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caldaehanmingook;841984770 said:

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Twice now, during four years attending Berkeley, I have not been allowed to enter the stadium due to this policy, despite having not consumed any alcohol prior to entering the stadium or having any on my possession at the gate. One of these incidents occurred at Saturday's Big Game, which was to be my last as a student.

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So if 'no drinks' then what did you blow? What was their cutoff?

Or did you just refuse?

caldaehanmingook;841984770 said:

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Hi Cal fans! This is my first post on Bear Insider. I would like to make all of you aware, if you are not already, of a very disturbing stadium policy that is enforced at the Student Gate. The UC Police Department pulls students aside at random, with no reasonable suspicion, to conduct random alcohol tests. Twice now, during four years attending Berkeley, I have not been allowed to enter the stadium due to this policy, despite having not consumed any alcohol prior to entering the stadium or having any on my possession at the gate. One of these incidents occurred at Saturday's Big Game, which was to be my last as a student. I would appreciate hearing other fans' thoughts on this policy, and would hope that we, as Golden Bear faithful, unite and strive to ensure that our team's loyal fans are treated with respect and dignity by stadium staff and police in the future.

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Judging by your username, and at the risk of being labeled a racist (though since I'm half asian I am allowed to be against asians), I'm guessing that having the Korean red-face is your biggest problem. My suggestion would be to take a Pepcid AC before drinking the booze. And if you really weren't drinking the booze,...then,...that's BS!!!

caldaehanmingook;841984810 said:

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I blew .007 the first time (a false positive) and .000 the second time.

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I'm not understanding their policy then? Because if they are holding you out at either of those levels, it's definitely not for being drunk.

Sounds like BS (on their part) to me. What was their reason for refusing entry? Is it only for students under 21? This kind of thing usually borders on violating the 4th Amendment. Do they have some sort of official policy?

caldaehanmingook;841984810 said:

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I blew .007 the first time (a false positive) and .000 the second time.

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This was an alcohol check. That's what you blew. And they didn't let you in?

Does not compute.

I feel like there are some details missing from your story. If you blew a 0 the second time, what reason did they give for not allowing you in?

I don't have many thoughts on this policy since it doesn't affect me. I don't see a major problem with it though, but I'm not a big drinker and take my Cal games stone cold sober, win or lose in the stadium and when watching on TV. The pain makes me feel alive. With the recent alcohol fueled violence at games in the news, I think its a decent idea.

I guess you can get into an argument about freedom and rights, but you are entering a public venue. Maybe one of our lawyers can chime in on this, I'm curious now.

ColoradoBear1;841984818 said:

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I'm not understanding their policy then? Because if they are holding you out at either of those levels, it's definitely not for being drunk.

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i think we are missing a piece of the puzzle. on what grounds did they refuse your entry?

I always just took a pair of glasses, pulled my pants up and looked like a total nerd when walking by them. Worked for me. Then I got tired of that and bought regular tickets so I could get as drunk as I wanted pre-game.

Big C_Cal;841984824 said:

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Sounds like BS (on their part) to me. What was their reason for refusing entry? Is it only for students under 21? This kind of thing usually borders on violating the 4th Amendment. Do they have some sort of official policy?

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It's UC property... if they have rules that are spelled out, it seems OK with me, but I can't find an official alcohol policy anywhere.

Just for comparison, I know Wisconsin has a alcohol policy:

[quote=]"Badger Alcohol Check" requires all students with a prior ejection or citation at a home football game to blow into a portable Breathalyzer test before a game to prove their sobriety before being admitted. Underage students must blow a 0.00 for admittance, while students of legal drinking age need to blow below the legal limit of 0.08. The total number of citations at home football games has decreased in each of the past two years.

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http://students.wisc.edu/alcoholinfo/sanctions.html

The wiskies' policy seem pretty reasonable to me due to the prior offense requirement for testing.

caldaehanmingook;841984770 said:

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Hi Cal fans! This is my first post on Bear Insider. I would like to make all of you aware, if you are not already, of a very disturbing stadium policy that is enforced at the Student Gate. The UC Police Department pulls students aside at random, with no reasonable suspicion, to conduct random alcohol tests. Twice now, during four years attending Berkeley, I have not been allowed to enter the stadium due to this policy, despite having not consumed any alcohol prior to entering the stadium or having any on my possession at the gate. One of these incidents occurred at Saturday's Big Game, which was to be my last as a student. I would appreciate hearing other fans' thoughts on this policy, and would hope that we, as Golden Bear faithful, unite and strive to ensure that our team's loyal fans are treated with respect and dignity by stadium staff and police in the future.

