Watch Training Days, Ohio St., on ESPN. To say Urban Meyer is just a tad more dynamic than Tedford would be an understatement. I'm guessing too that this isn't just tv hype and that Urban can coach a bit given his past record. Unless OSU doesn't have players I'd say CAL is in for all it can handle when it heads to Ohio. In all the videos I've seen of Tedford the last 10 years I haven't seen nearly the emotion that I saw in this 1 hour show. There is more than one way to skin a cat, though, so there is hope. The game will be interesting.

yeah I was thinking the same thing when I saw it. also, a lot of SEC schools have 1v1s competitions with the whole team watchin on, do we have that??

beeasyed;841927607 said:

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yeah I was thinking the same thing when I saw it. also, a lot of SEC schools have 1v1s competitions with the whole team watchin on, do we have that??

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OSU is on probation and they get to be featured on ESPN every week? That is why probation doesn't really punish the big cats, they don't get a bowl game, but get rewarded by having their own TV show.

I want maximum juice! or, whatever it is he's been saying.

Football is a game of emotion. Sideline stoics like Laundry and Bryant could get away with it because they had assistants who understood their roles and how to implement their programs. Seeing how many OC's have passed through here, I'm not so sure JT is very good at identifying the assistants he wants and communicating his needs through them to the players.


The most recent Sport Illustrated has an article about the Sabanization of College Football. I want Kirby Smart to be our next head coach.

That John Simon looks like he could be a handful.

buster99;841927609 said:

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OSU is on probation and they get to be featured on ESPN every week? That is why probation doesn't really punish the big cats, they don't get a bowl game, but get rewarded by having their own TV show.

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I'd go play for Meyer after watching this.

I'm sorry..did Bill Walsh ever do a "Rah Rah" football camp....no. You don't have to copy everything you see. Bill Parcells wasn't a big rah rah guy either. Both were pretty successful.

To anyone that saw this....could you imagine what it would be like around there after they lose to us? They'd probably be sleeping outside on the ground the whole week after that.

MinotStateBeav;841927629 said:

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I'm sorry..did Bill Walsh ever do a "Rah Rah" football camp....no. You don't have to copy everything you see. Bill Parcells wasn't a big rah rah guy either. Both were pretty successful.

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Walsh is a good example, Parcells is not. Parcells was very emotional and was very much like Meyer in the videos I've seen. Walsh, had a temper (I know Tedford has too), but I don't know his practice demeanor. In fact, I know Walsh's 'soft' personality was what cost him the Bengals job when Paul Brown retired and picked someone else. Brown thought Walsh didn't have what it took to be a head coach. It's hard to identify a good head coach.

What I saw from Meyer was dynamic leadership where players were challenged to be their best every second of the day. It's tough to be on your team like this day-in and day-out. You have to be super critical, not settling for average, yet build them up at the same time. It is not a wonder Meyer had some health issues.

Bill Walsh didn't have a lot of emotion either.

Tedfords biggest weakness to me has always been his attempts to control emotion. Not only his own, but those of his players (see taking stats down so players can't see them during the game). I understand emotion can be a negative thing when things start to get out of control...but trying to hide emotions hasn't prevented the downward spirals that lead to blow outs the last few years...

For college football emotions are amazingly powerful. One would think the best collegiate coaches learn how to use that to their advantage. Tedford seems to hide them behind a bush and hopes that no one notices them/that they go away.

~MrGPAC

Sonofoski;841927638 said:

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Bill Walsh didn't have a lot of emotion either.

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Great, then as long as Tedford is the greatest football coach/innovator of all time, we are good to go without needing that emotional mumble jumble.

Sonofoski;841927638 said:

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Bill Walsh didn't have a lot of emotion either.

