<blockquote><div class="name-said">AuUrsinae;672691 said:</div><hr>Let me ask you guys something.<br /><br />Name the top 10 prog's in the country and what do they have in common?.<br /><br />Have they been implicated in the past to scandals and sanctions? Go through the list.<br /><br />What does this tell you?. Common sense. Most successful prog's cheat in one way or another. They do it blatantly or in a clandestine way. If you dont believe this, you are being naive or are not in the know.<br /><br />And given what Tosh has accomplished over the past few yrs, if you think there in no chance some shenanigans have taken place, you are being naive.<br /><br />Cal heads to explode...3...2...1...:rollinglaugh:<hr></blockquote><br />Bearinsider Mob outside your house in 5, 4, 3...

<blockquote><div class="name-said">AuUrsinae;672691 said:</div><hr>Let me ask you guys something.<br /><br />Name the top 10 prog's in the country and what do they have in common?.<br /><br />Have they been implicated in the past to scandals and sanctions? Go through the list.<br /><br />What does this tell you?. Common sense. Most successful prog's cheat in one way or another. They do it blatantly or in a clandestine way. If you dont believe this, you are being naive or are not in the know.<br /><br />And given what Tosh has accomplished over the past few yrs, if you think there in no chance some shenanigans have taken place, you are being naive.<br /><br />Cal heads to explode...3...2...1...:rollinglaugh:<hr></blockquote><br /><br />Go away, Quacker troll unless you want to change your name and stop pretending you are a Cal fan. Than you can be an honest troll asshat, which is fine by me.

<blockquote><div class="name-said">dupdadee;672221 said:</div><hr>Chip Kelly will no doubt deal only with cash this time around.<hr></blockquote><br /><br />yup, this is now a cash business.<br /><br />sincerely,<br /><br />Papa Newton

<blockquote><div class="name-said">grrrrah;672867 said:</div><hr>Go away, Quacker troll unless you want to change your name and stop pretending you are a Cal fan. Than you can be an honest troll asshat, which is fine by me.<hr></blockquote><br /><br />this is the same arsehole, Grantduck on fV sports... pissed that we are going to Tosh them back down to the Belotti days.

<blockquote><div class="name-said">BowDowntoWashington;672302 said:</div><hr>I find it to be quite humorous that whenever I post, you seem to pop up with the same fast food line.<hr></blockquote><br /><br />and it is still funny....:p<br /><br /><br />Sark, 18-17<br /><br />without inheriting Polk, 10-25

Love the logic that when you're caught cheating it's OK because everyone cheats. And if you have any success recruiting it must be because you're cheating. <br /><br />Is this how you justify what's going on?

<blockquote><div class="name-said">diego;672652 said:</div><hr>I'm not sure what would be exactly wrong with that, but I've not heard this mentioned before. I did a couple google searches and came up empty. Could you help me out with a link? Thanks<hr></blockquote><br /><br />No link, but take it from a fellow Duck that it's true.<br />Lyles basically set agendas for Kelly and Campbell's visits to Texas, and took them school to school introducing them to coaches and kids. But that's actually one of the more reasonable explanations (in my mind) for him being paid. That's a service. It doesn't mean Lyles is himself saying "go to Oregon" or telling Kelly and the rest of the staff that he will get them player X. Is there a conflict of interest problem in what Lyles was doing? Potentially... probably. But again Lyles has said that the coaching staff never behaved as if they were expecting him to help convince kids where to go to school, he went out of his way to make that point. And he has maintained all along that he never made the choice for these kids.

<blockquote><div class="name-said">RaphaelAglietti;672423 said:</div><hr>If Baron Flenory is involved the do not want he's a walking death penalty for any school getting involved. <br /><br />He's akin to the AAU bag men.<hr></blockquote><br /><br />Flenory runs a popular 7 on 7 tournament that dozens of top prospects participated in this year. He is probably facebook friends with Treggs, Payton, and the rest of the 1921 crew. <br /><br />Lyles had a well documented relationship with Seastrunk even before the Yahoo story broke. I can't see how this Thomas and Flenory situation is similar. This seems like grasping at straws by pissed off Oklahoma and Texas fans.

