there is a direct correlation between hs gpas and student athletes graduating from cal after 4-5 years (and yes i'm aware and proud of the exceptions like marshawn who had a 3.00 gpa at cal after a near 2.00 hs gpa at oakland tech...if a recruit with a low hs gpa is willing to listen to their cal academic advisors and follow the academic gameplan there is no doubt that they can succeed at cal)

there is also a direct correlation also between players staying eligible (and ultimately graduating) and the bears' performance on the field

so what is the worst recruiting targeted recruiting class by position probably ever perpetuated by a cal football coach?

my award goes hands down to coach daft in 2010

who did coach daft (who is a hardworking and honest family man but clueless with respects to recruiting) try to sign that year?

roll out the blue carpet:

tevin carter-2.5 hs gpa and played against lousy competition...struggled with school and working hard on the field...bad attitude resulted in a flare up on the field and he was gone

terrence montgomery-2.6 hs gpa...kcal9 described him best..."short and slow"...flunked out of school

davon dunn-under 3.00 hs gpa...no showed cal practices during the holiday bowl due to an unplanned baby...cal decommit now a backup cb at fresno state

josh harper-2.7 hs gpa...considered a good kid by coach sam he was never comfortable in berkeley (urban environment) and is working to become a starter at fresno state after being a strong cal lean at one point

kaelin clay-2.8 hs gpa...good kid considered long on potential but low on actual production...now at a jc

coleman edmond-jc transfer good student caught one pass as a jr and zero as a sr

and no daft was not responsible for ka's arrival recruitment

the good news is that jt has learned from this mistake as evidenced by the elite high calibre student athletes at wr for 2012 led by ringleader treggs

go beers

Good research here. I was thinking about this the other day and how we managed to have 2 schollied receivers on the team in spring when it seems like you would bring in 2 WRs a year. You left Kaelin Clay off the list who I think is trying to get back, but I haven't heard either way how its looking. Markish Jones was the only one from 2009, and I don't think he played.

Not sure how Chandler is at recruiting, but it doesn't sound like Kiesau was a huge recruiter either since most of our WRs stuck and we brought in Lawler. It does seem like WRs are cut from a different cloth, so to speak.

Guess we'll have some information about Chandler soon. Would love to hear some recruits mentioning him in interviews.

Shocky1 - Absolutely on the money. Daft was a disasterous hire. Fine family man, terrible recruiter and poor wr coach. The trouble with bad hires is that JT can't be ruthless and get rid of them promptly.

Nice guys always finish last. The recruiting and retention of WRs the past few years has been brutal and said before on these boards. Without Keenan, we'd be really up the creek. If the incoming freshmen don't step up and adjust quickly to college life away from home and Division 1 football, we will be woefully thin this fall. Having to rely on unknowns is a bit scary to contemplate no matter how highly touted they were in high school.

shocky, davon dunn and josh harper never attended cal. they decomitted midway through the process. i dont know where you are getting that information

gobears725;729446 said:

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shocky, davon dunn and josh harper never attended cal. they decomitted midway through the process. i dont know where you are getting that information

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i think his point is that we were recruiting those players. had they not decommitted, we would've taken them that season.

Do you remember the moaning and groaning on the Board when these two de-committed at about the same time? Whoa is me, the sky is falling. Actually, we're fortunate that they decided to do what they did at the time.

Some recruits are simply not destined to attend this university. We should be thankful in some cases. I believe we're lucky that Payton wound up at UCLA and Shittu at Stanford. They both seemed like head-cases. It may come back to haunt us or it may not, but on the surface things worked out for the best.

6bear6;729453 said:

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Do you remember the moaning and groaning on the Board when these two de-committed at about the same time? Whoa is me, the sky is falling. Actually, we're fortunate that they decided to do what they did at the time.

Some recruits are simply not destined to attend this university. We should be thankful in some cases. I believe we're lucky that Payton wound up at UCLA and Shittu at Stanford. They both seemed like head-cases. It may come back to haunt us or it may not, but on the surface things worked out for the best.

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Other than the fact that he's no longer a WR, how did we dodge a bullet by not getting Davon Dunn?

