TheBearsHaveWon;531846 said:

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On the kicks from the penalty mark, Solo played admirably. The penalty mark is 12 yards from the goal line. A well kicked ball reaches the goal in .5 seconds. A keeper can reach the corner of the goalpost in .6 seconds. Basically the keeper must start to lean/dive just before the ball is struck. The keeper has to guess which side to dive to. Saving one ball out of the five should be enough to win the shootout. Solo did that. The fact that the Japanese keeper saved the first goal with her foot! means she guessed correctly on her dive and started before the ball was struck. Her second save was also on a good guess but that was a poorly struck ball. The Japanese keeper knew the US tendencies. Even so, the US kickers should have found the goal. Wambach's goal was a clinic on how it's done.
All this is not even counting all the opportunities the US offense missed. They could have easily had two more goals.
This loss is not on Solo.

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Solo stopped one of four in the shootout, not one of five. And I believe that the success rate on penalty kicks (at least at the men's level) is right around 75%. So, although Solo did not cost them the shootout, and more blame goes to the shooters, I think it is a stretch to say that she played admirably. She was average in the shootout in a game when average ended up not being good enough.

it's taken me years, and I'm still not there yet, but to appreciate soccer, you really have to put it in a category by itself. You can't try to compare soccer to football, basketball, baseball, etc. and still try to appreciate it.

I've argued for years that soccer would be better if there were more scoring, or at least more shots on goals, but I've just about given up even that argument.

It seems people don't try to compare golf or nascar to football, so why try to compare soccer?

After all, if all sports followed the same 'formula' wouldn't it be less entertaining? Think of soccer as kind of a 'change up'.

I've learned to really appreciate the unique game of soccer, and now truly enjoy and get excited about it (during big events such as World Cup and Olympics).

And anyone who couldn't enjoy the USA vs Japan Championship game with all its drama and great plays, probably won't ever be a soccer fan no matter what the rules would be.

Calcoholic;531992 said:

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It's frustrating how soccer results often seem so arbitrary. The US controlled the ball for most of the game, and by many accounts played a better match. To Japan's credit, they never gave up and kept pressing, and their aggressive substitutions seemed to work. But, both of the Japanese goals seemed fortunate, especially the first one. Whereas, it seems very unfortunate that the US didn't have about 4 goals by halftime.

I don't think I'm just being a homer because the US certainly had it's share of seemingly lucky victories as well...arguably the wins against Brazil and France both qualify, not to mention the mens' win over England last year.

Besides, is there any more unsatisfying way to see a game end than the capricious "shootout." I'd rather see sudden-death overtime until someone scores or until they all drop. Can you imagine if the World Series was decided by a home run derby? Or if after one overtime in NBA, the Championship was decided by a free-throw contest? What if the Superbowl was decided by best of 5 field goals from the 35 yard line? Forget hockey, that sport is a whole other mess.

But my point is, it's not just the shootout that seems arbitrary, but the game as a whole. In a game were scoring is so rare, and where matches are often decided by 1-0 or 2-1 margins, there's waaaay too much room for luck .

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TheBearsHaveWon;531846 said:

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I don't think you can pin this loss on Solo. As the keeper she IS responsible for the defense. They were mostly successful in thwarting Japan's sophisticated and possession oriented attack. Give Japan some credit for causing the confusion in the back line on the first goal - and even that goal was a bit unlucky for the US as that ball was cleared but for the second defender who should have been marking Miyama getting in the way. Miyama was there to clean up the mess.
On the corner kick goal Solo had no chance. In fact I think the US was caught a bit off guard. If I remember correctly almost every corner to that point, Japan conceded to the much taller US team and played the ball short to the corner of the penalty area. On the last corner Japan was in a conventional corner set up but played a short kick that barely reached the goal area.
Again give Japan credit. Sawa ran across from the top of the goal area, gaining a step on her mark to meet the ball on the goal area line and deflect it in with some power. This was obviously a well practiced set piece executed to perfection. Again, Solo had no chance on that play.
On the kicks from the penalty mark, Solo played admirably. The penalty mark is 12 yards from the goal line. A well kicked ball reaches the goal in .5 seconds. A keeper can reach the corner of the goalpost in .6 seconds. Basically the keeper must start to lean/dive just before the ball is struck. The keeper has to guess which side to dive to. Saving one ball out of the five should be enough to win the shootout. Solo did that. The fact that the Japanese keeper saved the first goal with her foot! means she guessed correctly on her dive and started before the ball was struck. Her second save was also on a good guess but that was a poorly struck ball. The Japanese keeper knew the US tendencies. Even so, the US kickers should have found the goal. Wambach's goal was a clinic on how it's done.
All this is not even counting all the opportunities the US offense missed. They could have easily had two more goals.
This loss is not on Solo.

