tommie317;841983724 said:

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Bill Walsh 49ers to furd

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That is not quite true Tommie.....after he quit the Niners, he became a broadcaster for NBC for 3-4 years....so he probably missed the game and wanted to go to a friendly confine...but he didn't quit the 49ers to go to the Furd, that was 4 years after.

some of us know him post Cal days...

LessMilesMoreTedford;841983215 said:

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I'm sure Rivera would be a good cultural fit. But his teams in Carolina are so bad that I wonder about his gameplanning and in-game decisions, and that's not something you want to wonder about when making a coaching change.

At least Carroll had a few winning seasons.

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+1

If people have been frustrated at Tedford's in-game decisions, they'd be downright ANGRY at Rivera. He's one of the worst in-game coaches in the NFL.

tommie317;841983724 said:

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Bill Walsh 49ers to furd

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That is why specifically included "retired" since Walsh retired from coaching in early 1989 after Super Bowl XXIII and was an announcer for NBC before taking the Stanford job in 1992, which he viewed as a semi-retirement position where he could be a "professor of football" on the Stanford campus and train young coaches (like Tom Holmoe) and not have to do recruiting visits, etc.

I dont understand why we would want Ron Rivera. He is a name that has been tossed around frequently on this board for JT replacements.

Is it just because he is a Cal alum?

the_purple_drank;841983885 said:

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I like the Rivera hiring over Tedford right now. But I'd like it more if he put together a great staff.

When Carroll was hired at USC, he pretty much had similar pedigrees that Rivera does now: rough NFL stint, defensive coach, rah-rah guy, etc. But Carroll put together a monster staff that was both credible (Chow, Polamalu, Orgeron, Davis, Holt) and young (Kiffin, Sarkisian, Seto). Even though Chow didn't recruit, guys like Orgeron, Davis, Holt, Kiffin, and Walker had the charisma to do it well.

That's the key to winning games. For a long period of time, while guys like Chow and Orgeron left, Carroll would hire credible guys to replace them like Norton.

If Rivera can somehow put together a staff with a similar makeup, I don't think he'd be unsuccessful.

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Agreed--the staff hiring would make all the difference.

I'll admist I haven't watched enough of Carolina but I'm wary of going this route because I'm wondering if he's just a great coordinator but doesn't have head coaching chops.

The key to hiring a great candidate is find guys who have the chops. (Yes, I know it's obvious, but too many decision making people don't know what the "it" factor is and how to recognize it.)

I'm more inclined to look at those two Mac guys having success than retreads or coordinators. However, it's really about understanding if someone has the leadership, motivaitional, and organizational qualities.

calumnus;841983901 said:

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That is why specifically included "retired" since Walsh retired from coaching in early 1989 after Super Bowl XXIII and was an announcer for NBC before taking the Stanford job in 1992, which he viewed as a semi-retirement position where he could be a "professor of football" on the Stanford campus and train young coaches (like Tom Holmoe) and not have to do recruiting visits, etc.

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If I remember correctly, Bill Walsh had another agenda when he returned to the 'furd. He was bidding on buying into an NFL team (possibly and expansion team, I just don't remember the details) and was assembling his coaching staff to get experience working together and then be transplanted to his new team. When that didn't pan out, he pretty much lost interest and was basically an absentee head coach in Palo Alto. Rumor had it that he rarely had contact with the players.

CalFan4Ever;841983141 said:

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So did Pete Carroll.

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and Nick Saban

Valleyblue;841983951 said:

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If I remember correctly, Bill Walsh had another agenda when he returned to the 'furd. He was bidding on buying into an NFL team (possibly and expansion team, I just don't remember the details) and was assembling his coaching staff to get experience working together and then be transplanted to his new team. When that didn't pan out, he pretty much lost interest and was basically an absentee head coach in Palo Alto. Rumor had it that he rarely had contact with the players.

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The point is, a Super Bowl winning coach didn't just quit the Niners for the Stanford job.

the_purple_drank;841983885 said:

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I like the Rivera hiring over Tedford right now. But I'd like it more if he put together a great staff.

When Carroll was hired at USC, he pretty much had similar pedigrees that Rivera does now: rough NFL stint, defensive coach, rah-rah guy, etc. But Carroll put together a monster staff that was both credible (Chow, Polamalu, Orgeron, Davis, Holt) and young (Kiffin, Sarkisian, Seto). Even though Chow didn't recruit, guys like Orgeron, Davis, Holt, Kiffin, and Walker had the charisma to do it well.