TorBear;729461 said:

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Other than the fact that he's no longer a WR, how did we dodge a bullet by not getting Davon Dunn?

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tor, please explain how a potential backup cb with family time issue challenges would have helped the bears wr production in 2012 and beyond?

did you know that dunn caught only 22 passes as a hs senior?

do you think coach daft should have targeted a kid with a low hs gpa, family time challenges and below average hs wr production?

TorBear;729461 said:

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Other than the fact that he's no longer a WR, how did we dodge a bullet by not getting Davon Dunn?

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im guessing by the fact that he had an unplanned child and is now a backup CB at FSU.

6bear6;729453 said:

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Do you remember the moaning and groaning on the Board when these two de-committed at about the same time? Whoa is me, the sky is falling. Actually, we're fortunate that they decided to do what they did at the time.

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Fortunate? Terrence Montgomery and Kaelin Clay where the products of Dunn and Harper decommiting. While both Dunn and Harper are still enrolled, Montgomery and Clay have each left school.

calBlitz;729477 said:

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Fortunate? Terrence Montgomery and Kaelin Clay where the products of Dunn and Harper decommiting. While both Dunn and Harper are still enrolled, Montgomery and Clay have each left school.

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if i could choose between either having 2 players (one a backup CB, one a decent WR on a "decent" FSU team) or not having 3 players (Carter, Montgomery, Clay), i'd still choose the latter. at least the extra 3 schollies will help down the line.

many Cal fans were bitter and disappointed when we first got Harper and Dunn's commitments, and while they may have been harsh, they weren't wrong in second-guessing their abilities.

luckily, we stocked up on WR this year while it was talent-heavy. this is better IMO than taking 1-2 kids who might not pan out or start.

how is this all on Daft if the coaches do geographical recruiting? Or, did I miss it-are they all from the same area?

I don't know if Daft was responsible for a specific region (he probably split it with others), but those wr's are from socal.

Sure sums up my opinion on how Daft impacted the program.

mbBear;729500 said:

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how is this all on Daft if the coaches do geographical recruiting? Or, did I miss it-are they all from the same area?

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Coaches may physically recruit geographically, but in terms of choosing who to focus on and who to offer I must imagine that the position coach would have a lot of sway.

Daft was also the quarterback coach for a while. I think he impacted two most important positions on the offense.

Shocky1;729468 said:

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tor, please explain how a potential backup cb with family time issue challenges would have helped the bears wr production in 2012 and beyond?

did you know that dunn caught only 22 passes as a hs senior?

do you think coach daft should have targeted a kid with a low hs gpa, family time challenges and below average hs wr production?

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First, let me clarify that I agree in general with the tenor of this thread. My point is that I don't think Davon Dunn yet qualifies as a bust of a recruit, even if he may not have been a great WR recruit. I say "may not" because the fact that he was he moved to CB is not necessarily evidence that he couldn't cut it as a WR. That said, hel, he's not a "potential backup cb", he's a fully-realized backup CB who played in eleven games as a redshirt freshman. Most likely he's a potential starting CB, which is a position where many think we could use help this coming year.

I also agree in general that "Some recruits are simply not destined to attend this university." But I don't think we can necessarily lump DD in this group. Yes, he had low HS grades and "family time challenges", but we've had our share of players with one or both of these issues before. In the area of grades, especially, I'd bet that we get more than a few players in every class with GPA's under 3.00. At least the guy is still in school at the school with which he signed his LOI, which is more than can be said about the guy(s) who replaced him in our recruiting class.

What is this "family time" thing?

agreed

beeasyed;729491 said:

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if i could choose between either having 2 players (one a backup CB, one a decent WR on a "decent" FSU team) or not having 3 players (Carter, Montgomery, Clay), i'd still choose the latter. at least the extra 3 schollies will help down the line.

many Cal fans were bitter and disappointed when we first got Harper and Dunn's commitments, and while they may have been harsh, they weren't wrong in second-guessing their abilities.

luckily, we stocked up on WR this year while it was talent-heavy. this is better IMO than taking 1-2 kids who might not pan out or start.

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Somewhat disagree.

