UCBerkGrad;841946635 said:

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I agree....my point is the defense played the same team as Maynard did, yet their numbers are (relatively) far worse. Doesn't bode well for the rest of the schedule.

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Indeed. Right now, the only unit ready for prime time appears to be our receiver corps.

SnoozerBear;841946633 said:

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Oh c'mon, a competent QB would have either 1. not thrown the ball because there is a defender there, 2. attempted to pump fake, then pass, 3. or, side arm the throw.

Oh that's easy to say, harder to do? No actually it is easy to do, that's why embarrassing interceptions like that rarely happen!

That was purely a boneheaded decision to throw, and a terribly thrown ball because Maynard didn't lob the ball.

My goodness, that throw wasn't even made under pressure...I am almost afraid to think what Maynard will do this Saturday against OSU's D, because his flaws will only be magnified.

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LOL you never "lob" a quick out. Okay, maybe Bridgford would...

And the bolded part is just sheer stupidity. No pressure? REALLY?? Was that D lineman charging Maynard to bring him a cup of tea?? :headbang

SnoozerBear;841946633 said:

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Oh c'mon, a competent QB would have either 1. not thrown the ball because there is a defender there, 2. attempted to pump fake, then pass, 3. or, side arm the throw.

Oh that's easy to say, harder to do? No actually it is easy to do, that's why embarrassing interceptions like that rarely happen!

That was purely a boneheaded decision to throw, and a terribly thrown ball because Maynard didn't lob the ball.

My goodness, that throw wasn't even made under pressure...I am almost afraid to think what Maynard will do this Saturday against OSU's D, because his flaws will only be magnified.

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If the timing of the play is that he's supposed to go back and immediately make the throw blind like Tedford said, it makes it hard to do something different. It's like when QBs look like they throw to nowhere if a receiver runs a wrong route and isn't where they're supposed to be or if they get unexpectedly taken out of the play somehow.

Aside from that, I think yes, Maynard's play could be better, but had we a better pass defense these games wouldn't have looked so close (a loss in Nevada's case) even with Maynard's faults.

BearLineman;841946612 said:

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Remember the good times...when Kyle Boller threw the ball too hard for Division 1 receivers to catch yet lanky little high school kids pulled them down at will when he was in high school....

We will look back on this and laugh. Remember when Maynard repeatedly threw shitty passes his receivers damn near died to catch...wait remember when he was at Buffalo, oh yeah nobody does...ok, remember when he was throwing nerf footballs to KA in the living room...****, i dont know what my point is other than Maynard is shitty. Keep throwing up his stats but i choose to watch him play and see his emotions and reactions. A decent QB guves a **** and i dont see Maynard giving a **** about anything except his bicep. By the way, Cal Strength and Conditioning Staff do not approve of his biceps.

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Seriously, people treat players with kitty gloves, and can't seem to accept reality. Maynard sucks, a view point unanimously shared amongst fans of opposing teams that have played us...yet some Cal fans are pulling ridiculously lame excuses to conceal Maynard's inadequacies.

StillNoStanfurdium;841946645 said:

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Aside from that, I think yes, Maynard's play could be better, but had we a better pass defense these games wouldn't have looked so close (a loss in Nevada's case) even with Maynard's faults.

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I agree with you, we've regressed defensively and look nothing like a top pac-12 unit, but the reason Maynard gets so much criticism is 1. his flaws are magnified as a QB, 2. his is the most inconsistent part of the team.

Let's just say there are two ways people view a play.

(a) how they felt when it happened
(b) what actually happened

Have you guys even looked at the tape?

UCBerkGrad;841946586 said:

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Can't hit a 7 yard pass, yet averages 9 yards per attempt. Hmmm.....

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LOL if you need that explained.

wallyball2003;841946654 said:

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LOL if you need that explained.

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LOL if you are complaining about a 7 yard completion when he averages 9 per attempt.

Maynard is bad. Have you ever said to yourself "If we could just get the ball in Maynard's hands we'll win this game"? I used to think that with Palawski and Rogers. My thought with Maynard is "It's OK to throw a bad pass, just don't get intercepted."

