Yes, wanna keep beating that dead horse.

There has been very little in the SF papers about the team- not good for generating interest...11 days out.

Moving the home games off-campus and losing games? Yes, those things will hurt ticket sales. Closed practices... friggin' GET OVER IT, ALREADY!

:tedford

Well, they certainly can't help. It's impossible to reliably quantify how much they hurt sales but common sense says that a program that has been floundering needs to make an extra effort to connect with the fanbase and the community instead of becoming more and more insular. Everyone seems to understand that except Jeff Tedford.

When Harbaugh took over at the Furd, he did everything he could to make the team more accessible. They held their spring game at Kezar. They did events with the community. Some of Harbaugh's practices were closed to the public but many weren't and the media was there for most, if not all, of them. They also instituted family friendly pricing in tickets. Given Furd's abysmal attendance, I'm not sure how well it worked but at least they tried.

Everyone says that it's all about winning and losing. I agree. If the team were winning, no one would care about any of this. But the team isn't winning. When it isn't winning, this stuff becomes more important.

As for "getting over it", I am over it. I don't give a rip if most practices are closed to the public (as long as a few are not as they are right now). I do care that the media is getting shut out too. That's ridiculous and no one else does that.

12-1 will do that for you. My point is that sales didn't really go up immediately after moving the spring game. They've gone up because Furd is a national title contender. (I just threw up a little in my mouth.)

I watched a replay of the Oregon Spring practice on ESPNU and wished that one day we would be featured on there. Chip Kelly also had fun with the media acting as a sideline reporter.

One thing open practices will do is attract new fans. Imaging the families that can't afford tickets and want to take kids to see their favorite team.

Up 76% since 2009. Harbaugh was coach in 2009 (and 2008). It's impossible to disentangle how much of the uptick is due to winning (obviously the vast majority) and how much is due to other stuff but the point is that they reached out to their fans. We don't seem to do that. I think we'll see when we see ticket sales when Furd (inevitably) comes down to earth.

Chip Kelly isn't Jeff Tedford. Ditto for Harbaugh. Some personalities do great with open practices and some find it way too much of a distraction. I think the whole "closed practices" whining is idiotic. If and when we look for a new HC, I certainly hope "having open practices" is far, far, far, far, far down on the list of things we look for in candidates.

In the meantime, if you need to watch meaningless football, there's preseason NFL football going on. I hear the Raiders and Niners fans had a bangup time last weekend.

No, losing seasons hurt ticket sales. Nobody cares what goes on in practice.

BeachyBear;549978 said:

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Chip Kelly isn't Jeff Tedford. Ditto for Harbaugh. Some personalities do great with open practices and some find it way too much of a distraction. I think the whole "closed practices" whining is idiotic. If and when we look for a new HC, I certainly hope "having open practices" is far, far, far, far, far down on the list of things we look for in candidates.

In the meantime, if you need to watch meaningless football, there's preseason NFL football going on. I hear the Raiders and Niners fans had a bangup time last weekend.

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Beachy, you're missing the point. I don't care if practices are open or closed to the public. It's shutting out the media that's idiotic. If people are looking for a reason to get excited about a program that appears to be well into its decline, shutting out the media isn't going to help. If they're trying to raise prices for a losing team in the middle of a recession, you might want to try to give someone a reason to get excited in the offseason when we're coming off a terrible season. I think the way they're treating the public is fine. Most practices are closed but a few are open. No issue there. But having Okanes (or McGill for that matter) try to report what they saw in 20 minutes of stretching is idiotic.

Hey fool...yeah you BeachyBear....closed practices issue is not "idiotic"....for reasons that I can see are beyond your comprehension.....although I do agree with you that Tedford is no Kelly or Harbaugh...as their teams are both ranked in the top 10 this year......

Tedford and crew are too busy building and fanning camp fires to generate a lot of smoke to hide all those mirrors that Tedford places around the football field.....AHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAA

No, closing practices has no impact on ticket sales.