That's the key to winning games. For a long period of time, while guys like Chow and Orgeron left, Carroll would hire credible guys to replace them like Norton.

If Rivera can somehow put together a staff with a similar makeup, I don't think he'd be unsuccessful.

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You've captured some of the similarities between Carroll and Rivera, but Carroll's NFL tenure was much better than Rivera's up to this point. And Rivera's team's trajectory is very much on the downward trend. He has not, to this point, shown that he can be a successful football head coach.

Also, out of curiousity, I looked up head coaches (that I could find/think of) who went from NFL to college, but had no previous college head coaching experience. Clearly, Pete Carroll is an outlier.

Al Groh (59-54), Dave Wanndstedt (42-31), Bill Callahan (27-22), June Jones (103-73).

I see a few reasons why Rivera deserves serious consideration:

1) He was a player when I was a student. I did not know him personally but I know people who did and I have never heard anything but positives about his character.
2) He loves Cal. He would be committed to the program and would be much more likely to stay if he was successful than a non-alumni. Alumni connection has got to help with recruiting.
3) MAJOR NFL credibility as a player and defensive coach. Likely a big plus on recruiting players and staff.
4) If he is available he will likely still be getting paid by the panthers which softens the blow of any JT payout and allows us to fund some higher assistant coach salaries.
5) He obviously was a great assistant coach in the NFL. Whether he is the best HC candidate available depends on the other candidates, but he has a lot of pluses most won't have.

oldblue83;841984416 said:

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I see a few reasons why Rivera deserves serious consideration:

1) He was a player when I was a student. I did not know him personally but I know people who did and I have never heard anything but positives about his character.
2) He loves Cal. He would be committed to the program and would be much more likely to stay if he was successful than a non-alumni. Alumni connection has got to help with recruiting.
3) MAJOR NFL credibility as a player and defensive coach. Likely a big plus on recruiting players and staff.
[COLOR="Blue"]4) If he is available he will likely still be getting paid by the panthers which softens the blow of any JT payout and allows us to fund some higher assistant coach salaries.[/COLOR]
5) He obviously was a great assistant coach in the NFL. Whether he is the best HC candidate available depends on the other candidates, but he has a lot of pluses most won't have.

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If that scenario is even remotely possible, that's the deal clincher for me.

the_purple_drank;841984574 said:

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Carroll went took a Patriots team that was 2 years removed from the Super Bowl, and went 8-8 and 6-10. That's not 'positive trajectory.' When USC hired him, he was their fifth choice (behind Erickson, Franchione, Bellotti, and Pinkel, at least), and their fans were not at all happy wit the result.

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Untrue. Carroll went 10-6, 9-7, and 8-8 at New England, making the playoffs twice. Agree that Carroll was not a popular choice among USC fans. But really, the judgment of USC fans should be severely called into question, given their choice in university.

the_purple_drank;841984574 said:

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What made Carroll successful is that he put together the best staff in the country. Since he's been at USC, 6 of his assistants (Chow, Orgeron, Kiffin, Sarkisian, Walker, and Holt) have gone on to become head coaches at D1 programs. A 7th (Seto) was set to become head coach at UCLA until their alums understandably threw up a tantrum given his USC ties.

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Wha???? I would draw the exact opposite conclusion from historical results. Despite strong turnover among his staff, Carroll's team continued to be successful. And none of his assistants have done anything of significance after leaving USC. Holt flamed out at UW (I think Baylor just scored another touchdown in the Alamo Bowl). Chow is doing very poorly as HC. Book is still unwritten on Sarkisian and Kiffin. I'd argue that his assitants have become HCs because they were perceived to be good based upon strong results of the program

Based upon your logic, Bill Belichick has only been successful because of the strong assistants he's had under him. I mean, he had Romeo Crennel, Josh McDaniels, Charlie Weis, and Eric Mangini working under him in the past.

I'm not saying that assitants don't matter...but I think you're severely overrating their significance.

the_purple_drank;841984574 said:

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What made Carroll successful is that he put together the best staff in the country. Since he's been at USC, 6 of his assistants (Chow, Orgeron, Kiffin, Sarkisian, Walker, and Holt) have gone on to become head coaches at D1 programs. A 7th (Seto) was set to become head coach at UCLA until their alums understandably threw up a tantrum given his USC ties.

