Last year, the Univ. of Hawaii bought out the remaining year of a $1.1M per year contract for head coach Greg McMackin for $600,000.

What kind of deal could we get for him not having to work the remainder of his contract? If we can get a reasonable cents on the dollar deal, I bet it's feasible esp. if the wealthy alums are already talking.

How is Norm Chow doing at UH?

beelzebear;841965000 said:

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How is Norm Chow doing at UH?

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Bad.
http://espn.go.com/college-football/team/schedule/_/id/62/hawaii-warriors

beelzebear;841965000 said:

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How is Norm Chow doing at UH?

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Keep Tedford.

:tedford

beelzebear;841965000 said:

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How is Norm Chow doing at UH?

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Your point is to show that it would be a mistake? Hopefully it is to show that we should be very careful who the next guy will be.

Re: Hawaii, a completely different situation.

Hawaii fans had no business blowing this guy out. In the wake of that great June Jones Sugar Bowl season (2005), McMackin had 4 competitive seasons, and even a WAC title. Then he goes 6-7 last year and they buy him out before his final year. Like they have such lofty expectations because June Jones had that once in a lifetime special season?

Us, we pay a coach $2.3M, plus incentives, and we just spent $321M in facilities. We can't afford not to fire Tedford now -- we've got too much invested to continue being lead down the crapper like this. He's incorrigible and refuses to acknowledge fundamental flaws in his coaching at this point. He's never once volunteered that any of this is coaching and seems to have built a fortress to defend his inexplicable decisions.

LethalFang;841965007 said:

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Bad.
http://espn.go.com/college-football/team/schedule/_/id/62/hawaii-warriors

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Other than the coach taking the blame, sounds a lot like us....

Chow takes the blame
POSTED: 01:30 a.m. HST, Sep 30, 2012
StarAdvertiser.com

By Stephen Tsai

associated PressHawaii coach Norm Chow shook hands with Brigham Young coach Bronco Mendenhall on Friday.

Hawaii coach Norm Chow said he accepts the blame and criticism for the Warriors' 1-3 start, including a 47-0 road loss against Brigham Young on Friday.

"As the head coach, I'm the one who has the big responsibility," Chow said. "I'm the boss. I'm taking responsibility. It's not the players. The players have worked too hard."

Chow recalled his first year as Southern California's offensive coordinator.

"We went 6-7, and we were taking a licking from (critics)," Chow said. "Our time will come."

Against BYU, the Warriors managed 149 yards in total offense and were never in scoring position in 14 drives.

Chow said he does not plan any major changes to the offensive strategy. He also reconfirmed his commitment to No. 1 quarterback Sean Schroeder, who was 12-for-27 for 108 yards.

"No question," Chow said. "He's my guy. I don't change quarterbacks when we decide on a quarterback. Things would have to go really south."

There is concern about the Warriors' overall health. Right guard Dave Lefotu left BYU with an injury to his right elbow. He wore a sling after the game. Right tackle Sean Shigematsu also was sidelined with an injury.

Chow said Chauncy Winchester-Makainai is Lefotu's immediate replacement. If Shigematsu is unavailable, Mike Milovale, who made his first UH start at left guard, will move to right tackle. Kapua Sai would play left guard.

The Warriors will learn today about the conditions of defensive linemen Geordon Hanohano, Siasau Matagiese and Marcus Malepeai. Hanohano and Matagiese were carted off the field with suspected neck injuries. X-rays were negative. Matagiese, who was wearing a neck guard after the game, might return as early as Saturday's road game against San Diego State. Hanohano might need a longer recovery period.

Malepeai, who has a sprained knee, filled in at defensive tackle.

The Warriors employ two defensive tackles one at the nose, the other between an offense's guard and tackle in their base defense. Haku Correa is the only healthy true defensive tackle on the depth chart. He played the final 66 defensive snaps.

Chow said Mike Andrade, who is recovering from a variety of ailments, might be promoted to the rotation. Backup center Kody Afusia, who had auditioned at defensive tackle, might return there. Defensive end Beau Yap, the team's best edge rusher, played defensive tackle in the final three quarters against BYU. Chow said Yap might have an expanded role there.

