We've had 9 different QBs start under the Guru's tenure at Cal.

In descending order of them becoming starters:

Kyle Boller
Reggie Robertson
Aaron Rodgers
Nate Longshore
Joe Ayoob
Steve Levy
Kevin Riley
Brock Mansion
Zach Maynard

I know where I would put Maynard, but just wondering where people would rank Maynard on this list. Is he avg vs these guys? Above avg? Below?

Aaron Rodgers
Nate Longshore (pre injury)
Kyle Boller
Reggie Robertson
Steve Levy
Zach Maynard (assuming he improves, which is not a sure thing)
Kevin Riley
Nate Longshore (post injury)
Joe Ayoob
Brock Mansion

I'd agree with slightly below Levy, and above Riley.

LegoBear;591786 said:

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Aaron Rodgers
Nate Longshore (pre injury)
Kyle Boller
Reggie Robertson
Steve Levy
Zach Maynard (assuming he improves, which is not a sure thing)
Kevin Riley
Nate Longshore (post injury)
Joe Ayoob
Brock Mansion

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I agree, except I'd put Kyle Boller above Nate Longshore (pre injury).

Too. Early. To. Tell.

maxer;591821 said:

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Too. Early. To. Tell.

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This. More upside than most, but frustratingly inconsistent right now.

maxer;591821 said:

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Too. Early. To. Tell.

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Maynard is 22 years old, accuracy has been his weakness since tBuffalo days.

I don't think its too early to say that what we see is what we get, there is no upside here.

maxer;591821 said:

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Too. Early. To. Tell.

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Seriously?

Maynard has started more games at Cal then Brock Mansion, Steve Levy, and Reggie Robertson.

So you're saying you still can't make a judgement on him against those guys?

He is a Junior. He's almost half way through his Junior year. What you see is what you get. He has strengths and weaknesses. Absolutely we can make an evaluation for him against other Cal starting QBs. I expect him to improve, but I certainly don't expect him to morph into Aaron Rodgers. Are you saying that you cannot yet make a judgement on Maynard because you think he might be better than Rodgers?

It's not to early to tell. I suspect that his ranking right now will be very similar to the one that most people will come up with when his career at Cal is over.

I think the reason people have said it is too early to tell is because it seemed like he was getting better each game, until the Oregon game, when the wheels fell off.

So the question is, do we think there is still a progression with a hiccup, or do we think that is the new standard.

I am optimistic that Zach is going to continue to improve, and that it was a case of nerves, and maybe playing hurt, and definitely getting whacked a bit more than he was used to.

Rodgers
Boller
Longshore (pre)
Robertson
Riley
Maynard
Longshore (post)
Levy
Ayoob
Mansion

Rodgers
Longshore (pre)
Boller
Robertson
Riley
Maynard
Longshore (post)
Levy
Ayoob
Mansion

dajo9;591988 said:

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Rodgers
Longshore (pre)
Boller
Robertson
Riley
Maynard
Longshore (post)
Levy
Ayoob
Mansion

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This looks good. I would put a big gap after Rodgers and also before Mansion though.

Rodgers
.
.
.
Longshore (pre)
Boller
Robertson
Riley
Maynard
Longshore (post)
Levy
Ayoob
.
.
Mansion

hanky1;591891 said:

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Seriously?

Maynard has started more games at Cal then Brock Mansion, Steve Levy, and Reggie Robertson.

So you're saying you still can't make a judgement on him against those guys?

He is a Junior. He's almost half way through his Junior year. What you see is what you get. He has strengths and weaknesses. Absolutely we can make an evaluation for him against other Cal starting QBs. I expect him to improve, but I certainly don't expect him to morph into Aaron Rodgers. Are you saying that you cannot yet make a judgement on Maynard because you think he might be better than Rodgers?

It's not to early to tell. I suspect that his ranking right now will be very similar to the one that most people will come up with when his career at Cal is over.

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Robertson started a couple of games in 2001 also. Maynard is better than Mansion.

I don't expect him to morph into Aaron Rodgers, but Rodgers put up worse numbers over his first 5 starts (against arguably tougher competition) and HE morphed into Aaron Rodgers. People really seem to forget how much Rodgers struggled as a starter (turned out to be injury related, but Maynard may have been hurt against Oregon) but here are his cumulative stats over his first five starts:

Rodgers' first 5 starts 2003: 84 of 153 (55% 947 yards 4 TDs 3 INTs

Maynard's first 5 starts 2011: 92 of 179 (51%) 1,291 yards 11 TDs 3 INTs

Rodgers' QB rating over his first 5 Cal starts: 112

Maynard's QB rating over his first 5 Cal starts: 129

Cal's record over Rodgers' first 5 starts? 3-2 and in the one signature win, SC, Robertson came into the game early in the second half with the score tied and the momentum on SC's side so you could say 2-2-1. Wins over Illinois and Arizona, losses to OSU and UCLA.

