OldenBear said:

---

"Winning is not everything; it is far better to play the game squarely and lose than to win at the sacrifice of an ideal."

---

Damn. I was going to post that. You beat me to it!

JimSox said:

---

OldenBear said:

---

"Winning is not everything; it is far better to play the game squarely and lose than to win at the sacrifice of an ideal."

---

Damn. I was going to post that. You beat me to it!

---

What is the ideal? Blindly following the edicts of a toothless organization that will crumble as soon as someone takes up the right lawsuit and lawyers afraid of their own shadows?

OldenBear said:

---

"Winning is not everything; it is far better to play the game squarely and lose than to win at the sacrifice of an ideal."

---

Any organization that overlooks a candidate's moral or character fitness just to chase wins is setting itself up for serious trouble later.

F him and his boat.

No.

glb78 said:

---

F him and his boat.

No.

---

I'll be very surprised if it isn't Lupoi.

Alkiadt said:

---

01Bear said:

---

MTbear22 said:

---

01Bear said:

---

Those who want Tosh back are the same kind of fools who will take back an ex that broke up with him for someone else. They totally lack any self-respect and are gluttons for punishment. Cal's better than that!

---

Some of you are just absolute drama queens (and probably wondering why exes left you)

---

Lol! I'm the furthest thing from a drama queen. I just happen to accept that when someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time. Tosh showed he's someone who will stab Cal in the back, despite how much he is supposed to love Cal as an alumnus. (And no, I'm not talking about how he leveraged Cal to get a better payday from UW. I'm all in favor of employees knowing their value and demanding payment in keeping with it.)

For those who suggest that Tosh made a childish mistake and has now matured, setting aside the fact that he was an adult when he made the choice to take Cal's recruiting trip to recruit against Cal, what exactly has Tosh done to show remorse over what he did? Atonement requires taking some sort of action, including acknowledging past mistakes and seeking forgiveness along with changing his behavior. What has Tosh done to show he's even tried to atone for his past malfeasance? Tosh is not a young man anymore. He should know this. The fact that he hasn't atoned for his betrayal is further proof he has not changed. He is who he proved he was.

Cal's better than that.

---

Sorry but your take is losing.
"All's fair in love and war"….and you don't bring a knife to a gun fight.
College football is war. No getting around it. It's big business. I'm glad Cal has finally recognized that nice guys finish last.

If that doesn't suit you, I get it. Find another sport or team. But I for one am tired of 15 straight years of Cal being irrelevant .

---

I have to add this since we are talking about losers and "all is fair" and bringing a knife to a gun fight.

When you are playing a team who takes advantage of the rules (all is fair, I acknowledge - we did the same later) to try and run your defense off the field and prevent you from making substitutions when they have you in a mismatch, you do what everyone else does and was doing and take advantage of the injured player rule to stop play when you are getting overrun so you can get subs in there. And when your player does a comically bad job of acting and gets national attention to the point that the conference feels they need to do something to stop the story (even though everyone including the team you were playing has been doing the same thing) and demands you suspend someone for a game, the player's position coach steps up. Because you don't need the damned DL coach at the game. You need your head coach, and you need your DC. Just like if it was the starting QB who did the deed or an All American player. Someone else takes the hit. When your star basketball player has four fouls and he fouls someone, the guy standing next to him invariably raises his hand to try and take the foul call. That is called "All is fair". You keep your most important personnel at the game. There is just no freaking way that Tosh did not understand that. Frankly, I would have expected him to volunteer. But it sounds better to some to say "Tedford threw him under the bus" than to say "Tedford didn't value him enough to pay him what he thought he was worth". Frankly, the latter is a much bigger reason to leave and to be mad and feel disrespected. I can absolutely see and be sympathetic to "I built this damned recruiting class and you don't think I'm worth paying for? Eff you man! See how you do without me. And, oh, by the way, this recruit is mine, not Cal's and I'm going to take him with me" But I guess to some it feels like that is leaving Cal for the money so we have to concoct this ridiculous throwing under the bus story.

And, by the way, at the time this happened, while I acknowledged Tosh did something bad, I was very loud that the real issue was Cal not paying him in the first place especially after they just spent half a billion dollars on a stadium to be competitive.