There also is a possibility the Warriors will play more three-man fronts. That scheme already is part of the defensive menu.

"We're not going to make any dramatic changes," Chow said. "We're going to keep working."

The Warriors returned to Honolulu on Saturday afternoon. Chow, defensive coordinator Thom Kaumeyer and defensive line coach Lewis Powell remained on the mainland to recruit.

UH is seeking so-called playmakers and linemen.

The Warriors will resume practicing on Monday.

"We're not going to sit around moping," Chow said. "Like I said, it's a big-boy business. We're not going to feel sorry for ourselves. It's time to get ready for the next one."

Fact of the matter is, every HC hire in CFB is a risk.

Beyond that, I simply didn't know how Norm was doing.

Regarding different situation, you could say the same about Cal but for other reason; state budget crisis, different academic standards (regardless if applicable to FB), stadium renovation, etc.

It's pointless to cover for Tedford but one reason why Gladstone hired Tedford was the academic game plan. Tedford actually considered the context of Cal.

The next guy is going to have to deal with that as well...and it won't be a guy like Petrino.

Indeed, need to be very careful.

KoreAmBear;841965015 said:

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Your point is to show that it would be a mistake? Hopefully it is to show that we should be very careful who the next guy will be.

Re: Hawaii, a completely different situation.

Hawaii fans had no business blowing this guy out. In the wake of that great June Jones Sugar Bowl season (2005), McMackin had 4 competitive seasons, and even a WAC title. Then he goes 6-7 last year and they buy him out before his final year. Like they have such lofty expectations because June Jones had that once in a lifetime special season?

Us, we pay a coach $2.3M, plus incentives, and we just spent $321M in facilities. We can't afford not to fire Tedford now -- we've got too much invested to continue being lead down the crapper like this. He's incorrigible and refuses to acknowledge fundamental flaws in his coaching at this point. He's never once volunteered that any of this is coaching and seems to have built a fortress to defend his inexplicable decisions.

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So you can understand it KAB...imagine a pile of Top Dogs higher than the Transamerica building.

As in US, THE FANS? I say this kind of jokingly, but kind of not.

What would you donate, if you knew your donation would go directly to buying Ted out, and knowing that we could get a really good coach in his place?

I hate when people suggest they wont go to the games because they don't want to support Tedford- because that only hurts our boys playing. We all support and love them.

So let's say instead 30,000 fans donate 50$ to the 'let JT move on fund'. That's 1.5 mil, and his buyout for a year. After the ASU loss- Id throw down a 50 spot easy.

How about after this season, a buyout of 1 year of salary at $2.3M so that he forgo the rest of his contract (2013, 2014, 2015)? He would be free to coach anywhere else. Would JT take that? For those that know the customary standard for buyouts, is that a reasonable amount under the facts and circumstances? So basically JT would be getting $2.3M to do nothing whereas he could get $6.9M and more in incentives to be a lame duck coach for 3 years, get criticized, hated and ridiculed. I think for the sake of his health and sanity, it would be worth it to him. Although lately I can't say rational decisions are his forte (no pun intended).

It will all play out soon. The stories of this stretch of Cal history will become lore. Hope we score big!

beelzebear;841965000 said:

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How is Norm Chow doing at UH?

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How Chow is doing is completely irrelevant and just deflects the issue.

KoreAmBear;841965042 said:

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How about after this season, a buyout of 1 year of salary at $2.3M so that he forgo the rest of his contract (2013, 2014, 2015)? He would be free to coach anywhere else. Would JT take that? For those that know the customary standard for buyouts, is that a reasonable amount under the facts and circumstances? So basically JT would be getting $2.3M to do nothing whereas he could get $6.9M...

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JT won't make anything close to $2.3M/yr again. Ever. $4.6M is a lot to walk away from. Maybe allow him to "retire" in exchange for a one time payment ~ $4M?

oursdor;841965116 said:

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JT won't make anything close to $2.3M/yr again. Ever. $4.6M is a lot to walk away from. Maybe allow him to "retire" in exchange for a one time payment ~ $4M?

