eastcoastcal said:

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Do you believe someone can grow in 15 years? Do you believe that people are not fixed characters who have no growth? Do you acknowledge that Tedford throwing a young assistant under the bus and forcing him to take punishment for injurygate was inappropriate? Do you acknowledge Wilcox was also a part of the scheme given his involvement as DC at UW?

Being petty for pettys sake does nothing to improve our situation

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Well, you may consider others who disagree with your view as petty. I consider research findings. The number 1 predictor of human behavior is past human behavior. Case in point: when we elect a convicted Felon, why are we surprised by illegal behavior? :-)

OsoDorado said:

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Cal88 said:

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TedfordTheGreat said:

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I echo your thoughts eastcoastalcal

If Tosh didn't have the baggage he did this board would be clamoring for him given his resume.

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• Alabama (2016)
  Outside linebackers coach
• Alabama (2017)
  Co-defensive coordinator & outside linebackers coach
• Alabama (2018)
  Defensive coordinator & outside linebackers coach
• Cleveland Browns (2019)
  Defensive line coach
• Atlanta Falcons (2020)
  Defensive line coach & run game coordinator
• Jacksonville Jaguars (2021)
  Defensive line coach
• Oregon (2022present)
  Defensive coordinator & linebackers coach

-If he was a good DC, he would have been retained at Alabama, not let go after one season. Going from DC at the top program in the NCAA to a DL coach at one of the worst NFL organisations is a step down.

-He couldn't hold on to a DL position coach position in the NFL for more than 1 year, he was let go after every season.

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Let me stipulate I haven't read all the posts yet addressing the firing and the potential candidates for HC.

So, apologies if I missed your HC recommendations.

Other than Aaron Rodgers (smiley face -- for some reason won't print), who are your top 2-3 candidates?

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I haven't really looked into it with enough depth, as I did not expect Wilcox to be fired before the BG fiasco, but general profile would be a successful young OC who runs good offenses and is a good leader, like say Oregon OC Will Stein, or an offensive-minded HC from a smaller program who has demonstrated success or at least great potential.

wifeisafurd said:

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the comments about Tosh not being desired are unfounded. Several former Furd players mentioned to me on Saturday and today that Tosh has been mentioned in connection with the Furd job. Given Tosh's allegiances, any interest on his part across the Bay likely dies if offered the Cal job.

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I doubt that Furd chooses another Cal alum after having had a bad experience with TT.

Cal88 said:

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OsoDorado said:

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Cal88 said:

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TedfordTheGreat said:

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I echo your thoughts eastcoastalcal

If Tosh didn't have the baggage he did this board would be clamoring for him given his resume.

---

• Alabama (2016)
  Outside linebackers coach
• Alabama (2017)
  Co-defensive coordinator & outside linebackers coach
• Alabama (2018)
  Defensive coordinator & outside linebackers coach
• Cleveland Browns (2019)
  Defensive line coach
• Atlanta Falcons (2020)
  Defensive line coach & run game coordinator
• Jacksonville Jaguars (2021)
  Defensive line coach
• Oregon (2022present)
  Defensive coordinator & linebackers coach

-If he was a good DC, he would have been retained at Alabama, not let go after one season. Going from DC at the top program in the NCAA to a DL coach at one of the worst NFL organisations is a step down.

-He couldn't hold on to a DL position coach position in the NFL for more than 1 year, he was let go after every season.

---

Let me stipulate I haven't read all the posts yet addressing the firing and the potential candidates for HC.

So, apologies if I missed your HC recommendations.

Other than Aaron Rodgers (smiley face -- for some reason won't print), who are your top 2-3 candidates?

---

I haven't really looked into it with enough depth, as I did not expect Wilcox to be fired before the BG fiasco, but general profile would be a successful young OC who runs good offenses and is a good leader, like say Oregon OC Will Stein, or an offensive-minded HC from a smaller program who has demonstrated success or at least great potential.

---

So Tosh has a bad resume but this moves you?
2013
Louisville (GA)
2014
Louisville (QC)
20152017
Texas (QC)
20182019
Lake Travis HS (TX) (AHC/OC/QB)
20202021
UTSA (PGC/WR)
2022
UTSA (Co-OC/QB)
2023present
Oregon (OC/QB)

GoCal80 said:

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Hiring the Toshtitute would be unacceptable. Moral integrity matters. Why would we want to insult and dishonor Tedford with such an inappropriate person after what he did to Cal when Tedford was coach? The whole idea is grotesque.

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I wonder what Tedford actually thinks about this possibility.

ac_green33 said:

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Cal88 said:

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OsoDorado said:

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Cal88 said:

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TedfordTheGreat said:

---

I echo your thoughts eastcoastalcal

If Tosh didn't have the baggage he did this board would be clamoring for him given his resume.

---

• Alabama (2016)
  Outside linebackers coach
• Alabama (2017)
  Co-defensive coordinator & outside linebackers coach
• Alabama (2018)
  Defensive coordinator & outside linebackers coach
• Cleveland Browns (2019)
  Defensive line coach
• Atlanta Falcons (2020)
  Defensive line coach & run game coordinator
• Jacksonville Jaguars (2021)
  Defensive line coach
• Oregon (2022present)
  Defensive coordinator & linebackers coach

-If he was a good DC, he would have been retained at Alabama, not let go after one season. Going from DC at the top program in the NCAA to a DL coach at one of the worst NFL organisations is a step down.

-He couldn't hold on to a DL position coach position in the NFL for more than 1 year, he was let go after every season.

---

Let me stipulate I haven't read all the posts yet addressing the firing and the potential candidates for HC.

So, apologies if I missed your HC recommendations.

Other than Aaron Rodgers (smiley face -- for some reason won't print), who are your top 2-3 candidates?

---

I haven't really looked into it with enough depth, as I did not expect Wilcox to be fired before the BG fiasco, but general profile would be a successful young OC who runs good offenses and is a good leader, like say Oregon OC Will Stein, or an offensive-minded HC from a smaller program who has demonstrated success or at least great potential.

---

So Tosh has a bad resume but this moves you?
2013
Louisville (GA)
2014
Louisville (QC)
20152017
Texas (QC)
20182019
Lake Travis HS (TX) (AHC/OC/QB)
20202021
UTSA (PGC/WR)
2022
UTSA (Co-OC/QB)
2023present
Oregon (OC/QB)

---

The last jump from UTSA to Oregon is impressive, given that Oregon is the top program in the West, I trust their due diligence in the process of finding young talented OCs. In the first year under Stein their record improved to 12-2/8-1 from 10-3/7-2, and in his the second year they were 13-1/9-0. That is a stellar achievement.

bledblue said:

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boredom said:

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DaveT said:

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Cal88 said:

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TedfordTheGreat said:

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I echo your thoughts eastcoastalcal

If Tosh didn't have the baggage he did this board would be clamoring for him given his resume.