MrGPAC said:

---

For those that are a hard no on Tosh based on how he left Cal...

What if anything could he say or do to make it up to you and change your mind?

Would a public apology be enough?
What if he came back with a reasonable explanation for his actions?
What if he publicly made peace with Tedford?

Is there anything that he can do to mend that bridge for you, or is it burned beyond repair no matter what he says or does?

---

Tosh is a master salesman. He could sell ice cubes to Eskimos Innuits. If he gets hired, he will express regrets for his transgressions and love for his alma mater in a way that will assuage many of his critics. He will come off as very sincere -- except to the most stubborn among us -- and probably is.

And I think that's a good thing. Then he can sell JKS on coming back and top recruits on coming to Cal.

My biggest concern about Tosh is can he hire good coordinators and then delegate to them without micromanaging. Maybe we are about to find out.

Big C said:

---

MrGPAC said:

---

For those that are a hard no on Tosh based on how he left Cal...

What if anything could he say or do to make it up to you and change your mind?

Would a public apology be enough?
What if he came back with a reasonable explanation for his actions?
What if he publicly made peace with Tedford?

Is there anything that he can do to mend that bridge for you, or is it burned beyond repair no matter what he says or does?

---

Tosh is a master salesman. He could sell ice cubes to Eskimos Innuits. If he gets hired, he will express regrets for his transgressions and love for his alma mater in a way that will assuage many of his critics. He will come off as very sincere -- except to the most stubborn among us -- and probably is.

And I think that's a good thing. Then he can sell JKS on coming back and top recruits on coming to Cal.

My biggest concern about Tosh is can he hire good coordinators and then delegate to them without micromanaging. Maybe we are about to find out.

---

I have to be honest, my biggest concern is not Tosh at all, but the feeling I get that for some Cal fans it is overvalued by a longing for what they think they missed out on when Tosh left instead of an objective reading of the facts. On the other side, there is most definitely an undervaluing based on the wrong they feel was perpetrated against them instead of an objective reading of the facts. I'm just more concerned about the former because you can make a wrong decision in not hiring a guy well suited for the job and still hire someone else who is well suited for the job, but if you make a wrong decision in hiring a guy who is not suited for the job, there is no making up for that.

JimSox said:

---

OldenBear said:

---

"Winning is not everything; it is far better to play the game squarely and lose than to win at the sacrifice of an ideal."

---

Damn. I was going to post that. You beat me to it!

---

Guys, Andy Smith was a great coach in the 20's when we were playing Olympic Club, Military bases and Native American tribes and that quote is very apt for the spirit of amateur competition. But if I have to hear that quote one more time from anyone from Cal in an attempt to put our losing for 65 years on a pedestal, my head will explode. It is a great motto to put on the Andy Smith bench or on a plaque or statue, but it cannot be the motto of professional sports program.

Winning by playing by the actual rules instead of ones you make up for yourself is the ideal.

BearlyCareAnymore said:

---

JimSox said:

---

OldenBear said:

---

"Winning is not everything; it is far better to play the game squarely and lose than to win at the sacrifice of an ideal."

---

Damn. I was going to post that. You beat me to it!

---

Guys, Andy Smith was a great coach in the 20's when we were playing Olympic Club, Military bases and Native American tribes and that quote is very apt for the spirit of amateur competition. But if I have to hear that quote one more time from anyone from Cal in an attempt to put our losing for 65 years on a pedestal, my head will explode. It is a great motto to put on the Andy Smith bench or on a plaque or statue, but it cannot be the motto of professional sports program.

Winning by playing by the actual rules instead of ones you make up for yourself is the ideal.

---

Playing by actual rules is for losers.

BearlyCareAnymore said:

---

JimSox said:

---

OldenBear said:

---

"Winning is not everything; it is far better to play the game squarely and lose than to win at the sacrifice of an ideal."

---

Damn. I was going to post that. You beat me to it!

---

Guys, Andy Smith was a great coach in the 20's when we were playing Olympic Club, Military bases and Native American tribes and that quote is very apt for the spirit of amateur competition. But if I have to hear that quote one more time from anyone from Cal in an attempt to put our losing for 65 years on a pedestal, my head will explode. It is a great motto to put on the Andy Smith bench or on a plaque or statue, but it cannot be the motto of professional sports program.