The players always thought they could win with Palawski and Rogers. The fans felt it too. I get zero such feeling with Maynard and I can't imagine the players feel any different.

That, to me, is what makes a good QB.

BerlinerBaer;841946644 said:

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No pressure? REALLY?? Was that D lineman charging Maynard to bring him a cup of tea?? :headbang

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So, are you telling me that the DE charged at Maynard, Maynard felt the pressure, and threw the ball right at the DE?

Okay, if true Maynard is much worse than I thought.

If not, then you acknowledge Maynard saw that DE, yet that play still resulted in an INT...which means Maynard should've done something different instead of throwing a low pass over the DE (that wasn't suppose to be there lol) right?

BearLineman;841946661 said:

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In Maynards defense....on the "blind throw" in question...he has made hundreds of blind throws inthe past two years here...and our guys caught them! Imagine his surprise when it was picked off! Yes, kudos for running that guy down. He can run thankfully which should bode well for us when hes making more blind throws.

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I would have much more faith in our fan base if fans simply accept Maynard is a sh*tty QB, yet we all agree to support him regardless because he is the best we have.

But throwing out these passing stats without context, or blaming a FCS level DE for not falling on a cut block is simply lame. Let's not insult each others intelligence for the sake of winning an argument.

SnoozerBear;841946633 said:

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Oh c'mon, a competent QB would have either 1. not thrown the ball because there is a defender there, 2. attempted to pump fake, then pass, 3. or, side arm the throw.

Oh that's easy to say, harder to do? No actually it is easy to do, that's why embarrassing interceptions like that rarely happen!

That was purely a boneheaded decision to throw, and a terribly thrown ball because Maynard didn't lob the ball.

My goodness, that throw wasn't even made under pressure...I am almost afraid to think what Maynard will do this Saturday against OSU's D, because his flaws will only be magnified.

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Snoozer, do you even understand what Tedford was saying?

That screen pass is the equivilent of a planned "no-look" pass in basketball. The QB starts by turning away and making a play fake. He then turns back and throws the ball at a spot.

It shouldn't be dangerous because the DE on that side is supposed to be cut blocked and unable to put his hands in the air. Unfortunately, the tackle missed the block and the DE came through clean. Because Maynard was not looking that way until the moment he releases the ball there was nothing he could do to prevent the DE from putting his hands in the path of the football.

Even with thatm most of the time a DE that is in that position doesn't catch the ball, but this time the Southern Utah player caught it.

This isn't what you expect, and I'm sure it wasn't how Tedford planned it.

In the end the interception isn't totally on Maynard. At one point I said it was perhaps 60% his fault, but after watching the NFL games Sunday and Monday night I noticed that the way that screen is set up really puts the QB on an island if the cut block doesn't work.

Instead that interception was caused by.

A) the missed cut block

B) Southern Utah had the right defense in place, so that the DE ended up rushing in to block the throwing lane. Had he been on a stunt he might have pulled himself out of the passing lane.

Sometimes things like this happen, and you shouldn't just blame the QB.

Heck I watched the MNF game with the Raiders v Chargers. 3 times Rivers threw great balls that ended up going through the hands of Antonio Gates. There were even a couple of drive killing incompletions by Rivers. Yet, no one here is going to say "Rivers can't even make high school throws."

I even have to laugh at one poster who said the throws were 18 inches to 2 feet off line. These passes are travelling 20-30 yards and still within 24 inches of some theoretical "perfect" target. Heck at carnivals they give out prizes if you can throw a football through a tire at less than 6 yards. If Maynard is hitting the tire at 30 yards, he's actually rather accurate.

And watch at the NFL level, very few long passes actually hit receivers "in stride". The "in stride" metric really only works if the throw is a quick slant. Most receivers end up stretching or bending to make catches. But you get to the NFL level and the receivers are good enough to mask the misses a bit better.

I don't expect my argument to have any impact on you. On Sunday I observed that the anti-Maynard crowd would find a reason to complain if Maynard went 24-24 for 1200 yards and 24 TDs. But he's not anywhere near as bad as you try to make him out to be. I don't expect him to be drafted to the NFL, but he won't be the reason Cal has a poor season.

