Barsky, Tedford, Allen interviewed.

okaydo;841892299 said:

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Barsky, Tedford, Allen interviewed.

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Why does it feel like Cal is the only one who has to deal with this nonsense from the press?

Have you seen some of the majors and degrees that SEC and Big 12 schools put out there for their athletes? They're probably good enough to make you the next cashier at McDonalds or Applebee's.

And why do people keep on harping on about the stupid graduation rate? Cal probably is in the top-5 of toughest D-I schools to graduate from, athlete or student.

65% of football players graduate from the SEC. What does it mean???

Student video?

LessMilesMoreTedford;841892326 said:

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Why does it feel like Cal is the only one who has to deal with this nonsense from the press?

Have you seen some of the majors and degrees that SEC and Big 12 schools put out there for their athletes? They're probably good enough to make you the next cashier at McDonalds or Applebee's.

And why do people keep on harping on about the stupid graduation rate? Cal probably is in the top-5 of toughest D-I schools to graduate from, athlete or student.

65% of football players graduate from the SEC. What does it mean???

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Cal should be held to a higher standard than SEC schools.

LessMilesMoreTedford;841892326 said:

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Why does it feel like Cal is the only one who has to deal with this nonsense from the press?

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Because there are so few schools that combine academic and athletic excellence (which is why we're so freaking awesome). Other schools that manage to do this (sadly, I must credit the Furd here) are private, so they can do whatever they want with the money.

Barsky: "[Intercollegiate Athletics] is not what we are here to do. It is a side show to the University. ... To take these students, whose academics are compromised so that one percent of them can become professionals isn't really making alot of sense. ... Could you imagine if our graduation rate at our University was one percent? Wouldn't people criticize that?"

I'd love to get this guy in a deposition on this subject. Smart arrogant witnesses crumble very quickly when their ill formed logic is taken apart piece by piece.

I'd make him cry. :rollinglaugh:

TheScientist;841892336 said:

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Because there are so few schools that combine academic and athletic excellence (which is why we're so freaking awesome). Other schools that manage to do this (sadly, I must credit the Furd here) are private, so they can do whatever they want with the money.

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What about Michigan

FrankBear21;841892349 said:

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What about Michigan

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Maybe they have more support from private donations.

SchadenBear;841892343 said:

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Barsky: "[Intercollegiate Athletics] is not what we are here to do. It is a side show to the University. ... To take these students, whose academics are compromised so that one percent of them can become professionals isn't really making alot of sense. ... Could you imagine if our graduation rate at our University was one percent? Wouldn't people criticize that?"

I'd love to get this guy in a deposition on this subject. Smart arrogant witnesses crumble very quickly when their ill formed logic is taken apart piece by piece.

I'd make him cry. :rollinglaugh:

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Yeah, that Barsky quote left me scratching my head.

SchadenBear;841892343 said:

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Barsky: "[Intercollegiate Athletics] is not what we are here to do. It is a side show to the University. ... To take these students, whose academics are compromised so that one percent of them can become professionals isn't really making alot of sense. ... Could you imagine if our graduation rate at our University was one percent? Wouldn't people criticize that?"

I'd love to get this guy in a deposition on this subject. Smart arrogant witnesses crumble very quickly when their ill formed logic is taken apart piece by piece.

I'd make him cry. :rollinglaugh:

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Thanks for catching this. It was a stupid remark, That said although I thought this was a little amateurish I didn't think the content and perspective was that bad.

we just sent 13 kids to the NFL IN ONE YEAR.....12 / 27 from 2007 class are pro plus 4 from 2008 (many still on the team still)....so why would our best player / 1st round lock Keenan Allen not ignore the fact that 1% of college players get drafted.

I love how every time Barsky lied or mislead about a statistic, the woman doing the video quoted a correct statistic.

So all I got out of that video is that KA21 is awesome =)

mechaniCAL;841892441 said:

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So all I got out of that video is that KA21 is awesome =)

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This

SchadenBear;841892343 said:

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[Intercollegiate Athletics] is side show

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"only country w/ professional quality sports @ college level". like that, and that's the way ...












:cheer:Monty

and what's the point? I like Tedford's take on it..Some people come to Cal to play football [U]and [/U] to get a great education..period.

Keenan Allen is the 1% - No Doubt.

I thought Tedford's take was great. Barsky comes off as a tool.