Winning by playing by the actual rules instead of ones you make up for yourself is the ideal.

---

Making up rules, like not paying athletes in paper bags or coffee cups?

01Bear said:

---

BearlyCareAnymore said:

---

JimSox said:

---

OldenBear said:

---

"Winning is not everything; it is far better to play the game squarely and lose than to win at the sacrifice of an ideal."

---

Damn. I was going to post that. You beat me to it!

---

Guys, Andy Smith was a great coach in the 20's when we were playing Olympic Club, Military bases and Native American tribes and that quote is very apt for the spirit of amateur competition. But if I have to hear that quote one more time from anyone from Cal in an attempt to put our losing for 65 years on a pedestal, my head will explode. It is a great motto to put on the Andy Smith bench or on a plaque or statue, but it cannot be the motto of professional sports program.

Winning by playing by the actual rules instead of ones you make up for yourself is the ideal.

---

Making up rules, like not paying athletes in paper bags or coffee cups?

---

I'm not talking about Tosh. I'm talking about quote that has dogged this program for decades.


And no. Those are/were actual rules

BearlyCareAnymore said:

---

01Bear said:

---

BearlyCareAnymore said:

---

JimSox said:

---

OldenBear said:

---

"Winning is not everything; it is far better to play the game squarely and lose than to win at the sacrifice of an ideal."

---

Damn. I was going to post that. You beat me to it!

---

Guys, Andy Smith was a great coach in the 20's when we were playing Olympic Club, Military bases and Native American tribes and that quote is very apt for the spirit of amateur competition. But if I have to hear that quote one more time from anyone from Cal in an attempt to put our losing for 65 years on a pedestal, my head will explode. It is a great motto to put on the Andy Smith bench or on a plaque or statue, but it cannot be the motto of professional sports program.

Winning by playing by the actual rules instead of ones you make up for yourself is the ideal.

---

Making up rules, like not paying athletes in paper bags or coffee cups?

---

I'm not talking about Tosh. I'm talking about quote that has dogged this program for decades.


And no. Those are/were actual rules

---

Yes, those were rules that Tosh is alleged to have violated.

But let's say he didn't. Let's say all he did was take Cal's money and recruiting trip to visit a recruit and tell that recruit bot to go to Cal. There's no rule against that, right? But we'd all agree it unethical and shows a lack of self-discipline.

One of the biggest problems with Wilcox's teams was the number of penalties they accrued each game. Wilcox never figured out a way to fix that. Simply put, he couldn't. As Tosh supporters keep telling us, Wilcox was behind Tosh's betrayal. That means Wilcox lacks a moral compass, which means he'd lack the self-discipline necessary not to violate rules. Since he lacked self-discipline, he couldn't teach it to his charges.

Tosh, as the one who actually committed the unethical betrayal, also exhibited a lack of ethics. This shows he, too, lacks self-discipline. Without that, how can he be expected to teach Cal's players to maintain self-discipline and not rack up silly penalties that kill drives and ultimately cost games?

01Bear said:

---

BearlyCareAnymore said:

---

01Bear said:

---

BearlyCareAnymore said:

---

JimSox said:

---

OldenBear said:

---

"Winning is not everything; it is far better to play the game squarely and lose than to win at the sacrifice of an ideal."

---

Damn. I was going to post that. You beat me to it!

---

Guys, Andy Smith was a great coach in the 20's when we were playing Olympic Club, Military bases and Native American tribes and that quote is very apt for the spirit of amateur competition. But if I have to hear that quote one more time from anyone from Cal in an attempt to put our losing for 65 years on a pedestal, my head will explode. It is a great motto to put on the Andy Smith bench or on a plaque or statue, but it cannot be the motto of professional sports program.

Winning by playing by the actual rules instead of ones you make up for yourself is the ideal.

---

Making up rules, like not paying athletes in paper bags or coffee cups?

---

I'm not talking about Tosh. I'm talking about quote that has dogged this program for decades.


And no. Those are/were actual rules

---

Yes, those were rules that Tosh is alleged to have violated.