Baron is nothing like Will Lyles and nearly had his career killed by people speculating about him feeding Oregon recruits. Thompson has been unsure of his commit to Texas for months and Harris's coach at Oklahoma was forced out to give Mike Stoops a job. This is not exactly a surprising thing although last I checked the 3rd player (the LB) was not visiting and was still committed to his school.

<blockquote><div class="name-said">CanadianDuck;673241 said:</div><hr><i><b>Baron is nothing like Will Lyles </b></i>and nearly had his career killed by people speculating about him feeding Oregon recruits. Thompson has been unsure of his commit to Texas for months and Harris's coach at Oklahoma was forced out to give Mike Stoops a job. This is not exactly a surprising thing although last I checked the 3rd player (the LB) was not visiting and was still committed to his school.<hr></blockquote><br /><br />So you agree that Willie Lyles had an improper relationship with Oregon?

<blockquote><div class="name-said">DrDanger;673247 said:</div><hr>So you agree that Willie Lyles had an improper relationship with Oregon?<hr></blockquote><br /><br />I have no idea what the relationship is and will wait till what the NCAA tells me. It seems fishy, but the local media who started everything has always hated Oregon so I will just wait for the ultimate ruling before I make my decision on whether to be happy or kick a puppy.<br /><br />Baron is not a liar like Will and truthfully I have no idea how his name ended up getting dragged through the mud with Lyles. Sure he played for Chip Kelly, but he has never tried to push kids in one direction or the other.

<blockquote><div class="name-said">drunkoski;673263 said:</div><hr>ah yes the old "the media hates my school" excuse.<hr></blockquote>Honestly, the local media <i>does</i> hate Oregon... or at least Chipper. Doesn't mean they're not right.

<blockquote><div class="name-said">elpbear;673291 said:</div><hr>Honestly, the local media <i>does</i> hate Oregon... or at least Chipper. <hr></blockquote><br /><br />I don't believe that either of these things are true.<br /><br />Also, the local media didn't start the Lyles thing.

<blockquote><div class="name-said">drunkoski;673263 said:</div><hr>ah yes the old "the media hates my school" excuse.<hr></blockquote><br /><br />Is that similar to the old "liberal media" excuse? :p

<blockquote><div class="name-said">drunkoski;673301 said:</div><hr>canzano claims he has a great relationship with kelly and he's the one that everyone says hates oregon. we of all people should know that fans think a reporter hates them if they don't tow the programs line and tell the truth. see jon wilner.<hr></blockquote><br /><br />Kelly doesn't take Canzano's **** personal, so they are able to have a reasonable relationship. That aside, Canzano is a stupid clown. Again, I don't buy into the notion that the "media hates us" but he's an idiot.

<blockquote><div class="name-said">drunkoski;673301 said:</div><hr>canzano claims he has a great relationship with kelly and he's the one that everyone says hates oregon. we of all people should know that fans think a reporter hates them if they don't tow the programs line and tell the truth. see jon wilner.<hr></blockquote><br /><br />Chip Kelly basically froze out the local media (canceled his weekly show with Canzano) and only did interviews with out of state and national types this year.

<blockquote><div class="name-said">drunkoski;672949 said:</div><hr>this is oregon's MO. pull the offer once they realize the recruit is going elsewhere. chippy is all class.<hr></blockquote><br /><br />Could provide examples of this or are you going to continue to make things up?

1. Is this just "bitter" OU and UT fans? Well, speaking from Texas side: we lose recruits and recruiting battles every year. We have decommits, etc, and rarely does this kind of thing come up. In fact, the only time in recent memory (prior to this) was the Seastrunk recruitment - and I think that's pretty clear that something was, at best, questionable. It was being discussed that his recruitment was of a palms up variety by a handler - 1-2 yrs before the Yahoo story broke. The other one that was questionable recently was the recruitment of Ahmad Dixon (also a "Lyles" guy - he switched his commitment like 3 times).<br /><br />There may be nothing to this latest smoke on TJ, but it is coming from folks who are connected and who called the Seastrunk thing way before that ever came public - so I'm not willing to write it off as "just a bunch of crybaby/bitter Texas and Oklahoma fans". Are we crybabies? Sure - all the time, but I don't think that's what is behind this as these are the only recruits it is coming up about.<br /><br />2. The Lyles story was "broken" by Yahoo - if what is written on that subject by Yahoo is true, then I don't see how the Oregon/Lyles relationship wasn't a violation - what level I don't know, but it was more than just "fishy". I don't think you can pin it to local media that wants to drag down the ducks. If you haven't, go read the Yahoo piece.