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Wow, things are really getting tight. I remember my first Big Game in 1989 at Stanfurd and remember seeing people rolling full-size kegs through the stands. Times have surely changed.

No reasonable suspicion needed because the ticket is a contract to enter the stadium, therefore entry is subject to the conditions of the University's policies. For example, we are all searched for the presence of alcohol or acceptable water bottles. The UC police are simply the executive arm of the University in enforcing the policies at the student gate. The real question, as many above have pointed out, is what was the policy that you violated?

lol so u got kicked out for flipping off a cop? well just remember that a lot of cops are dicks. a lot can care less about your constitutional rights too. actually it sounds like a funny story, at least you didnt miss much and hopefully went down to frat row and got drunk all afternoon.

caldaehanmingook;841984915 said:

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The first incident, two seasons ago, was solely due to the .007 breath test. (remember legal limit for driving is .08, and even for under 21 is .010.) So when an officer decided to give me a field sobriety test on Saturday and claimed that I failed, I was terrified, knowing I would likely get kicked out again without cause. However, because I had turned 21, she suddenly changed her mind and decided to let me in. However, when walking away from the gate, and not in view of the officer who interrogated me, I briefly relieved some stress by pointing both middle fingers in the air. While this may not have been the smartest way of showing my emotions, it was not directed at anyone; it was simply a way for me to breathe a sigh of relief, and of course was within First Amendment rights. However, another UCPD officer who happened to be nearby and saw this gesture decided to forcibly put my arm behind my back, administer the .000 breath test, and, despite this, force me to leave the game. This despite the fact that I apologized numerous times to the officers, explained that I was under stress, and cooperated with their every request. The student conduct case resulting from this was dropped immediately, but my final Big Game experience as a student was ruined. Nothing more to say.

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Crap, I hate when I get held responsible for my actions like that.

You weren't butt chugging were you? That is one way to skirt the breatholizer.

http://bearinsider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=65237

I made it to two games this year--Nevada and the Big Game. For the first one I entered a gate at the north end and was surprised that I was only asked if I had any of the prohibited items in my backpack--no search of the backpack and certainly no body patdown. At the Big Game I entered at a gate at the southeast, where the sexes were split up and all were subjected to fairly thorough body patdowns. It seemed invasive and rather insulting. Is that new?

caldaehanmingook;841984915 said:

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While this may not have been the smartest way of showing my emotions, it was not directed at anyone; it was simply a way for me to breathe a sigh of relief, and of course was within First Amendment rights.

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Evidently you're not very familiar with this passage, so I'll copy it here for you:

Quote:

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Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

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The First Amendment protects your right to be an assho!e and the right to suffer the consequences like being barred from entering a stadium that you had no constitutionally-protected right to enter. Hope you enjoyed asserting those rights.

caldaehanmingook;841984915 said:

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I briefly relieved some stress by pointing both middle fingers in the air. While this may not have been the smartest way of showing my emotions, it was not directed at anyone; it was simply a way for me to breathe a sigh of relief, and of course was within First Amendment rights.

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Ridiculous.


You can get kicked out of the stadium for causing a ruckus, and it seems like you were a troublemaker who cant control his emotions to me.


This is not a civil rights issue.

BearyWhite;841985060 said:

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Evidently you're not very familiar with this passage, so I'll copy it here for you:
The First Amendment protects your right to be an assho!e and the right to suffer the consequences like being barred from entering a stadium that you had no constitutionally-protected right to enter. Hope you enjoyed asserting those rights.

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What Beary White said works for this lawyer.

Things are much tighter than in the past. I'm probably in the vast minority here, but I think it's too bad that students can't come to the game after having a couple of beers. Maybe i missed something, but were things that out of control that alcohol testing is necessary? If there are individuals that cross the line, nail them. I enjoyed the days when I was a student and we could carry in a case of beers and no one cared to check or stop us. Seems overboard to me to go through these types of checks - but I'm an old fogey and not a very PC one at that. What's next, drones hovering the stands to make sure there's no improper or illegal activities?

Totally sucks that they didn't let you in. Bastards. In 2003, I was entering through the student gate and a Berkeley Police Officer pulled me aside and searched me. I was sober, so after I blew, I was let in. After, I asked for the Officer's badge number and reported his behavior to his superior since he was unnecessarily an a$$#o!e during our interaction.