---

• Alabama (2017)
  Co-defensive coordinator & outside linebackers coach
• Alabama (2018)
  Defensive coordinator & outside linebackers coach

-If he was a good DC, he would have been retained at Alabama, not let go after one season. Going from DC at the top program in the NCAA to a DL coach at one of the worst NFL organisations is a step down.

-He couldn't hold on to a DC coach position in the NFL for more than 1 year, he was let go after every season.

---

He was the co-defensive coordinator in 2017, the year the Tide won the national championship. In 2017, their defense ranked first nationally in total defense, allowing 260.4 yards per game. They also led the nation in rushing defense, permitting only 66.4 yards per game, and were second in scoring defense, allowing 9.8 points per game.

In 2018, he was the defensive coordinator. The Tide played for the national championship that year, but lost to Clemson. In 2018, their defense ranked #12 nationally in points allowed.

Since joining Oregon as the DC, the Ducks have consistently ranked in the top 20 in most defensive categories, and are the #3 ranked defense in yards allowed this season.

No idea if he's any good, but statistically he's led very solid defenses as a college DC.

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He didn't make it through 1 season as the play caller at Alabama. Saban didn't have confidence that Tosh could do it (but wanted to keep him for the recruiting) and hired an insurance policy. After seeing Tosh fail early in the season Saban demoted him and handed play calling to the insurance policy. So yes, Alabama had a good defense that year and Tosh did play a part in it but mostly through recruiting.

"Lupoi seemed overwhelmed during practices and didn't totally grasp situational play-calling"
https://www.al.com/alabamafootball/2019/01/why-tosh-lupoi-leaving-alabama-was-long-expected.html

So yes, great recruiter. But he can't run an offense or a defense or special teams. Apparently had trouble running practices or making in game adjustments. There's a lot of red flags there around the stuff that a head coach would need to be good at.

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How will he recruit with our restrictions? He had zero at Alabama and Oregon. Why hire a coach who has obvious deficiencies on the offensive side? Didn't we just endure that for 9yrs? So many other candidates seem like a better fit!

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I have been going back and forth on if/how recruiting skills matter in NIL world. Does recruiting chops matter less? I guess if everyone just goes to the highest bidder it does matter less....the $ do the recruiting.

But in a highest bidder world Cal won't win most head to head anyhow. At least for top 300 type players. I have no data in front of me, but I am fairly confident the NIL of many other schools vastly exceed our current resources.

Which got me thinking, maybe if the $ are close then salesmanship and recruiting could matter. How do you sell everything else outside of $ and is that enough for someone to take a little less?

Re: recruiting here - not sure how our standards have changed over the past 15 years, but he's done it here before. I seem to recall he did find some bad fits academically which was blamed for some of the GPA issues at the end. But I imagine given his prev experience here, on the topic of recruiting at Cal, very few people are more qualified. The above question about how much that skill matters in this new world is still an open one for me.

I don't know how our athletic department works with regard to former employees that left under less-than-ideal circumstances. It's been alleged/stated that Lupoi recruited for Washington while employed by Cal. That was over a decade ago.

Are institutional memories that long?
Does the Athletic Department maintain a banned-for-life list? If so, is Lupoi on it?
Is what Lupoi allegedly did considered business-as-usual?

Don't know about "dream" (obviously he has some negatives in his history), but he is a good candidate who would be pursued by other teams, yes. If Rivera has done a thorough search and feels Tosh is the right guy, then I don't have an issue with it.

Yes, some people will have to make peace with the bad way he originally left, but that was 15 years ago.

Cal88 said:

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One telling detail about Tosh at Oregon: he was hired as co-defensive coordinator in 2022, along with Matt Powledge, who was hired from Baylor where he was a ST and safety coach. Powledge came in as co-DC along with Lupoi.

The following season (2023), Powledge went back to Baylor and became DC there. Tosh did not become sole DC, Oregon hired Tulane's DC Chris Hampton to share the defensive coaching with Tosh. It's as if they didn't trust Tosh to run their D, but wanted to keep him in Eugene as a super-recruiter.

Three years into this, Hampton is still listed as co-DC along with Lupoi.

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Ed Orgeron type vibes?

We will never recruit so well that we just roll the ball out on the field and beat 4/5 of our schedule (like peak LSU, Georgia, etc). So we do need coaching skills. That said, getting more talent in the program is also necessary.

calumnus said:

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Strykur said:

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calumnus said:

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ducktilldeath said:

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calumnus said:

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eastcoastcal said:

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Given the ESPN reports that he is a leading candidate, I think we should all take a step back and breathe. I know the circumstances under which he left were undesirable. I understand having resentment towards that. I'm here to say that he is a dream candidate and if we land him, we should be ecstatic.

This is a guy who leads a top 10 defensive unit for a national title contender, is from the Saban tree (and was explicitly named as one of the best recruiters in the country & invaluable members of the staff), has recruited top-5 classes, and has sent tons of kids to the NFL.

Addressing concerns:
"Okay so he's a top-flight recruiter, what about his Xs/Os?"
- He has experience under the best of the best coaching trees. Saban is notorious for manufacturing his staff to be killer with game fundamentals and exhaustive scheme knowledge. Tosh has led top defensive units both at Alabama and Oregon.

"What about the lack of HC experience?"
- In this day and age, the HC has effectively become a CEO / managerial role. HCs aren't calling plays (mostly), they're hiring excellent staff and being a frontline recruiter / representative of the program. These are all calling cards for Tosh. You can even argue this is one of Wilcox's biggest weaknesses- he isn't a hair on fire recruiter and managed his staff poorly. Tosh will come with bona-fide recruiting chops + a rolodex of top flight assistants/coordinators who are from the various trees he's worked in (all winners). Wilcox's tree was stale and he consistently towards the end of his tenture seemed to regurgitate his friends. A modernized system will do wonders.

"Okay, but Toshgate was so bad"
- Ask any of the players and they still say they love him. I can't speak to the specifics obviously but seriously: the players don't hold anything against him. Look at twitter, look at their comments. They love Tosh. There was a whole lot that went on, but if we hired Wilcox who absolutely knew about everything that went down, we can get over it and welcome back Tosh. The last thing I'll say on this is the idea of growth: Do you believe someone can grow, learn, and improve over 15 years? Do you believe people are not static? Swallow the bitterness and understand that we are at an existential moment for the program. It is win or be relegated. Getting over hurt feelings from over 15 years ago is necessary. We can overcome.