Nearly every school who recruited Seastrunk early ended up dropping him. Lyles was taking him on unofficial visits, which was also public knowledge. There was a lot of smoke. <br /><br />When the Lyles story broke, there was a ton of mud slinging against recruits who had tenuous, at best, relationships with Lyles. Much of which ended up being BS. <br /><br />What is there with TJ and Flenory? What relationship do they even have? The fact that internet detectives are pimping the fact that Flenory and TJ are facebook friends tells me there isn't any real reason to be skeptical at this point.

<blockquote><div class="name-said">surewest;673446 said:</div><hr>Nearly every school who recruited Seastrunk early ended up dropping him. Lyles was taking him on unofficial visits, which was also public knowledge. There was a lot of smoke. <br /><br />When the Lyles story broke, there was a ton of mud slinging against recruits that had tenuous, at best, relationships with Lyles. Much of which ended up being BS. <br /><br />What is there with TJ and Flenory? What relationship do they even have? The fact that internet detectives are pimping the fact that Flenory and TJ are facebook friends tells me there isn't any real reason to be skeptical at this point.<hr></blockquote><br /><br />They went after Flenory before Lyles and found absolutely nothing which is why you saw no additional stories about Baron whereas the Will Lyle's had a ton more smoke and hence all the follow up.

<blockquote><div class="name-said">BayAreaHorn;673435 said:</div><hr>1. Is this just "bitter" OU and UT fans? Well, speaking from Texas side: we lose recruits and recruiting battles every year. We have decommits, etc, and rarely does this kind of thing come up. In fact, the only time in recent memory (prior to this) was the Seastrunk recruitment - and I think that's pretty clear that something was, at best, questionable. It was being discussed that his recruitment was of a palms up variety by a handler - 1-2 yrs before the Yahoo story broke.<hr></blockquote><br /><br />From an extremely credible source, "palms up" was exactly what happened. By the end of the year, Oregon was essentially the only team still recruiting the kid. But Oregon fan will keep saying that the smoke was overblown and that they were just working in the grey area of the NCAA rulebook. Lots of schools cheat - even Cal has in the past with Bozeman being the clear winner here - its just a matter of whether the NCAA gets them or not. <br /><br />Frankly, the whole Auburn thing is amazing to me, and sets the wrong president that very likely will be invoked as a defense here. If the athlete says he didn't know it was happening, then I guess it's not a violation according to the NCAA unless there is evidence to suggest otherwise, and that's even when the dad <i>admits</i> to seeking cash for the player. This was just a "mentor." <br /><br />The real question is whether the NCAA thinks the $25k was for recruiting materials, or if they think it was just a ruse, and you never really want the NCAA making such distinctions, since they have been fairly unpredictable as of late. Seems like if you pi$$ them off they will be out for blood. Has Oregon been cooperating (serious question)?