The handful of fans that are hardcore enough to watch the practices are going to go to the games regardless, and the PR impact from closed practices is marginal at best. Things like advertising, coaches speaking tours and so forth have a much bigger impact on the program's public profile. Of course, winning and the quality of the product on the field is the #1 factor, but we're looking at the other factors and impact of practices ceteris parabis.

ayetee11;549969 said:

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One thing open practices will do is attract new fans. Imaging the families that can't afford tickets and want to take kids to see their favorite team.

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Not really, fans who have never had enough interest in actually seeing Cal games are definitely not going to be interested in going to watch football practices. Only hardcore Cal fans would be interested in watching our guys practice.

"I must count for something!"

Oh contraire friend GB54....I care unless you think I'm still "nobody?"

BeachyBear;549949 said:

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Moving the home games off-campus and losing games? Yes, those things will hurt ticket sales. Closed practices... friggin' GET OVER IT, ALREADY!

:tedford

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Just Win Baby!

Open/closed practices don't matter one bit.

drunkoski;550019 said:

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huge difference between complete open practices and banning media. lack of media coverage means lack of buzz which certainly would have a negative effect on ticket sales. people seem to forget how high of % of our fans are of the bandwaggon variety.

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But nobody jumps on a bandwagon unless the team starts to win consistently.

We've been hearing a lot of theories about why ticket sales are down-ATO, venues, price of tickets, now practices. None of this would matter too much if we were winning.

Stanford's ticket sales went from 17,000 to 26,000 this year. Our ticket sales are at 26,000 and hope to match last year's total of 34,000-good luck with that. Stanford is reaping the success of a BCS year and top ten pre season hype (and no it's not practice). Our program has only self generated buzz.

It's about winning and the economics of winning which will drive this program from here on out.

Friend BearLineman what you say may be all to true, especially for the players, but I've found one can learn something about the team as a whole and about the coaching....which a real issue for me at this time....So, I say "Yes!"

Stanford also has closed practices - so you are wrong!!!!

ticket sales are up for the Furd because they had a great year in 2010 and expectation are good for this year. Also - tickets sales were so anemic on the farm for so long, that they had nowhere to go but up.

GB54;550029 said:

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We've been hearing a lot of theories about why ticket sales are down-ATO, venues, price of tickets, now practices. None of this would matter too much if we were winning.

Stanford's ticket sales went from 17,000 to 26,000 this year. Our ticket sales are at 26,000 and hope to match last year's total of 34,000-good luck with that. Stanford is reaping the success of a BCS year and top ten pre season hype (and no it's not practice). Our program has only self generated buzz.

It's about winning and the economics of winning which will drive this program from here on out.

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Would open practices generate more/better media coverage of the football program? Would more/better coverage of the football program improve ticket sales?

I would say both are marginal factors. If practices were open, you'd maybe get slightly more coverage from the Chronicle. Okanes is covering Cal now, and would continue to cover them regardless, as the CoCo Times considers Cal a home team. I get his coverage via the Merc, along with Wilner's coverage of Stanford.

Also, the coverage might be more positive if Tedford were more cooperative, although my impression is the Cal football beat would still be considered a backwater. (One of the reasons I like Faraudo is, unlike Okanes, I get the impression he actually likes covering college hoop.)

I don't know how much difference any of this would make to ticket sales. The reality is, you're talking about attracting the sports fan who is not a Cal alumnus, or a college football aficionado. What attracts them is winning, especially if both the 49ers and Raiders stink. But it has to be a lot of winning, as Stanford's lackluster attendance the last two years, despite its performance, attests.

You confuse me friend BearLineman where is this "enough scrutiny" come from that you allude to, if practices are turely closed? I would think the players are too sensitive if they think a "few hardcore fans" keep the players from acting as a team, or maybe the coaches aren't that good?

RealDrew2;550034 said:

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Stanford also has closed practices - so you are wrong!!!!

ticket sales are up for the Furd because they had a great year in 2010 and expectation are good for this year. Also - tickets sales were so anemic on the farm for so long, that they had nowhere to go but up.