UCBerkGrad;841946659 said:

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LOL if you are complaining about a 7 yard completion when he averages 9 per attempt.

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I know you understand that no one is complaining about "a 7 yard completion" and that consistency (especially on the short throws) is what sustains drives. At least I hope you do. So I'm not sure whether its just argument for argument sake, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

SnoozerBear;841946665 said:

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So, are you telling me that the DE charged at Maynard, Maynard felt the pressure, and threw the ball right at the DE?

Okay, if true Maynard is much worse than I thought.

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No. I'm not telling you that because that would be ridiculous. I'm telling you that you are flat out unbelievably wrong that the D lineman wasn't bringing any pressure. It's his job.

That guy happened to be right in the way of the pass to the WR which is what Maynard was supposed to throw after a quick glance to the left.

It was a bizarre coincidence unrelated to Maynard's skill. That's why it's strange that posters like you and the OP are harping on it. Your efforts would be best spent on other, more representative throws.

BerlinerBaer;841946672 said:

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No. I'm not telling you that because that would be ridiculous. I'm telling you that you are flat out unbelievably wrong that the D lineman wasn't bringing any pressure. It's his job.

That guy happened to be right in the way of the pass to the WR which is what Maynard was supposed to throw after a quick glance to the left.

It was a bizarre coincidence unrelated to Maynard's skill. That's why it's strange that posters like you and the OP are harping on it. Your efforts would be best spent on other, more representative throws.

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Geez guys, I am having a really hard time believing this has nothing to do with Maynard's skill...

It looks like Maynard saw the DE, wasn't under pressure, but simply threw a low pass. That DE didn't even have to jump (although he did) to make that interception.

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

TarzanaBear;841946587 said:

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My eyes see Keenan Allen making something out of horrible passes. What do your eyes see? What was the last time he hit a receiver in stride?

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Saturday. Keenan streaking 25 yards up the sideline. Keenan on a crossing pattern.

mvargus;841946668 said:

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Instead that interception was caused by.

A) the missed cut block

B) Southern Utah had the right defense in place, so that the DE ended up rushing in to block the throwing lane. Had he been on a stunt he might have pulled himself out of the passing lane.

Sometimes things like this happen, and you shouldn't just blame the QB.

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I get your point, I am done bagging on Maynard today. But even if its a quick 'no look' throw, Maynard did have a look at the passing lane prior to his throw, and threw a low pass. But whatever, its not like we have anyone better lol.

SnoozerBear;841946683 said:

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I get your point, I am done bagging on Maynard today. But even if its a quick 'no look' throw, Maynard did have a look at the passing lane prior to his throw, and threw a low pass. But whatever, its not like we have anyone better lol.

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I think we all agree that Tyndall whiffing on the block set up the DE to be in position to make the play. No question. But as Snoozer's screen capture shots show, Maynard hadn't even begun to wind up when he saw the DE 2-3 yards past the line of scrimmage. Maynard threw it anyway. It tells me that Maynard can't process the hundreds of inputs happening around him as a play evolves. Good QBs have a sixth sense for what is happening around them, can process it all simulataneously in real-time and make nearly instantaneous decicisons in response. It's like how a computer can process varying numbers of commands all at once. Good computers can process many simultaneous commands. Bad ones, far less. It's in the processing of all of that info that made the difference in less than a second to throw the ball at the DE instead of pulling it down. Maynard's inability to see/feel open receivers beyond the primary receiver is symptomatic of that as well.

socaliganbear;841946625 said:

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I agree with there being MUCH bigger issues than his numbers right now. But let's hold off on evaluating his stats till he's played more than a MWC team who just lost to USF at home, and some FCS team.

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That is fine, but then let's at least hold off on the attacks until he actually has a bad game/bad stats.

Those who hate him may get their wish . Just like those who wanted Riley injured in 2010 got their wish. I am sure that if he does have a bad game they will cheer and come back here happy and gloating.

calumnus;841946695 said:

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That is fine, but then let's at least hold off on the attacks until he actually has a bad game/bad stats.