Again, there is only one Aaron Rodgers, but even HE initially struggled as a starter. People remember 1st quarter SC Rodgers, 2003 Insight Bowl Rodgers, 2004 Rodgers and 2011 Super Bowl Rodgers, they forget all those times that he struggled in 2003 and even struggled with his accuracy.

Sometimes it IS too early to judge.

Golden One;591811 said:

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I agree, except I'd put Kyle Boller above Nate Longshore (pre injury).

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Yeah that's a tough one. Longshore had the better qb rating in 2006 (141.6) but he probably also had more talent around him, Jackson, Lynch, et al vs L Ward and Igber.

LegoBear;592059 said:

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Yeah that's a tough one. Longshore had the better qb rating in 2006 (141.6) but he probably also had more talent around him, Jackson, Lynch, et al vs L Ward and Igber.

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With Boller on the 2006 team we beat Arizona AND SC and go to the Rose Bowl minimum.

LegoBear;592059 said:

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Yeah that's a tough one. Longshore had the better qb rating in 2006 (141.6) but he probably also had more talent around him, Jackson, Lynch, et al vs L Ward and Igber.

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I would say that Longshore had vastly better talent around him.

Running Backs

'02: Joe Igber, Terrell Williams, Chris Manderino
'06: Marshawn Lynch, Justin Forsett, Will Taufoou

Wide Receivers

'02: LaShaun Ward, Jonathan Makonnen, Geoff McArthur
'06: DeSean Jackson, Lavelle Hawkins, Robert Jordan

Tight Ends:

'02: Tom Swoboda, Brandon Hall
'06: Craig Stevens, Eric Beegun

Offensive Line

'02: Chris Murphy, Jon Giesel, Ryan Jones, Scott Tercero, Mark Wilson
'06: Andrew Cameron, Erik Robertson, Alex Mack, Norris Malele, Mike Gibson

That 2002 team will always have a special place in my heart, but the personnel of '06 simply crushes them. Who knows what Boller could have done with the 2006 group.

Setting aside QB rating for a moment, Boller was 2nd Team All Pac-10 in '02 behind a couple of great QBs in Carson Palmer and Jason Gesser who shared the 1st Team distinction that year. Longshore, by comparison, was only named honorable mention in '06, with a couple of comparatively pedestrian QBs, J.D. Booty and Alex Brink given the 1st and 2nd Team awards.

SnoozerBear;591879 said:

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Maynard is 22 years old, accuracy has been his weakness since tBuffalo days.

I don't think its too early to say that what we see is what we get, there is no upside here.

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He played *ONE YEAR* at Buffalo and he's played five games at Cal. Even Luck after one year and five games had questions around him.

Everybody thought Boller was beyond redemption after three years of promise overshadowed by ineptitude. QBs can and do improve when it comes to accuracy and decision-making.

If you compared Maynard circa Buffalo with Cal Maynard, there's been an improvement. No reason to think he won't continue to improve.

The QB is so dependent on his supporting cast - offensive line, play calling, scheme, weapons around him, and what he's being asked to do. Keeping that in mind -

Aaron Rodgers
Kyle Boller (never developed pocket awareness, but has a monster arm)
Reggie Robertson
Zach Maynard (I don't see anyone below him doing better this year)
Kevin Riley (we never should have monkeyed with the throwing motion that carved up Air Force)
Steve Levy (played great when called upon)
Nate Longshore (not the same after ankle injury)
Brock Mansion (could move up with opportunity and better scheme)
Joe Ayoob (he could have made a much better spread option QB)

Break down -

Accuracy,Arm Strength,Vision,Athletic Ability,Clutch

Ayoob, Joe 7,6,8,3,8
Boller, Kyle 4,1,4,7,3
Levy, Steve 3,8,3,6,4
Longshore, Nate 2,7,6,8,6
Mansion, Brock 8,4,7,4,7
Maynard, Zach 5,3,2,1,2
Riley, Kevin 6,5,5,5,5
Rodgers, Aarron 1,2,1,2,1

Is there a way to include tabs in your post??

Aside from leading a win over Stanford, Levy has virtually no body of work as a QB and probably doesn't even deserve consideration. It's too early for a complete assessment of Maynard but, for now, I'd put him in the middle with Riley and Longshore. Rodgers is a clear #1, then Boller/Robertson with Mansion/Ayoob at the bottom. For me, the really sad "what might have been" is Longshore. He was headed for Cal's hall of fame before he went down with injury and, seemingly, couldn't avoid throwing killing interceptions when he came back.