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Yah with McMackin at Hawaii getting 600K out of 1.1M, seems like the going rate would be at around 60% of the remaining contract. That's $4,140,000. You would think to not have to go through the thankless remaining 3 years, he would consider it. Could we raise this kind of money?

KoreAmBear;841965015 said:

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Your point is to show that it would be a mistake? Hopefully it is to show that we should be very careful who the next guy will be.

Re: Hawaii, a completely different situation.

Hawaii fans had no business blowing this guy out. In the wake of that great June Jones Sugar Bowl season (2005), McMackin had 4 competitive seasons, and even a WAC title. Then he goes 6-7 last year and they buy him out before his final year. Like they have such lofty expectations because June Jones had that once in a lifetime special season?

Us, we pay a coach $2.3M, plus incentives, and we just spent $321M in facilities. We can't afford not to fire Tedford now -- we've got too much invested to continue being lead down the crapper like this. He's incorrigible and refuses to acknowledge fundamental flaws in his coaching at this point. He's never once volunteered that any of this is coaching and seems to have built a fortress to defend his inexplicable decisions.

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"He is incorrigible and refuses to acknowledge fundamental flaws in his coaching" Completely wrong - I know him have heard him speak numerous times at the Grid Club and he has been extremely upfront when discussing coaching mistakes and or the reasons behind a particular decision. He has absolutely taken the blame for penalties that has happened and specific calls that were not executed. Its entertaining to read a variety of opinions - some informed, but unfortunately many uniformed and off base. Contrary to the vast majority of BI readers, the ESP holders and key donors while very dissapointed with this season's results, are still in his court and will be giving him one more year regardless of this season's final results.

4thGenCal;841965186 said:

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"He is incorrigible and refuses to acknowledge fundamental flaws in his coaching" Completely wrong - I know him have heard him speak numerous times at the Grid Club and he has been extremely upfront when discussing coaching mistakes and or the reasons behind a particular decision. He has absolutely taken the blame for penalties that has happened and specific calls that were not executed. Its entertaining to read a variety of opinions - some informed, but unfortunately many uniformed and off base. Contrary to the vast majority of BI readers, the ESP holders and key donors while very dissapointed with this season's results, are still in his court and will be giving him one more year regardless of this season's final results.

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And have all decided to come to BI for the announcement.Right.

GoldenYears;841965193 said:

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I couldn't care less what he says to the Grid Club or any other group of people who have clamored to keep him employed well past his sell-by date. And I think the majority are no longer in his court. It's all a matter of money at this point.

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Precisely, "its all a matter of money at this point" and the people with the money are for the most part loyal and respect his body of work. Our HC will get one more year, you can count on it.

JT would have an obligation to actively find another job and mitigate his damages. Thus, a dollar for dollar offset from his new job's income. I don't see JT having a problem landing a job as a offensive coordinator, he is very well respected in the coaching community. This is why a settlement agreement typically is negotiated at something amount under the actual future salary amount, and often without an obligation to mitigate damages.

4thGenCal;841965210 said:

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Precisely, "its all a matter of money at this point" and the people with the money are for the most part loyal and respect his body of work. Our HC will get one more year, you can count on it.

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Wow, these people are even dumber than Tedford. There's no hope for us after all.

4thGenCal;841965210 said:

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Our HC will get one more year, you can count on it.

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Not if Cal ends up 2-10 or 3-9 for the season, which is a distinct possibility. Consider him gone at that point.

KoreAmBear;841964989 said:

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Last year, the Univ. of Hawaii bought out the remaining year of a $1.1M per year contract for head coach Greg McMackin for $600,000.

What kind of deal could we get for him not having to work the remainder of his contract? If we can get a reasonable cents on the dollar deal, I bet it's feasible esp. if the wealthy alums are already talking.

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In answer to your question, sometimes there are buyout provisions written into these contracts, but usually not. In a followup post below, you suggested one year's salary. No, it's usually more than that.

He has three years left after this? It would probably take a lump sum of about two years, I'm guessing. It would be negotiated. Definitely more that one year's worth of $$$ to buy out three years, but definitely less than the full amount. Maybe 1 1/2 years.