The truth is, this is the type of candidate who if not for his Cal ties, we could only dream of landing. One of the best recruiters in the nation (yes, he is) who has coached top-5 units, landed top 3 classes, has literally won nearly everywhere he's gone, and is loved by players, the whale donors at Cal, and has west coast ties?

Don't overthink it-- if we get Tosh, we should be celebrating. Bring Tosh Home!

---

Dan Lanning is Oregon's head coach. He was the DC on Georgia's National Championship team. It is his defense. Same with Saban at Alabama. Did Tosh even do any hiring? I don't trust hiring OCs from schools with offensive gurus as HCs and I don't trust DCs from schools with defensive gurus as head coaches. I doubt Tosh has the organizational and management experience to be a head coach. If Rivera thinks so, maybe, but it is a huge concern.

If we hire Tosh we need to spend big on a OC and if they turn out to be good, spend even more. In that case, I'd rather Rivera be the head coach as we could lure a good OC to Cal and keep them with the possibility of taking over from Rivera sooner rather than later.

Finally, even if half the fanbase is for him, half the fanbase hates him. It is the main reason I thought we needed to move on from Sonny Dykes, not that he was necessarily a bad football coach, but because half the fanbase absolutely despised him.

We need the next football coach to a guy that the vast majority of fans, players and especially donors can rally around. Tosh ain't it.

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This is such a garbage take, and sadly par for the course from you. Kirby Smart is why UGA had an all time defense, not Dan Lanning. Lanning is not a defensive savant, he is a relationship savant, an elite communicator and motivator.

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No need to insult when you are correcting with more info. You know the Ducks and I defer to your knowledge. So you are endorsing Tosh's defensive acumen?

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Right now we need either an offensive/QB mastermind, or a kickass recruiter that can convince JKS to stick around and that reinforcements are coming, Tosh is the latter and that is why he is a candidate, not because he is an ace defensive coordinator

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You still need someone who can make good hires and manage them and run the organization. The impression I get about Tosh is he is a good individual contributor, the top salesman that every company wants. The question I have is whether he can be the CEO. It is an open question. If he really ran the defensive side of a team, then there is a good chance he can. Moreover,if he can't, then you really need a top OC and a top DC. It is just more money. Maybe with Rivera running the organization and mentoring as GM?

However, I think Rivera would be a great recruiter to Cal and has actual head coach and DC experience and success.

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I don't think there's any evidence that Ron Rivera wants the job. He may have wanted it at one time, but he's now 63, and being a college football coach is immeasurably harder, to my eyes, than it was five years ago. I think he's hoping to be GM for maybe one more season, or two, hoping to stabilize Cal, and they try to return to the pros.

aws56 said:

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bledblue said:

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boredom said:

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DaveT said:

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Cal88 said:

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TedfordTheGreat said:

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I echo your thoughts eastcoastalcal

If Tosh didn't have the baggage he did this board would be clamoring for him given his resume.

---

• Alabama (2017)
  Co-defensive coordinator & outside linebackers coach
• Alabama (2018)
  Defensive coordinator & outside linebackers coach

-If he was a good DC, he would have been retained at Alabama, not let go after one season. Going from DC at the top program in the NCAA to a DL coach at one of the worst NFL organisations is a step down.

-He couldn't hold on to a DC coach position in the NFL for more than 1 year, he was let go after every season.

---

He was the co-defensive coordinator in 2017, the year the Tide won the national championship. In 2017, their defense ranked first nationally in total defense, allowing 260.4 yards per game. They also led the nation in rushing defense, permitting only 66.4 yards per game, and were second in scoring defense, allowing 9.8 points per game.

In 2018, he was the defensive coordinator. The Tide played for the national championship that year, but lost to Clemson. In 2018, their defense ranked #12 nationally in points allowed.

Since joining Oregon as the DC, the Ducks have consistently ranked in the top 20 in most defensive categories, and are the #3 ranked defense in yards allowed this season.

No idea if he's any good, but statistically he's led very solid defenses as a college DC.

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He didn't make it through 1 season as the play caller at Alabama. Saban didn't have confidence that Tosh could do it (but wanted to keep him for the recruiting) and hired an insurance policy. After seeing Tosh fail early in the season Saban demoted him and handed play calling to the insurance policy. So yes, Alabama had a good defense that year and Tosh did play a part in it but mostly through recruiting.

"Lupoi seemed overwhelmed during practices and didn't totally grasp situational play-calling"
https://www.al.com/alabamafootball/2019/01/why-tosh-lupoi-leaving-alabama-was-long-expected.html

So yes, great recruiter. But he can't run an offense or a defense or special teams. Apparently had trouble running practices or making in game adjustments. There's a lot of red flags there around the stuff that a head coach would need to be good at.

---

How will he recruit with our restrictions? He had zero at Alabama and Oregon. Why hire a coach who has obvious deficiencies on the offensive side? Didn't we just endure that for 9yrs? So many other candidates seem like a better fit!

---

I have been going back and forth on if/how recruiting skills matter in NIL world. Does recruiting chops matter less? I guess if everyone just goes to the highest bidder it does matter less....the $ do the recruiting.

But in a highest bidder world Cal won't win most head to head anyhow. At least for top 300 type players. I have no data in front of me, but I am fairly confident the NIL of many other schools vastly exceed our current resources.

Which got me thinking, maybe if the $ are close then salesmanship and recruiting could matter. How do you sell everything else outside of $ and is that enough for someone to take a little less?

Re: recruiting here - not sure how our standards have changed over the past 15 years, but he's done it here before. I seem to recall he did find some bad fits academically which was blamed for some of the GPA issues at the end. But I imagine given his prev experience here, on the topic of recruiting at Cal, very few people are more qualified. The above question about how much that skill matters in this new world is still an open one for me.

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"Re: recruiting here - not sure how our standards have changed over the past 15 years, but he's done it here before. I seem to recall he did find some bad fits academically which was blamed for some of the GPA issues at the end. But I imagine given his prev experience here, on the topic of recruiting at Cal, very few people are more qualified. The above question about how much that skill matters in this new world is still an open one for me."

He played a big role in why our graduation rate dropped below 40%! Wasn't "some bad fits", it was MANY bad fits! Probably the biggest reason why Tedford got fired.

Bearbassics said:

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calumnus said:

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eastcoastcal said:

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Given the ESPN reports that he is a leading candidate, I think we should all take a step back and breathe. I know the circumstances under which he left were undesirable. I understand having resentment towards that. I'm here to say that he is a dream candidate and if we land him, we should be ecstatic.