<blockquote><div class="name-said">BayAreaHorn;673435 said:</div><hr>1. Is this just "bitter" OU and UT fans? Well, speaking from Texas side: we lose recruits and recruiting battles every year. We have decommits, etc, and rarely does this kind of thing come up. In fact, the only time in recent memory (prior to this) was the Seastrunk recruitment - and I think that's pretty clear that something was, at best, questionable. It was being discussed that his recruitment was of a palms up variety by a handler - 1-2 yrs before the Yahoo story broke. The other one that was questionable recently was the recruitment of Ahmad Dixon (also a "Lyles" guy - he switched his commitment like 3 times).<br /><br />There may be nothing to this latest smoke on TJ, but it is coming from folks who are connected and who called the Seastrunk thing way before that ever came public - so I'm not willing to write it off as "just a bunch of crybaby/bitter Texas and Oklahoma fans". Are we crybabies? Sure - all the time, but I don't think that's what is behind this as these are the only recruits it is coming up about.<br /><br />2. The Lyles story was "broken" by Yahoo - if what is written on that subject by Yahoo is true, then I don't see how the Oregon/Lyles relationship wasn't a violation - what level I don't know, but it was more than just "fishy". I don't think you can pin it to local media that wants to drag down the ducks. If you haven't, go read the Yahoo piece.<hr></blockquote><br /><br /><br />1. I am willing to bet Texas fans wouldn't be raising hell if their team had an offensive pulse and didn't have to watch all the from Texas do well at other schools (Luck, Thomas, James, RG3, Rodgers Brothers). <br /><br />As for the Lache situation, he was going to USC until Pete Carol left and when the Trojans cooled off Oregon was the last man standing so it wasn't like Oregon was in some crazy multi-team competition for the kid and needed something extra to get ahead. Frankly after hearing people who watched him in practice he shouldn't have been a five star. Absolutely no RB fundamentals, had a real hard time running between the tackles, and was constantly behind on picking up the playbook. <br /><br />2. The two yahoo authors who went through all the evidence and wrote the stories flat out said that don't know if a violation occurred due to vagueness of the NCAA bylaws and the timing involved

<blockquote><div class="name-said">Vandalus;673503 said:</div><hr><br />The real question is whether the NCAA thinks the $25k was for recruiting materials, or if they think it was just a ruse, and you never really want the NCAA making such distinctions, since they have been fairly unpredictable as of late. Seems like if you pi$$ them off they will be out for blood. Has Oregon been cooperating (serious question)?<hr></blockquote><br />Key point here. As I see it, the case, in large part, comes down to what Kelly told the NCAA. If he lied to them Oregon will get drilled. If he was forthcoming, Oregon will get hit OSU style... touched, but not really hurt long term.

<blockquote><div class="name-said">Vandalus;673503 said:</div><hr>From an extremely credible source, "palms up" was exactly what happened. By the end of the year, Oregon was essentially the only team still recruiting the kid. But Oregon fan will keep saying that the smoke was overblown and that they were just working in the grey area of the NCAA rulebook. Lots of schools cheat - even Cal has in the past with Bozeman being the clear winner here - its just a matter of whether the NCAA gets them or not. <br /><br />Frankly, the whole Auburn thing is amazing to me, and sets the wrong president that very likely will be invoked as a defense here. If the athlete says he didn't know it was happening, then I guess it's not a violation according to the NCAA unless there is evidence to suggest otherwise, and that's even when the dad <i>admits</i> to seeking cash for the player. This was just a "mentor." <br /><br />The real question is whether the NCAA thinks the $25k was for recruiting materials, or if they think it was just a ruse, and you never really want the NCAA making such distinctions, since they have been fairly unpredictable as of late. Seems like if you pi$$ them off they will be out for blood. Has Oregon been cooperating (serious question)?<hr></blockquote><br /><br />Oregon has been working with the NCAA and Glazier to help rewrite various section of the Bylaws, so yes they have been more than cooperative

<blockquote><div class="name-said">alarsuel;673517 said:</div><hr>Key point here. As I see it, the case, in large part, comes down to what Kelly told the NCAA. If he lied to them Oregon will get drilled. If he was forthcoming, Oregon will get hit OSU style... touched, but not really hurt long term.<hr></blockquote><br /><br />TOSU's punishment had as much to do with lying to the NCAA as much as the violations themselves so I am not sure why the punishments would be equal if Chip Kelly was truthful from the beginning.

<blockquote><div class="name-said">ppilot;673530 said:</div><hr>TOSU's punishment had as much to do with lying to the NCAA as much as the violations themselves so I am not sure why the punishments would be equal if Chip Kelly was truthful from the beginning.<hr></blockquote><br /><br />OSU lessened their punishment by putting it at the feet of Tressel and telling him to kick rocks. If OSU had kept Treesel they would have gotten SC level of sanctions. What I mean is that in my opinion, Oregon was, at best a little too on the black side of grey area and the NCAA will decide to slap them or crush them based on Kelly's truthfulness or lack thereof. Oregon has kept Kelly thus far so either they are comfortable with what he told the NCAA or aren't paying attention to the way the game is played.