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I seem to recall reading that Bill Walsh was quite fiery at times. Like most things in life there are many facets here at play. You can certainly be a great head coach without being a yeller and a screamer. BTW, I don't think Meyer came across as some sort of emotional monster in this show. He seemed to me to have just the right mix of all the qualities of a head coach. With that being said you still have to have good assistants and you still need to be able to coach the technical aspects of the game. I'm guessing Meyer can do this. Will see if his assistants are as good as he is. Tedford obviously can coach the technical aspects of football. What I've been worried about is the ability to take your team and your coaches to that high level needed for greatness. Not many can do this so I'm not just knocking Tedford.

ehh I'll have to disagree with you on Parcells..while he was candid on camera. Generally speaking he was not a rah rah coach. Much more like Belichek. Though defensive minded. Parcells spoke whats on his mind lol.

Sonofoski;841927638 said:

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Bill Walsh didn't have a lot of emotion either.

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Same with Tom Landry.

Having played for several different coaches myself, the Urban Meyer I have noted on the ESPN training camp seems aloof, hard and impersonal..sure..he was miked and on camera..Mr. Tough Guy..but at the one team dinner that was screened, one of the players was imitating him/poking fun, and UM appeared to not be amused or to join in the joke at all.. Mr. Business Coach has his place..no doubt about it..but Tedford comes off more as a father type with alot of the players. Not rah-rah Pete Carroll (where it seemed to work!) Do we REALLY know what works motivationally these days? Can we judge JT from behind the scenes? Or in the locker room? Urban Meyer seems a dick-type to me..go ahead and win games, but you are dispensible..kind of attitude (at least on this program)..Tedford seems more approachable and mutual. I view this as a plus having been around teams and football for 50 years myself. Fire and brimstone left when I was in high school..I still wouldn't trade Coach Tedford..I know I know..this conversation can go on forever..but players can smell out coaches and I wonder if this do-only-as-I-say attitude with little compromise, actually works. I guess we will see since winning brings even the biggest @sshole coaches plenty of acclaim. Remember when we slammed Harbaugh and thought Chip Kelly was a d*ck?

tommie317;841927641 said:

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Great, then as long as Tedford is the greatest football coach/innovator of all time, we are good to go without needing that emotional mumble jumble.

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As this thread has shown, there are very successful coaches on every point of the personality spectrum. It literally means zero. You can coach, or you can't. Urban Meyer clearly can. His personality has nothing to do with it. Two coaches with equal coaching skill do not become separated simply because one has a more "dynamic" personality.

Mike Stoops is another great example of a non-emotional coach.

:sarc:

Mike Singletary had a fire in his belly which he could see because his head was up his ass

There are three types of coaches. Great ones, mediocre ones and bad ones.

GB54;841927768 said:

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Mike Singletary had a fire in his belly which he could see because his head was up his ass

There are three types of coaches. Great ones, mediocre ones and bad ones.

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.....and we've had all three over the last decade......:p

72CalBear;841927701 said:

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Having played for several different coaches myself, the Urban Meyer I have noted on the ESPN training camp seems aloof, hard and impersonal..sure..he was miked and on camera..Mr. Tough Guy..but at the one team dinner that was screened, one of the players was imitating him/poking fun, and UM appeared to not be amused or to join in the joke at all.. Mr. Business Coach has his place..no doubt about it..but Tedford comes off more as a father type with alot of the players. Not rah-rah Pete Carroll (where it seemed to work!) Do we REALLY know what works motivationally these days? Can we judge JT from behind the scenes? Or in the locker room? Urban Meyer seems a dick-type to me..go ahead and win games, but you are dispensible..kind of attitude (at least on this program)..Tedford seems more approachable and mutual. I view this as a plus having been around teams and football for 50 years myself. Fire and brimstone left when I was in high school..I still wouldn't trade Coach Tedford..I know I know..this conversation can go on forever..but players can smell out coaches and I wonder if this do-only-as-I-say attitude with little compromise, actually works. I guess we will see since winning brings even the biggest @sshole coaches plenty of acclaim. Remember when we slammed Harbaugh and thought Chip Kelly was a d*ck?