This is a guy who leads a top 10 defensive unit for a national title contender, is from the Saban tree (and was explicitly named as one of the best recruiters in the country & invaluable members of the staff), has recruited top-5 classes, and has sent tons of kids to the NFL.

Addressing concerns:
"Okay so he's a top-flight recruiter, what about his Xs/Os?"
- He has experience under the best of the best coaching trees. Saban is notorious for manufacturing his staff to be killer with game fundamentals and exhaustive scheme knowledge. Tosh has led top defensive units both at Alabama and Oregon.

"What about the lack of HC experience?"
- In this day and age, the HC has effectively become a CEO / managerial role. HCs aren't calling plays (mostly), they're hiring excellent staff and being a frontline recruiter / representative of the program. These are all calling cards for Tosh. You can even argue this is one of Wilcox's biggest weaknesses- he isn't a hair on fire recruiter and managed his staff poorly. Tosh will come with bona-fide recruiting chops + a rolodex of top flight assistants/coordinators who are from the various trees he's worked in (all winners). Wilcox's tree was stale and he consistently towards the end of his tenture seemed to regurgitate his friends. A modernized system will do wonders.

"Okay, but Toshgate was so bad"
- Ask any of the players and they still say they love him. I can't speak to the specifics obviously but seriously: the players don't hold anything against him. Look at twitter, look at their comments. They love Tosh. There was a whole lot that went on, but if we hired Wilcox who absolutely knew about everything that went down, we can get over it and welcome back Tosh. The last thing I'll say on this is the idea of growth: Do you believe someone can grow, learn, and improve over 15 years? Do you believe people are not static? Swallow the bitterness and understand that we are at an existential moment for the program. It is win or be relegated. Getting over hurt feelings from over 15 years ago is necessary. We can overcome.

The truth is, this is the type of candidate who if not for his Cal ties, we could only dream of landing. One of the best recruiters in the nation (yes, he is) who has coached top-5 units, landed top 3 classes, has literally won nearly everywhere he's gone, and is loved by players, the whale donors at Cal, and has west coast ties?

Don't overthink it-- if we get Tosh, we should be celebrating. Bring Tosh Home!

---

Dan Lanning is Oregon's head coach. He was the DC on Georgia's National Championship team. It is his defense. Same with Saban at Alabama. Did Tosh even do any hiring? I don't trust hiring OCs from schools with offensive gurus as HCs and I don't trust DCs from schools with defensive gurus as head coaches. I doubt Tosh has the organizational and management experience to be a head coach. If Rivera thinks so, maybe, but it is a huge concern.

If we hire Tosh we need to spend big on a OC and if they turn out to be good, spend even more. In that case, I'd rather Rivera be the head coach as we could lure a good OC to Cal and keep them with the possibility of taking over from Rivera sooner rather than later.

Finally, even if half the fanbase is for him, half the fanbase hates him. It is the main reason I thought we needed to move on from Sonny Dykes, not that he was necessarily a bad football coach, but because half the fanbase absolutely despised him.

We need the next football coach to a guy that the vast majority of fans, players and especially donors can rally around. Tosh ain't it.

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Half the fanbase hates the idea of him, right now. If he's the guy, and he starts winning, that will change.

Watch this interview - the first thing he mentions is energy. We have had the opposite of that for 9 years. The cal fanbase is desperate to be relevant again. Want to be relevant? Hire tosh

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Can he sell Cal as "a hot product"? He will certainly HAVE to.

LunchTime said:

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Cal88 said:

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TedfordTheGreat said:

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I echo your thoughts eastcoastalcal

If Tosh didn't have the baggage he did this board would be clamoring for him given his resume.

---

• Alabama (2016)
  Outside linebackers coach
• Alabama (2017)
  Co-defensive coordinator & outside linebackers coach
• Alabama (2018)
  Defensive coordinator & outside linebackers coach
• Cleveland Browns (2019)
  Defensive line coach
• Atlanta Falcons (2020)
  Defensive line coach & run game coordinator
• Jacksonville Jaguars (2021)
  Defensive line coach
• Oregon (2022present)
  Defensive coordinator & linebackers coach

-If he was a good DC, he would have been retained at Alabama, not let go after one season. Going from DC at the top program in the NCAA to a DL coach at one of the worst NFL organisations is a step down.

-He couldn't hold on to a DL position coach position in the NFL for more than 1 year, he was let go after every season.

---

This is such a dishonest take, and actually highlights an honest issue that Cal fans would have:

1. He became the DC at a National Championship level super-program. A program that could hire anyone from anywhere. A program that had cache we may never see again.

2. He was let go not for performance, Saban praised him as he cut him loose... why did he cut him loose. Recruiting violations that created a risk Bama wouldn't tolerate. Those recruiting violations were related to his time at Washington! Which is why this thread even exists. At the time in 2018 there was a humorous article about the Saban home for wayward coaches.... or maybe he didnt have what it took to playcall at that level.

...

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This article from a close follower of the program (source Al.com) confirms my point above about Tosh having been let go by Saban because he was in over his head on defensive coaching and gametime playcalling and adjustments:

https://www.al.com/alabamafootball/2019/01/why-tosh-lupoi-leaving-alabama-was-long-expected.html

There is no mention whatsoever about recruiting violations having been a factor in Saban letting Lupoi go, and besides, even you acknowledge that those violations occurred at UW, in no way would the Alabama program would have been impacted.

As the article also mentions, Saban was embarrassed by Lupoi's performance in the NCG where Alabama was trounced 44-16 by Clemson. That was at that time the largest margin of defeat of a Saban Crimson Tide team.

Quote:

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Lupoi, who played defensive line at Cal, had zero experience working with the defensive secondary, a critical component of Saban's defense. Lupoi was known as a tireless worker and talented position coach during his three years as Alabama's outside linebackers coach but there were concerns about whether he'd be up to the task in areas like situational play-calling and recognizing what an opponent is doing in-game and being able to adjust on the fly, which had been a big strength of previous Tide defensive coordinators Kirby Smart and Jeremy Pruitt.

However, Lupoi was the staff's best recruiter -- he's a big reason stars Tua Tagovailoa, Najee Harris and others picked Alabama -- and he was going to have interest from other programs. If Saban didn't promote Lupoi to defensive coordinator, he was likely to lose him. And after overhauling his staff to get more aggressive on the recruiting trail following the 2017 title, Saban didn't think he could afford to let Lupoi go.

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This article's take is exactly the same as mine, with the difference being the author is quite a bit more generous towards Tosh in terms of his ability as a DL position coach. I went by Tosh's NFL record and his 3 consecutive one and done seasons at 3 different teams as a basis for my evaluation of his DL coaching aptitude. The odds of someone landing on NFL teams whose HC is fired three times in a row are exactly 1.1%.