Maybe you're right, but at 22 years old, with a season and a half left in Maynards Cal career, I don't think he will improve much at all, at least not in ways comparable to Boller or Luck. Those players were national recruits with physical tools and skills that Maynard simply don't have. We'll just have to disagree.

pappysghost;592109 said:

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Break down -

Accuracy,Arm Strength,Vision,Athletic Ability,Clutch

Ayoob, Joe 7,6,8,3,8
Boller, Kyle 4,1,4,7,3
Levy, Steve 3,8,3,6,4
Longshore, Nate 2,7,6,8,6
Mansion, Brock 8,4,7,4,7
Maynard, Zach 5,3,2,1,2
Riley, Kevin 6,5,5,5,5
Rodgers, Aarron 1,2,1,2,1

Is there a way to include tabs in your post??

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Whoa, you think Zach has the third strongest arm in that group? I think Zach has a fairly pedestrian Pac-12 arm, and would rate him clearly behind Riley, Mansion and Longshore, and possibly behind Ayoob as well.

I also think you've very badly misjudged Boller's athleticism. Boller really crushed the athletics drills at the combine. He ran a 4.61, posted a 35.5" vertical and posted excellent scores in other speed and agility tests. At 6'3, 234# that's really terrific athleticism. For comparison, Rodgers, who you've rated #2 out of the 8 in athletic ability, ran a 4.71, jumped a 34.5" vertical while weighing in at 11 lbs less than Boller. Boller blows Ayoob away in almost every measurable athletic test as well.

Ultimately, I don't think that a simple ordering system gives an useful impression of the eight quarterbacks. I think many of them are very closely grouped in several categories, but the nature of the ordered system can make one player appear greatly superior to another in a category while in actuality only possessing a slight edge.

I would use different categories as well, but just going with the ones you've supplied, I'd rate them as such (Longshore is rated pre-injury):

Quarterback Accuracy Arm Strength Vision Athleticism Clutch GPA

Boller B A+ B A+ B 3.52
Robertson A- B- A- B A 3.42
Rodgers A+ A A A- A 4.00
Longshore A A- A C B 3.34
Ayoob C- B+ C+ B+ C- 2.46
Levy B C+ B B- B+ 2.86
Riley B+ A- B B- B+ 3.20
Mansion C A- C B+ D 2.40
Maynard B- B C+ A- A- 3.08

59bear;592141 said:

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Aside from leading a win over Stanford, Levy has virtually no body of work as a QB and probably doesn't even deserve consideration.

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Levy was also the QB for the LV Bowl in '05 vs. BYU. I agree, it's not a large body of work to judge a QB on for attributes like clutch, but it gives you a good idea of his physical attributes.

59bear;592141 said:

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Aside from leading a win over Stanford, Levy has virtually no body of work as a QB and probably doesn't even deserve consideration. It's too early for a complete assessment of Maynard but, for now, I'd put him in the middle with Riley and Longshore. Rodgers is a clear #1, then Boller/Robertson with Mansion/Ayoob at the bottom. For me, the really sad "what might have been" is Longshore. He was headed for Cal's hall of fame before he went down with injury and, seemingly, couldn't avoid throwing killing interceptions when he came back.

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I agree overall, but a couple quibbles: Levy had the Vegas Bowl against BYU (still not much) and Longshore had an issue with interceptions before the injury too. He threw 13 interception in 2006, same as he did in 2007. Three interceptions in that critical 2006 Arizona game, including the 4th quarter pick six that gave them the lead/win. Followed that up with two interceptions the following week in the loss to SC with the Rose Bowl (again, knowingly this time) on the line.

Still, that was Longshore's first year as a starter. He bounced back from the Tennessee disaster and had to deal with Dunbar's "spread elements" which really did not put him or the talent on that team in the best position to make plays (which may have contributed to him throwing those picks). He did look better to start 2007, before the injury.

I think it is too early to place Maynard.

its a dead heat between post injury Longshanks and Maynard.. both suck

Nice combine numbers. I see Boller has good athletic ability, but wow, he doesn't use it effectively at all so I think he probably deserves to stay at 7. My impression is Maynard has a pretty strong arm, but I could be wrong. What key category am I missing?

pappysghost;592942 said:

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Nice combine numbers. I see Boller has good athletic ability, but wow, he doesn't use it effectively at all so I think he probably deserves to stay at 7. My impression is Maynard has a pretty strong arm, but I could be wrong. What key category am I missing?

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So Boller is a better athlete in almost every quantifiable way than all of the other seven QBs on the list, but still stays at #7 in "athletic ability"? Based on...what?

Just for the memories:



About other categories, just for the major ones how about Decision Making? Pre-Snap Management? Touch? Pocket-Presence? Improvisation?

hanky1;591891 said:

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Seriously?

Maynard has started more games at Cal then Brock Mansion, Steve Levy, and Reggie Robertson....

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Yes, but Mansion, Levy, and Robertson had the benefit of one or more spring practices before starting.