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We already have seen. Meyer has won at Bowling Green, Utah and Florida. Apparently, he passes the players' smell test. I really didn't see any of the things you saw in this hour long show. No big deal. I find coaching and coaches very interesting to study. The OSU/CAL game won't prove much of anything. I just think that knowing what we know about these two coaches the game will present an interesting point of reference as to how each one is doing. Anyway, have a good evening.

Let's not forget Meyer quit on his team in Florida, "retired", and then almost immediately "unretired" to coach tOSU. He also ran a very loose ship at Florida with the arrest record while he was there being absolutely pathetic. He's obviously a great coach but there are some ugly warts as well.

Bryant; McKay; Robinson; Kapp. There are 4 widely different types for you. A friend who played for Bryant once put off my praise, quietly looking me in the eye and setting down his beer at a b-b-q for emphasis, drawling, "Beah, Bra-ahant waz naught a verhy nace ma-an." John McKay was the ultimate chief executive, assembling talent and giving them a system in which to thrive, while maintaining a wry sense of humor. John Robinson was much the same (also out of that Oregon mold of decades ago, I think) but he always had fun with his players. He once called time out with the Trojans driving for a possible come from behind score. His QB came to the sideline for instructions and Robinson put both hands on his shoulder pads, stared at him intently, and said, 'Hey, I just wanted to share with you, isn't this the most fun anyone could have on a Saturday afternoon?" They both laughed and the qb went back in the game, loose and confident and calmly through a game winning pass. Joe Kapp: No one loved the game or his school more or wanted success for it rather than himself. But up to date knowledge of the game and of the kind of kid in your coaching generation is essential.
You can win with a variety of styles and philosophies. There is no one best way. We don't want Woody Hayes incarnate in Strawberry. We appreciate that recruits come away from weekends full of good reports on the 'family atmosphere'. But we also want leadership, acumen, shrewd football judgment and execution and Boise State style audacity when appropriate. Without all of these, we're not going to be major bowl contenders.

Thanks for discussing this topic without calling me some sort of Tedford hater. I just came away impressed with Meyer after watching this show and I hope Cal and Tedford ramp up the intensity this year especially at OSU.
Have a great day everyone.

Deutsch;841927844 said:

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....You can win with a variety of styles and philosophies. There is no one best way. We don't want Woody Hayes incarnate in Strawberry. We appreciate that recruits come away from weekends full of good reports on the 'family atmosphere'. But we also want leadership, acumen, shrewd football judgment and execution and Boise State style audacity when appropriate. Without all of these, we're not going to be major bowl contenders.

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+1

82gradDLSdad;841927601 said:

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Watch Training Days, Ohio St., on ESPN. To say Urban Meyer is just a tad more dynamic than Tedford would be an understatement. I'm guessing too that this isn't just tv hype and that Urban can coach a bit given his past record. Unless OSU doesn't have players I'd say CAL is in for all it can handle when it heads to Ohio. In all the videos I've seen of Tedford the last 10 years I haven't seen nearly the emotion that I saw in this 1 hour show. There is more than one way to skin a cat, though, so there is hope. The game will be interesting.

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I don't think it will be Urban Meyer, emotion and all, beating Cal -- it will be our inability to defend the Option specifically and our inability to win on the road in general.

If we defend their QB (Miller) like we defended UCLA's QB Prince last year, then Miller will run for 200+ yards....easily. Meyer's spread-option is way more deadly than the Pistol offenses we've faced because it has more weapons and more speed. Pendy has to earn his paycheck in this game.

Also, playing at the Horseshoe could bring back memories of Knoxville Tennessee all over again and the typical Cal Fan would be reduced to praising Buckeye Fan hospitality and how kindly they were treated in the Midwest for the next 100 years.

Huh? OSU's spread option is very similar to Oregon's, against which we have had some success. Not sure why you would bother comparing it to the Pistol.