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I should have said that Solo was awful and the team choked. I don't believe the loss was on her; it was an epic gag job by the team.

In a low scoring game like soccer your goaltender usually has to make a difference. When I watched her-and admittedly these are through my old hockey player eyes- I found her unimpressive. On the first goal, it's a give away and a point blank shot. She goes the opposite way of the ball-clearly a guess on her part but on a bang bang play like that I'm not sure you just don't hold your ground and hope the kicker is too quick or jump out. On the second goal, yes it's a deflection but she looks late to the net being slightly tangled up in front and late on tracking the ball. Again, not her fault per se but she does not impress me with how ready she is. On a number of other possessions she was out of position in front of the net and got away with it. During the penalty kicks she looked slow-maybe she was tired or hurt. All in all -and maybe this is a bad day-she didn't impress me at all-fairly rudimentary reflexes and decision making but maybe this is womens soccer goal tending.

I have come to enjoy soccer much more since the 2010 World Cup, that being the first time I gave it much of a chance. I purposely didn't expand on all the things I like about the sport post because it was beside the point. One thing I'll say, I can see why they call it "the beautiful sport." So my post was coming from the the POV of..."I'm starting to like this sport but..."

Unfortunately, the comparisons with American sports are inevitable given that the media is always asking "Why doesn't America love the world's #1 sport," and "when will soccer take off in America," etc. These are valid questions and everyone seems to have a different opinion.

P.S. regarding NASCAR, nobody compares it to other sports because it's not a real sport...no more so than an engineering competition is a real sport IMO.

Calcoholic;531992 said:

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But my point is, it's not just the shootout that seems arbitrary, but the game as a whole. In a game were scoring is so rare, and where matches are often decided by 1-0 or 2-1 margins, there's waaaay too much room for luck .

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Would agree - lifelong soccer player here so not just a casual observer - and it always seemed to me that playing one soccer game to determine a champion is like a one game baseball playoff. There are few scoring chances and the chances of success per attempt are quite low. Better team often wins, but one game is not really enough to enable you to reliably determine just which team that is. Unfortunately, because it's so physically demanding, you can't really play 3 or 5 game series in soccer, certainly not within the framework of the world cup.

Bottom line, you crown a champion based on the team that scored the most goals that game (or won the shootout), just like the NCAA basketball tournament, but the so-called better team often comes out on the short end of the stick.

...a lot of the New Orleans Saints winning the Super Bore after Katrina...karma.

If there is any nation I could have pulled for other than our girls it would have been Japan. They can use a pick me up.

Besides....good Cal press on women's soccer at Cal and our little budding super star!

:gobears:

GB54, in soccer the goals are 24' wide, as opposed to 6' in hockey... I'm not sure if there is one goalie on this planet that could have saved the 2nd goal, that was a close range fast deviation that actually got deflected right in front of the goal.
The deflection is not all that visible on the official camera angles. From the opposite angle camera view it looked like she might have been able to save that ball had Wambach not deflected it with her hand, Solo actually reacted well to that shot.

On the first goal she played the percentages, expecting the attacker to control the ball and fire instead of the very quick poke across the net right off the bounce.

As TBHW said, you can`t expect any goalie to save more than one PK on a series unless the other team is shooting duds.

The US just had to work the clock and play cautious, but they pressed too much trying to score more goals, both in regulation and extra time.