But let's say he didn't. Let's say all he did was take Cal's money and recruiting trip to visit a recruit and tell that recruit bot to go to Cal. There's no rule against that, right? But we'd all agree it unethical and shows a lack of self-discipline.

One of the biggest problems with Wilcox's teams was the number of penalties they accrued each game. Wilcox never figured out a way to fix that. Simply put, he couldn't. As Tosh supporters keep telling us, Wilcox was behind Tosh's betrayal. That means Wilcox lacks a moral compass, which means he'd lack the self-discipline necessary not to violate rules. Since he lacked self-discipline, he couldn't teach it to his charges.

Tosh, as the one who actually committed the unethical betrayal, also exhibited a lack of ethics. This shows he, too, lacks self-discipline. Without that, how can he be expected to teach Cal's players to maintain self-discipline and not rack up silly penalties that kill drives and ultimately cost games?

---

Have you seen me anywhere argue in favor of hiring Tosh?

BearlyCareAnymore said:

---

01Bear said:

---

BearlyCareAnymore said:

---

01Bear said:

---

BearlyCareAnymore said:

---

JimSox said:

---

OldenBear said:

---

"Winning is not everything; it is far better to play the game squarely and lose than to win at the sacrifice of an ideal."

---

Damn. I was going to post that. You beat me to it!

---

Guys, Andy Smith was a great coach in the 20's when we were playing Olympic Club, Military bases and Native American tribes and that quote is very apt for the spirit of amateur competition. But if I have to hear that quote one more time from anyone from Cal in an attempt to put our losing for 65 years on a pedestal, my head will explode. It is a great motto to put on the Andy Smith bench or on a plaque or statue, but it cannot be the motto of professional sports program.

Winning by playing by the actual rules instead of ones you make up for yourself is the ideal.

---

Making up rules, like not paying athletes in paper bags or coffee cups?

---

I'm not talking about Tosh. I'm talking about quote that has dogged this program for decades.


And no. Those are/were actual rules

---

Yes, those were rules that Tosh is alleged to have violated.

But let's say he didn't. Let's say all he did was take Cal's money and recruiting trip to visit a recruit and tell that recruit bot to go to Cal. There's no rule against that, right? But we'd all agree it unethical and shows a lack of self-discipline.

One of the biggest problems with Wilcox's teams was the number of penalties they accrued each game. Wilcox never figured out a way to fix that. Simply put, he couldn't. As Tosh supporters keep telling us, Wilcox was behind Tosh's betrayal. That means Wilcox lacks a moral compass, which means he'd lack the self-discipline necessary not to violate rules. Since he lacked self-discipline, he couldn't teach it to his charges.

Tosh, as the one who actually committed the unethical betrayal, also exhibited a lack of ethics. This shows he, too, lacks self-discipline. Without that, how can he be expected to teach Cal's players to maintain self-discipline and not rack up silly penalties that kill drives and ultimately cost games?

---

Have you seen me anywhere argue in favor of hiring Tosh?

---

The question isn't necessarily addressed solely to you. It's addressed to everyone who claims Tosh is somehow Cal football's anointed savior.

Alkiadt said:

---

glb78 said:

---

F him and his boat.

No.

---

I'll be very surprised if it isn't Lupoi.

---

You are an insider so combined with all the pro-Tosh chatter it is definitely having all the earmarks of a fait accompli.

Big C said:

---

MrGPAC said:

---

For those that are a hard no on Tosh based on how he left Cal...

What if anything could he say or do to make it up to you and change your mind?

Would a public apology be enough?
What if he came back with a reasonable explanation for his actions?
What if he publicly made peace with Tedford?

Is there anything that he can do to mend that bridge for you, or is it burned beyond repair no matter what he says or does?

---

Tosh is a master salesman. He could sell ice cubes to Eskimos Innuits. If he gets hired, he will express regrets for his transgressions and love for his alma mater in a way that will assuage many of his critics. He will come off as very sincere -- except to the most stubborn among us -- and probably is.

And I think that's a good thing. Then he can sell JKS on coming back and top recruits on coming to Cal.

My biggest concern about Tosh is can he hire good coordinators and then delegate to them without micromanaging. Maybe we are about to find out.