We can argue about that, and your mitigation factors in terms of his having 3 different employers in 3 years is a valid one, however, my main point is clearly supported by the article above. It makes complete sense for someone like Saban to fire a DC who was completely outcoached at the highest level resulting in the worst loss - by 28 points - of that program under Saban. As I have concluded above, for Saban and Bama fans at that point Lupoi's massive skills as a recruiter had been largely outweighed by his liability as an Xs and Os defensive coach.

This is a serious flaw in Lupoi's profile wrt the Cal job, unless he is able to land a smart, talented DC. In addition of course to landing an excellent OC, the sine qua non condition to a successful tenure at Cal. There is no guarantee whatsoever that Lupoi is going to have these two essential elements in place as a Cal head coach.

His mercenary side also means that in case Lupoi does manage to catch lightning in a bottle and put together the kind of staff that can complement him, where he can shine as a motivator and recruiter with his personnel compensating for his areas of weaknesses, he will instantly bolt for a big raise at a top program - guaranteed. If you believe it's different this time, Lucy is really going to let Charlie kick the football, well you are pretty naive.

Cal88 said:

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LunchTime said:

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Cal88 said:

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TedfordTheGreat said:

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I echo your thoughts eastcoastalcal

If Tosh didn't have the baggage he did this board would be clamoring for him given his resume.

---

• Alabama (2016)
  Outside linebackers coach
• Alabama (2017)
  Co-defensive coordinator & outside linebackers coach
• Alabama (2018)
  Defensive coordinator & outside linebackers coach
• Cleveland Browns (2019)
  Defensive line coach
• Atlanta Falcons (2020)
  Defensive line coach & run game coordinator
• Jacksonville Jaguars (2021)
  Defensive line coach
• Oregon (2022present)
  Defensive coordinator & linebackers coach

-If he was a good DC, he would have been retained at Alabama, not let go after one season. Going from DC at the top program in the NCAA to a DL coach at one of the worst NFL organisations is a step down.

-He couldn't hold on to a DL position coach position in the NFL for more than 1 year, he was let go after every season.

---

This is such a dishonest take, and actually highlights an honest issue that Cal fans would have:

1. He became the DC at a National Championship level super-program. A program that could hire anyone from anywhere. A program that had cache we may never see again.

2. He was let go not for performance, Saban praised him as he cut him loose... why did he cut him loose. Recruiting violations that created a risk Bama wouldn't tolerate. Those recruiting violations were related to his time at Washington! Which is why this thread even exists. At the time in 2018 there was a humorous article about the Saban home for wayward coaches.... or maybe he didnt have what it took to playcall at that level.

...

---

This article from a close follower of the program (source Al.com) confirms my point above about Tosh having been let go by Saban because he was in over his head on defensive coaching and gametime playcalling and adjustments:

https://www.al.com/alabamafootball/2019/01/why-tosh-lupoi-leaving-alabama-was-long-expected.html

There is no mention whatsoever about recruiting violations having been a factor in Saban letting Lupoi go, and besides, even you acknowledge that those violations occurred at UW, in no way would the Alabama program would have been impacted.

As the article also mentions, Saban was embarrassed by Lupoi's performance in the NCG where Alabama was trounced 44-16 by Clemson. That was at that time the largest margin of defeat of a Saban Crimson Tide team.

Quote:

---

Lupoi, who played defensive line at Cal, had zero experience working with the defensive secondary, a critical component of Saban's defense. Lupoi was known as a tireless worker and talented position coach during his three years as Alabama's outside linebackers coach but there were concerns about whether he'd be up to the task in areas like situational play-calling and recognizing what an opponent is doing in-game and being able to adjust on the fly, which had been a big strength of previous Tide defensive coordinators Kirby Smart and Jeremy Pruitt.

However, Lupoi was the staff's best recruiter -- he's a big reason stars Tua Tagovailoa, Najee Harris and others picked Alabama -- and he was going to have interest from other programs. If Saban didn't promote Lupoi to defensive coordinator, he was likely to lose him. And after overhauling his staff to get more aggressive on the recruiting trail following the 2017 title, Saban didn't think he could afford to let Lupoi go.

---

This article's take is exactly the same as mine, with the difference being the author is a bit more generous towards Tosh in terms of his ability as a DL position coach. I went by Tosh's NFL record and his 3 consecutive one and done seasons at 3 different teams as a basis for my evaluation of his DL coaching aptitude.

We can argue about that, and your mitigation factors in terms of his having 3 different employers in 3 years is valid, however, my main point is validated by the article above. It makes complete sense for someone like Saban to fire a DC who was completely outcoached at the highest level resulting in the worst loss - by 28 points - of that program under Saban. As I have concluded, for Saban and Bama fans at that point Lupoi's massive skills as a recruiter had been largely outweighed by his liability as an Xs and Os defensive coach.

This is a serious flaw in Lupoi's profile wrt the Cal job, unless he is able to land a smart, talented DC. In addition of course to landing an excellent OC, the sine qua non condition to a successful tenure at Cal. There is no guarantee whatsoever that Lupoi is going to have these two essential elements in place as a Cal head coach.

His mercenary side also means that in case Lupoi does manage to catch lightning in a bottle and put together the kind of staff that can complement him, where he can shine as a motivator and recruiter with his personnel compensating for his areas of weaknesses, he will instantly bolt for a big raise at a top program - guaranteed. If you believe it's different this time, Lucy is really going to let Charlie kick the football, well you are pretty naive.

---

Guaranteed, huh? Must be nice to know everything

ac_green33 said:

---

Cal88 said:

---

LunchTime said:

---

Cal88 said:

---

TedfordTheGreat said:

---

I echo your thoughts eastcoastalcal

If Tosh didn't have the baggage he did this board would be clamoring for him given his resume.

---

• Alabama (2016)
  Outside linebackers coach
• Alabama (2017)
  Co-defensive coordinator & outside linebackers coach
• Alabama (2018)
  Defensive coordinator & outside linebackers coach
• Cleveland Browns (2019)
  Defensive line coach
• Atlanta Falcons (2020)
  Defensive line coach & run game coordinator
• Jacksonville Jaguars (2021)
  Defensive line coach
• Oregon (2022present)
  Defensive coordinator & linebackers coach

-If he was a good DC, he would have been retained at Alabama, not let go after one season. Going from DC at the top program in the NCAA to a DL coach at one of the worst NFL organisations is a step down.

-He couldn't hold on to a DL position coach position in the NFL for more than 1 year, he was let go after every season.