4thGenCal;841965186 said:

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"He is incorrigible and refuses to acknowledge fundamental flaws in his coaching" Completely wrong - I know him have heard him speak numerous times at the Grid Club and he has been extremely upfront when discussing coaching mistakes and or the reasons behind a particular decision. He has absolutely taken the blame for penalties that has happened and specific calls that were not executed. Its entertaining to read a variety of opinions - some informed, but unfortunately many uniformed and off base. Contrary to the vast majority of BI readers, the ESP holders and key donors while very dissapointed with this season's results, are still in his court and will be giving him one more year regardless of this season's final results.

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How many times are you going to say this. They will be the only ones in the stands. How come he accepts full responsibility to your so called Grid Club, but never says it publicly. Huh??? Hhow come?? If we are mis-informed it is because no one says crap about what is going on. Only excuses. So he leaves us to speculate. Go home junior!!

I can understand why ESP and big donors would be in Tedford's corner: they don't care enough to even go to games. The ESP section has been empty at every game I've seen. With big donors like this, why would they care if Tedford puts out a quality team?

4thGenCal;841965186 said:

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"He is incorrigible and refuses to acknowledge fundamental flaws in his coaching" Completely wrong - I know him have heard him speak numerous times at the Grid Club and he has been extremely upfront when discussing coaching mistakes and or the reasons behind a particular decision. He has absolutely taken the blame for penalties that has happened and specific calls that were not executed. Its entertaining to read a variety of opinions - some informed, but unfortunately many uniformed and off base. Contrary to the vast majority of BI readers, the ESP holders and key donors while very dissapointed with this season's results, are still in his court and will be giving him one more year regardless of this season's final results.

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Speak for yourself. I'm a ESP donor, one that goes to every home game, and I don't share your opinions. Of course, perhaps it's only the 6-figure+ donors (such as yourself no doubt) that count. Even among those, my anecdotal evidence makes me skeptical about your assertions of unwavering support for JT.

JT sometimes admits small things are wrong, especially when he thinks he is fixing it. He does not admit when vast, systemic things are wrong. Of course few do. But then, few are in his position, and it's fair to demand better.

wifeisafurd;841965217 said:

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JT would have an obligation to actively find another job and mitigate his damages. Thus, a dollar for dollar offset from his new job's income. I don't see JT having a problem landing a job as a offensive coordinator, he is very well respected in the coaching community. This is why a settlement agreement typically is negotiated at something amount under the actual future salary amount, and often without an obligation to mitigate damages.

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You're confusing a breach by Cal where JT would assert damages on his contract and a corresponding duty to mitigate them with another job.

A buyout is exactly a settlement, as you say. There's no one in their right mind who would in their settlement agreement, offset their settlement proceeds with another job. A buyout/settlement is not a negotiation for damages (which implies a breach of contract). It's just an agreed price to forgo the mutual obligations of the current contract. The quid pro quo (or consideration as they call it) is that JT gets money up front and does not have to work for it, and in exchange Cal gets to discount the full amount for cents on the dollar and JT will have to leave.

calumnus;841965016 said:

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Other than the coach taking the blame, sounds a lot like us....

Chow takes the blame

Hawaii coach Norm Chow said he accepts the blame — and criticism — for the Warriors' 1-3 start, including a 47-0 road loss against Brigham Young on Friday.

"As the head coach, I'm the one who has the big responsibility," Chow said. "I'm the boss. I'm taking responsibility. It's not the players. The players have worked too hard."

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Well - other than the coach taking the blame ...

That is the WHOLE THING for me. I have actually NEVER heard Tedford take personal responsibility for the product on the field. As things turned sour in 2007 - he immediately started throwing others under the bus. And, it just keeps getting worse and worse.

This weekend, when asks questions about his own performance - his standard answers were ...