---

As I said in other posts regarding DeSean, the good news is Rivera would be the GM and Tosh's mentor, so hiring coordinators and position coaches would hopefully be a team effort, with Rivera helping to make sure the management structure is in place, Tosh could focus on recruiting and motivating and saying mea culpas to the donors and fanbase.

01Bear said:

---

BearlyCareAnymore said:

---

01Bear said:

---

BearlyCareAnymore said:

---

01Bear said:

---

BearlyCareAnymore said:

---

JimSox said:

---

OldenBear said:

---

"Winning is not everything; it is far better to play the game squarely and lose than to win at the sacrifice of an ideal."

---

Damn. I was going to post that. You beat me to it!

---

Guys, Andy Smith was a great coach in the 20's when we were playing Olympic Club, Military bases and Native American tribes and that quote is very apt for the spirit of amateur competition. But if I have to hear that quote one more time from anyone from Cal in an attempt to put our losing for 65 years on a pedestal, my head will explode. It is a great motto to put on the Andy Smith bench or on a plaque or statue, but it cannot be the motto of professional sports program.

Winning by playing by the actual rules instead of ones you make up for yourself is the ideal.

---

Making up rules, like not paying athletes in paper bags or coffee cups?

---

I'm not talking about Tosh. I'm talking about quote that has dogged this program for decades.


And no. Those are/were actual rules

---

Yes, those were rules that Tosh is alleged to have violated.

But let's say he didn't. Let's say all he did was take Cal's money and recruiting trip to visit a recruit and tell that recruit bot to go to Cal. There's no rule against that, right? But we'd all agree it unethical and shows a lack of self-discipline.

One of the biggest problems with Wilcox's teams was the number of penalties they accrued each game. Wilcox never figured out a way to fix that. Simply put, he couldn't. As Tosh supporters keep telling us, Wilcox was behind Tosh's betrayal. That means Wilcox lacks a moral compass, which means he'd lack the self-discipline necessary not to violate rules. Since he lacked self-discipline, he couldn't teach it to his charges.

Tosh, as the one who actually committed the unethical betrayal, also exhibited a lack of ethics. This shows he, too, lacks self-discipline. Without that, how can he be expected to teach Cal's players to maintain self-discipline and not rack up silly penalties that kill drives and ultimately cost games?

---

Have you seen me anywhere argue in favor of hiring Tosh?

---

The question isn't necessarily addressed solely to you. It's addressed to everyone who claims Tosh is somehow Cal football's anointed savior.

---

The way everyone has gone to extremes on Tosh is very silly IMO. He's not a savior and he's not obviously terrible either. He's a pretty good candidate with pluses and minuses like any new Cal coach would come in with.

Exactly. Tosh is somewhere in between the Dream and Traitor.

Lol

PAC-10-BEAR said:

---

Exactly. Tosh is somewhere in between the Dream and Traitor.

---

So more 6-6 seasons ahead then...

Fred Bear said:

---

The one thing I will say that is potentially an argument in favor of a guy like Lupoi is that Cal's #1 problem is that they have struggled to recruit talent in football since the last third of Tedford's tenure. Whatever direction Cal plans to go with head coach, getting better talent in the door has to be the #1 factor in their decision. NIL predictably made ZERO DIFFERENCE in the total quality of our football team relative to the rest of football because, surprise, they had NIL too and had mostly better programs to go with those NIL offers.

---

I think it did make some difference, in that we would have been even worse off without it because Wilcox's high school recruiting has always been poor.

Fred Bear said:

---

BearlyCareAnymore said:

---

MrGPAC said:

---

For those that are a hard no on Tosh based on how he left Cal...

What if anything could he say or do to make it up to you and change your mind?

Would a public apology be enough?
What if he came back with a reasonable explanation for his actions?
What if he publicly made peace with Tedford?

Is there anything that he can do to mend that bridge for you, or is it burned beyond repair no matter what he says or does?

---

I don't know how you guys can be around Cal for as many years and not understand that a story will always be concocted to satisfy the needs of the agenda of the day. Whether that is protecting a head coach whose top recruiter left or protecting a former assistant coach that some want to bring back as a head coach, the facts will change to suit the circumstances.