SnoozerBear;592173 said:

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Maybe you're right, but at 22 years old, with a season and a half left in Maynards Cal career, I don't think he will improve much at all, at least not in ways comparable to Boller or Luck. Those players were national recruits with physical tools and skills that Maynard simply don't have. We'll just have to disagree.

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Boller improved significantly between his junior and senior years in large part due to the benefit of having spring practice with Tedford. Years ago, Steve Bartkowski (who had no sense of touch as sophomore or junior) made great strides before his senior year. It is too early to count out Maynard based on five starts in five different stadiums.

GoBears58;592874 said:

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its a dead heat between post injury Longshanks and Maynard.. both suck

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Really? Maynard is significantly more mobile. (Indeed, he may be Cal's best running QB of all time and Longshore may be one of the most immobile.) Perhaps more importantly, Maynard hasn't thrown a single 4th quarter (game killing) interception or a single pick-6. He threw no interceptions last week in what may have been the worst game of his career. When he does throw a pick he doesn't hang his head or beat himself up but is able to shake it off and do well in the following series.

In what ways is post-injury Longshore better than Maynard?

southseasbear;592999 said:

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Really? Maynard is significantly more mobile. (Indeed, he may be Cal's best running QB of all time and Longshore may be one of the most immobile.)

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Only in Tedford's system we have a mobile QB like that with negative rushing yds over the last 4 games.

southseasbear;592999 said:

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Really? Maynard is significantly more mobile. (Indeed, he may be Cal's best running QB of all time and Longshore may be one of the most immobile.) Perhaps more importantly, Maynard hasn't thrown a single 4th quarter (game killing) interception or a single pick-6. He threw no interceptions last week in what may have been the worst game of his career. When he does throw a pick he doesn't hang his head or beat himself up but is able to shake it off and do well in the following series.

In what ways is post-injury Longshore better than Maynard?

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I don't want to debate post-injury Longshore vs Maynard but I will say that some people really put too much value on mobility. Some mobile quarterbacks are good and some are bad and vice-versa. Longshore was one of our best quarterbacks at avoiding sacks because he made quick reads and delivered the ball. I bet he will be a head coach someday. Compare his number of sacks in 2008 to Kevin Riley and you will see that Longshore had far fewer sacks per attempt than more mobile Riley behind the same offensive line. Unfortunately for Longshore, after his injury, the ball didn't always go where he wanted it to go. But we will be lucky if he brings his knowledge of the field back to Cal in a coaching aspect someday especially considering the poor treatment he received from so many of the fans.

southseasbear;592999 said:

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Yes, but Mansion, Levy, and Robertson had the benefit of one or more spring practices before starting.

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I don't understand, southseasbear. Are you saying Maynard wasn't in spring practice? He won the job during spring this year. I don't understand what you're saying.

...I suggest that the QB competition be wide open next spring that's for sure!

KevBear;593034 said:

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I don't understand, southseasbear. Are you saying Maynard wasn't in spring practice? He won the job during spring this year. I don't understand what you're saying.

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Did Maynard win the job during Spring practice?....I thought this was decided early in the Fall practice season....

dajo9;593011 said:

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I don't want to debate post-injury Longshore vs Maynard but I will say that some people really put too much value on mobility. Some mobile quarterbacks are good and some are bad and vice-versa. Longshore was one of our best quarterbacks at avoiding sacks because he made quick reads and delivered the ball. I bet he will be a head coach someday. Compare his number of sacks in 2008 to Kevin Riley and you will see that Longshore had far fewer sacks per attempt than more mobile Riley behind the same offensive line. Unfortunately for Longshore, after his injury, the ball didn't always go where he wanted it to go. But we will be lucky if he brings his knowledge of the field back to Cal in a coaching aspect someday especially considering the poor treatment he received from so many of the fans.

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I don't remember, was Longshore booed in 2007 (maybe the Sc game after one of the interceptions or fumbles?)? I am pretty sure Ayoob, Riley and Mansion were at one time (though it may have been directed at the coaches...). I thought Longshore at least was treated pretty well by the fans, but I may have blanked that out. Hope I never hear cal fans booing a player again.

calumnus;593078 said:

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I don't remember, was Longshore booed in 2007 (maybe the Sc game after one of the interceptions or fumbles?)? I am pretty sure Ayoob, Riley and Mansion were at one time (though it may have been directed at the coaches...). I thought Longshore at least was treated pretty well by the fans, but I may have blanked that out. Hope I never hear cal fans booing a player again.

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Yes, Longshore was booed

Cal_Fan2;593052 said:

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Did Maynard win the job during Spring practice?....I thought this was decided early in the Fall practice season....

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He was declared the starter immediately after spring ball. Based on quotes from JT at the time, it sounded as though his rational was to pick a QB immediately after spring so that the team could have a QB to rally around during private summer workouts.