For some reason - no one ever wants to point out that the AD's loss has nothing to do with Football - but the other sports. I am also not sure why the AD does not want to respond to any of the discussion of finances of the stadium retro.

Someone should also interview Russell White on his take.

Final thought - this is why USC is the dominant program in the pac - can you imagine a computer science professor at that school going on a rampage against college football?

There is a tension between the historic academic record at Cal, which is seen as the apex of study and research, and a resurgence of football prominence that has been missing for the last 50 years. There is a certain amount of envy on the part of some faculty members at the income received by the coaches and administrators. There is also resentment that the coaches have become Public Figures where a faculty member who has achieved a Ph.D and has written prolifically is ignored by the general public. This is to be expected and Barsky is a prime example of that group.

I don't believe there is much that can be done about it, except to ignore people like Barsky who have their own agendas. He is one voice crying out in the wilderness. These TV/radio stations are always looking for human interest news and where your tax dollars are going. The WSJ article inspired this report. When CMS opens to a great celebration I believe all this bellyaching will evaporate.

I'm disappointed that Tedford is quoted by Allen as saying, "African-American studies is a laid back major." Not good form.

6bear6;841892521 said:

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There is a tension between the historic academic record at Cal, which is seen as the apex of study and research, and a resurgence of football prominence that has been missing for the last 50 years. There is a certain amount of envy on the part of some faculty members at the income received by the coaches and administrators. There is also resentment that the coaches have become Public Figures where a faculty member who has achieved a Ph.D and has written prolifically is ignored by the general public. This is to be expected and Barsky is a prime example of that group.

I don't believe there is much that can be done about it, except to ignore people like Barsky who have their own agendas. He is one voice crying out in the wilderness. These TV/radio stations are always looking for human interest news and where your tax dollars are going. The WSJ article inspired this report. When CMS opens to a great celebration I believe all this bellyaching will evaporate.

I'm disappointed that Tedford is quoted by Allen as saying, "African-American studies is a laid back major." Not good form.

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I think you are right - I have taught high school for 37 years and several younger coaches earn alot more and get more kudos..they deserve it..Forget Barsky.

Allen's comment "laid back"..kind of jerked me too..but remember that the phrase has many meanings today..He could have just as likely said it was a "chill major," etc.

wifeisafurd;841892382 said:

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I love how every time Barsky lied or mislead about a statistic, the woman doing the video quoted a correct statistic.

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I love it how some people feel the need to lie or mislead about Barsky's quotes in pathetic attempts to discredit him. Barsky said very little in this video, and none of it was refuted by the narrator.

Barsky said that athletics is not what the university is here to do. Athletics is a sideshow.

Barsky noted that only 1% of college athletes make it to the pros. He questioned why Berkeley should accept so many academically-compromised students, when the chance of success in their chose profession (i.e. pro sports) is so low.

He noted that the athletics director makes more money than the chancellor, as an example that money doesn't go to the student athletes, it goes to the people who are running the program.

BAMSPhD;841892675 said:

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Barsky noted that only 1% of college athletes make it to the pros. He questioned why Berkeley should accept so many academically-compromised students, when the chance of success in their chose profession (i.e. pro sports) is so low.

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Why didn't you, er, Barsky clarify that the 1% represents a single employer, the NFL, and that if there were only one employer for, oh let's just randomly pick software engineers, the number of Cal gEECS who "make the pros" would probably be even lower than 1%?

BAMSPhD;841892675 said:

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Barsky noted that only 1% of college athletes make it to the pros. He questioned why Berkeley should accept so many academically-compromised students, when the chance of success in their chose profession (i.e. pro sports) is so low.

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It is disengenuous to argue that student athletes attend Cal with the intent of turning professional in their chosen sport. Some may, others may dream, but the majority don't. Barsky knows that.

It is easy to ridicule a Cal professor, particularly one who has taught a class on the tensions between academics and athletics, when he publicly makes statements using cheap straw man arguments while trying to prove his point. It is like trying to argue with a precocious fifth grader who continues to attempt to change the subject of the debate.

Barsky's statement, in the context he used it, is not only embarrisngly inept but also sad given that he is a tenured professor at Cal.

OldBlue1999;841892677 said:

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Why didn't you, er, Barsky clarify that the 1% represents a single employer, the NFL, and that if there were only one employer for, oh let's just randomly pick software engineers, the number of Cal gEECS who "make the pros" would probably be even lower than 1%?