---

Read this board for enough years and you realize that our fanbase is full of sheep.

I have no strong opinion on whether Lupoi is the best choice for Cal or not, but I am very entertained at watching the sheep who have been told that he's the #1 pick of the same donors who demanded that we hire Joe Pasternack or they'd walk (who has gone on to do precisely nothing at UCSB where he is still not in demand by any other power programs) have complete blinders locked on him. I want the best coach that is willing to come, not the coach that our donors (who have been the brains behind many of the dumb things we've done over the last many years) want. Maybe Lupoi is that guy and maybe he's not. It's not my choice and so I don't care to guess which is the right answer. It's up to Ron Rivera to get that right and (more importantly) not give whoever he picks a 100% guaranteed contract like Mike Williams and Jim Knowlton did.

The one thing I will say that is potentially an argument in favor of a guy like Lupoi is that Cal's #1 problem is that they have struggled to recruit talent in football since the last third of Tedford's tenure. Whatever direction Cal plans to go with head coach, getting better talent in the door has to be the #1 factor in their decision. NIL predictably made ZERO DIFFERENCE in the total quality of our football team relative to the rest of football because, surprise, they had NIL too and had mostly better programs to go with those NIL offers.

And if that means we lower our academic requirement for football applicants, then do that. It's time to stop lying to ourselves that we are different than other schools in college athletics. We're not. These guys are here to play football first, second, and third and maybe they put some effort into their studies as well in the 1-4 years they're here before they go into the portal to their next school. Stop kneecapping yourselves and level the playing field so that we can get better talent on the field.

---

God Bless America. Have you seen the stock market?

sycasey said:

---

Fred Bear said:

---

The one thing I will say that is potentially an argument in favor of a guy like Lupoi is that Cal's #1 problem is that they have struggled to recruit talent in football since the last third of Tedford's tenure. Whatever direction Cal plans to go with head coach, getting better talent in the door has to be the #1 factor in their decision. NIL predictably made ZERO DIFFERENCE in the total quality of our football team relative to the rest of football because, surprise, they had NIL too and had mostly better programs to go with those NIL offers.

---

I think it did make some difference, in that we would have been even worse off without it because Wilcox's high school recruiting has always been poor.

---

100%

The Portal has provided every DB we have sent to the NFL recently. our top LBs, Sagapolutele, DeJesus…. Without the work of Sebastabear and the California Legends, Wilcox bottoms out a long time ago.

calumnus said:

---

sycasey said:

---

Fred Bear said:

---

The one thing I will say that is potentially an argument in favor of a guy like Lupoi is that Cal's #1 problem is that they have struggled to recruit talent in football since the last third of Tedford's tenure. Whatever direction Cal plans to go with head coach, getting better talent in the door has to be the #1 factor in their decision. NIL predictably made ZERO DIFFERENCE in the total quality of our football team relative to the rest of football because, surprise, they had NIL too and had mostly better programs to go with those NIL offers.

---

I think it did make some difference, in that we would have been even worse off without it because Wilcox's high school recruiting has always been poor.

---

100%

The Portal has provided every DB we have sent to the NFL recently. our top LBs, Sagapolutele, DeJesus…. Without the work of Sebastabear and the California Legends, Wilcox bottoms out a long time ago.

---

You have to give some credit to Wilcox for his evaluation of player talent on the portal with guys like Masses, Bush, Austin particularly on the defensive side. This is a key skill in the portal era going forward.

01Bear said:

---

BearlyCareAnymore said:

---

01Bear said:

---

BearlyCareAnymore said:

---

JimSox said:

---

OldenBear said:

---

"Winning is not everything; it is far better to play the game squarely and lose than to win at the sacrifice of an ideal."

---

Damn. I was going to post that. You beat me to it!

---

Guys, Andy Smith was a great coach in the 20's when we were playing Olympic Club, Military bases and Native American tribes and that quote is very apt for the spirit of amateur competition. But if I have to hear that quote one more time from anyone from Cal in an attempt to put our losing for 65 years on a pedestal, my head will explode. It is a great motto to put on the Andy Smith bench or on a plaque or statue, but it cannot be the motto of professional sports program.

Winning by playing by the actual rules instead of ones you make up for yourself is the ideal.