---

This is such a dishonest take, and actually highlights an honest issue that Cal fans would have:

1. He became the DC at a National Championship level super-program. A program that could hire anyone from anywhere. A program that had cache we may never see again.

2. He was let go not for performance, Saban praised him as he cut him loose... why did he cut him loose. Recruiting violations that created a risk Bama wouldn't tolerate. Those recruiting violations were related to his time at Washington! Which is why this thread even exists. At the time in 2018 there was a humorous article about the Saban home for wayward coaches.... or maybe he didnt have what it took to playcall at that level.

...

---

This article from a close follower of the program (source Al.com) confirms my point above about Tosh having been let go by Saban because he was in over his head on defensive coaching and gametime playcalling and adjustments:

https://www.al.com/alabamafootball/2019/01/why-tosh-lupoi-leaving-alabama-was-long-expected.html

There is no mention whatsoever about recruiting violations having been a factor in Saban letting Lupoi go, and besides, even you acknowledge that those violations occurred at UW, in no way would the Alabama program would have been impacted.

As the article also mentions, Saban was embarrassed by Lupoi's performance in the NCG where Alabama was trounced 44-16 by Clemson. That was at that time the largest margin of defeat of a Saban Crimson Tide team.

Quote:

---

Lupoi, who played defensive line at Cal, had zero experience working with the defensive secondary, a critical component of Saban's defense. Lupoi was known as a tireless worker and talented position coach during his three years as Alabama's outside linebackers coach but there were concerns about whether he'd be up to the task in areas like situational play-calling and recognizing what an opponent is doing in-game and being able to adjust on the fly, which had been a big strength of previous Tide defensive coordinators Kirby Smart and Jeremy Pruitt.

However, Lupoi was the staff's best recruiter -- he's a big reason stars Tua Tagovailoa, Najee Harris and others picked Alabama -- and he was going to have interest from other programs. If Saban didn't promote Lupoi to defensive coordinator, he was likely to lose him. And after overhauling his staff to get more aggressive on the recruiting trail following the 2017 title, Saban didn't think he could afford to let Lupoi go.

---

This article's take is exactly the same as mine, with the difference being the author is a bit more generous towards Tosh in terms of his ability as a DL position coach. I went by Tosh's NFL record and his 3 consecutive one and done seasons at 3 different teams as a basis for my evaluation of his DL coaching aptitude.

We can argue about that, and your mitigation factors in terms of his having 3 different employers in 3 years is valid, however, my main point is validated by the article above. It makes complete sense for someone like Saban to fire a DC who was completely outcoached at the highest level resulting in the worst loss - by 28 points - of that program under Saban. As I have concluded, for Saban and Bama fans at that point Lupoi's massive skills as a recruiter had been largely outweighed by his liability as an Xs and Os defensive coach.

This is a serious flaw in Lupoi's profile wrt the Cal job, unless he is able to land a smart, talented DC. In addition of course to landing an excellent OC, the sine qua non condition to a successful tenure at Cal. There is no guarantee whatsoever that Lupoi is going to have these two essential elements in place as a Cal head coach.

His mercenary side also means that in case Lupoi does manage to catch lightning in a bottle and put together the kind of staff that can complement him, where he can shine as a motivator and recruiter with his personnel compensating for his areas of weaknesses, he will instantly bolt for a big raise at a top program - guaranteed. If you believe it's different this time, Lucy is really going to let Charlie kick the football, well you are pretty naive.

---

Guaranteed, huh? Must be nice to know everything

---

LunchTime said:

---

Cal88 said:

---

TedfordTheGreat said:

---

I echo your thoughts eastcoastalcal

If Tosh didn't have the baggage he did this board would be clamoring for him given his resume.

---

• Alabama (2016)
  Outside linebackers coach
• Alabama (2017)
  Co-defensive coordinator & outside linebackers coach
• Alabama (2018)
  Defensive coordinator & outside linebackers coach
• Cleveland Browns (2019)
  Defensive line coach
• Atlanta Falcons (2020)
  Defensive line coach & run game coordinator
• Jacksonville Jaguars (2021)
  Defensive line coach
• Oregon (2022present)
  Defensive coordinator & linebackers coach

-If he was a good DC, he would have been retained at Alabama, not let go after one season. Going from DC at the top program in the NCAA to a DL coach at one of the worst NFL organisations is a step down.

-He couldn't hold on to a DL position coach position in the NFL for more than 1 year, he was let go after every season.

---

This is such a dishonest take, and actually highlights an honest issue that Cal fans would have:

1. He became the DC at a National Championship level super-program. A program that could hire anyone from anywhere. A program that had cache we may never see again.
2. He was let go not for performance, Saban praised him as he cut him loose... why did he cut him loose. Recruiting violations that created a risk Bama wouldn't tolerate. Those recruiting violations were related to his time at Washington! Which is why this thread even exists. At the time in 2018 there was a humorous article about the Saban home for wayward coaches.... or maybe he didnt have what it took to playcall at that level.

---

You are flat out wrong. I cannot fathom that you seriously believe Saban cut him loose after FIVE YEARS because of alleged recruiting violations at UW that the NCAA investigated and found nothing? The only official violation he had was a self reported secondary violation for telling a group of people at a UW basketball game the name a recruit who was taking an official visit. He was 100% let go for performance issues, in fact Saban demoted him during the season and gave play calling duties to Pete Golding.

TedfordTheGreat said:

---

Cal88 said:

---

LunchTime said:

---

Cal88 said:

---

TedfordTheGreat said:

---

I echo your thoughts eastcoastalcal

If Tosh didn't have the baggage he did this board would be clamoring for him given his resume.

---

• Alabama (2016)
  Outside linebackers coach
• Alabama (2017)
  Co-defensive coordinator & outside linebackers coach
• Alabama (2018)
  Defensive coordinator & outside linebackers coach
• Cleveland Browns (2019)
  Defensive line coach
• Atlanta Falcons (2020)
  Defensive line coach & run game coordinator
• Jacksonville Jaguars (2021)
  Defensive line coach
• Oregon (2022present)
  Defensive coordinator & linebackers coach

-If he was a good DC, he would have been retained at Alabama, not let go after one season. Going from DC at the top program in the NCAA to a DL coach at one of the worst NFL organisations is a step down.

-He couldn't hold on to a DL position coach position in the NFL for more than 1 year, he was let go after every season.

---

This is such a dishonest take, and actually highlights an honest issue that Cal fans would have:

1. He became the DC at a National Championship level super-program. A program that could hire anyone from anywhere. A program that had cache we may never see again.