More importantly, you absolutely didn't miss a good performance by our guys. It was horrible. It was painful being in the stands. I wish they'd a searched me and not let me enter. This time around they'd a done me a favor.

ive learned a long time ago not to mess with cops. they can and many will abuse their power. whether you are in the right or wrong is irrelevant. it was just bad common sense.
ive witnessed cops do crazy things like beat the **** out of a guy for having an open container of alcohol.
ur actually probably lucky that the cop didnt make his day by pulling his baton out, kicking your ass and then saying that this drunk kid was being uncooperative and threatening so i had to hit him and defend myself

caldaehanmingook;841985123 said:

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@phantomfan I will define ruckus, according to the American Heritage Dictionary: "a disturbance, a commotion." While the UCPD officer's actions may fit this definition, mine, while admittedly an ethical mistake that I have learned from, do not, as no harm or conflict was intended. I did not attack anyone. And you, based on one message thread, assume I am a troublemaker, when in fact I have never once been in trouble with anyone, not even as much as a parking ticket, away from this one gate at this one stadium. And both of the cases have been dropped by Student Conduct because I did not commit any violation, so my record is completely clean. I was going the that stadium to support a team I have been a fan of since I was a toddler, and a cop came up to me and falsely accused me, without evidence, of being drunk. Have you ever cussed in your life when you were frustrated? It's not the best thing to do, and I do not do it often, but no one is perfect. You know nothing about me, and should refrain from making assumptions. Have you ever entered the stadium through the Student Gate, or do you have any idea of how students are treated there? @BearyWhite Is being detained and manhandled by a law enforcement officer for a gesture, even a gesture that you may not like, may disagree with, and is not polite or ethical, not abridging freedom of speech? If this were a simple security guard asking me to leave, the situation would be different, but this was a sworn law enforcement officer with police powers. I made an ethical error, but did not break the law.

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The part you seem to be missing is that these officers have more "power" than normal because you do not have a right to be in the stadium during the game. You bought a license to enter, premised upon behaving yourself according to the licensee's rules, not based upon constitutional rights. In other words, the officers were also security guards. You pissed them off and they decided to exercise their discretion to eject you. Them's the breaks. All of your gripes are misdirected to criticism of powers of detention/arrest, which simply don't apply in this situation. You may not have ever been "in trouble", but that does not mean you were not a trouble maker in this situation. Also, you don't have freedom of speech at a venue such as this, but you do have the freedom to remain ignorant of what freedom of speech truly means and continue through life with a sense of entitlement about when, where, and how you can express yourself. If you choose that path, expect to find yourself in more "trouble" and with more unsympathetic audiences to the "infringement" of your supposed rights.

Couched in the right terms, you acted immature and the officer was too quick to respond within his authority to eject you. I'm sorry that happened in both regards. Hopefully you, as an intelligent Cal student, will learn something far more valuable from it, that you must know your rights before you can assert they have been violated.

caldaehanmingook;841984994 said:

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@yoshibear -- I think the gate you entered through at Big Game is the Student Gate, as this entrance is located at the SE part of the stadium, on Stadium Rim Way. I attended many Cal games before I was a student, yet never recieved any pat-downs or other invasive treatment, only the innocent bag checks that are done at every stadium, until I became a student, bought student tickets, and was forced to enter through the Student Gate. If I am correct, you entered through the only gate where the treatment of fans is unusual. I would suggest not entering through this gate in the future.

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Actually, I first approached what was obviously the student gate, but the line was really long, nearly all students and moving slowly. I then went to the next gate toward the south, when I encountered the frisking. Do the people on the east side get patted down? By the way, I am almost 60 and was going with my 88 year old mother to her handicap seating area--not exactly a suspicious looking couple.

caldaehanmingook;841985123 said:

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Have you ever cussed in your life when you were frustrated? It's not the best thing to do, and I do not do it often, but no one is perfect. You know nothing about me, and should refrain from making assumptions. Have you ever entered the stadium through the Student Gate, or do you have any idea of how students are treated there? @BearyWhite Is being detained and manhandled by a law enforcement officer for a gesture, even a gesture that you may not like, may disagree with, and is not polite or ethical, not abridging freedom of speech? If this were a simple security guard asking me to leave, the situation would be different, but this was a sworn law enforcement officer with police powers. I made an ethical error, but did not break the law.

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The First Amendment doesn't give you absolute power to do whatever you wish. You might argue that giving the middle finger was just you expressing yourself, and you had a right to do that, but the officer also had the right to prevent you from entering the stadium. It doesn't apply exactly but I like this expression of a lawyer friend of mine -- "Your absolute right to swing your fist ends at my face." If you want to live your life indulging in and asserting your right to free speech you should do so, but prepare for difficulties. In this case you chose to enjoy your free speech over enjoying the game -- how'd that work out for you?

btw I agree that it sounds like a dick move on the part of the police, and I'm not justifying their actions, only discussing the 'free speech' aspect of your spirited defense

btw 2: I think some of the negative feedback you've received above stemmed from the way you unspooled your story. you started this thread to complain about a "no-drunks" policy being applied to people who weren't drunk, which seems like a valid complaint. A few people opined that there was probably more to the story, and you allowed that the second time you weren't actually banned for being drunk but for flipping off the cops. Can you see how not being told the real story might make people a little less sympathetic to your plight?

so you come on a message board supposedly to raise awareness to the issue and when you dont agree with their viewpoints, you say that the people are chastising you.