1) To say "I don't understand the question" (this is just awesome)

2) To blame some assistant coach who "controls" that aspect of the game (i.e. the Bigelow situation)

3) To blame the kids (always a personal favorite of mine)

4) To go for all all-inclusive ... "it wasn't part of the scheme" ... or "the match-ups weren't right" (i.e. the Avery situation)

I would HATE to work for this guy - someone who immediately blames those below him in the organization that are making probably 10%-15% of what he makes in salary.

At least let's give Norm Chow credit for accepting responsibility...

Furthermore, by constantly deflecting blame away from himself, what is he really teaching the student-athletes at the University? Is this really what we want taught? There is far too much of this in our society anyway.

Let's also give credit to Chip Kelly - who after his first game as HC apologized to the fans and even re-funded one fan's expenses to travel to the game. How far opposite the spectrum is this type of behavior from Tedford's? People are always talking about JT being such a great "stand up" guy, a good role model for the students, a man with great integrity.

I call absolute BS on all of that. Let's see him stand up like a man and take some personal responsibility. Otherwise, he is someone I don't want my teenage sons emulating ... at all.

slider643;841965273 said:

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I can understand why ESP and big donors would be in Tedford's corner: they don't care enough to even go to games. The ESP section has been empty at every game I've seen. With big donors like this, why would they care if Tedford puts out a quality team?

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On the ESP site you can see each available and sold seat in those sections. With a high-resolution image taken from the student section you could probably figure out what percentage of seats are left empty vs unsold.

Price and terms.
Consider it part of the stadium expense. He gets the settlement over 20 yrs.
It is doable.

KoreAmBear;841965042 said:

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How about after this season, a buyout of 1 year of salary at $2.3M so that he forgo the rest of his contract (2013, 2014, 2015)? He would be free to coach anywhere else. Would JT take that? For those that know the customary standard for buyouts, is that a reasonable amount under the facts and circumstances? So basically JT would be getting $2.3M to do nothing whereas he could get $6.9M and more in incentives to be a lame duck coach for 3 years, get criticized, hated and ridiculed. I think for the sake of his health and sanity, it would be worth it to him. Although lately I can't say rational decisions are his forte (no pun intended).

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Maybe we can get JT to have a pow wow with Tsuyoshi Nishioka, formerly of the Twins, and have Nishioka convince JT to do the honorable thing!

What has he done to fix the problems? Well, judging from the product on the field either:

A. Nothing
B. Something that has been a dismal failure

Only the most pig-headed, stupid coach doesn't take responsibility for his team's play. It's what they do about it that counts. Cal football is getting worse not better.

This is what makes hiring a new coach tough. Most of them sound great and give a great job interview and can talk to groups and impress. That really doesn't matter. The quality of football is what matters and in Cal's/Tedford's case it sucks. If he gets another year because the folks with the money think he can turn it around (based on what he has told them) they are nuts.

jyamada;841965344 said:

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Maybe we can get JT to have a pow wow with Tsuyoshi Nishioka, formerly of the Twins, and have Nishioka convince JT to do the honorable thing!

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afraid to google him.. he didn't commit seppuku, right?

BearyWhite;841965449 said:

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afraid to google him.. he didn't commit seppuku, right?

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LOL.......nah, but google him anyway!

No point in accepting 2 years over 20 if he can get 3 years over three. A settlement would have to be a lump sum.

4thGenCal;841965210 said:

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Precisely, "its all a matter of money at this point" and the people with the money are for the most part loyal and respect his body of work. Our HC will get one more year, you can count on it.

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"loyal and respect his body of work"

Blind loyalty and an ignoring of recent history. Is that what made these people rich? Probably not. So why follow that here?

Still mystified by all the talk of integrity and loyalty when Tedford has squeezed the University for every dime he could - including $500k for this "loyalty" for sticking around for the facilities. That's great negotiating by his agent (top performer in the program) and good for Tedford but spare me the "loyalty" crap.

Recall reading in Reuters that when he signed his first big contract (2004?), Tedford was the 2nd highest paid coach and made just less than Nick Saban. Imagine that, Tedford got Nick Saban money - dare I say Tedford is no Saban.

Based on this track record, I expect Mr. Loyalty's agent to squeeze every dime out of the University during buyout negotiations. Just hope someone can make it happen - good riddance.