Those who hate him may get their wish . Just like those who wanted Riley injured in 2010 got their wish. I am sure that if he does have a bad game they will cheer and come back here happy and gloating.

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If we pretend that last year didn't happen, then yes, we can wait till he has a bad game(s) to truly evaluate him. Not that anyone should attack him regardless.

Though saying he's just not that good isn't much of an attack. Mostly opinion.

BearLineman;841946612 said:

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Remember the good times...when Kyle Boller threw the ball too hard for Division 1 receivers to catch yet lanky little high school kids pulled them down at will when he was in high school....

We will look back on this and laugh. Remember when Maynard repeatedly threw shitty passes his receivers damn near died to catch...wait remember when he was at Buffalo, oh yeah nobody does...ok, remember when he was throwing nerf footballs to KA in the living room...****, i dont know what my point is other than Maynard is shitty. Keep throwing up his stats but i choose to watch him play and see his emotions and reactions. A decent QB guves a **** and i dont see Maynard giving a **** about anything except his bicep. By the way, Cal Strength and Conditioning Staff do not approve of his biceps.

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exactly

socaliganbear;841946698 said:

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If we pretend that last year didn't happen, then yes, we can wait till he has a bad game(s) to truly evaluate him. Not that anyone should attack him regardless.

Though saying he's just not that good isn't much of am attack. Mostly opinion.

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If you pretend only his bad games last year happened and not his good games (like Big Game), sure. But overall, we agree--"isn't that good" is a fair evaluation and people should not attack him regardless.

TheSouseFamily;841946689 said:

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I think we all agree that Tyndall whiffing on the block set up the DE to be in position to make the play. No question. But as Snoozer's screen capture shots show, Maynard hadn't even begun to wind up when he saw the DE 2-3 yards past the line of scrimmage. Maynard threw it anyway. It tells me that Maynard can't process the hundreds of inputs happening around him as a play evolves. Good QBs have a sixth sense for what is happening around them, can process it all simulataneously in real-time and make nearly instantaneous decicisons in response. It's like how a computer can process varying numbers of commands all at once. Good computers can process many simultaneous commands. Bad ones, far less. It's in the processing of all of that info that made the difference in less than a second to throw the ball at the DE instead of pulling it down. Maynard's inability to see/feel open receivers beyond the primary receiver is symptomatic of that as well.

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Maynard's winding up when it's not clear that the DE isn't taken out. Tyndall did slow the DE a bit since the DE is trying to avoid Tyndall on the ground before the ball leaves Maynard's hand. But the DE is only completely clear when the ball's already out. Not to mention the time that elapses in all those screens is less than a second since the timestamp reads 1:33 in all 4 screens. You're acting like he had all day to decide and throw when it wasn't the case.

calumnus;841946716 said:

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If you pretend only his bad games last year happened and not his good games (like Big Game), sure. But overall, we agree--"isn't that good" is a fair evaluation and people should not attack him regardless.

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I pretend the entire year happened. Including Texas.

TheSouseFamily;841946689 said:

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I think we all agree that Tyndall whiffing on the block set up the DE to be in position to make the play. No question. But as Snoozer's screen capture shots show, Maynard hadn't even begun to wind up when he saw the DE 2-3 yards past the line of scrimmage. Maynard threw it anyway. It tells me that Maynard can't process the hundreds of inputs happening around him as a play evolves. Good QBs have a sixth sense for what is happening around them, can process it all simulataneously in real-time and make nearly instantaneous decicisons in response. It's like how a computer can process varying numbers of commands all at once. Good computers can process many simultaneous commands. Bad ones, far less. It's in the processing of all of that info that made the difference in less than a second to throw the ball at the DE instead of pulling it down. Maynard's inability to see/feel open receivers beyond the primary receiver is symptomatic of that as well.

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1st, great play by the DE, hands down.
2nd, bad whiff by Tyndall.
3rd, Most QB's would've thrown this ball because you are taught to trust your lineman making their assignments and your receivers to run the right route so you can anticipate the throwing lane and where they'll be.