TarzanaBear;841928004 said:

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Disagree. Arizona's spread option (or new spread option) is pretty similar. Meyer's is much closer to a Pistol than that type of offense. Now he did run Tebow up the gut a lot, but that was just a very effective play, rather than some sort of scheme issue.

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No, it's not. Does Meyer's offense have the QB short of shotgun depth like the pistol? No. Does it routinely have a tailback directly behind the QB, not offset? No.

It's not the pistol, it's the spread option.

I'm not sure what "running up the gut" is supposed to indicate, that's just the inside zone read where the QB keeps the ball. Both the spread option and pistol can run that play.

At the end of the show there were lots of clips of OSU struggling on offense during their first scrimmage of the fall camp. And many clips of Meyer being honest about where their offense was at that time. I found it really interesting that he said he thought there was a mindset that it was ok to not be great on offense at OSU. I can see that given their reliance in the past on their defense and special teams. We'll see how Meyer and his staff do in changing this mindset and more importantly improving the offensive execution.

82gradDLSdad;841928008 said:

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We'll see how Meyer and his staff do in changing this mindset and more importantly improving the offensive execution.

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I hope that none of this "improving" happens anytime in the next couple of years.

I'm disappointed the ESPN special didn't show any really hard-core "team-building" stuff like the OSU guys lying down on the center stripe of a highway or something. Maybe they'll save that for the week they play us.

elpbear;841927993 said:

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Huh? OSU's spread option is very similar to Oregon's, against which we have had some success. Not sure why you would bother comparing it to the Pistol.

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Stop being a know-it-all prick and do the math -- whether it was the Pistol or the Spread Option, we did NOT stop Nevada @ Reno, Oregon @ Corvallis (last two times) or UCLA @ Hollywood last year, all road games.

In case you've forgotten Cal will play @ Columbus, Ohio, and face a Spread Option attack on the road. Simple as that.

Are we clear? Or do you still have an irritating need to appear more witty again?

TarzanaBear;841928011 said:

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Did I say it was a pistol formation? No. But Meyer's offense is much more similar to a pro style offense (as is the pistol) than Chip Kelly's. A lot more motion, a lot more power running, and a lot less zone read.

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More motion: no.
More power running: well, you have Alex Smith at Utah and Tim Tebow at Florida, you're sure as hell going to 'power' run more because the QB is a more powerful runner. I don't recall as much 'power' when Tebow left.
A lot less zone read? Bzzzt. Just because Tebow kept a lot doesn't mean it wasn't zone read.

Our Domicile;841928064 said:

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Stop being a know-it-all prick and do the math -- whether it was the Pistol or the Spread Option, we did NOT stop Nevada @ Reno, Oregon @ Corvallis (last two times) or UCLA @ Hollywood last year, all road games.

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Who's the prick here? By the way, Oregon doesn't play in Corvallis! :rollinglaugh:. And assuming you meant 'Eugene' I'm not sure why that is relevant, we've done very well against Chipper at home (where we actually play them this year) the last two times, holding them to a measly ONE TD on offense most recently. Yeah, that's pretty good...

Quote:

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In case you've forgotten Cal will play @ Columbus, Ohio, and face a Spread Option attack on the road. Simple as that.

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Simple ideas for simple minds... you're right, it does fit you.

Quote:

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Are we clear? Or do you still have an irritating need to appear more witty again?

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I'm not being witty. I just disagree.

Our Domicile;841928064 said:

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Stop being a know-it-all prick and do the math -- whether it was the Pistol or the Spread Option, we did NOT stop Nevada @ Reno, Oregon @ Corvallis (last two times) or UCLA @ Hollywood last year, all road games.

In case you've forgotten Cal will play @ Columbus, Ohio, and face a Spread Option attack on the road. Simple as that.

Are we clear? Or do you still have an irritating need to appear more witty again?

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Aside from the Corvallis error which someone else pointed out, the Rose Bowl isn't in Hollywood. You're terrible with geography.