---

Making up rules, like not paying athletes in paper bags or coffee cups?

---

I'm not talking about Tosh. I'm talking about quote that has dogged this program for decades.


And no. Those are/were actual rules

---

Yes, those were rules that Tosh is alleged to have violated.

But let's say he didn't. Let's say all he did was take Cal's money and recruiting trip to visit a recruit and tell that recruit bot to go to Cal. There's no rule against that, right? But we'd all agree it unethical and shows a lack of self-discipline.

One of the biggest problems with Wilcox's teams was the number of penalties they accrued each game. Wilcox never figured out a way to fix that. Simply put, he couldn't. As Tosh supporters keep telling us, Wilcox was behind Tosh's betrayal. That means Wilcox lacks a moral compass, which means he'd lack the self-discipline necessary not to violate rules. Since he lacked self-discipline, he couldn't teach it to his charges.

Tosh, as the one who actually committed the unethical betrayal, also exhibited a lack of ethics. This shows he, too, lacks self-discipline. Without that, how can he be expected to teach Cal's players to maintain self-discipline and not rack up silly penalties that kill drives and ultimately cost games?

---

Morality being causally related to false starts is certainly a take.

OnlyBearFans said:

---

OldenBear said:

---

"Winning is not everything; it is far better to play the game squarely and lose than to win at the sacrifice of an ideal."

---

Any organization that overlooks a candidate's moral or character fitness just to chase wins is setting itself up for serious trouble later.

---

Yea totally, that must be why top programs are throwing tens of millions of dollars at Lane Kiffin, the paragon of virtue in CFB?

Cal88 said:

---

calumnus said:

---

sycasey said:

---

Fred Bear said:

---

The one thing I will say that is potentially an argument in favor of a guy like Lupoi is that Cal's #1 problem is that they have struggled to recruit talent in football since the last third of Tedford's tenure. Whatever direction Cal plans to go with head coach, getting better talent in the door has to be the #1 factor in their decision. NIL predictably made ZERO DIFFERENCE in the total quality of our football team relative to the rest of football because, surprise, they had NIL too and had mostly better programs to go with those NIL offers.

---

I think it did make some difference, in that we would have been even worse off without it because Wilcox's high school recruiting has always been poor.

---

100%

The Portal has provided every DB we have sent to the NFL recently. our top LBs, Sagapolutele, DeJesus…. Without the work of Sebastabear and the California Legends, Wilcox bottoms out a long time ago.

---

You have to give some credit to Wilcox for his evaluation of player talent on the portal with guys like Masses, Bush, Austin particularly on the defensive side. This is a key skill in the portal era going forward.

---

Masses is excellent at coverage but he is the worst tackler I have ever seen other than Deion and sanders is the only guy good enough that he could get away with that.

BearlyCareAnymore said:

---

Cal88 said:

---

calumnus said:

---

sycasey said:

---

Fred Bear said:

---

The one thing I will say that is potentially an argument in favor of a guy like Lupoi is that Cal's #1 problem is that they have struggled to recruit talent in football since the last third of Tedford's tenure. Whatever direction Cal plans to go with head coach, getting better talent in the door has to be the #1 factor in their decision. NIL predictably made ZERO DIFFERENCE in the total quality of our football team relative to the rest of football because, surprise, they had NIL too and had mostly better programs to go with those NIL offers.

---

I think it did make some difference, in that we would have been even worse off without it because Wilcox's high school recruiting has always been poor.

---

100%

The Portal has provided every DB we have sent to the NFL recently. our top LBs, Sagapolutele, DeJesus…. Without the work of Sebastabear and the California Legends, Wilcox bottoms out a long time ago.

---

You have to give some credit to Wilcox for his evaluation of player talent on the portal with guys like Masses, Bush, Austin particularly on the defensive side. This is a key skill in the portal era going forward.

---

Masses is excellent at coverage but he is the worst tackler I have ever seen other than Deion and sanders is the only guy good enough that he could get away with that.

---

Yeah, it seemed like Masses would either get an interception or give up a big-yardage reception due to poor tackling effort.

DoubtfulBear said:

---

OnlyBearFans said:

---

OldenBear said:

---

"Winning is not everything; it is far better to play the game squarely and lose than to win at the sacrifice of an ideal."