Let me be more specific and spell it out for you, UCB....I'm talking about the frustration of Maynard (and recent Cal QBs of the past) failing to hit those 7-yard FLARE passes to running backs.....the type where the RB is all alone behind the line of scrimmage and looks to make an easy 5-15 yards upon completion.....the type of pass that Southern Utah scored a couple TDs against us. We often fail at these on third down or key situations---frankly, there is no excuse why we continue to miss those easy passes.
Maynard made a couple of excellent throws downfield for key gains.....again, not sure
why those little flares are (and have been) so difficult for us. Hope this helps clarify for you.....didn't know my original statement would be so hard to figure out.

calumnus;841946716 said:

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If you pretend only his bad games last year happened and not his good games (like Big Game), sure. But overall, we agree--"isn't that good" is a fair evaluation and people should not attack him regardless.

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Holy flip flops Batman!

There are plenty of problems to go around.....and frankly, I don't blame Maynard....I blame the coaching staff, starting at the top. [can't resist one comment though---Maynard has had plenty of time to throw this year....he still remains indecisive, throws late or inaccurately, etc. This is not the fault of the offensive line. They may not yet be stellar run blockers, but they have protected Maynard well]

SnoozerBear;841946680 said:

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Geez guys, I am having a really hard time believing this has nothing to do with Maynard's skill...

It looks like Maynard saw the DE, wasn't under pressure, but simply threw a low pass. That DE didn't even have to jump (although he did) to make that interception.

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

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I watched that play again and yes Maynard saw the DE, but if you goto to ~1:39-1:40 you see the DE falling/losing balance and Maynard has a clear shot to Bigelow... but hopefully he learns from that and knows to pull it down

^ Actually I think does learn from this and if you watch at the 2:42 mark, the pass to Stevens, he tries to lob it over the DE which resulted in an over thrown pass... also not sure why Stevens didn't give the DE a quick chip block

GoBears58;841946724 said:

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Holy flip flops Batman!

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Calumus has been fairly consistent as the defender of players being piled on, even though his personal opinion maybe similar. He went to bat for Ayoob, Longshore, (not so much Riley), and now Maynard on this board and previously the scout board.

I suppose the message he is trying to convey is, even though Cal's QB is playing poorly, it's never as bad as it seems, and that emotionalism in a fan base can often times make reality 'feel' 2X worse than what it actually is.

Even in the play X play pictures posted on this board there are many perceptions that can be taken. But the pictures themselves don't tell all of the story--the time it takes a defender to run 3 yards to intercept the ball from Maynards hand. If the average DL runs the 40 in 5.00 flat, how long does that leave Maynard to execute a decision? Albeit not very long, most likely a couple blinks of the eye.

But I'm of the crowd where I'd like to see Maynard play more consistent. And I don't believe his stats are a very good description of how he has played.

If we go in with Maynard, I hope that we can leave with Maynard. But if he is not getting the job done, than we need to get someone else in there who can, plain and simple.

UCBerkGrad;841946509 said:

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The Maynard bashing is growing tiresome. This team's problems are not with Maynard. O-line and defense are the real issues.

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Yep. I'm learning to ignore the Maynard bashing. There is no point arguing with someone who doesn't understand the game.

grandmastapoop;841946755 said:

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Yep. I'm learning to ignore the Maynard bashing. There is no point arguing with someone who doesn't understand the game.

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Feel free to expound on your knowledge of the situation so that we know where you're coming from.

Calntheplay;841946756 said:

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Feel free to expound on your knowledge of the situation so that we know where you're coming from.

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See your last post about calumnus.

Maynard isn't as bad as people think. Our problems are certainly not limited to him. I don't know why he's such a lightning rod. He's decent. Not great, not horrible. Worse QBs have done extremely well in college football when the team around them is better. Everything has to be so black and white here. "MAYNARD SUCKZZZZZZ!" When someone says, "He doesn't suck, he's not the whole problem, he's decent," they respond, "SUNSHINE PUMPER IDIOT MAYNARD SUCKS YOU SUCK!"

My point to him is - why waste your time with that?

The QB of a struggling team will always be a lightning rod, and his backup will be the most popular player on the team, in the eyes of fans who fail to see the forest from the trees.