<blockquote><div class="name-said">ppilot;673515 said:</div><hr>1. I am willing to bet Texas fans wouldn't be raising hell if their team had an offensive pulse and didn't have to watch all the from Texas do well at other schools (Luck, Thomas, James, RG3, Rodgers Brothers). <br /><br />As for the Lache situation, he was going to USC until Pete Carol left and when the Trojans cooled off Oregon was the last man standing so it wasn't like Oregon was in some crazy multi-team competition for the kid and needed something extra to get ahead. Frankly after hearing people who watched him in practice he shouldn't have been a five star. Absolutely no RB fundamentals, had a real hard time running between the tackles, and was constantly behind on picking up the playbook. <br /><br />2. The two yahoo authors who went through all the evidence and wrote the stories flat out said that don't know if a violation occurred due to vagueness of the NCAA bylaws and the timing involved<hr></blockquote><br /><br />1. I obviously can't speak for all Texas fans. However, the hoopla/stink over Seastrunk occurred back right after Texas won the 2008 Fiesta Bowl (and finished #3) and then the next year played Alabama for the MNC - yet they were raising a stink back then. So I'm not sure that's the case. Are we bummed about our last 2 years? Sure - but it's not like we're several years removed from a great run (2004-2009). I think the thing that is concerning to Texas fans is if college football recruiting starts taking on a college basketball/AAU type flavor and it appears that could be the case.<br /><br />I'm not saying Chip Kelly is the Calipari of football, but it appears he's much more willing (at a minimum) to push the boundaries.<br /><br />2. I'm pretty sure the Yahoo article specifically stated that if what they reported is true then it would be a violation by the definition of a booster. But that's my recollection.

<blockquote><div class="name-said">BayAreaHorn;673543 said:</div><hr>1. I obviously can't speak for all Texas fans. However, the hoopla/stink over Seastrunk occurred back right after Texas won the 2008 Fiesta Bowl (and finished #3) and then the next year played Alabama for the MNC - yet they were raising a stink back then. So I'm not sure that's the case. Are we bummed about our last 2 years? Sure - but it's not like we're several years removed from a great run (2004-2009). I think the thing that is concerning to Texas fans is if college football recruiting starts taking on a college basketball/AAU type flavor and it appears that could be the case.<br /><br />I'm not saying Chip Kelly is the Calipari of football, but it appears he's much more willing (at a minimum) to push the boundaries.<br /><br />2. I'm pretty sure the Yahoo article specifically stated that if what they reported is true then it would be a violation by the definition of a booster. But that's my recollection.<hr></blockquote><br /><br /><br />1. Having checked out a couple different LH online communities lately I am going to say that your laissez faire approach is not shared by the majority of your fan base. <br /><br />2. Listen to any interview both authors did regarding the Lyles situation, neither one was willing make that statement. They also made the point we won't hear Oregon's side of the situation until the NCAA makes their decision.

<blockquote><div class="name-said">ppilot;673562 said:</div><hr>1. Having checked out a couple different LH online communities lately I am going to say that your laissez faire approach is not shared by the majority of your fan base. <br /><br />2. Listen to any interview both authors did regarding the Lyles situation, neither one was willing make that statement. They also made the point we won't hear Oregon's side of the situation until the NCAA makes their decision.<hr></blockquote><br /><br />1. I wasn't saying the fan base is relaxed about the last 2 years (nor am I). I'm saying I don't think that is driving posters with connections to the program to make up a bunch of noise about questionable recruiting activities. We've had plenty of recent success, so a couple bad years aren't going to make posters go mentally insane (well, maybe some) and start spraying allegations. Similar allegations were made on Seastrunk during a period of great success for the program (and those allegations were clearly well founded).<br /><br />2. Go read the Yahoo article: several times they refer to Oregon/Lyles actions and interactions "may" or "could" be considered NCAA violations. Of course they can't say that the activities of Oregon/Lyles are violations for sure because that is up to the NCAA to decide. The whole point (and intrigue) is that the activities dug up by Yahoo point to NCAA violations - otherwise why the hub-bub (is that the word?)? That Yahoo article is not a pretty read if you're an Oregon fan.