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Ok, on further review it does appear that Furd has some media restrictions on some of their practices too. That doesn't change the fact that they've been far more media and fan friendly than we have.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say. If you're arguing that winning and losing is the primary driver of ticket sales, then I don't think anyone would disagree with you. If you're trying to say that none of this stuff matters, then I don't agree. I think you need to make the fans feel appreciated with things that they want like a true spring game. I think that you want to build a buzz around a team that hasn't generated one with its record by being more media friendly rather than closing things off. I think we have to more outreach to fans and not less. The practice issue is not that significant in the scheme of things but that doesn't mean that it doesn't matter at all. Little things count. In another thread, a loyal donor and ESP holder told a story about how he had to pay $10 to reprint tickets and that soured him a bit. The $10 itself was insignificant but little things like that go to building the general perception of the program. The program needs to do better, mostly on the field but also off of it.

That wasn't the question......Cal ain'rt a'winnin'.....and ain't a'havin' open practices....to not much anyone.....practices do matter to some....especially to those that have seen a lot of college football over the years.....

drunkoski;550052 said:

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enjoying the fact that people here are actually admitting our results have sucked. will have to bookmark this for later.

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When did anyone say that? Saying that our recent results are not as good as Stanford's is not the same thing.

SmellinRoses;549944 said:

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Yes, wanna keep beating that dead horse.

There has been very little in the SF papers about the team- not good for generating interest...11 days out.

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From our (CU's) perspective I would assert that it does.

Hawkins was a total cock about practices, even when he opened them it was at odd-ball times and totally focused on him. A prefect example is that we had pushing 1k fans at a scrimmage this year. It was held on a Saturday at noon and the full practice facility was open.

Last year under haLk it was at 9.30am on a Wednesday and most of the facility was closed except for the far access gate. Not surprisingly attendance sucked.

This year we had 18 open practices allowing our sites as well as the main CU blog to cover practices on an in depth level and carry those reports on our sites. For us (allbuffs) this was worth an average increase of 500 visitors per day above normal to the site for each practice report. With those threads garnering 4,000-5,000 views a piece. That sort of interest has to translate into increased media coverage and increased fan interaction. Which you'd likely assume leads to increased sales.

I knew I liked you twister..so if Cal starts to beat the bejesus out of the Buffs, you can change at halftime if you want and becaome a bear fan and my cyber-friend.

drunkoski;550077 said:

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if our attendance is dropping SOLEY because of declining results wouldn't that imply that the results aren't too solid?

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Yes, but there is also a difference between "worse than before" and "sucked".

BearLineman;550097 said:

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Scrutiny...every play on Saturday gets broken down here and in the media. You could say if we were to observe practice we could compare game day with practices. I don't think we need to see that. There are guys who suck in practice but for some reason they excel on game day. Wins and losses tell me if practice is paying off. Lately...sure looks like it hasn't. My point, let them work out the kinks during the week hoping they do...and hoping we play well enough to get a "W".

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But 95%-99% of the analyses here and in the media is just BS and not worth the money paid for it [which is <$0].

....as some posters posts are also BS....and true its "not worth the money paid for it"....

Closed practices don't hurt ticket sales. Win-loss records do.

UCLA opens most of their practices. Think the Rose Bowl will be filled to the brim this season?

BeachyBear;549978 said:

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Chip Kelly isn't Jeff Tedford. Ditto for Harbaugh. Some personalities do great with open practices and some find it way too much of a distraction. I think the whole "closed practices" whining is idiotic. If and when we look for a new HC, I certainly hope "having open practices" is far, far, far, far, far down on the list of things we look for in candidates.

In the meantime, if you need to watch meaningless football, there's preseason NFL football going on. I hear the Raiders and Niners fans had a bangup time last weekend.

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Played at the same stadium as the CAL vs FSO St. game. Screw closed or open practices. Give me a venue which is safe, easy to get to and doesn't make you take out a second on your home to cover a ticket & parking.