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Seeing as Carroll is the constant, this can be intepreted two ways. He has also turned Seattle around. Not to the extent of Harbaugh, but they're a much better team than they were 3 seasons ago.

the_purple_drank;841985128 said:

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You're really arguing for the sake of arguing. The point is that Carroll had a staff that was excellent at all aspects of their jobs. If Rivera can hire a similar staff (IOW, if the administration will give him the money gained from the tv revenue to spend appropriately on his assistants), then I don't doubt that Rivera can be successful.

Carroll wasn't the sole genius that turned USC around. He was a defensive guy who put together solid staffs on both sides of the ball.

PS, if you really think Carroll was taking the Pats in a positive direction, talk to any Pats fan and they'll tell you how worthless Carroll was.

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First of all, if you make a factually incorrect statement (omitting Pete Carroll's 10-6 season with the Patriots), then I will call you out on it. I never said the Patriots were on the right track with Carroll, but Carroll's NFL record is much better than Rivera's to this point. In fact, Rivera's track record as a head coach has been downright poor. I don't see how you can expect success from Rivera if he were Cal's head coach.

Secondly, I don't see how your point that Carroll had an excellent staff is proven. Which of his staff members, absent Carroll, has demonstrated success?

CalFan4Ever;841983120 said:

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Panthers are 1-5. Think he'd want to come home?

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If he gets fired - of course he would want to come home. But do we want a HC with ZERO college coaching experience, a single losing season(-) of professional experience, and absolutely no indicators that he is a good recruiter, organizer, motivator of 19-year olds, etc..? He is a great guy by every account, but if there is a wholesale change, it has to be for a proven college coach. Even then, there is more to it than getting a "name" (Mike Leach!).

the_purple_drank;841985901 said:

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But Dan2002 thinks that a 20-game sample of NFL games with a team which was coming off as the team with the worst record the year before is good enough to deem Rivera as an awful coach.

You do know that Carroll's worst year at USC since his first year (2009) he didn't have any of those assistants, right?

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When did I say Rivera is an awful coach? He's an awful in-game coach, which I wouldn't expect to change if he went to the college ranks. He should be considered for the Cal HC position, but he'd be low on my list. He did a nice job of turning a laughingstock, one-win Carolina team into a mildly respectable club last year. But this year the team has shown regression.

I don't see any reason to be particularly optimistic about him as a head coach, NFL or college.

I wonder if we'll get a package deal of Rivera as head coach and Ron English as his defensive coordinator. I think Rivera tried to hire English with the Chicago Bears but English turned it down for a promotion to DC at Michigan.

dajo9;841986470 said:

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I wonder if we'll get a package deal of Rivera as head coach and Ron English as his defensive coordinator. I think Rivera tried to hire English with the Chicago Bears but English turned it down for a promotion to DC at Michigan.

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We are not going to be hiring someone who was very successful in the NFL like Belichick .

What is funny is that those who dismiss Rivera because of his record as head coach at Carolina would probably be fine with hiring a successful coordinator from the NFL or another program--someone like Greg Roman or maybe even Ron English...

calumnus;841986611 said:

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We are not going to be hiring someone who was very successful in the NFL like Belichick .

What is funny is that those who dismiss Rivera because of his record as head coach at Carolina would probably be fine with hiring a successful coordinator from the NFL or another program--someone like Greg Roman or maybe even Ron English...

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Actually, Ron English has his own head coaching record at the collegiate level and it isn't good. The momentum he had been building cratered this year, making him a possible DC candidate again.

I think we have about 5-7 good candidates (Rivera, San Jose State guy, Utah State guy, Roman, and a couple others. Hopefully they all get interviewed and a good decision is made. It is fun to identify candidates but it is kind of silly of us to think we know best about a final decision having not sat in the interviewing room and not knowing these guys personally or knowing ourselves what it really takes to be a good head football coach.

Its easy to forget English was a very good recruiter. I hope he gets considered for the Defensive Coordinator position, that maybe his run as a Head Coach at the smaller schools is getting tiresome...
Let's be clear: Rivera is not a candidate as long as he is a NFL Head coach, no matter how many posts we have here, and no matter how many days this thread keeps going!