2. He was let go not for performance, Saban praised him as he cut him loose... why did he cut him loose. Recruiting violations that created a risk Bama wouldn't tolerate. Those recruiting violations were related to his time at Washington! Which is why this thread even exists. At the time in 2018 there was a humorous article about the Saban home for wayward coaches.... or maybe he didnt have what it took to playcall at that level.

...

---

This article from a close follower of the program (source Al.com) confirms my point above about Tosh having been let go by Saban because he was in over his head on defensive coaching and gametime playcalling and adjustments:

https://www.al.com/alabamafootball/2019/01/why-tosh-lupoi-leaving-alabama-was-long-expected.html

There is no mention whatsoever about recruiting violations having been a factor in Saban letting Lupoi go, and besides, even you acknowledge that those violations occurred at UW, in no way would the Alabama program would have been impacted.

As the article also mentions, Saban was embarrassed by Lupoi's performance in the NCG where Alabama was trounced 44-16 by Clemson. That was at that time the largest margin of defeat of a Saban Crimson Tide team.

Quote:

---

Lupoi, who played defensive line at Cal, had zero experience working with the defensive secondary, a critical component of Saban's defense. Lupoi was known as a tireless worker and talented position coach during his three years as Alabama's outside linebackers coach but there were concerns about whether he'd be up to the task in areas like situational play-calling and recognizing what an opponent is doing in-game and being able to adjust on the fly, which had been a big strength of previous Tide defensive coordinators Kirby Smart and Jeremy Pruitt.

However, Lupoi was the staff's best recruiter -- he's a big reason stars Tua Tagovailoa, Najee Harris and others picked Alabama -- and he was going to have interest from other programs. If Saban didn't promote Lupoi to defensive coordinator, he was likely to lose him. And after overhauling his staff to get more aggressive on the recruiting trail following the 2017 title, Saban didn't think he could afford to let Lupoi go.

---

This article's take is exactly the same as mine, with the difference being the author is quite a bit more generous towards Tosh in terms of his ability as a DL position coach. I went by Tosh's NFL record and his 3 consecutive one and done seasons at 3 different teams as a basis for my evaluation of his DL coaching aptitude. The odds of someone landing on NFL teams whose HC is fired three times in a row are exactly 1.1%.

We can argue about that, and your mitigation factors in terms of his having 3 different employers in 3 years is a valid one, however, my main point is clearly supported by the article above. It makes complete sense for someone like Saban to fire a DC who was completely outcoached at the highest level resulting in the worst loss - by 28 points - of that program under Saban. As I have concluded above, for Saban and Bama fans at that point Lupoi's massive skills as a recruiter had been largely outweighed by his liability as an Xs and Os defensive coach.

This is a serious flaw in Lupoi's profile wrt the Cal job, unless he is able to land a smart, talented DC. In addition of course to landing an excellent OC, the sine qua non condition to a successful tenure at Cal. There is no guarantee whatsoever that Lupoi is going to have these two essential elements in place as a Cal head coach.

His mercenary side also means that in case Lupoi does manage to catch lightning in a bottle and put together the kind of staff that can complement him, where he can shine as a motivator and recruiter with his personnel compensating for his areas of weaknesses, he will instantly bolt for a big raise at a top program - guaranteed. If you believe it's different this time, Lucy is really going to let Charlie kick the football, well you are pretty naive.

---

You guys are arguing over semantics. In fact you are digging your heels into the fact that in 2019 Tosh maybe wasn't as good of defensive coordinator as Saban would have liked.

Lets give you that point. But consider this.

1. Great coordinators do not make great coaches and vice versa.
2. This board's obsession over something that happened 15 years ago or 6 years ago. Yall are so binary. Can growth not happen in the past 6 years? Could Tosh not have gained experience at 3 different NFL institutions, and then also grew at Oregon where he led a top 20 defense for 3 straight years?

Yall quote timeframe that is so long ago. We are in a completely different world now

---

1. Almost all great coaches start out as assistants - Bill Walsh , Tedford, Jimmy Johnson, Pete Carroll (who was assistant coach for 20 years before landing his first HC gig).

I see what you are trying to say though, not all great coordinators make great coaches, some may know the game well, plan solid gameplans maximizing their personnel strengths, identifying opponents weaknesses, adjusting those gameplans on the go etc, but have poor leadership, motivational or recruiting skills.

Waht you are trying to say though is that you don't have to be a great coordinator to make a great coach, and here I will disagree. All great coaches have a basis of solid understanding of Xs and Os, of football fundamentals, a bit of a football geek in them, see the names above.

The cheerleader in chief model does work as long as the HC has a solid staff working for him, especially his coordinators. That however is not a given.


2- I am willing to overlook Tosh's "business" side if I thought he would be very successful at Cal. What I was saying though, is that in the event he exceeds my expectations and does become successful at Cal, he will immediately cash out and move on.

Not all coaches are like that, Tedford could have taken a big raise by moving to UW and did not, Snyder would have stayed at Cal had Bockrath not pushed him out. Many coaches do value stability, and some even see more intrinsic rewards about being at a place like Cal and would be satisfied building generational wealth at a slower pace than somewhere else, see Cignetti for instance who could easily command a 50% raise somewhere else - but not Tosh.

Cal88 said:

---

TedfordTheGreat said:

---

Cal88 said:

---

LunchTime said:

---

Cal88 said:

---

TedfordTheGreat said:

---

I echo your thoughts eastcoastalcal

If Tosh didn't have the baggage he did this board would be clamoring for him given his resume.

---

• Alabama (2016)
  Outside linebackers coach
• Alabama (2017)
  Co-defensive coordinator & outside linebackers coach
• Alabama (2018)
  Defensive coordinator & outside linebackers coach
• Cleveland Browns (2019)
  Defensive line coach
• Atlanta Falcons (2020)
  Defensive line coach & run game coordinator
• Jacksonville Jaguars (2021)
  Defensive line coach
• Oregon (2022present)
  Defensive coordinator & linebackers coach

-If he was a good DC, he would have been retained at Alabama, not let go after one season. Going from DC at the top program in the NCAA to a DL coach at one of the worst NFL organisations is a step down.

-He couldn't hold on to a DL position coach position in the NFL for more than 1 year, he was let go after every season.

---

This is such a dishonest take, and actually highlights an honest issue that Cal fans would have:

1. He became the DC at a National Championship level super-program. A program that could hire anyone from anywhere. A program that had cache we may never see again.

2. He was let go not for performance, Saban praised him as he cut him loose... why did he cut him loose. Recruiting violations that created a risk Bama wouldn't tolerate. Those recruiting violations were related to his time at Washington! Which is why this thread even exists. At the time in 2018 there was a humorous article about the Saban home for wayward coaches.... or maybe he didnt have what it took to playcall at that level.