RTntheneck;841985141 said:

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The part you seem to be missing is that these officers have more "power" than normal because you do not have a right to be in the stadium during the game. You bought a license to enter, premised upon behaving yourself according to the licensee's rules, not based upon constitutional rights. In other words, the officers were also security guards. You pissed them off and they decided to exercise their discretion to eject you. Them's the breaks. All of your gripes are misdirected to criticism of powers of detention/arrest, which simply don't apply in this situation. You may not have ever been "in trouble", but that does not mean you were not a trouble maker in this situation. Also, you don't have freedom of speech at a venue such as this, but you do have the freedom to remain ignorant of what freedom of speech truly means and continue through life with a sense of entitlement about when, where, and how you can express yourself. If you choose that path, expect to find yourself in more "trouble" and with more unsympathetic audiences to the "infringement" of your supposed rights.

Couched in the right terms, you acted immature and the officer was too quick to respond within his authority to eject you. I'm sorry that happened in both regards. Hopefully you, as an intelligent Cal student, will learn something far more valuable from it, that you must know your rights before you can assert they have been violated.

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Good points. I'm not referring to the OP here, but it's amazing how many people totally misunderstand the First Amendment, thinking it means that anybody can say whatever they want, at a school, on the job, wherever, without any possible recriminations.

The UC & Berkeley PD are a joke - they constantly hassle the students and frats and yet allow drug/alcholol, public intoxication activity on Telegraph & at People's Park.

GoldenYears;841985609 said:

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How dare those people exercise their First Amendment rights!

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I'm never sure if people are joking when they write about First Amendment rights applying in private settings.

I think the most ridiculous thing Sarah Palin ever said -- yes, that's a high bar to clear -- was this: "If [the media] convince enough voters that that is negative campaigning, for me to call Barack Obama out on his associations then I don't know what the future of our country would be in terms of First Amendment rights and our ability to ask questions without fear of attacks by the mainstream media."

That's exactly what the Framers had in mind when they drafted the First Amendment -- protecting elected officials from the pesky media who insist on writing things about them. :rolleyes:

caldaehanmingook;841985641 said:

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@GoldenYears: Same to you as @gobears725. I quote from the terms of use of this site: "You agree not to...upload, post, e-mail, transmit or otherwise make available any User Content that is unlawful, harmful, threatening, abusive, harassing, defaming, vulgar, obscene, libelous, invasive of another's privacy or racially, ethnically or otherwise objectionable."

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Hey lawyers out there -- is it possible to libel and defame an anonymous Internet handle?

GoldenYears;841985650 said:

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I'm joking.

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phew, thank you

caldaehanmingook;841985662 said:

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I am just a student, not a lawyer, but what I quoted was just from the terms of use of this site, not from lawbooks. My best guess is that, like stadium regulations only apply inside the stadium, the terms of use of this site only apply to comments posted on it, and breaking them does not incur legal penalties, but only possible restrictions on the privilege of using these message boards.

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Come on man, make it stop, please.

No one is libeling your anonymous persona here. No one is getting banned from this message board.

Arguing over this is silly and a waste of your time and ours.

kid u sound like a good kid as im sure u are if u got into cal.dont let it ruin your experience at berkeley or enjoying the football program, especially if they get good again. enjoy it cause those years come and go very quickly. the officers are there for a reason, whether it be a good one or not. my advice just try to avoid the police. youll quickly learn that there are far many worse things unfair in this world than how security is done at a football game. if you are truly a cal fan since a toddler then although easy to say id boycott them now when they suck, im sure would be very difficult if a year from now our programs rebounds. dont let the actions of one individual officer mess that up

As someone who works in law enforcement, I'm not here to defend double middle fingers guy.

But enforcing a .08 rule seems arbitrary and unnecessary. I have come into games clearly over a .08...but so what? I wasn't a threat. I wasn't belligerent, I wasn't unable to control myself. .08 is the legal limit for driving a car. Since when do you need to operate heavy machinery at a football game.

If you get detained by a cop on the street, (4th amendment issues aside) I'm guessing someone who is .08 would never garner an arrest for 647f (drunk in public)...so why are they choosing .08 as the standard for a football game if you are over 21?

Seems wrong to me.