Prior to Dunn and Harper committing, I believe (my memory is kind of sketchy), Cal had taken only 1 WR in the prior 2 years. Wideouts where an important target for the 2010 class. Neither Montgomery or Clay had any D-1 offers (again I'm not entirely sure). When both Dunn and Harper went to Fresno, Cal went into desperation mode and offered scholarships to Montgomery and Clay.

Also, it was Montgomery and Clay that people were 2nd guessing. Of this I'm fairly certain since there was a big flame war (AdmiralBear and DH33L15H) on the other site regarding this topic.

TorBear;729550 said:

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I also agree in general that "Some recruits are simply not destined to attend this university." But I don't think we can necessarily lump DD in this group. Yes, he had low HS grades and "family time challenges", but we've had our share of players with one or both of these issues before. In the area of grades, especially, I'd bet that we get more than a few players in every class with GPA's under 3.00. At least the guy is still in school at the school with which he signed his LOI, which is more than can be said about the guy(s) who replaced him in our recruiting class.

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I think the same can be said about Harper.

This year we had Jones and Allen. One could argue it was the team's strongest position...

Let's say next year that Allen is 100%, Harris is good and Treggs and/or any of the other new guys are solid contributors...

Can somebody explain how it's a "titanic recruiting fiasco"?

Big C_Cal;729569 said:

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This year we had Jones and Allen. One could argue it was the team's strongest position...

Let's say next year that Allen is 100%, Harris is good and Treggs and/or any of the other new guys are solid contributors...

Can somebody explain how it's a "titanic recruiting fiasco"?

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Other than Calvin, there was zero depth. Bouza (walk-on ?) was at some point in the season our 3rd string WR.

Until Harris or Treggs actually contribute our WR situation remains unknown.

Big C_Cal;729569 said:

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This year we had Jones and Allen. One could argue it was the team's strongest position...

Let's say next year that Allen is 100%, Harris is good and Treggs and/or any of the other new guys are solid contributors...

Can somebody explain how it's a "titanic recruiting fiasco"?

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we were just lucky that Jones and Allen were enough for the season. they were healthy, and they were great. had even one of them been sidelined, our "strongest position" immediately would've been "one of the thinnest positions". combine that with a lackluster running game for most of the first half of the season, it could have been a disaster.

Big C_Cal;729569 said:

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This year we had Jones and Allen. One could argue it was the team's strongest position...

Let's say next year that Allen is 100%, Harris is good and Treggs and/or any of the other new guys are solid contributors...

Can somebody explain how it's a "titanic recruiting fiasco"?

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depth issue. What if Allen goes down? Were starting guys who have a collective zero college catches so far. Risky. Harris and Treggs may be just fine, but they also may needs some actual playing to develop their feel and speed against college dbacks. The improvement last year in WRs with Coach K was quite noticeable. My view (which I have tried to soft sell here) is that Daft was not ready for prime time and had a titanic impact on the passing game as the QB and WR assistant. Just the awful job Daft did developing Mansion and Sweeney as back-ups (I assume JT took primary responsibility over Riley) meant no post season two years ago.

Ace;
Kaelin Clay was mentioned in the original post.
Cal became noticeably slow in recent years; Clay and Edmonds were speedsters and were enticing and worth a try.

The college ranks are filled with recruiting disappointments and miscalculations.
The 'theme' of this thread could be developed for all Division 1 schools.
That said; Shocky did some credible research and expressed his conclusions. Good post.

Guys please don't bake Clay on these threads, there is talk that he is trying to get his grades up to return, and some of his buds on the team are talking of him coming back. I remember kcals spring reports from last year that Clay was the fastest guy on the team and our db's really struggled to cover him. He would be a welcome return whenever he gets here imho. Remember Cal not a SEC football factory, or $C for that matter, these kids actually have to go to the same school we all did, while having the full-time job of D1 football.

