okay or worse, as a selling point.

He did what he did. It was not okay. It was not the cut throat world of college sports. It broke the code.

Frankly, a lot of people who haven't gotten over it probably would have if there wasn't a group of people that try to cram Tosh down everyone's throats every time a coaching vacancy comes up and in so doing tries to make the actions he took someone else's fault or justifiable. They are on him. They are not justifiable. If we could at least start with that baseline, the healing could begin.

Frankly, if instead of recruiting against us at our own recruiting visit he had committed armed robbery or been caught with hookers and drugs, no one would effing care anymore. Because none of you would be justifying it.

I DO NOT CARE THAT 15 years ago he double backed on one recruiting visit on one day, in an act that probably took an hour. It has been 15 freaking years. Just stop telling us it was the right thing to do or that Cal deserved it or that Tedford deserved it. It wasn't. Full stop. It's also not a life sentence.

Rushinbear said:

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MrGPAC said:

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For those that are a hard no on Tosh based on how he left Cal...

What if anything could he say or do to make it up to you and change your mind?

Would a public apology be enough?
What if he came back with a reasonable explanation for his actions?
What if he publicly made peace with Tedford?

Is there anything that he can do to mend that bridge for you, or is it burned beyond repair no matter what he says or does?

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That was a character-revealing action. What has he done to reform his character? Born Again? Psychotherapy? I doubt he's even taken stock. That's how deep it is, in my opinion.

And, I'm still back at the question of, absent the character stuff, how does he merit his first hc job to be Cal? We may be liver, but the ACC is not chopped liver. In all these years, has he had a head job on which we could evaluate his merits at being in charge?

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I agree it was a lapse in judgement by a relatively young guy 15 years ago. I agree with you that it certainly is at the very least a character concern. I think it would be fair to request an explanation that shows either why the action wasn't revealing of his character OR what he has done to grow and improve since then.

It should be worth noting I'm not advocating explicitly for Tosh as head coach here, I'm just curious what peoples mindset is.

BearlyCareAnymore said:

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Alkiadt said:

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01Bear said:

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MTbear22 said:

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01Bear said:

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Those who want Tosh back are the same kind of fools who will take back an ex that broke up with him for someone else. They totally lack any self-respect and are gluttons for punishment. Cal's better than that!

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Some of you are just absolute drama queens (and probably wondering why exes left you)

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Lol! I'm the furthest thing from a drama queen. I just happen to accept that when someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time. Tosh showed he's someone who will stab Cal in the back, despite how much he is supposed to love Cal as an alumnus. (And no, I'm not talking about how he leveraged Cal to get a better payday from UW. I'm all in favor of employees knowing their value and demanding payment in keeping with it.)

For those who suggest that Tosh made a childish mistake and has now matured, setting aside the fact that he was an adult when he made the choice to take Cal's recruiting trip to recruit against Cal, what exactly has Tosh done to show remorse over what he did? Atonement requires taking some sort of action, including acknowledging past mistakes and seeking forgiveness along with changing his behavior. What has Tosh done to show he's even tried to atone for his past malfeasance? Tosh is not a young man anymore. He should know this. The fact that he hasn't atoned for his betrayal is further proof he has not changed. He is who he proved he was.

Cal's better than that.

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Sorry but your take is losing.
"All's fair in love and war"….and you don't bring a knife to a gun fight.
College football is war. No getting around it. It's big business. I'm glad Cal has finally recognized that nice guys finish last.

If that doesn't suit you, I get it. Find another sport or team. But I for one am tired of 15 straight years of Cal being irrelevant .

---

I have no problem with hiring Tosh in spite of his actions years ago. I have a problem that some of you either want to recast it as okay or worse, as a selling point.

He did what he did. It was not okay. It was not the cut throat world of college sports. It broke the code.

Frankly, a lot of people who haven't gotten over it probably would have if there wasn't a group of people that try to cram Tosh down everyone's throats every time a coaching vacancy comes up and in so doing tries to make the actions he took someone else's fault or justifiable. They are on him. They are not justifiable. If we could at least start with that baseline, the healing could begin.

Frankly, if instead of recruiting against us at our own recruiting visit he had committed armed robbery or been caught with hookers and drugs, no one would effing care anymore. Because none of you would be justifying it.