...

---

This article from a close follower of the program (source Al.com) confirms my point above about Tosh having been let go by Saban because he was in over his head on defensive coaching and gametime playcalling and adjustments:

https://www.al.com/alabamafootball/2019/01/why-tosh-lupoi-leaving-alabama-was-long-expected.html

There is no mention whatsoever about recruiting violations having been a factor in Saban letting Lupoi go, and besides, even you acknowledge that those violations occurred at UW, in no way would the Alabama program would have been impacted.

As the article also mentions, Saban was embarrassed by Lupoi's performance in the NCG where Alabama was trounced 44-16 by Clemson. That was at that time the largest margin of defeat of a Saban Crimson Tide team.

Quote:

---

Lupoi, who played defensive line at Cal, had zero experience working with the defensive secondary, a critical component of Saban's defense. Lupoi was known as a tireless worker and talented position coach during his three years as Alabama's outside linebackers coach but there were concerns about whether he'd be up to the task in areas like situational play-calling and recognizing what an opponent is doing in-game and being able to adjust on the fly, which had been a big strength of previous Tide defensive coordinators Kirby Smart and Jeremy Pruitt.

However, Lupoi was the staff's best recruiter -- he's a big reason stars Tua Tagovailoa, Najee Harris and others picked Alabama -- and he was going to have interest from other programs. If Saban didn't promote Lupoi to defensive coordinator, he was likely to lose him. And after overhauling his staff to get more aggressive on the recruiting trail following the 2017 title, Saban didn't think he could afford to let Lupoi go.

---

This article's take is exactly the same as mine, with the difference being the author is quite a bit more generous towards Tosh in terms of his ability as a DL position coach. I went by Tosh's NFL record and his 3 consecutive one and done seasons at 3 different teams as a basis for my evaluation of his DL coaching aptitude. The odds of someone landing on NFL teams whose HC is fired three times in a row are exactly 1.1%.

We can argue about that, and your mitigation factors in terms of his having 3 different employers in 3 years is a valid one, however, my main point is clearly supported by the article above. It makes complete sense for someone like Saban to fire a DC who was completely outcoached at the highest level resulting in the worst loss - by 28 points - of that program under Saban. As I have concluded above, for Saban and Bama fans at that point Lupoi's massive skills as a recruiter had been largely outweighed by his liability as an Xs and Os defensive coach.

This is a serious flaw in Lupoi's profile wrt the Cal job, unless he is able to land a smart, talented DC. In addition of course to landing an excellent OC, the sine qua non condition to a successful tenure at Cal. There is no guarantee whatsoever that Lupoi is going to have these two essential elements in place as a Cal head coach.

His mercenary side also means that in case Lupoi does manage to catch lightning in a bottle and put together the kind of staff that can complement him, where he can shine as a motivator and recruiter with his personnel compensating for his areas of weaknesses, he will instantly bolt for a big raise at a top program - guaranteed. If you believe it's different this time, Lucy is really going to let Charlie kick the football, well you are pretty naive.

---

You guys are arguing over semantics. In fact you are digging your heels into the fact that in 2019 Tosh maybe wasn't as good of defensive coordinator as Saban would have liked.

Lets give you that point. But consider this.

1. Great coordinators do not make great coaches and vice versa.
2. This board's obsession over something that happened 15 years ago or 6 years ago. Yall are so binary. Can growth not happen in the past 6 years? Could Tosh not have gained experience at 3 different NFL institutions, and then also grew at Oregon where he led a top 20 defense for 3 straight years?

Yall quote timeframe that is so long ago. We are in a completely different world now

---

1. Almost all great coaches start out as assistants - Bill Walsh , Tedford, Jimmy Johnson, Pete Carroll (who was assistant coach for 20 years before landing his first HC gig).

I see what you are trying to say though, not all great coordinators make great coaches, some may know the game well, plan solid gameplans maximizing their personnel strengths, identifying opponents weaknesses, adjusting those gameplans on the go etc, but have poor leadership, motivational or recruiting skills.

Waht you are trying to say though is that you don't have to be a great coordinator to make a great coach, and here I will disagree. All great coaches have a basis of solid understanding of Xs and Os, of football fundamentals, a bit of a football geek in them, see the names above.

The cheerleader in chief model does work as long as the HC has a solid staff working for him, especially his coordinators. That however is not a given.


2- I am willing to overlook Tosh's "business" side if I thought he would be very successful at Cal. What I was saying though, is that in the event he exceeds my expectations and does become successful at Cal, he will immediately cash out and move on.

Not all coaches are like that, Tedford could have taken a big raise by moving to UW and did not, Snyder would have stayed at Cal had Bockrath not pushed him out. Many coaches do value stability, and some even see more intrinsic rewards about being at a place like Cal and would be satisfied building generational wealth at a slower pace than somewhere else, see Cignetti for instance who could easily command a 50% raise somewhere else - but not Tosh.

---

I think we are coming to an understanding. If we hire Tosh, I'd like to see him flanked by great football minds. I think what you fear is a Deion Sanders type situation. All hype and talent,he brought in his 2 and a half sons that were clearly way better than everyone else on the field, especially hunter, but that he is not a good coach and after a year or two it flames out.

But the reality is that stars do make a difference in coaching. It has to be a combination of stars + fundamentals. I'd argue that Harsin is a perfect example of this. His game plans are OK, he's probably a good offensive mind, but his doesn't have the players. We cannot even get push to get 1 yard. No tactical strategy is going to fix that.

We have a HUGE talent gap. Tosh will shore up that talent gap. We can find the strategy with the OC and DC (and again I think Tosh is no slouch himself), and Ron can help with the strategy.

I'd be OK too if we hire a great head coach who knows Xs and Os well, and then hire a coordinator to shore up the talent gap. But that is riskier IMO. How do you prove that someone we are looking at will absolutely nail the Xs and Os? And can we find an OC or DC that is an insane recruiter? If so, why would they want to come here?

In Tosh you have a guaranteed bonafied recruiter, guaranteed (to quote you). so you are solving for 1/2 of the equation already.

Someone noted that tosh at 44 would be 1 of the older coaches starting at Cal it does make me sort of wonder if tosh is really that good why has he not already been a head coach Just speculating

Oakbear said:

---

Someone noted that tosh at 44 would be 1 of the older coaches starting at Cal it does make me sort of wonder if tosh is really that good why has he not already been a head coach Just speculating

---

He took a long route from Division II to FCS to Group of 5 then to P4 but Curt Cignetti did not get his first P4 job until 62, Brent Venables also was a longtime assistant before taking the OU job at 51, not everybody is leaping to becoming the head guy in charge as a coach