I wasn't arguing against the premise of the post, but I think its narrow. There is a Recruiting Coordinator as well. Yes, its hard to imagine a scenario where a position coach sees tape of a guy and says "nope, don't want him" and he is recruited anyway. But who are the people in the living rooms talking to the parents and kids? I have no particular interest in defending Daft-recruiting isn't all that different than on-field performance, you win as a team, you lose as a team. From the recent quotes of the follow up recruiting sessions, its sounds like "team structure" wasn't as good as it could have been when Tosh was still with the team.
I would also add you project kids from HS to College regarding their on-field performance-everyone has to improve/grow to contribute on the field. Its the same in the classroom and in terms of general maturity-there has to be growth. The examples here didn't shows lack of growth to be sure-yep, it was a huge set back.

+1 on this... if a kid is willing to put in the effort and come back more power to him and a greater reflection on his strength of character.

We all do bonehead things as kids. What you learn from that and grow is more important. Geoff McArthur was immature as a frosh. He turned out well. Sometimes we just have to give them space to figure it out.

If we recruit, I hope the staff puts just as much consideration on character as they do on ability.

Shocky, your point is very important.

"Special admit" student-athletes should be for the most part avoided (or very carefully selected) at a highly demanding academic environment like Cal. For every ML success story, there might be 2 to 3 who flunk/drop out. That is bad for the program because the resulting graduation rates are pointed out to our recruits by opportunistic rival programs and, more importantly, that is bad for the students who have to try to pick themselves up from failure somewhere else. One of the main reasons I am against "affirmative action" at Cal for the general student population is because, when it was practiced, over 50% (sometimes over 60%!) of those specially admitted did not even make it past their freshman year.

As you pointed out, the impressive academic standing of the 2012 class was a welcome huge step in the right direction.

A lot of sunshine pumpers think we recruit nothing but amazing scholars to Cal. We do have some great student athletes but we also have admitted a good deal of athletes who probably shouldn't be here. I don't mind taking a couple of academic-at-risk players every year but the fact is this: we take lots. Much more than we should.

Fact is there's just not a lot of 4.2 forty guys with a 3.8 GPA's. Those two numbers don't go hand in hand. WR's are a breed all there own. RB's, DB's, tend to be fast and intelligent. WR's are just cut from a different cloth. Something about a position where you split out all by yourself creates an independent type of 'self-first' guy in today's football world. Easy to say to the coaching staff go and recruit world class speed, and Oh, by the way they also need to nail it in the Cal classroom or you are doing a lousy coaching job.

Keenen, Harris, Clay, Treggs, Powe, Dozier, Lawler, Harper, and the rest will be the best overall WR talent ever at Cal under the Tedford era. Obvioously Desean, Jordan and Hawkins are the standard .... but i think the same talent and more is on the table now at Cal. Coaches have done a super job landing this talent. Lastly, stop the Daft hate. He developed Marvin big time, Keenen also spoke highly of him as a coach. Let it rest. Great days ahead.

wifeisafurd;729591 said:

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depth issue. What if Allen goes down? Were starting guys who have a collective zero college catches so far. Risky. Harris and Treggs may be just fine, but they also may needs some actual playing to develop their feel and speed against college dbacks. The improvement last year in WRs with Coach K was quite noticeable. My view (which I have tried to soft sell here) is that Daft was not ready for prime time and had a titanic impact on the passing game as the QB and WR assistant. Just the awful job Daft did developing Mansion and Sweeney as back-ups (I assume JT took primary responsibility over Riley) meant no post season two years ago.

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"situation unknown"... "could have been a disaster"... "depth issue": This all constitutes a "titanic recruiting disaster"?

When a real football disaster hits, what words will we still have in reserve for that? I'd like to add here that my great-granfather was on the Titanic... fortunately, he was not (but what a story, if true, eh?).

Go Bears!

Big C_Cal;729854 said:

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"situation unknown"... "could have been a disaster"... "depth issue": This all constitutes a "titanic recruiting disaster"?

When a real football disaster hits, what words will we still have in reserve for that? I'd like to add here that my great-granfather was on the Titanic... fortunately, he was not (but what a story, if true, eh?).

Go Bears!

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ok. so thankfully it worked out. Allen and Jones saved the season. but had even one gotten hurt, it would've been a disaster. and it would've been caused by that recruiting season. is that even up for debate?