I DO NOT CARE THAT 15 years ago he double backed on one recruiting visit on one day, in an act that probably took an hour. It has been 15 freaking years. Just stop telling us it was the right thing to do or that Cal deserved it or that Tedford deserved it. It wasn't. Full stop. It's also not a life sentence.

---

He also (reportedly) convinced "silent commit" Arik Armistead to decommit (and go to Oregon). So it was more than just Shaq Thompson, more than just personal gain, he blew up Cal's recruiting class in the week before LOI day.

I agree it isn't a life sentence, but a lot of people do. It is why I stopped trying to debate with people that Dykes was a good coach, the Air Raid is a legitimate offense and the defensive talent Kaufman was bringing in was good. He was a bad fit. Too many Cal fans hated Dykes and we can't have a coach that the fans hate. Too many Cal fans hate Tosh. It is a bad place to start.

Secondly, if we are not going to get on offensive guy I want to know what the plan is on offense. If we are just going to get a defense guy that is a good recruiter (spender of NIL) I think Rivera is a better choice. There are some people here who inexplicably don't like Rivera, but the donors and fanbase can rally around him. He will be better able to hire a good OC than Tosh can because a successful OC will be Rivera's successor, whereas any OC who works for 44 year Tosh will move on in a couple years and we will be back to the revolving OCs of Holmoe and Wilcox.

I just don't see Tosh as an obviously better choice than Rivera or an offense guy, but I am willing to be convinced. If Rivera really doesn't want the job, there is a solid plan for OC, Sagapolutele buys in and the big donors are ALL willing to back Tosh I would be on board. I am just skeptical that is the case. And if Tosh does not immediately start winning, the fanbase will not be patient with him. It would be ugly.

calumnus said:

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BearlyCareAnymore said:

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Alkiadt said:

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01Bear said:

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MTbear22 said:

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01Bear said:

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Those who want Tosh back are the same kind of fools who will take back an ex that broke up with him for someone else. They totally lack any self-respect and are gluttons for punishment. Cal's better than that!

---

Some of you are just absolute drama queens (and probably wondering why exes left you)

---

Lol! I'm the furthest thing from a drama queen. I just happen to accept that when someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time. Tosh showed he's someone who will stab Cal in the back, despite how much he is supposed to love Cal as an alumnus. (And no, I'm not talking about how he leveraged Cal to get a better payday from UW. I'm all in favor of employees knowing their value and demanding payment in keeping with it.)

For those who suggest that Tosh made a childish mistake and has now matured, setting aside the fact that he was an adult when he made the choice to take Cal's recruiting trip to recruit against Cal, what exactly has Tosh done to show remorse over what he did? Atonement requires taking some sort of action, including acknowledging past mistakes and seeking forgiveness along with changing his behavior. What has Tosh done to show he's even tried to atone for his past malfeasance? Tosh is not a young man anymore. He should know this. The fact that he hasn't atoned for his betrayal is further proof he has not changed. He is who he proved he was.

Cal's better than that.

---

Sorry but your take is losing.
"All's fair in love and war"….and you don't bring a knife to a gun fight.
College football is war. No getting around it. It's big business. I'm glad Cal has finally recognized that nice guys finish last.

If that doesn't suit you, I get it. Find another sport or team. But I for one am tired of 15 straight years of Cal being irrelevant .

---

I have no problem with hiring Tosh in spite of his actions years ago. I have a problem that some of you either want to recast it as okay or worse, as a selling point.

He did what he did. It was not okay. It was not the cut throat world of college sports. It broke the code.

Frankly, a lot of people who haven't gotten over it probably would have if there wasn't a group of people that try to cram Tosh down everyone's throats every time a coaching vacancy comes up and in so doing tries to make the actions he took someone else's fault or justifiable. They are on him. They are not justifiable. If we could at least start with that baseline, the healing could begin.

Frankly, if instead of recruiting against us at our own recruiting visit he had committed armed robbery or been caught with hookers and drugs, no one would effing care anymore. Because none of you would be justifying it.

I DO NOT CARE THAT 15 years ago he double backed on one recruiting visit on one day, in an act that probably took an hour. It has been 15 freaking years. Just stop telling us it was the right thing to do or that Cal deserved it or that Tedford deserved it. It wasn't. Full stop. It's also not a life sentence.