---

Any organization that overlooks a candidate's moral or character fitness just to chase wins is setting itself up for serious trouble later.

---

Yea totally, that must be why top programs are throwing tens of millions of dollars at Lane Kiffin, the paragon of virtue in CFB?

---

You're actually reinforcing my point, not refuting it.

concernedparent said:

---

01Bear said:

---

BearlyCareAnymore said:

---

01Bear said:

---

BearlyCareAnymore said:

---

JimSox said:

---

OldenBear said:

---

"Winning is not everything; it is far better to play the game squarely and lose than to win at the sacrifice of an ideal."

---

Damn. I was going to post that. You beat me to it!

---

Guys, Andy Smith was a great coach in the 20's when we were playing Olympic Club, Military bases and Native American tribes and that quote is very apt for the spirit of amateur competition. But if I have to hear that quote one more time from anyone from Cal in an attempt to put our losing for 65 years on a pedestal, my head will explode. It is a great motto to put on the Andy Smith bench or on a plaque or statue, but it cannot be the motto of professional sports program.

Winning by playing by the actual rules instead of ones you make up for yourself is the ideal.

---

Making up rules, like not paying athletes in paper bags or coffee cups?

---

I'm not talking about Tosh. I'm talking about quote that has dogged this program for decades.


And no. Those are/were actual rules

---

Yes, those were rules that Tosh is alleged to have violated.

But let's say he didn't. Let's say all he did was take Cal's money and recruiting trip to visit a recruit and tell that recruit bot to go to Cal. There's no rule against that, right? But we'd all agree it unethical and shows a lack of self-discipline.

One of the biggest problems with Wilcox's teams was the number of penalties they accrued each game. Wilcox never figured out a way to fix that. Simply put, he couldn't. As Tosh supporters keep telling us, Wilcox was behind Tosh's betrayal. That means Wilcox lacks a moral compass, which means he'd lack the self-discipline necessary not to violate rules. Since he lacked self-discipline, he couldn't teach it to his charges.

Tosh, as the one who actually committed the unethical betrayal, also exhibited a lack of ethics. This shows he, too, lacks self-discipline. Without that, how can he be expected to teach Cal's players to maintain self-discipline and not rack up silly penalties that kill drives and ultimately cost games?

---

Morality being causally related to false starts is certainly a take.

---

If you can't see how self-discipline and self-control are linked, or how they're linked to a code of ethics, then I can't help you.

chazzed said:

---

To a degree, I understand the obsession with Tosh. But there are plenty of good candidates out there without the baggage. That pool of candidates will steadily dry up, of course.

---

Agree. NO!!!! On Tosh.
Why are we spending so much time talking about Tosh and Kiffin???
There must be plenty of other qualified candidates out there besides these two slime bags.

Yea or Nay?

4th Gen said Tosh CAN and WILL deliver his sincere mea culpa apology or explanation.

Well, I have yet to hear it - though I recognize nobody cares about how I feel about it.

OnlyBearFans said:

---

DoubtfulBear said:

---

OnlyBearFans said:

---

OldenBear said:

---

"Winning is not everything; it is far better to play the game squarely and lose than to win at the sacrifice of an ideal."

---

Any organization that overlooks a candidate's moral or character fitness just to chase wins is setting itself up for serious trouble later.

---

Yea totally, that must be why top programs are throwing tens of millions of dollars at Lane Kiffin, the paragon of virtue in CFB?

---

You're actually reinforcing my point, not refuting it.

---

Ole Miss is about to have it's best season of all time thanks to Kiffin. Even if he leaves on Sunday, the program got plenty of value and isn't set up for failure.

Michigan barely got a slap on the wrist despite the scandals during their championship season and Harbaugh was able to trade up to become an NFL coach again.

History is written by the winners, not by the lovable losers with a strong moral code.

GivemTheAxe said:

---

chazzed said:

---

To a degree, I understand the obsession with Tosh. But there are plenty of good candidates out there without the baggage. That pool of candidates will steadily dry up, of course.

---

Agree. NO!!!! On Tosh.

---

What about his offensive and defensive coordinator picks?