Leach, in particular, came in as a sub and turned it over twice trying to force things. She also missed her penalty kick, so I'd pin the loss more on her than anyone else.


It was a great game. I was rooting for Morgan and Japan and got more than I could have hoped for out of each. Call me unpatriotic if you like, but I found it all too easy to root for the Japanese team as the spirited underdogs, and admire Sawa's play. Morgan's goal and assist were awesome even by Men's standards.

It was a bonus that the starter turned her ankle and Alex got to play the entire 2nd half and extra time, and an even bigger bonus that the camera focused in on her (because she was the best looking thing on the pitch) every time there was a pause in the play.

One of the many beautiful things about soccer is that you have to play a complete game for 90 minutes plus and [U]also[/U] ask for a little luck. All I remember about the first half was the US team blasting shots all around the goal with little success. The lack of connecting on goal came back to haunt them. The game never should have gone to PKs but Hope Solo was not to blame nor was any one player. On another day it probably should have been a 4-2 affair. A team of destiny simply met a team with a greater destiny. Japan won on solid play when it was needed and the US made uncharacteristic errors when they could least afford to make errors. That said, congrats to Japan. They were solid in the end. They beat the Germans, Swedes and US in pivotal games and emotion alone doesn't account for that kind of sweeping success....

No skin off anyone's nose. The nation of Japan needed this more than we did. And since it doesn't cost much monetarily or emotionally I say good for the Japanese. The pretty american soccer girls will make money(if they choose) cause that's what pretty american girls do. Winning is marginally relevant.

burritos;532084 said:

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No skin off anyone's nose. The nation of Japan needed this more than we did. And since it doesn't cost much monetarily or emotionally I say good for the Japanese. The pretty american soccer girls will make money(if they choose) cause that's what pretty american girls do. Winning is marginally relevant.

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Orange slices and trophies for everyone!

GB54;532089 said:

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Orange slices and trophies for everyone!

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:rollinglaugh::rollinglaugh::rollinglaugh::rollinglaugh:

GB54;531839 said:

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Yes, because the place to go to for not getting sporting news is a sports message board.

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for women's soccer scores? I was confused and thought the focus here was completely different. My bad.

The point is, a title like, "What an exciting World Cup" is much better than "Japan Wins". One gives the result away, the other does not. I take it you have never not wanted to hear the result of a game you are about to watch.

Fumble
Please note I never stated that Solo faced five kicks from the mark.
I said she did her job in saving one kick. In penalty kicks the
SAVE rate is somewhere near twelve percent. The other failures
are misses by the kicker.
The reason I mentioned five is that on kicks from the mark
each team is given FIVE kicks and whoever scores more goals
at the end of five kicks for each team is the winner. Usually on
Kicks from the mark a keeper faces five different kickers.
There are two exceptions to this. If at the taking
of the five kicks one team has scored more goals
than the other can achieve with their remaining
kicks the team with more goals is declared the
winner without all five kicks being taken.
This is what happened when the Japanese scored
on their fourth attempt. Japan had made three goals
the US one. Even if the US had imade their final
attempt they would still lose so the game was called
at that point.
The other exception is if after five attempts the
teams are tied. At that point the teams will alternate
taking one shot apiece. First team to miss while their
opponent scores loses.

I still think she did a great job during the kicks.

GB
Please look at the first goal again. When Miyama came in she
was running from her left to her right. Solo keeps her proper position faces her and starts
to lean to her left anticipating the right footed shot.
Instead Miyama shoots with her LEFT foot to Solo's right side. This was a spectacular
move by a talented player. Not so much Solo missing as Miyama
making the goal.
On the corner I don't think any keeper makes that save. It was
simply a well designed play for a smaller team against a taller opponent.
Solo was properly positioned for the corner kick. Tangling up the
keeper happens on almost every corner as opponents position
themselves so as to not give the keeper a direct path to the ball.
On the kicks from the mark she saved one shot and got her hands on a second although
she couldn't complete the save. Those are not rudimentary skills considering the speed
and flight of the ball.

Awww, they still got a nice welcome home.

Barr2Dawkins: I'm sorry, it was not my intent to spoil.