I can agree with your matter-of-fact deduction, but the question wasn't posed as an absolute. I still contend that closed practices does, in some amount, hurt ticket sales....for example, can you image the free PR Cal could've gotten from those "hardcore Bear fans" (you know the ones that actually go to practices) if they could've attended practices and said something like, "Holy smokes, Cal is going to be a monster and surprise everyone this year!" This is assuming, of course, that Tedford is anywhere near capable of bringing such off....but if he knew he couldn't, then I could see the need for closed practices to both the fans and to a certain extent especially the media......AHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAA....Oh, there are some homers here who will state the aforementioned in any event, but like 68great also matter-of-factly claims, it's nothing but BS!AHAHAHAHAAAAA

LessMilesMoreTedford;550132 said:

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Closed practices don't hurt ticket sales. Win-loss records do.

UCLA opens most of their practices. Think the Rose Bowl will be filled to the brim this season?

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Why does everything have to have a single cause? Again, nobody's arguing that a generally unfriendly attitude toward the media and practices are as important as wins and losses. We're arguing that there could be some negative impact on the margin.

All of the following are likely impacting ticket sales in some way (although not equally in magnitude):

- Higher prices in the middle of a deep recession.
- Unappealing home schedule.
- Not being in Berkeley and playing in a stadium that isn't well designed for football because it was intended for baseball.
- Team coming off a disappointing season.
- Lack of media buzz coming into this season.

The last one is the one that could have possibly been mitigated to some extent by a more acessible program, especially to the media.

People will always show up to support a winner. When you haven't been winning lately and there isn't a huge expectation that things are about to turn around, you have to do what you can to entice fans. This program has failed to do that and now is dealing with the consequences.

Exactly.

Plus national media types (like Ted Miller) can't really say/write much about Cal if practices are closed...which causes him to underrate our team. He's pretty much said as much.

There are a combination of many things causing low ticket sales. No one is arguing that wins/losses are the most important thing. But to suggest that it's the only thing is wins/losses is simplistic and naive.

cal97;550145 said:

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Why does everything have to have a single cause? Again, nobody's arguing that a generally unfriendly attitude toward the media and practices are as important as wins and losses. We're arguing that there could be some negative impact on the margin.

All of the following are likely impacting ticket sales in some way (although not equally in magnitude):

- Higher prices in the middle of a deep recession.
- Unappealing home schedule.
- Not being in Berkeley and playing in a stadium that isn't well designed for football because it was intended for baseball.
- Team coming off a disappointing season.
- Lack of media buzz coming into this season.

The last one is the one that could have possibly been mitigated to some extent by a more acessible program, especially to the media.

People will always show up to support a winner. When you haven't been winning lately and there isn't a huge expectation that things are about to turn around, you have to do what you can to entice fans. This program has failed to do that and now is dealing with the consequences.

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Blueblood;549986 said:

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Hey fool...yeah you BeachyBear....closed practices issue is not "idiotic"....for reasons that I can see are beyond your comprehension.....although I do agree with you that Tedford is no Kelly or Harbaugh...as their teams are both ranked in the top 10 this year......

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Harbaugh's team is the 49rs. And they're not in the "top ten."

Sorry if your shiny lil' self can't go see a practice. I'd suggest you get a life, but at this point I'm certain that is far beyond your capacity.

Just... try not to drool on yourself *too* much.

But nothing in this thread makes any sense out of banning THE MEDIA.

You just give em a few ground rules (no play talk etc.) and for the luv of gawd, let em in and give them food and drink. The more stories the merrier - let them get an idea on someone to write about.

We're coming off the first losing season in eons and we're playing in multiple new venues and we're antagonizing the local press\beat reporters for no reason? Okanes whines every other day about being shut out of practice. How is this good PR for the team?

There is little to no buzz in the City regarding Cal AT&T/Candlestick games.

We should be concerned about losing our home feel advantage.

Makes no sense. What am I missing. Can someone opine on why it is a good idea to ban the media?