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A single employer? Please. There are 32 teams in the NFL, but there are also plenty of other professional sports teams. Just in the US there are major league baseball, NBA, NHL, Arena Football, CFL, major league soccer, WNBA. How many professional minor league baseball teams are there? Wikipedia lists well over 300. There are even professional lacrosse leagues.

Cal has actually had sports programs since its founding. It has always been part of The university.

Nobody said otherwise.

BAMSPhD;841892744 said:

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A single employer? Please. There are 32 teams in the NFL, but there are also plenty of other professional sports teams. Just in the US there are major league baseball, NBA, NHL, Arena Football, CFL, major league soccer, WNBA. How many professional minor league baseball teams are there? Wikipedia lists well over 300. There are even professional lacrosse leagues.

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LOL, and OMG, and seriously are you going to try to continue this argument?

That if a Cal football player doesn't make it into the NFL its as if he didn't graduate?

Not only is that incredibly idiotic, but its also a slap in the face to all the other student athletes who graduate Cal and go onto do other great things.

BAMSPhD;841892744 said:

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A single employer? Please. There are 32 teams in the NFL, but there are also plenty of other professional sports teams. Just in the US there are major league baseball, NBA, NHL, Arena Football, CFL, major league soccer, WNBA. How many professional minor league baseball teams are there? Wikipedia lists well over 300. There are even professional lacrosse leagues.

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WTF are you talking about? Your crusade is against FOOTBALL! What does MLB, NBA, NHL etc. etc. etc. have to do with football, and more specifically, football at Cal?

And yes the NFL is one single employer. It has 32 franchises, but they're all run by a centralized management team. That's why they have a CBA and a draft, because they've all agreed to a certain set of rules. Do you know anything about sports business? There is no business parallel between even the most heated on-field NFL rivalries and say, Google vs. Facebook or Microsoft vs. Apple, all major employers of computer programmers. When was the last time the boards & execs at Google and Facebook held joint owner meetings to discuss how they were going to run their business? NFL holds those meetings annually. When was the last time Microsoft or Apple subjected their employees to discipline handed down from a central, non-governmental office that has oversight over both of them? Happens almost weekly in the NFL, and this offseason there was a major incident that resulted in a management level employee of one franchise being suspended for a full year without pay by central management.

Never let the facts get in the way of a good old fashioned smear campaign though.

BAMSPhD;841892675 said:

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He noted that the athletics director makes more money than the chancellor, as an example that money doesn't go to the student athletes, it goes to the people who are running the program.

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[Aside]Maybe competition is higher for good athletics directors than for chancellors?

Lol are you trying to deny that there is a huge graduation rate gap for "student" athletes at Cal?

I assume that's your way of saying: "Damn, I've lost, I'm gonna change the argument now." Fun playing with you.

:gobears:

BAMSPhD;841892881 said:

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Lol are you trying to deny that there is a huge graduation rate gap for "student" athletes at Cal?

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BAMSPhD;841892881 said:

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Lol are you trying to deny that there is a huge graduation rate gap for "student" athletes at Cal?

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Lol are you trying to deny that there is a huge gap between the actual graduation rate for student athletes at Cal and the "1% in the NFL" figure you tried to compare to general graduation rates in the video?

I like the video overall. I want to hear Tedford defend the program and talk frankly about some players getting more out of the academics than others, but pointing out that even the less-motivated guys are still learning.

mechaniCAL;841892441 said:

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So all I got out of that video is that KA21 is awesome =)

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I don't get this. Keenan is the 1%, so he's not the issue. He sounds like he is not motivated academically, so if he were not such a strong pro prospect, he might have been seen in the future as an example of a student-athlete who neither went pro nor graduated.

The guy who is awesome is Worrell Williams, who touted the whole student-athlete experience and the value of his Cal degree.




Another awesome guy is Matt Summers-Gavin, who graduated a few days ago. :cheer If he manages to have a pro career that would be extra awesome.

This is getting pretty far afield, but I will humor you for a moment. In fact, Apple, Google, Adobe, Intel, Intuit, Pixar, and Lucasfilm were recently accused of conspiring to suppress the compensation of their employees. Lol.

Now, when you accuse me of a crusade against football you are similarly confused. Why would you say such a thing?

6bear6;841892521 said:

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I'm disappointed that Tedford is quoted by Allen as saying, "African-American studies is a laid back major." Not good form.

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I'm not going to go back and re-watch, but I believe KA credited that to Marvin, not JT.