---

He also (reportedly) convinced Erik Armistead to decommit (and go to UCLA ). So it was more than just Shaq Thompson, more than just personal gain, he blew up Cal's recruiting class in the week before LOI day.

---

Of that I am dubious as Arik Armstead flipped from USC to Oregon.

MrGPAC said:

---

For those that are a hard no on Tosh based on how he left Cal...

What if anything could he say or do to make it up to you and change your mind?

Would a public apology be enough?
What if he came back with a reasonable explanation for his actions?
What if he publicly made peace with Tedford?

Is there anything that he can do to mend that bridge for you, or is it burned beyond repair no matter what he says or does?

---

Yes, as I said elsewhere, an acknowledgement that what he did was wrong, that it was a betrayal of his employer and his alma mater, and a full-throated apology would be a start. And if others who know him well, including Tedford, can testify that he is sincere and that those actions he committed then no longer reflect the man he is today, then my sentiment about him might change. If he genuinely appears sincere. But that's not going to happen, is it. If it does, then next question. Is he the best available coach for the job? That, I confess, is above my pay grade.

ducktilldeath said:

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calumnus said:

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BearlyCareAnymore said:

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Alkiadt said:

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01Bear said:

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MTbear22 said:

---

01Bear said:

---

Those who want Tosh back are the same kind of fools who will take back an ex that broke up with him for someone else. They totally lack any self-respect and are gluttons for punishment. Cal's better than that!

---

Some of you are just absolute drama queens (and probably wondering why exes left you)

---

Lol! I'm the furthest thing from a drama queen. I just happen to accept that when someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time. Tosh showed he's someone who will stab Cal in the back, despite how much he is supposed to love Cal as an alumnus. (And no, I'm not talking about how he leveraged Cal to get a better payday from UW. I'm all in favor of employees knowing their value and demanding payment in keeping with it.)

For those who suggest that Tosh made a childish mistake and has now matured, setting aside the fact that he was an adult when he made the choice to take Cal's recruiting trip to recruit against Cal, what exactly has Tosh done to show remorse over what he did? Atonement requires taking some sort of action, including acknowledging past mistakes and seeking forgiveness along with changing his behavior. What has Tosh done to show he's even tried to atone for his past malfeasance? Tosh is not a young man anymore. He should know this. The fact that he hasn't atoned for his betrayal is further proof he has not changed. He is who he proved he was.

Cal's better than that.

---

Sorry but your take is losing.
"All's fair in love and war"….and you don't bring a knife to a gun fight.
College football is war. No getting around it. It's big business. I'm glad Cal has finally recognized that nice guys finish last.

If that doesn't suit you, I get it. Find another sport or team. But I for one am tired of 15 straight years of Cal being irrelevant .

---

I have no problem with hiring Tosh in spite of his actions years ago. I have a problem that some of you either want to recast it as okay or worse, as a selling point.

He did what he did. It was not okay. It was not the cut throat world of college sports. It broke the code.

Frankly, a lot of people who haven't gotten over it probably would have if there wasn't a group of people that try to cram Tosh down everyone's throats every time a coaching vacancy comes up and in so doing tries to make the actions he took someone else's fault or justifiable. They are on him. They are not justifiable. If we could at least start with that baseline, the healing could begin.

Frankly, if instead of recruiting against us at our own recruiting visit he had committed armed robbery or been caught with hookers and drugs, no one would effing care anymore. Because none of you would be justifying it.

I DO NOT CARE THAT 15 years ago he double backed on one recruiting visit on one day, in an act that probably took an hour. It has been 15 freaking years. Just stop telling us it was the right thing to do or that Cal deserved it or that Tedford deserved it. It wasn't. Full stop. It's also not a life sentence.

---

He also (reportedly) convinced Arik Armistead to decommit (and go to UCLA ). So it was more than just Shaq Thompson, more than just personal gain, he blew up Cal's recruiting class in the week before LOI day.

---

Of that I am dubious as Arik Armstead flipped from USC to Oregon.

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Ok, yes, was decommited from USC, was thought to be going to Cal "silent commit" (even more worthless than a verbal commit) and ended up signing with Oregon;
https://www.californiagoldenblogs.com/2012/1/31/2757410/cal-football-recruiting-wire-updates-and-national-signing-day-preview#:~:text=Arik%20Armstead%2C%20DE%20Pleasant%20Grove,Alas%2C%20it%20didn't.